http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler010825a.jpg

While I personally would not want to live in Wheeler. It seems to be shaping up to be a pretty great district unto itself. It will be interesting to see how it impacts development around it over the next 15-20 years.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think what’s even more important is how it affects future development patterns throughout the metro. It’s a walkable community case study in one of the least-walkable cites in the U.S., and it’s too big to ignore. People who otherwise might’ve NIMBY-ed this type of development near them out of ignorance now have a compelling example within easy driving distance. In the past you basically had to get on an airplane to experience something similar, and Oklahomans are not particularly well-traveled.

While Wheeler is clearly meeting existing demand, I believe it is also creating demand that previously didn’t exist. See downtown Edmond as an example. Not too many years ago something similar - though much more modest - was proposed for the area around Fink Park and absolutely CRUSHED by NIMBYs. Now Edmond has a ton of activity in this sector. People from other parts of the metro and even the wider state visit Wheeler, and inevitably many are going to say “hey, why can’t we have something like this in ____________?”

THAT’S how we can begin converting parts of our obscene level of mindless sprawl into a city which also offers a slower, more pedestrian/kid/family/senior-friendly options for those who desire them. Creates a more well-rounded (and financially-sustainable) community for all of us.

Take a drive down Western to see how the apartments are changing the landscape. It is hard to tell from the marvelous drone shot how tall the apartments that are topped out are. And those are the smaller of the two units. They are working on the elevator shaft of the larger set up apartments now.

There's no way I would ever live in Wheeler either... just not interested in 200 ft2 per floor, limited garage, minimal yard... or whatever these "goofy" houses are. However, I don't understand why people would object about them being built, even next door to them.

There's no way I would ever live in Wheeler either... just not interested in 200 ft2 per floor, limited garage, minimal yard... or whatever these "goofy" houses are. However, I don't understand why people would object about them being built, even next door to them.

What exactly is "goofy" about them? People all over the U.S. have—for centuries—lived in homes with little/no setbacks, smaller footprint, multiple floors, etc. It was, until recent decades, the norm.

What exactly is "goofy" about them? People all over the U.S. have—for centuries—lived in homes with little/no setbacks, smaller footprint, multiple floors, etc. It was, until recent decades, the norm.

Exactly.

This is the type of comment one would read from someone who has probably never been to many of our cities on the Eastern seaboard or even in the Midwest.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler010825a.jpg

This is just incredible. I'm embarrassed that I was skeptical that this project would ever mass to this extent. The initial renderings were like something out of fantasy land when I first saw them. And yet, while a lot of the home design isn't my flavor of tea, the development is just a massive success.

And, one would imagine that the more it builds out the more demand will increase for people to be part of it.

What exactly is "goofy" about them? People all over the U.S. have—for centuries—lived in homes with little/no setbacks, smaller footprint, multiple floors, etc. It was, until recent decades, the norm.

Wheeler has always reminded me of Eastern Coastal towns. There is an area near Carolina Beach that looks pretty similar with bright pastel colors on all the houses. I loved how those neighborhoods looked so cohesive.

What exactly is "goofy" about them? People all over the U.S. have—for centuries—lived in homes with little/no setbacks, smaller footprint, multiple floors, etc. It was, until recent decades, the norm.

I put "goofy" in quotes, maybe not the right work, maybe more out of place in Oklahoma. I went to look inside a couple. They are really nice, but too vertical for me... reminds me of a certain proposed 1907' tower for downtown. Cool, but not for me.

I put "goofy" in quotes, maybe not the right work, maybe more out of place in Oklahoma. I went to look inside a couple. They are really nice, but too vertical for me... reminds me of a certain proposed 1907' tower for downtown. Cool, but not for me.

Which it's totally cool if you don't like it. But many Oklahomans have a bias against urban design just because they're not used to it and don't really understand it. They've never lived in a walkable neighborhood so they don't really understand why someone would want to. For me, I can't imagine ever living in some sprawled out neighborhood again because I'd lose so much. Anyway, if you're open minded, try staying in an AirBnB for a couple days in Wheeler, or a more developed urban neighborhood in a different city, where you can walk for most things and see how you like it.

