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Loved that photo of the old phone.

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Thanks for the photos Soho and Jared.

2nd and Walnut will soon be one of the cooler intersections in downtown.

Windows are currently going in on the south side of the hotel.

Last images of the Detox Center

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Aw - that last photo looks like a mother guarding her brood.....

From Sunday afternoon as well.
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Looking good. Thanks for the updated pic.

yep yep :)

This is going to be a great addition to the Deep Deuce/Bricktown area. I have stayed in one of the Aloft hotels before and it was a very good experience.

Well, it looks like we've been hit with the old 'bait and switch' routine again. According to the agenda for the Downtown Design Review Committee, they have submitted to replace the originally approved granite cladding with stucco. So much for quality and is it just me or does this seem to happen to a lot of the developments in this city?

Well, it looks like we've been hit with the old 'bait and switch' routine again. According to the agenda for the Downtown Design Review Committee, they have submitted to replace the originally approved granite cladding with stucco. So much for quality and is it just me or does this seem to happen to a lot of the developments in this city?

"bait and switch" happens a lot, but most developers go straight for the stucco right out of the gate.

I realize it does happen with a lot of developments, Legacy for a good example, but it is still frustrating that it is allowed to happen as much as it does.

Are you kidding me? What a joke.

Seriously. A joke. This has to be. They better deny that, this is a prime corner and a link between DD and BT.

This is just too funny...I was just thinking about this yesterday on how this was a quality development and how the granite set it apart from all the other developments. Now the developers are taking the cheap way out, what a disappointment. This goes back to what we discussed last week in developers taking pride in their developments, this is ridiculous. Like Bricktown establishing its name, Deep Deuce should be renamed Stuccotown.

No, faux stucco town.

This is very disappointing. It's one thing to propose it from the start, it's another to over promise and under deliver....

What happens if they deny the switch? Obviously, that's wishful thinking. But would the developers have to use granite then?

disappointing

I didn't expect this from them. Maybe I should have.

I'm sure they're looking at LEVEL and thinking....."If they can get away with it, why shouldn't we try?" And how does the DDRC even justify saying no, when they let LEVEL get away with it? I remember that we were told by the developer that LEVEL would be genuine stucco when the plans were unveiled. Interesting that the Deep Deuce apartments all had to have an all brick facade, that the Maywood Lofts and Brownstones were all brick and suddenly standards seem to have been lowered. Again, it looks ok (sort of) now, but I'm glad I won't be worrying about my investment 20 years from now when all that white "stucco" looks like trash.

And where do you think you'll be in 20 years that won't look like trash?

I was going to request the link, but I went ahead and looked it up:

http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/drc/agenda.pdf

relevant section:



6. CASES FOR INDIVIDUAL CONSIDERATION
A. DTCA-11-00044, at 209 N Walnut Ave by Jim Thompson for a revision to
the original Certificate of Approval to substitute the installation of an applied
textured stucco finish at all elevations for the previously approved granite on
building façades.



The full request is here:
http://www.okc.gov/planning/planning_library/drc/DTCA-11-00044.pdf

Starting with page 6, there's a detailed description of the various stucco finishes.
It would appear that they plan on using the 'Alumina' finish as it has a pseudo-granite like appearance.

Here's more on the Alumina finish:

BASF - Alumina Finish (http://www.senergy.basf.com/en/products/TexturedFinishes/SpecialtyFinishes/Pages/AluminFinish.aspx)

I've never seen this finish on a building myself, but it's hard to imagine that it would look anything near as nice as actual granite.

Here's more on the Alumina finish:

BASF - Alumina Finish (http://www.senergy.basf.com/en/products/TexturedFinishes/SpecialtyFinishes/Pages/AluminFinish.aspx)

I've never seen this finish on a building myself, but it's hard to imagine that it would look anything near as nice as actual granite.

We have some homes in our subdivision with a similar type of finish. It looks pretty good until ... dun dun dunnnn... cracks appear. It is impossible to cover the cracks without it looking like crap. People I know who own these homes wish they had never done it. Now one big difference might be if this is cast into panels and attached to the Aloft vs what is done here where the entire house is covered in one continous application.

And where do you think you'll be in 20 years that won't look like trash?

