Wow I sure hope not....


2013 you mean?

Obviously.

I have to say I am stoked to see this going up. I've worked in a few of the hotels downtown and outside of the skirvin and the colcord they are pretty bad. Not to say that every hotel downtown should be 4-star but it will be nice to have a little nicer presentation for visitors in future OKC finals and in general.

I always thought that the Hampton Inn was great. It's a great option for people like myself who are a little too thrifty for the Colcord, but willing to pay for better quality than Residence Inn Green Shed Roof - and now we'll have the Aloft as another excellent option for that.

Always check the Skirvin before you book too. One Thanksgiving I had visitors and was going to book the Hampton Inn for them, as they aren't big spenders. I decided to check the Skirvin and found, at least for that weekend, the rates were better than the Hampton Inn.

I have to say I am stoked to see this going up. I've worked in a few of the hotels downtown and outside of the skirvin and the colcord they are pretty bad. Not to say that every hotel downtown should be 4-star but it will be nice to have a little nicer presentation for visitors in future OKC finals and in general.

Renaissance/Sheraton?

Yes. Hampton is a downscale brand....towards the bottom of Hilton. We deserve and should support more upscale. Aloft will be nice and trendy, but still not considered upscale.

Yes. Hampton is a downscale brand....towards the bottom of Hilton. We deserve and should support more upscale. Aloft will be nice and trendy, but still not considered upscale.

The brand is downscale but the property itself is very nice for a Hampton.

The brand is downscale but the property itself is very nice for a Hampton.

It's not "downscale." It's at worst a mid-scale business hotel property.

Yes. Hampton is a downscale brand....towards the bottom of Hilton. We deserve and should support more upscale. Aloft will be nice and trendy, but still not considered upscale.

It might be down on the Hilton list, but Hilton doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the hotel scale. That is like saying the BMW 328i is downscale.

As of this morning, 3rd level looks completely done, 4th level should follow quickly, its seems like they picked up the pace, they are averaging a floor every couple weeks, should be topped out by October.

It might be down on the Hilton list, but Hilton doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the hotel scale. That is like saying the BMW 328i is downscale.

I don't feel like that is a good comparison. If you look at most hotel rating sites, Hamptons are 2.5 star at best. Alofts are generally 3 star. Hiltons can range from 3 to 4 star, but most of them are at the 3.5 range. Sheratons, Renaissances, and Marriotts are generally 3.5 to 4 star. OKC doesn't currently have a 4 star hotel.

If you look at comparable city like Columbus, they have a Hyatt, Sheraton, Westin, and a Renaissance all are 4 star hotels. For comparison, OKC's top rated one is the Skirvin and Waterford, both 3.5 stars.

With that said, Aloft Hotels and that specific Hampton Inn are not junky at all. There are plenty of Holiday Inns that are nicer than Hiltons I have been to. A lot of it is dependent. However, it remains that OKC does not have a full service 4-star hotel.

It might be down on the Hilton list, but Hilton doesn't go all the way to the bottom of the hotel scale. That is like saying the BMW 328i is downscale.

Hampton is a basic 2 star hotel by any objective measurement. It is a limited service hotel and considered on the lower end, period. Saying it is a BMW is like saying a Chevy is the same as a Caddilac because they are both made by GM. Hampton shouldn't be what downtown OKC aspires to have.

I don't feel like that is a good comparison. If you look at most hotel rating sites, Hamptons are 2.5 star at best. Alofts are generally 3 star. Hiltons can range from 3 to 4 star, but most of them are at the 3.5 range. Sheratons, Renaissances, and Marriotts are generally 3.5 to 4 star. OKC doesn't currently have a 4 star hotel.

If you look at comparable city like Columbus, they have a Hyatt, Sheraton, Westin, and a Renaissance all are 4 star hotels. For comparison, OKC's top rated one is the Skirvin and Waterford, both 3.5 stars.

Star ratings relate to hotel services, not quality. The Hampton Inn Bricktown is one of the nicest Hampton Inns in the country. It is not a full-service hotel, i.e. it doesn't offer a full-service restaurant, room service, etc., but it is very nice. I haven't seen its ratings on Trip Advisor lately, but my guess is it's hovering in four-star territory, based on guest satisfaction and quality perception.