Are there plans for commercial space, like a small grocery store? Would be nice for this area to have one.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think what’s even more important is how it affects future development patterns throughout the metro. It’s a walkable community case study in one of the least-walkable cites in the U.S., and it’s too big to ignore. People who otherwise might’ve NIMBY-ed this type of development near them out of ignorance now have a compelling example within easy driving distance. In the past you basically had to get on an airplane to experience something similar, and Oklahomans are not particularly well-traveled.

While Wheeler is clearly meeting existing demand, I believe it is also creating demand that previously didn’t exist. See downtown Edmond as an example. Not too many years ago something similar - though much more modest - was proposed for the area around Fink Park and absolutely CRUSHED by NIMBYs. Now Edmond has a ton of activity in this sector. People from other parts of the metro and even the wider state visit Wheeler, and inevitably many are going to say “hey, why can’t we have something like this in ____________?”

THAT’S how we can begin converting parts of our obscene level of mindless sprawl into a city which also offers a slower, more pedestrian/kid/family/senior-friendly options for those who desire them. Creates a more well-rounded (and financially-sustainable) community for all of us.

As the would-be co-developer of the referenced Fink Park project (18 on Park Place - circa 2014), I 100% agree with Urbanized's statement. The current attitude towards and understanding of walkable, mixed-use projects is much, much different than it was 10 years ago. When we proposed that small Edmond pocket neighborhood, there was absolutely nothing we could point to locally as an example of the level of quality and thoughtfulness it would embody. There was no way to combat the irresponsibly false statements and beliefs of the NIMBY crowd. What I would have given to been able to invite some of the NIMBY neighbors (if they'd even meet with me) to lunch at Taco Nation to show them an example. Local developers can do that now. Because of the places like the Wheeler District and Carlton Landing (thank you, Humphreys family), developers in Edmond like Matthew Myers (Switchgrass Capital) and others not only have the social license to build projects like The Lark, The Ember etc., but the City (staff and City Council) generally do what they can to make it a reality.

As a recent example of the follow-on effect, you have an Edmond builder like Scott McGregor who hired the master planning firm that designed the Wheeler District (Dover Kohl out of Denver) to create Liberty Park (https://libertyparkedmond.com/) in North Edmond. That 400+ acres would be another run of the mill Edmond cul-de-sac community otherwise. Almost more importantly, local lenders now examples they can show to their investment committees.

As a recent example of the follow-on effect, you have an Edmond builder like Scott McGregor who hired the master planning firm that designed the Wheeler District (Dover Kohl out of Denver) to create Liberty Park (https://libertyparkedmond.com/) in North Edmond. That 400+ acres would be another run of the mill Edmond cul-de-sac community otherwise. Almost more importantly, local lenders now examples they can show to their investment committees.

do you know the status of liberty park??

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think what’s even more important is how it affects future development patterns throughout the metro. It’s a walkable community case study in one of the least-walkable cites in the U.S., and it’s too big to ignore. People who otherwise might’ve NIMBY-ed this type of development near them out of ignorance now have a compelling example within easy driving distance. In the past you basically had to get on an airplane to experience something similar, and Oklahomans are not particularly well-traveled.

While Wheeler is clearly meeting existing demand, I believe it is also creating demand that previously didn’t exist. See downtown Edmond as an example. Not too many years ago something similar - though much more modest - was proposed for the area around Fink Park and absolutely CRUSHED by NIMBYs. Now Edmond has a ton of activity in this sector. People from other parts of the metro and even the wider state visit Wheeler, and inevitably many are going to say “hey, why can’t we have something like this in ____________?”

THAT’S how we can begin converting parts of our obscene level of mindless sprawl into a city which also offers a slower, more pedestrian/kid/family/senior-friendly options for those who desire them. Creates a more well-rounded (and financially-sustainable) community for all of us.

I completely agree Urban. I just wish Wheeler connected to the existing neighborhoods instead of creating what looks like a very large SPUD type 'gated community'. Wouldn't it be great of some of the build went a little bit west into the existing neighborhoods, creating a 'relatively' seamless urban fabric vs. the dramatic shift we can see at the property lines.. Not complaining, just pointing out constructive opportunity for hopefully many of these communities going forward.

I completely agree Urban. I just wish Wheeler connected to the existing neighborhoods instead of creating what looks like a very large SPUD type 'gated community'. Wouldn't it be great of some of the build went a little bit west into the existing neighborhoods, creating a 'relatively' seamless urban fabric vs. the dramatic shift we can see at the property lines.. Not complaining, just pointing out constructive opportunity for hopefully many of these communities going forward.

