Was listening to KTOK at lunch and heard that COPTA is cutting back the bus route 51 from Meridian to Downtown, while keeping $700K in the budget to maintain the existing river cruiser service. I don't get our City leaders sometimes. Bonehead decisions on our bus service for decades, even after they "learn" from past mistakes.

COTPA is more about providing lucrative service contracts to well-connected constituents than it is to delivering services to anyone.

"IF" the more elite citizens of this city/county depended on the Metro Bus, then they would be budgeting for Champagne and Caviar on every route.

I think the Mayor rode the Bus one day last year or two years ago...promoting "ridership."

This is nauseating.

COPTA (thread title) sounds cooler than COTPA (the real name of the agency).

Personally I don't see a problem with this funding. If you would research records, I would bet that the River Cruise Boats had more paying customers then the Route 51 Bus.

Personally I don't see a problem with this funding. If you would research records, I would bet that the River Cruise Boats had more paying customers then the Route 51 Bus.

I'd love to see that.

It's a tourist excursion boat. It is not transportation. To use transportation funding for it, particularly in a city with such poor bus service as OKC, is insulting.

It's a party boat for rich folks.

Personally I don't see a problem with this funding. If you would research records, I would bet that the River Cruise Boats had more paying customers then the Route 51 Bus.

Public transportation isn't about producing revenue. If it was, there'd be a for profit company in charge instead of a public trust.

Oklahoma River Cruisers: $155 Per Passenger | OKC Central (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/06/09/oklahoma-river-cruisers-155-per-passenger/)

Public transportation isn't about producing revenue. If it was, there'd be a for profit company in charge instead of a public trust.

Exactly, another reason to stop pouring money into it. It would be impossible for it to make a profit, but it should at least pay for itself.

I figured the river cruise item deserved its own thread, so I just started one.

This is what happens you have a city spread across +600 sq miles. Public transit shouldn't exist outside of an area bounded by I-240/I-44/I-35/Tinker Diagonal. Focus on the core and deliver a really good service. If you want mass transit then live in the core.

OKC needs to be build a city within a city.

Exactly, another reason to stop pouring money into it. It would be impossible for it to make a profit, but it should at least pay for itself.

Using this logic, let's stop building roads and highways too, as well as sidewalks. We can only build things that "pay for themselves," like our roads, right?

I find it hard to believe you worked in city government. Although, judging by some of the crackpot decisions made in this city over the years, it's possible you were in an important planning role.

This is what happens you have a city spread across +600 sq miles. Public transit shouldn't exist outside of an area bounded by I-240/I-44/I-35/Tinker Diagonal. Focus on the core and deliver a really good service. If you want mass transit then live in the core.

OKC needs to be build a city within a city.

This is an excellent point. Well done.

Originally Posted by Kerry
This is what happens you have a city spread across +600 sq miles. Public transit shouldn't exist outside of an area bounded by I-240/I-44/I-35/Tinker Diagonal. Focus on the core and deliver a really good service. If you want mass transit then live in the core.

OKC needs to be build a city within a city.

This is an excellent point. Well done.


I disagree that public transportation should not be provided outside a certain boundary, but I will say that outside of that certain boundary, most should only be available through Park-n-Rides. Riders can drive a few blocks and then ride the rest of the way. The actual ride would go far faster, too, when stops are greatly limited.

I really really strongly believe in what Kerry said, and I believe that it could be viewed as a compromise between the people that live out in triple digit streets and the inner city crowd that wants better services. I would also be interested in drawing lines and creating "tax districts" that administer taxes collected in their own community. There could be a district between I-240 and NW 63rd that could be the inner city tax collection district where a small portion of taxes are set aside just to benefit that area.

If the far suburbs were having to pay for their OWN massive street widening projects (every arterial between Memorial, 206th, Edmond line, and Portland is being widened) as well as new utilities then I imagine they would have a different outlook on the need for public improvement and city services. They take for granted that we will pay the cost for their sprawl but balk when we want better services for the heart of the city.

