Just curious what this board considers "affordable' new housing. How much $ per foot should be the benchmark? With that, what amenities are expected?

Affordable is 3-4 times your take home pay. In OKC the median household income is $52,000 so what is affordable to the average household in OKC is $156,000 to $208,000.

There are 106 listings on Zillow in that range. Of those 18 are new construction ranging from 1100 to 1840 square feet.

In the core you can find flipped houses in that range with sub 1000 square feet.

If you want a pool you can purchase a condo in that price range.

That are the options for our average household.

Amenities are what would be desired by an individual. I was surprised how many apartments in LA don’t have A/C installed and told I could simply open a window. Don’t even think about in washer dryers and even parking in many cases being offered. That seems to almost be a luxury here.

There is high demand for walkable, mixed-use neighborhoods period. Too bad it takes large scale developer money and city incentives to get projects like this underway. We need more supply of these neighborhoods and the prices would likely come down. We subsidized the suburbs for decades (and still are).

could not have said this any better, especially the first point. :)

I'm mostly a lurker on this site, but as the attempted developer of the aforementioned 18 on Park Place near Fink Park in Edmond killed by NIMBYs and a vision-less City Council, it warms my heart to know that folks on here still remember our little project. The neighbors really just did not get it and were not even interested in understanding what a pocket neighborhood was, how it would be great housing for young professionals, single parents, downsizing parents, etc. Honestly, we couldn't even get them to meet with my partner and me. The community was different than what they had seen before and that was enough for them to want to kill it...nevermind that the sales prices psf would have been well above the average price of the homes in that neighborhood (but still within reach of a broad pool of buyers given the smaller home sizes of 1,400 - 2,200 sf).

Posting a few images here for posterity. Its been amazing to watch Blair and the rest of the team give the City a larger-scale taste of people-centered design.

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I'm mostly a lurker on this site, but as the attempted developer of the aforementioned 18 on Park Place near Fink Park in Edmond killed by NIMBYs and a vision-less City Council, it warms my heart to know that folks on here still remember our little project. The neighbors really just did not get it and were not even interested in understanding what a pocket neighborhood was, how it would be great housing for young professionals, single parents, downsizing parents, etc. Honestly, we couldn't even get them to meet with my partner and me. The community was different than what they had seen before and that was enough for them to want to kill it...nevermind that the sales prices psf would have been well above the average price of the homes in that neighborhood (but still within reach of a broad pool of buyers given the smaller home sizes of 1,400 - 2,200 sf).

Posting a few images here for posterity. Its been amazing to watch Blair and the rest of the team give the City a larger-scale taste of people-centered design.

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It would have been truly wonderful.

^
People have to come to grips with the fact if you want new construction, there is no way to make it affordable unless it's very small with almost no amenities.

Honest question: Are there still federal grants developers can apply for to include affordable units in developments? If so, what types of developments are typically eligible?

Honest question: Are there still federal grants developers can apply for to include affordable units in developments? If so, what types of developments are typically eligible?

Yes, and places like Page Woodson and 700 West have received such funding and have a small amount of income-qualified affordable units. Believe it's all done through HUD; favorable rates are provided to developers in exchange for specific parameters on a minimum number of units.

There are also federal programs for helping first-time homebuyers in certain areas at certain levels of income.

Honest question: Are there still federal grants developers can apply for to include affordable units in developments? If so, what types of developments are typically eligible?

Well they did get $80 something million in TIF money. Does that count?

Yes, and places like Page Woodson and 700 West have received such funding and have a small amount of income-qualified affordable units. Believe it's all done through HUD; favorable rates are provided to developers in exchange for specific parameters on a minimum number of units.

There are also federal programs for helping first-time homebuyers in certain areas at certain levels of income.

Page Woodson is only partially income-qualified affordable units? For some reason I thought it was entirely that.

Page Woodson is only partially income-qualified affordable units? For some reason I thought it was entirely that.