It does connect... but also, had they tried to do that, the protests of gentrification would have been much greater than they already are...

It does connect... but also, had they tried to do that, the protests of gentrification would have been much greater than they already are...

iirc it doesn't currently connect

It does connect... but also, had they tried to do that, the protests of gentrification would have been much greater than they already are...

It doesn't connect, unless you walk to the school via one small path. I wish it connected as well, but it doesn't make much sense consider the condition of the area to the west. There is a salvage yard and a well pump in some spots. You are asking for something that just doesn't make sense right now.

19409

The plan has always been to connect north of the school:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler081924b.jpg

do you know the status of liberty park??

I do not. The current interest rate environment is not supportive of large-scale residential land development (or most speculative development, for that matter).

The infrastructure to build SW 15th is literally happening right now. I live on 16th street and can see the progress out of my windows every day. As a resident, I personally cannot wait for 15th to be finished so I can access the neighborhood to the west more easily. I vote at Exchange Avenue Church and have to go out to Western, go to S 22, and wind my way back to the west (within a block of my house) and up to Penn and Exchange.

I do not. The current interest rate environment is not supportive of large-scale residential land development (or most speculative development, for that matter).

I mean, I'm not saying this is wrong, but it's a bit confusing. Current interest rates are relatively low by historical standards. The anomaly was the induced low interest rate period we experienced in the last decade. Interest rates are higher, but not "high" by historical standards at all, which begs the question, "How was stuff built back then when interest rates were even higher?"

I mean, I'm not saying this is wrong, but it's a bit confusing. Current interest rates are relatively low by historical standards. The anomaly was the induced low interest rate period we experienced in the last decade. Interest rates are higher, but not "high" by historical standards at all, which begs the question, "How was stuff built back then when interest rates were even higher?"

This is a good point. Currently, the Fed Funds rate is 4.5%, indicated by the red line.

You can see rates have rarely been below this mark in the last 70 years.

And the only sustained period (other than after WWII) was post-2008, after a near collapse of our entire banking industry and thus an extreme outlier.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/interestrates2025.jpg

This is a good point. Currently, the Fed Funds rate is 4.5%, indicated by the red line.

You can see rates have rarely been below this mark in the last 70 years.

And the only sustained period (other than after WWII) was post-2008, after a near collapse of our entire banking industry and thus an extreme outlier.

I don't want to minimize the effects of relatively higher interest rates and higher inflation, but, when viewed in a historical context, the last 20-25 years have actually been extreme in the other direction.

Of course, it's always a quick and drastic change that hurts the most. Interest rates and inflation of 5% isn't historically high, but after 10-15 years of little inflation and almost a 0% fed rate, it's a shock to the system.

I don't want to minimize the effects of relatively higher interest rates and higher inflation, but, when viewed in a historical context, the last 20-25 years have actually been extreme in the other direction.

Of course, it's always a quick and drastic change that hurts the most. Interest rates and inflation of 5% isn't historically high, but after 10-15 years of little inflation and almost a 0% fed rate, it's a shock to the system.

The shock was needed to quell inflation, which was caused by artificially low rates for too long.

There are good reasons rates have never been that low for that long.

I mean, I'm not saying this is wrong, but it's a bit confusing. Current interest rates are relatively low by historical standards. The anomaly was the induced low interest rate period we experienced in the last decade. Interest rates are higher, but not "high" by historical standards at all, which begs the question, "How was stuff built back then when interest rates were even higher?"

Purely speculative as I wasn't doing any real estate back then but interest rates aren't the only expense in building. Not sure of material costs back then but i know we have seen a huge jump in cost of materials over the last five years. Plywood got up to over $100 finished sheet for a while. I have an apartment complex with 100% occupancy in an rural area with enough extra land to build more units but with the cost of construction...can't justify it based on rental rates in that county. (We are the highest in town). With interest rates coming down...may start making sense. Rental rates determine whether is makes sense which is why Wheeler and some of the downtown stuff work but mid level or lower doesn't make sense right now without assistance.

"Construction Inflation History
Post Great Recession, 2011-2020, average inflation rates:

Nonresidential buildings inflation 10-year average (2011-2020) is 3.7%. In 2020 it dropped to 2.5%, but for the six years 2014-2019 it averaged 4.4%. In 2021 it jumped to 8%, the highest since 2006-2007. In 2022 it hit 12%, the highest since 1980-81.