I'm a bit of a hotel snob and I would have no problem staying in a hotel of Hampton Inn Bricktown's quality. Personally, I would rather eat in the restaurants within walking distance than dine in the hotel anyway.

Point: don't confuse hotel star ratings, which are based on services provided (valet, bellman, concierge, room service, etc.), with quality or guest satisfaction ratings.

For an inexpensive limited service hotel, Hampton is fine. But never confuse it for a quality hotel. It may be clean, it may be well run, but it is NOT a sophisticated urban hotel. It caters to those on a budget. While most large cities have Hamptons near downtown, they have a great deal more full service hotels with quality furnishings, central AC/Heating and other amenities. Hamptons should not be our goal. ALofts shouldn't be our goal. Having a Hyatt Regency, Four Seasons, Intercontinental, W, Omni, Ritz Carlton, or JW Marriott. These are brands that tell travelers and businessmen that we are a serious city to visit and do significant business in. Hampton is where the salespeople stay but the Four Seasons is where the CEOs and deal/decision makers stay. If we are seriously going to aspire to be a more urban and urbane city, we need to quit being satisfied with 2-3 star anything as our predominate or top level.

If we are seriously going to aspire to be a more urban and urbane city, we need to quit being satisfied with 2-3 star anything as our predominate or top level.

That is exactly what prompted me to get involved in the boulevard discussion. Excellent point Rover, this city has made enormous strides in a very short time. Since that progress has occurred so rapidly, it is taking some people a little time to expect and demand more from their city.

My personal preference is the CC hotel is an Omni. They seem so be connected to convention centers in several cities. The new one attached to the Dallas CC is supposedly exceptionally nice. I want to check it out next time I am there.

Regardless of the number of stars though, the Aloft is going to be a great fit in its location. I think it will do very well and it is an indication that OKC isn't completely disregarded as a "cool" place to be anymore.

I agree about the Aloft. It is in exactly the right location and is the right attitude for the neighborhood it is in. It is contemporary and fun, while still being affordable. It serves a definite niche which seems consistent with what is going on at Level and immediate area.

While I agree with Rover, I also agree that the Aloft will fit very well in Deep Deuce. Watching it go up too, it's very well built. I have heard it's going to have some for sale housing on the west side too, which is cool. It should add a nice vibe to Deep Deuce.

But, it is time the city seriously pursues some better hotels. It's great to have the Skirvin and the Colcord, but we need more hotels of that calibre. It's nice to have accomodations for people of all income levels, but great hotels can be enjoyed even by those not staying in them.

I think that is the point a lot of us are trying to make. Aloft is going to be a great fit for its location and we definitely can use more hotel rooms in our downtown core. It seems like a solid development that will definitely be a net plus for the city.

However, perception is commonly different than what we see. Our Hampton Inn is very nice, but the name Hampton Inn does not inspire the same confidence as Omni or Hyatt for those who don't take the extra minute to do the research. All top tier cities have a good mix of nice mid-level hotels like Courtyard, Residence, and Hampton, but also have some of the higher end ones as well.

It is not the Hampton name that is the problem - it accurately denotes the level of hotel it is. It is the fact that it is not the level of service we need downtown. When we stop focusing on hotels with laminate furniture, fluorescent lighting, through the wall air conditioners, sub standard beds and bedding, etc., and demand quality we will be better. Aloft does it better from a style perspective, and the operator of our Aloft does a really good job with their hotels. It will be a very good and appropriate addition. It will be better than Hampton, and definitely "cooler".

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7107/7701229490_5e344de1a6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701229490/)
Aloft Hotel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701229490/) by Matthew Bridges (http://www.flickr.com/people/mattbridgesokc/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8425/7701228902_8f2b045ba6.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701228902/)
Aloft Hotel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701228902/) by Matthew Bridges (http://www.flickr.com/people/mattbridgesokc/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/7701228280_7e1506d08d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701228280/)
Aloft Hotel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701228280/) by Matthew Bridges (http://www.flickr.com/people/mattbridgesokc/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8145/7701227868_e633a818b4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701227868/)
Aloft Hotel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701227868/) by Matthew Bridges (http://www.flickr.com/people/mattbridgesokc/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8153/7701227310_4a25b5ae41.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701227310/)
Aloft Hotel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701227310/) by Matthew Bridges (http://www.flickr.com/people/mattbridgesokc/), on Flickr
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8001/7701226938_5f533ffb22.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701226938/)
Deep Deuce (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbridgesokc/7701226938/) by Matthew Bridges (http://www.flickr.com/people/mattbridgesokc/), on Flickr

From this afternoon.