Nope, the large majority of that complex is "market rate".

Things really starting to come together now. Looks super cool in person.

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Fantastic progress pics. Taco Nation was at the Brewery yesterday and it looked like a big hit once again.

Also looking forward to browsing through the intensely hateful comments the other OKCTalk social media posts will inevitably get hit by LOL.

^

Yeah, last time there was tons of hate which was weird, but my guess is now a lot of that has been vented and there won't be so much backlash.

Wheeler continues to sell and sell and if it's not for you, tons of other more traditional choices all over town. But I love the fact this is a completely different option available.

As someone recently posted, this development is going to be the envy of a lot of other cities.

So much love for this development!

I hope they continue to add color to the homes like the ones immediately south of the office building.

Looks really sharp in person.

^

Yeah, last time there was tons of hate which was weird, but my guess is now a lot of that has been vented and there won't be so much backlash.

Wheeler continues to sell and sell and if it's not for you, tons of other more traditional choices all over town. But I love the fact this is a completely different option available.

As someone recently posted, this development is going to be the envy of a lot of other cities.

Speaking of other cities. Last year officials from other cities were going to tour Wheeler as part of some urban project innovation ideas or whatever. Then covid hit and I don't remember hearing anything else. Did the tours end up happening?

Speaking of other cities. Last year officials from other cities were going to tour Wheeler as part of some urban project innovation ideas or whatever. Then covid hit and I don't remember hearing anything else. Did the tours end up happening?

The Congress for the New Urbanism. The conference will be virtual again this year and then in OKC in 2022.

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These photos are amazing! They really capture how this development is coming together! Yeah I don't get all the hate with this project at all. Did I read that the highly acclaimed restaurant None Such was moving to the Wheeler District?

So, it looks like the condos are going where the paved area south of the office building is. Then the home expansion will be further to the west and south.

I saw Wheeler respond to Steve on Twitter today that the old helipad building (to the far left of the first pic above) was vacated last month and Wheeler has moved in currently using it for offices and construction staging, but no long term set plans for the building.

^

The condos will be directly west of the office building and have yet to start. To the south and east of the adjacent parking lot are free-standing townhouse-like structures.

The helipad is actually out of frame and to the north, just off Western near the Ferris wheel. Wheeler worked our a land-swap deal with the city to gain ownership of that property.

Lots of building permits applied for Wheeler:

Wheeler Construction LLC, 1913 Runway Blvd., residence, erect, $675,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1912 Runway Blvd., residence, erect, $650,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1920 Runway Blvd., residence, erect, $600,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1700 Pioneer, residence, erect, $470,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1908 Runway Blvd., residence, erect, $460,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1702 Pioneer, residence, erect, $400,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1841 Pioneer, residence, erect, $350,000.
Wheeler Construction LLC, 1825 Pioneer, residence, erect, $350,000.

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The assessor's GIS map now has the updated plat.

Now that this development is really starting to come together, it's reminding me somewhat of the Lowry neighborhood in Denver (which itself was built on a decommissioned Air Force Base)

exactly, or moreso the stapleton neighbourhood in E Denver on the former Stapleton International Airport grounds.

Anyone been to Carlton Landing lately? Very similar development next to Lake Eufaula and master developed by Humphreys. It’s really turning into a gem and keeps expanding. They have nailed the details and the location is beautiful. Only 2 hours from OKC and 1.5 hours from Tulsa.

Aside from the urbanist stuff I've heard here, have only ever heard about sewage scandals there. No idea what that's all about though.

Aside from the urbanist stuff I've heard here, have only ever heard about sewage scandals there. No idea what that's all about though.

You mean at carlton landing not wheeler right?

Yeah the sewage scandals are at Carlton Landing. Something about unlawful dumping into Lake Eufaula (I forget the exact details).

Yeah the sewage scandals are at Carlton Landing. Something about unlawful dumping into Lake Eufaula (I forget the exact details).