Residential 8-year average inflation for 2013-2020 is 5.0%. In 2020 it was 4.5%. In 2021 it jumped to 14% and then in 2022 reached 15.7%. the highest on record."

source: https://edzarenski.com/category/inflation-indexing/#:~:text=Construction%20Inflation%20History&text=In%202021%20it%20jumped%20to,2013%2D2020%20is %205.0%25.

Purely speculative as I wasn't doing any real estate back then but interest rates aren't the only expense in building. Not sure of material costs back then but i know we have seen a huge jump in cost of materials over the last five years. Plywood got up to over $100 finished sheet for a while. I have an apartment complex with 100% occupancy in an rural area with enough extra land to build more units but with the cost of construction...can't justify it based on rental rates in that county. (We are the highest in town). With interest rates coming down...may start making sense. Rental rates determine whether is makes sense which is why Wheeler and some of the downtown stuff work but mid level or lower doesn't make sense right now without assistance.

"Construction Inflation History
Post Great Recession, 2011-2020, average inflation rates:

Nonresidential buildings inflation 10-year average (2011-2020) is 3.7%. In 2020 it dropped to 2.5%, but for the six years 2014-2019 it averaged 4.4%. In 2021 it jumped to 8%, the highest since 2006-2007. In 2022 it hit 12%, the highest since 1980-81.

Residential 8-year average inflation for 2013-2020 is 5.0%. In 2020 it was 4.5%. In 2021 it jumped to 14% and then in 2022 reached 15.7%. the highest on record."

source: https://edzarenski.com/category/inflation-indexing/#:~:text=Construction%20Inflation%20History&text=In%202021%20it%20jumped%20to,2013%2D2020%20is %205.0%25.

No doubt building costs are probably a big factor. Again, not really a function of interest rates.

We have seen somewhat of a cooling off on costs since the post-pandemic peak. But, the economy has not slowed down and we have a ton of things being built, which in itself will keep costs somewhat high.

But that doesn't stop people who know how to make money from investing.

The plan has always been to connect north of the school:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler081924b.jpg

will SW 15th connect it all the way to the lower end of scissortail park as well?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler010825a.jpg

what will the building on the lower right corner of this image be?
I've seen that it's already under construction.

what will the building on the lower right corner of this image be?
I've seen that it's already under construction.

Apartments.

Wheeler District posted a few days ago that they are officially starting on their Phase 3.

How far long are the apartments? I'd love to see some pictures of the progress from anyone in the area...

How far long are the apartments? I'd love to see some pictures of the progress from anyone in the area...

I could try to get some pictures soon. There are two apartment complexes in that southeast portion of the development. One of them, the smaller one, is completely framed out and interior work is beginning. The bigger complex, which is the one in the farthest southeast corner of the development, appears to have completed framing on the first level and so the rest of it should rise relatively quickly.

From the top:
1. Northern set of apartments (along Wheeler St) viewed from the northeast
2. Viewed from directly across Wheeler St to the east
3. Viewed of rear and parking lot from the southwest
4. Southern set of apartments viewed from the west along Hangar Dr
5. Viewed from the north along Wheeler St

Sticks just started going up on the southern portion last week I believe. Steel had been there for a couple weeks prior.

There's also a new two-story commercial building going in to the north of TacoNation. American Gothic pizza will take the ground floor space and I believe the rest is office. I'll upload the pictures of that project later!

https://i.imgur.com/oSYK9ga.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Akq3R0o.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/gMM1pry.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Nd3fZrV.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/Rqbm3M9.jpeg

Thank you for the photos!

Thank you for the photos!

You're welcome!

As promised here are some pictures of the new building to the north along Wheeler Street.

1. View from the southeast across the street
2. View from the east across the street (and standing in the middle of a field lol)
3. View from the west on Spoke Street
4. Interior renderings of American Gothic Pizza, which will occupy the first floor space on the corner
5. Exterior renderings (this and the interiors I just screen-grabbed from the permits)

https://i.imgur.com/AKwxVkI.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/O21Sz5b.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/KJVpSoz.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/7F6atKL.png

https://i.imgur.com/UngOKjx.png

Thanks for the photos! This section of Wheeler is getting close to be filled out. Really nice progress.