I'm sorry, but anyone turning their nose up at the Hampton Inn in Bricktown is loooosing points with me. If you can't recognize that that property is closer to the Skirvin, in terms of guest experience, than any other Hampton Inn say on Meridian or NW Expressway, then that just casts aspersions on other judgments. I also want to defend Pitman as one of Bricktown's model developers. If more people built tasteful, urban-styled properties to last like him, Bricktown would actually live up to expectations.

Believe it or not, but there are people who make less than $100,000 a year who want urban experiences. Sheesh. Some of you do bother me at times with your elitism. If I wanted that kind of money, and to be able to turn my nose up at the Bricktown Hampton Inn, I would not have gone into the design industry. I chose to trade income potential for the ability to make a difference in growing urban areas for you snobs to enjoy. I am sorry that you guys might end up with Section$800/mo housing for young people, but we promise not to be too disruptive to the upscale atmosphere that you and the bums previously enjoyed in Deep Deuce.

LOVE the photos catch22. Looks like they just installed the Spokies station this week??

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aloft8312.jpg

LOVE the photos catch22. Looks like they just installed the Spokies station this week??

Thanks! I don't remember seeing them the week before last, so the station must have been installed very recently.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8001/7701226938_5f533ffb22.jpg


LOVE this vantage point!

Deep Deuce is going to be amazing.

I'm sorry, but anyone turning their nose up at the Hampton Inn in Bricktown is loooosing points with me. If you can't recognize that that property is closer to the Skirvin, in terms of guest experience, than any other Hampton Inn say on Meridian or NW Expressway, then that just casts aspersions on other judgments. I also want to defend Pitman as one of Bricktown's model developers. If more people built tasteful, urban-styled properties to last like him, Bricktown would actually live up to expectations.

Believe it or not, but there are people who make less than $100,000 a year who want urban experiences. Sheesh. Some of you do bother me at times with your elitism. If I wanted that kind of money, and to be able to turn my nose up at the Bricktown Hampton Inn, I would not have gone into the design industry. I chose to trade income potential for the ability to make a difference in growing urban areas for you snobs to enjoy. I am sorry that you guys might end up with Section$800/mo housing for young people, but we promise not to be too disruptive to the upscale atmosphere that you and the bums previously enjoyed in Deep Deuce.

LOVE the photos catch22. Looks like they just installed the Spokies station this week??

Step down from the high horse. I think you get WAY too sensitive sometimes as the discussion wasn't a criticism of the Hampton, but rather an observation that to be a top notch city we need to attract higher level of hotels...from construction quality and amenities, to full services. Nobody is turning their noses up at the Hampton. That would be hypocritical of me as I stay there lots (am even a Platinum member of Hilton and made a nice living providing Hilton products, including to Hampton). In their category they are very good, and this OKC owner/operator is very good. Our Btown Hampton is nice (though skimped on certain things like the AC system - a pet peeve of mine). But, to equate the Hampton to the Skirvin is not rational. Certainly Hilton itself doesn't.

We also gave kudos to the Aloft. It is still mid catagory but more stylish and aimed squarely at the DD and Btown demographics. It was a very good choice of chains to put there and should be wildly successful. It is affordable fun and will be a great asset to the core.

And, I don't think it is snobbish to suggest we need more high profile hotels to attract business and other demographics of travelers. Calling names to those that try to take a balanced approach is not right. Calling us "snobs" for wanting to see a Hyatt Regency in downtown would be like me calling someone "trash" for wanting another Holiday Inn Express. There is an economic rationale for having both and to deny that is silly. There should be room for ALL socio economic classes for the proper "urban" experiences. Right now it seems like all we are able to get are mid level limited service hotels. There needs to be more balance and higher asperations, imho.