Hopefully not in a nursing home! But eventually I will live wherever I can get at least two of my four children together. That does not currently appear to be Oklahoma City. None of them want to come back. But, when you're living in Chicago and San Francisco OKC doesn't look all that appealing. Another son is about to go to business school in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia or .......Durham, NC. If he's anywhere but Durham next year, my chances of getting him back here evenutally are pretty low as well.

Now, I fully expect the Brownstones to continue to look great. When you've got concrete and rebar construction surrounded by brick and cast stone, with slate roofs and copper guttering, 20 years is nothing. It's just that the surrounding neighborhood will likely be starting to show its age, and not in a good way.

Now, I fully expect the Brownstones to continue to look great. When you've got concrete and rebar construction surrounded by brick and cast stone, with slate roofs and copper guttering, 20 years is nothing. It's just that the surrounding neighborhood will likely be starting to show its age, and not in a good way.

In 20 years they will still be 80 years from reaching their prime.

This discussion is lacking context and information. I'll try to provide more later today.

I'm very disappointed to hear that. I'm interested to hear what Steve has to add as well though.

Downtown Urban Design needs to DENY this, and more pressure needs to be put on all new developments going forward.

Downtown Urban Design needs to DENY this, and more pressure needs to be put on all new developments going forward.

I hope that's an option. But again, they should never have let LEVEL go forward with it's "stucco" facing if they wanted to keep standards high. I don't know how you turn a blind eye towards one and then say no to the next. I fear the desire to get "anything" built in Deep Deuce rather than having patience and holding developers to certain standards may have doomed it long term.

But perhaps Steve's context will be helpful.

If you notice, the level already has water stain marks showing under some of the windows. People got enamored with the "coolness" and dismissed concerns over the faux stucco and other construction issues. Let's not repeat the problems, please.

Level is The legacy with a flat roof.

No, faux stucco town.
Real Portland Cement Stucco is a pretty nice product, most of the stucco finishes in Austin are the real thing and not EIFS and looks better, longer than EIFS. EIFS is mostly crap as a fenestration product because the coatings are too thin to last. Still isn't a product like granite though, were solid granite panels what was originally specified? If so, I am surprised they didn't go with a honeycomb granite panel as a lower cost option, but then that may be the recourse if they deny stucco.


We have some homes in our subdivision with a similar type of finish. It looks pretty good until ... dun dun dunnnn... cracks appear. It is impossible to cover the cracks without it looking like crap. People I know who own these homes wish they had never done it. Now one big difference might be if this is cast into panels and attached to the Aloft vs what is done here where the entire house is covered in one continous application.
Is it Portland cement stucco or EIFS? Both require expansion/control joints but I have seen very few houses that have them because they require more labor and (especially) the big, national builders tend to do everything possible to make things as cheap as possible. I have no qualms specifying real PC stucco done according to standards but you have to make sure the installers do the job right.

Bluedog - I don't know what it is actually made out of. It has s finish texture like Coquina (which of course it isn't). Price-wise it was a very costly upgrade but the second I saw it I thought there is no way they could patch it if something happened to it.

This discussion is lacking context and information. I'll try to provide more later today.

It would be nice to hear some motivation for this. Is this just another "Oklahoma City isn't worth it" type move or is there a real feasibility issue like supply problems or engineering issue?

EIFS is a pretty broad term that encompasses som crap material and some material that is more durable. In the case of
Level they used a cement board and troweled a synthetic plaster over it. Probably roughly as durable as most exterior tile installations or as traditional plaster over brick (which I doubt happens much these days). The stuff that IMO is more concerning from a durability standpoint is the type that utilizes a styrofoam substrate (like Dryvit).

After watching it go up I'm not too concerned about the long-term durability of Level. The stains previously mentioned don't come from the material itself; they come from hardware that should have been stainless steel and is now rusting. Would have stained light-colored brick, white marble or other high-end materials too. I also found it curious that they installed raw steel balcony railings before priming and painting. Probably a contractor timing thing, but might lead to more of the same type stains.

But I really don't think you can fault the overall quality of that project's construction. The real question is how strict you want or need to be regarding the overall APPEARANCE of more inexpensive, bland and scalable (plaster, EIFS) vs high end and detail-focused (stone, brick, etc.).