"IF" the more elite citizens of this city/county depended on the Metro Bus, then they would be budgeting for Champagne and Caviar on every route.

I think the Mayor rode the Bus one day last year or two years ago...promoting "ridership."

PF,
I was on that bus (Route 8) that day with Mayor Micky, it broke down, got another bus sent out to pick us up (that doesnt happen unless the Mayor was riding it), then that one broke down.
He and his staff and the "press" ( a writer and camera man), got in the car that was following the bus.
Thank god I didnt have to depend on going to work, or a doctors appointment, or all the other things people depend on the City bus service to meet their daily traveling needs.
One young lady told me she has to ride her "home bus", 2 hours before her job starts to get to her work.
Many are asked if they ride the bus service and its so ridden with delays and break downs that employers dont hire them on that basis.
OKC can do better.
Hopefully Devon and Chesapeake would purchase a CNG fleet for the bus service as a vote of confidence in CNG as a transportation fuel.

PF,
I was on that bus (Route 8) that day with Mayor Micky, it broke down, got another bus sent out to pick us up (that doesnt happen unless the Mayor was riding it), then that one broke down.
He and his staff and the "press" ( a writer and camera man), got in the car that was following the bus.
Thank god I didnt have to depend on going to work, or a doctors appointment, or all the other things people depend on the City bus service to meet their daily traveling needs.
One young lady told me she has to ride her "home bus", 2 hours before her job starts to get to her work.
Many are asked if they ride the bus service and its so ridden with delays and break downs that employers dont hire them on that basis.
OKC can do better.
Hopefully Devon and Chesapeake would purchase a CNG fleet for the bus service as a vote of confidence in CNG as a transportation fuel.

And it is obviously a higher priority to subsidize the river cruises that nobody goes on, at a cost of $155 per person. Public transit in this city is a sham. It's a travesty. With this revelation it's also corrupt. A lot of people are suffering because of this corruption.

In light of COTPA cutbacks, I am not sure I can support a continued subsidy. I would certainly hate to see the boats taken off the river and left to rot since they could probably be put back in in a couple of years, but public transportation is going to be more and more vital as gasoline goes back up in price.

I'm not going to foam at the mouth and call it corrupt, but I am not sure the COTPA priorities are straight.

I worked in Downtown Dallas for years, I always rode the light rail. This meant I had to travel "outward" to a station that went in to downtown. I did this because the cost of a round trip ticket was less than parking downtown all day. When I went to the fair I rode the buss - even though I lived less than 2 miles from the fairgrounds. On a normal day the buses ran at over 1500 stops every 15min. I am sure they paid "through-the-nose" for years before the ridership started to help pay for it. They had to establish a working system before people would ride it. Don't kid yourself, Dallas is looked-upon as a world-class city and economic engine because it has mass-transit that works. I can't tell you how many foreign visitors I met that would tell me that it was easier in Dallas than in most American Cities. Mass-transit pays for itself not by direct income, but by the massive economic spin-off of jobs, lower highway cost, etc. I use to ride the train to the zoo because it was easy and cost less than parking my car - not to mention safer. The train was packed with workers coming from the north side and downtown to their home - all of those cars off the road. The same was true on the north side. When it was put in, people fought it "tooth and nail" from coming to their part of town (light rail) Ridership was so heavy, that they are now fighting to get it extended to their side of town. At every train stop you can catch a bus - that also runs every 15-20min. until past mid-night. It is easy, you just have to have the will, the same type that made Okies think they could do it better than urban renewal.

Yes, and they only have one Cab company, that cherry picks the calls. Sometimes they (cab co.) wont even answer the incoming calls. I've cried and moaned for years about these sorry busses till I dont care anymore what they do.I really dont. I'm 47 now, and I dont see them doing anything about it in my lifetime.

Yes, and they only have one Cab company, that cherry picks the calls. Sometimes they (cab co.) wont even answer the incoming calls. I've cried and moaned for years about these sorry busses till I dont care anymore what they do.I really dont. I'm 47 now, and I dont see them doing anything about it in my lifetime.