Step down from the high horse. I think you get WAY too sensitive sometimes as the discussion wasn't a criticism of the Hampton, but rather an observation that to be a top notch city we need to attract higher level of hotels...from construction quality and amenities, to full services. Nobody is turning their noses up at the Hampton. That would be hypocritical of me as I stay there lots (am even a Platinum member of Hilton and made a nice living providing Hilton products, including to Hampton). In their category they are very good, and this OKC owner/operator is very good. Our Btown Hampton is nice (though skimped on certain things like the AC system - a pet peeve of mine). But, to equate the Hampton to the Skirvin is not rational. Certainly Hilton itself doesn't.

We also gave kudos to the Aloft. It is still mid catagory but more stylish and aimed squarely at the DD and Btown demographics. It was a very good choice of chains to put there and should be wildly successful. It is affordable fun and will be a great asset to the core.

And, I don't think it is snobbish to suggest we need more high profile hotels to attract business and other demographics of travelers. Calling names to those that try to take a balanced approach is not right. Calling us "snobs" for wanting to see a Hyatt Regency in downtown would be like me calling someone "trash" for wanting another Holiday Inn Express. There is an economic rationale for having both and to deny that is silly. There should be room for ALL socio economic classes for the proper "urban" experiences. Right now it seems like all we are able to get are mid level limited service hotels. There needs to be more balance and higher asperations, imho.


this

I would expect that the sure-to-come convention hotel will be a little more upscale and certainly will have full services.

Given that we only had one downtown hotel for ages and the whole area is still in flux, it's a good thing to have some nice but not expensive options. As downtown evolves, we will certainly see more of all types of hotels as demand dictates.

There are other hotels in the works for Bricktown that are in the planning phases. Possibly a large upscale one in the works........

There are other hotels in the works for Bricktown that are in the planning phases. Possibly a large upscale one in the works........

Do tell more!

Step down from the high horse. I think you get WAY too sensitive sometimes as the discussion wasn't a criticism of the Hampton, but rather an observation that to be a top notch city we need to attract higher level of hotels...from construction quality and amenities, to full services. Nobody is turning their noses up at the Hampton. That would be hypocritical of me as I stay there lots (am even a Platinum member of Hilton and made a nice living providing Hilton products, including to Hampton). In their category they are very good, and this OKC owner/operator is very good. Our Btown Hampton is nice (though skimped on certain things like the AC system - a pet peeve of mine). But, to equate the Hampton to the Skirvin is not rational. Certainly Hilton itself doesn't.

We also gave kudos to the Aloft. It is still mid catagory but more stylish and aimed squarely at the DD and Btown demographics. It was a very good choice of chains to put there and should be wildly successful. It is affordable fun and will be a great asset to the core.

And, I don't think it is snobbish to suggest we need more high profile hotels to attract business and other demographics of travelers. Calling names to those that try to take a balanced approach is not right. Calling us "snobs" for wanting to see a Hyatt Regency in downtown would be like me calling someone "trash" for wanting another Holiday Inn Express. There is an economic rationale for having both and to deny that is silly. There should be room for ALL socio economic classes for the proper "urban" experiences. Right now it seems like all we are able to get are mid level limited service hotels. There needs to be more balance and higher asperations, imho.

This

SoonerLiberal: Last time I checked, OKC had three 4-Star hotels: Skirvin Hilton, Colcord, and Renaissance with Skirvin actually a 4.5 star obviously the highest in the state. You forgot, OKC has a Renaissance just like Columbus. You're right that OKC does have quite a few 3.5's (Marriotts, Sheraton). But I think people get too carried away with OKC not having this or that compared to other cities; therefore OKC is a lesser city this and that.

Speaking of CLS - Ive been there for business and I wasn't impressed at all (OKC looks/is far far better), and I stayed in their Hyatt; it is name only but truly probably a lower Sheraton imo. But I do agree with your point that OKC needs more upscale hotel brands instead of Renaissance/Marriott and Hilton being our best (for chains).