I can't remember the exact details, but either the lagoon was undersized or the piping to the lagoon was malfunctioning. I thought they corrected the issue. Do you know if it it still an issue?

I can't remember the exact details, but either the lagoon was undersized or the piping to the lagoon was malfunctioning. I thought they corrected the issue. Do you know if it it still an issue?

Not sure about that. But they have built a beautiful town.

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The live/work spaces are pretty much fully occupied with several types of businesses. In the back, they have a carport with a deck above for the living units.

This project is really starting to come together.

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thanks for the great pics pete

The whole development is now to the point where you can go and grab some pizza at Terminal Commons, have a beer at Big Friendly and have a nice little stroll around the area.

I know much more is coming but it's a completely unique setting in OKC and enough there to draw in visitors.

Wow! You actually see it coming together in these pics! Fantastic job Wheeler!

We swung by after lunch at San Pedros Saturday for the first time in awhile, and we were blown away by how far along they are (pictures don't really do it justice). We stopped at the Big Friendly for a drink, and you can already feel that this will be such a unique destination. Excited to see this continue to grow.

Thanks for the pictures, Pete. I worked outside at Terminal Commons a month ago and loved the area. It’s really a great spot to hang out now.

The live/work spaces are pretty much fully occupied with several types of businesses. In the back, they have a carport with a deck above for the living units.

This project is really starting to come together.

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They sure didn't let the pandemic slow them down, by all appearances.

I can't help but wonder if they have already build more living space on a per family and per sq feet basis than has ever been built at The Hill.

They sure didn't let the pandemic slow them down, by all appearances.

I can't help but wonder if they have already build more living space on a per family and per sq feet basis than has ever been built at The Hill.

Burn.

Not too many people in these photos for such a beautiful day.

Most of the photos are of a construction site. Where are supposed to be? playing in the dirt?

I’m assuming these photos were also taken in the middle of a weekday, in an area that is primarily residential. Not exactly a prime time for things to be bustling.

Most of the photos are of a construction site. Where are supposed to be? playing in the dirt?

Um, no. The Terminal Commons and Big Friendly are complete and are the only spots in the district with commercial offerings. I would expect more activity at those businesses even during the week. The Terminal Commons advertises weekday breakfast and lunch offerings on Instagram all the time. With many folks still working remotely, I would also expect a bit more foot traffic during the day. Wheeler will be under construction for awhile and businesses will not survive there if it is just a residential enclave or weekend-only destination.

Um, no. The Terminal Commons and Big Friendly are complete and are the only spots in the district with commercial offerings. I would expect more activity at those businesses even during the week. The Terminal Commons advertises weekday breakfast and lunch offerings on Instagram all the time. With many folks still working remotely, I would also expect a bit more foot traffic during the day. Wheeler will be under construction for awhile and businesses will not survive there if it is just a residential enclave or weekend-only destination.

Have you ever been to Fassler Hall during a weekday? It's dead and they don't seem to be struggling.

Breakfast isn't going strong from 7AM to 10AM followed immediately by a 80% capacity lunch from 10AM to 6PM. Eating establishments that are open all day have several multi-hour dead periods where it's not unreasonable to get less than 5 patrons come through in an hour.

Reading into a picture to determine the viability of a business is silly.

Photos were taken 11 AM last Thursday.

Kids are in school, people are at work.

Photos were taken 11 AM last Thursday.

Kids are in school, people are at work.

This does make me think - it would be cool if the photos had a small time-stamp on them somewhere. Not sure if your equipment makes that easy - but if it's a simple settings adjustment, I'd make a motion to turn that on!

This does make me think - it would be cool if the photos had a small time-stamp on them somewhere. Not sure if your equipment makes that easy - but if it's a simple settings adjustment, I'd make a motion to turn that on!

On Windows: you can download the photos to your desktop, and use windows explorer.

1) Right click the photo
2) select “Properties”
3) select the “Details” tab

Not sure about the process in MacOS. Guess it is easy, though.