Where does this only one cab company come from? The Council is of that opinion too (when they but a Norman cab company on probation for refusing to pick someone up). Just did a quick check of the phone book and I counted 7 taxi companies that looked like they were OKC addresses. Not counting those listed in surrounding areas and the limo type services.

Where does this only one cab company come from? The Council is of that opinion too (when they but a Norman cab company on probation for refusing to pick someone up). Just did a quick check of the phone book and I counted 7 taxi companies that looked like they were OKC addresses. Not counting those listed in surrounding areas and the limo type services.

Larry,
You may want to go deeper then the phone book.
A majority of them are either a storefront/phone number that is owned by the one cab company or is gone now.

It is easy, you just have to have the will, the same type that made Okies think they could do it better than urban renewal.

That's very true. What we did in the 60s and 70s during urban renewal was incredible and the public initiative was huge. Unfortunately it was incredibly misguided and frought with bad ideas that the city put a lot of money and a lot of gusto behind. If only we could get as gung ho about fixing this mess as we were about creating it, maybe then we'll be getting somewhere. It would be easy to fix transit and the city's other planning nightmares if we just had the will. Apparently we have the money..

...Public transit shouldn't exist outside of an area bounded by I-240/I-44/I-35/Tinker Diagonal...

While D.A.R.T. has its problems, the ridership is heavy... and now extends out to Plano with plans to go further on each of the several lines. It's just a matter of 'who' will run certain lines and 'how' exactly it will be funded, but there is no question a ton of people use it. Any time there is an event at the AA Center or I want to go downtown for dinner, my first thought is to drive to the Parker Rd. station and take the train. "It" (having a mass transit to and through the suburbs) can be done ! :).

When you take into account Dallas' sprawl all the way north to Denton along I-35 and Prosper along US 75..I guess Plano is sort of like the "I-240 point" in a way.

While D.A.R.T. has its problems, the ridership is heavy... and now extends out to Plano with plans to go further on each of the several lines. It's just a matter of 'who' will run certain lines and 'how' exactly it will be funded, but there is no question a ton of people use it. Any time there is an event at the AA Center or I want to go downtown for dinner, my first thought is to drive to the Parker Rd. station and take the train. "It" (having a mass transit to and through the suburbs) can be done ! :).

For mass transit to take hold in OKC the mind set of the populace has to change. The best way to do this is to start small and provide excellent service. Mass transit in OKC has a limitied budget and trying to spread it across 600 sq miles is doing nothing but making the service crappy. People are not going to abandond their cars to ride a crappy mass transit system.

The city would be much better served to concentrate resources in the core and as public perception and use changes, then expand the system.

Yeah, I used to work in Houston and my co-workers all took the bus to downtown from Katy. Their bus system is awesome! We need to take some notes from them.

Yeah, I used to work in Houston and my co-workers all took the bus to downtown from Katy. Their bus system is awesome! We need to take some notes from them.


Good Luck with that! You have to remember we are talking about COTPA here.

COTPA's route to the 7-11 across the street would be go backwards ten miles make a left, drive another ten miles and make another left then drive back down to the street you wanted to cross. Pass the 7-11 make a few right turns and finally make it to the 7-11 parking lot 3.5 hours later.

Oklahoma City Council avoids controversial cuts in latest budget | NewsOK.com (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-council-avoids-controversial-cuts-in-latest-budget/article/3468869?custom_click=headlines_widget)

Good news at least for now


...Among the most emotional moment of this year's budget discussions was at last week's council meeting, when bus riders, including several disabled city residents, pleaded with the council not to cut bus service.

A combination of grant funding and the increased sales tax revenue means most of the proposed cuts will be avoided. ...

Did they lose a boat in the flood monday?

I honestly am not comfortable with us (the City/COPTA) running "cruises" on the River.
That should be a private enterprise.


May Gene Rodenberry forgive me.

I honestly am not comfortable with us (the City/COPTA) running "cruises" on the River.
That should be a private enterprise.


May Gene Rodenberry forgive me.

I understand your point and don't really disagree but, technically, the city doesn't run the cruises. They subsidize them.