Step down from the high horse. I think you get WAY too sensitive sometimes as the discussion wasn't a criticism of the Hampton, but rather an observation that to be a top notch city we need to attract higher level of hotels...from construction quality and amenities, to full services. Nobody is turning their noses up at the Hampton. That would be hypocritical of me as I stay there lots (am even a Platinum member of Hilton and made a nice living providing Hilton products, including to Hampton). In their category they are very good, and this OKC owner/operator is very good. Our Btown Hampton is nice (though skimped on certain things like the AC system - a pet peeve of mine). But, to equate the Hampton to the Skirvin is not rational. Certainly Hilton itself doesn't.


We also gave kudos to the Aloft. It is still mid catagory but more stylish and aimed squarely at the DD and Btown demographics. It was a very good choice of chains to put there and should be wildly successful. It is affordable fun and will be a great asset to the core.

And, I don't think it is snobbish to suggest we need more high profile hotels to attract business and other demographics of travelers. Calling names to those that try to take a balanced approach is not right. Calling us "snobs" for wanting to see a Hyatt Regency in downtown would be like me calling someone "trash" for wanting another Holiday Inn Express. There is an economic rationale for having both and to deny that is silly. There should be room for ALL socio economic classes for the proper "urban" experiences. Right now it seems like all we are able to get are mid level limited service hotels. There needs to be more balance and higher asperations, imho.

I agree that we need some true upscale hotel brands. Not sure how we recruit W, Leows, Four Seasons, St. Regis, etc.

SoonerLiberal: Last time I checked, OKC had three 4-Star hotels: Skirvin Hilton, Colcord, and Renaissance with Skirvin actually a 4.5 star obviously the highest in the state. You forgot, OKC has a Renaissance just like Columbus. You're right that OKC does have quite a few 3.5's (Marriotts, Sheraton). But I think people get too carried away with OKC not having this or that compared to other cities; therefore OKC is a lesser city this and that.

Speaking of CLS - Ive been there for business and I wasn't impressed at all (OKC looks/is far far better), and I stayed in their Hyatt; it is name only but truly probably a lower Sheraton imo. But I do agree with your point that OKC needs more upscale hotel brands instead of Renaissance/Marriott and Hilton being our best (for chains).

CLS? You mean Columbus, OH didn't impress you?

I was just driving through Cbus last month and stopped for coffee to experience something downtown, and just driving through their downtown/campus/"Short North" area I was blown away... always heard a lot about how great Cbus was, now I get it. I need to check out the Germantown and all the other critically acclaimed areas.

Definitely the Midwestern Atx.

CLS? You mean Columbus, OH didn't impress you?

I was just driving through Cbus last month and stopped for coffee to experience something downtown, and just driving through their downtown/campus/"Short North" area I was blown away... always heard a lot about how great Cbus was, no I get it. I need to check out the Germantown and all the other critically acclaimed areas.

Definitely the Midwestern Atx.

I was in Columbus about a year ago and I agree with you. I would really like to go back.

I agree that we need some true upscale hotel brands. Not sure how we recruit W, Leows, Four Seasons, St. Regis, etc.

Maybe with hundreds of thousands more residents, robust business climate, better tourist attractions and a higher state income average.

While I agree that itd be nice to get more top notch hotels I just dont think its a reality right now. A new W, Hyatt or Four Seasons would cost a ton requiring $250/night type rates. I just dont see OKC supporting several hundred hotel rooms at that price. We have the Skirvin, Colcord and Renaissance and soon a new cool hotel in Aloft, Im not sure how we can expect much more right now. Maybe this changes with the new convention center.

what about the Waterford? Has it fallen from grace or is it still top notch? Cause before the skirvin and colcord it used to be up there with the best

Waterford has been so so for a decade or more. It is nice enough, but nothing special. Kind of like the Marriott across from Integris on NW Expressway. Both are too far from downtown to be players there.

Maybe with hundreds of thousands more residents, robust business climate, better tourist attractions and a higher state income average.

While I agree that itd be nice to get more top notch hotels I just dont think its a reality right now. A new W, Hyatt or Four Seasons would cost a ton requiring $250/night type rates. I just dont see OKC supporting several hundred hotel rooms at that price. We have the Skirvin, Colcord and Renaissance and soon a new cool hotel in Aloft, Im not sure how we can expect much more right now. Maybe this changes with the new convention center.