A photo is just a "snapshot" of a moment in time, but I would still expect more and it is an indicator of how the businesses are being patronized. Kind of like almost every time I see a streetcar at varying hours of the day it is empty or nearly empty. I live in Guthrie and the downtown's busiest time of the week is probably 11:00 AM on a Thursday...people going to the bank, lunch, post office, stores, office appointments, coffee shops. Hopefully Wheeler will become a true mixed use functioning neighborhood and not a residential enclave or weekend entertainment district.

^ I get your point, but there are what 80-90 houses finished, how many of those are moved-in? Statistically no one lives here yet compared to the full build out.

^ I get your point, but there are what 80-90 houses finished, how many of those are moved-in? Statistically no one lives here yet compared to the full build out.

Fair enough. They haven't reached critical mass.

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I had recently gone back and looked at the drawings in post #1 in this thread and was reminded that all the green grass you see in this photo south of the river is essentially going to be built upon. I had completely forgotten that they had the land east of Western also. That makes it all more impressive.


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In a related note, I recently spoke with someone that was working on the roundabout they're trying to get put in on Western -- which I had also forgotten about -- that is also referenced in the drawings in post #1.

After nearly 7 months of waiting, my husband and I closed on our new cottage in the Wheeler District last Friday. I have already met more of my neighbors here than I have met in all of my previous neighborhoods combined. We feel very fortunate to have bought in when we did and look forward to all of the development to come.

After nearly 7 months of waiting, my husband and I closed on our new cottage in the Wheeler District last Friday. I have already met more of my neighbors here than I have met in all of my previous neighborhoods combined. We feel very fortunate to have bought in when we did and look forward to all of the development to come.

Wow, congrats!

Please keep us posted on your new life in Wheeler.

Congratulations!!!

Thanks Pete. I love my floor plan and all of the fixtures. They are planning 7 more cottages facing ours across Pedalers Lane which should make for a nice community within the community. We are calling ourselves the cottage people.

Congrats, CCOKC! I love those cottages. I walk by them almost every day. When the seven across from you get built, that’s going to be a really nice addition to Pedaler’s Lane.

Thanks king183. After the rain last night we have the Wheeler Lake outside of our cottage.

Toured parts of of Wheeler with ULI tonight. Couple of the business buildings on Spoke Street. Two houses, and the large commercial building with the round roof. Just posting a few pics of the commercial building as I'm pretty sure that'll be the only thing new to post here. Might have been known/posted already, but we learned that the entire building has been bought by Humphrey Capital, but that they are taking only the top floor, while the other floors will be leased to other business. The pictures here are either of or from the top floor.

External view
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When you first walk in
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Miscellaneous interior 3rd floor shots (not sure why some of these rotated)
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3rd floor, looking west, you can see the condo prep site
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3rd floor, looking south
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3rd floor, looking east (you can see the Robinson grain silo)
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3rd floor, looking north, view of downtown and the wheel
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Another view north, of "downtown Wheeler" as I heard it called
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Notes I took:
-75 homes built/sold, 40 homes under construction
-Site is ~150 acres, 96 west of Western, the rest east
-Phase One was ~15 acres
-They're up to 9 ADUs in the district with more coming as more people want them (if you can't afford it up front contractor will stub out for it and you can build it out later)
-Two four-plexes are about to get built on the far north end of Spoke Street
-The park and pool (eastern part of the site) will be built during phase two, pool is members only, park is open to public
-HOA fees are $50-250 depending on property size
-AirBnBs are allowed with no restrictions if it's your primary home, if it's not your primary home there is a 90-day limit (I think that meant consecutive days), this was modeled on how San Francisco is doing it, there are 4 homes being used in this way, and they are pretty much always occupied.

Not sure how to delete the below attachment that has my thumb in it.

^

Thanks shawn!

That development is really coming together and seems to be rapidly picking up pace.