You're probably right, but what would constitute a "robust business climate?" It seems we have that going on already.

Also, my boss has to travel to OKC frequently to conduct business and he often tells me of all the downtown hotels being "booked solid." Skirvin often fetches close to $200 per night, so your $250/night scenario is not too far off base. Right now, we don't have any hotels that people would want to spend that kind of dough to stay in, but if it were a Four Seasons or W, one would surmise the brand itself would be a draw and they could fetch those rates.

There is room for a truly elite hotel downtown. What we have is not elite.

There is room for a truly elite hotel downtown. What we have is not elite.

I agree. Maybe I just get so beat-down to expect any and all downtown development (housing, businesses, restaurants, hotel, whatever) to be mid-scale. But let's be honest, the market for mid-scale things in downtown is enormous, whereas the market for truly elite things downtown is going to require someone to take a huge risk. It should pay off. But nobody wants to take that kind of risk.

Rover, maybe I should start poking and prodding you to jump on your upscale intuitions with that big ol HVAC fortune of yours (I kid, I kid..)

Trust me...I get my prodding in everytime I can.

I agree with OKC's appetitie for mid-level. But I also think even one elite hotel, along with Devon's elite office building will drive a whole new level of attention from developers with the money to bring retail and all the other things we want downtown. Just look down south to Austin.

I think the tipping point for downtown hotel development will be win the CC and CC Hotel are constructed, the CC Hotel will probably be top of the line, and more developers will follow to compete...

Agree with Walker,

As long as the already planned hotel for the convention center is the nicest Hotel in Oklahoma, I think we'll be right where we need to.

Yeah, if we're paying to build a damn hotel, might as well...

I think the tipping point for downtown hotel development will be win the CC and CC Hotel are constructed, the CC Hotel will probably be top of the line, and more developers will follow to compete...

Don't count on it.

Since this thread is supposed to be about the Aloft Hotel, I figured I'd update the progress.

Yesterday, the walls for the third level of hotel rooms started going up. This third level of rooms is on top of the 1/2 story entryway.

As the hotel is on higher ground to the East and goes downhill to the West, this new floor of the hotel will account for the 4th floor to the East and approx. the 5th floor on the West end. Going up quickly.

Also, the Native Roots location across the street in Level Urban is looking like it is in the final phase of the building (not decorative, but completed as to to air conditioning, plumbing, walls, etc.).

Very exciting time to live in Deep Deuce and see all the progress daily. (Luster House in Deep Deuce is getting a make-over as well)

Casey, is the Luster House the one by Central/NE3rd?

Doug Loudenback has lots of great info on the Luster house here: http://www.dougloudenback.com/maps/vintage_lusterhome.htm

I am really surprised about how quickly the ALOFT hotel is making progress. It seems that once that initial phase of steel or whatever was finished that the thing has been shooting up and fast. I'm still wondering if anyone knows anything regarding any easier way to access bricktown from the hotel besides walking over the Walnut/Mickey Mantle Drive bridge.

Also, technically isn't everything West of Walnut the Flat Iron District? and not Deep Deuce?

The official Deep Deuce district is shown in yellow below.

I don't think the Flatiron is a formally recognized district.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/deepdeucemap.jpg

alrighty - thanks. Anyone know how many restaurants will be going in the hotel? What kind? Whether the pool will be offering memberships like the Waterford does?

Aloft with have a two-level WXYZ bar, their own little dining facility, plus a coffee shop, a sundry shop and a restaurant space with patio that they will lease to an outside operator.

I haven't heard who might operate the restaurant.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1619&d=1337174537

sundry shop?

You know, those typical weird little convenience stores you always see in hotels that have snacks, toiletries, some gifts, etc.

Or, as I like to refer to them: fourthmeal.

If that's what you call $6 small bags of Kettle chips...

wow Pete! thank you for the link to Doug's blog about the Luster house. Very very cool, and considering it is what I see out my bedroom window, I have much more respect for the property.

http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/wschnitt/IMG_0589.jpg