https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/928-sw-17th-200-2/

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Just saw Wheeler posted four condos going for $350~373 per sqft.

Just curious why the condos are more expensive per square foot than single family?

Just curious why the condos are more expensive per square foot than single family?

Construction costs? Because they think they can? Both?

Just curious why the condos are more expensive per square foot than single family?

Of course every building is different, but if built in a quality way, construction costs can be a fair amount higher as you add floors. Things like soundproofing, hvac systems, the way plumbing and sewer have to be done, etc. It's more complicated than throwing up a tract house.

Of course every building is different, but if built in a quality way, construction costs can be a fair amount higher as you add floors. Things like soundproofing, hvac systems, the way plumbing and sewer have to be done, etc. It's more complicated than throwing up a tract house.

plus elevator, legal fees to write a condo, etc

Just curious why the condos are more expensive per square foot than single family?

If I remember correctly the condos will have an elevator and the entire floorplan for each unit is on one floor.

I ask because in general condos are less expensive to own than single family as they share wall materials, smaller footprint, and are more risky investments. The price seems steep to me.

I ask because in general condos are less expensive to own than single family as they share wall materials, smaller footprint, and are more risky investments. The price seems steep to me.
They may share a wall, but if built right those shared walls are different in that they need to be fire stopped and sound proofed.

The thing I like about Wheeler the most is that it is happening. It is the best downtown development happening right now. What is it's competition? Strawberry Fields? Core to Shore? Hubcap Alley? Cotton seed mill? Boathouse District?

^

700 West, Boulevard Place, 4th & EK Gaylord, Convention Center, Omni Hotel, Villa Teresa, BancFirst Tower, Marriott Renaissance, The Boulevard, First National Center, Chrysler Plymouth Building and a bunch more.

^

700 West, Boulevard Place, 4th & EK Gaylord, Convention Center, Omni Hotel, Villa Teresa, BancFirst Tower, Marriott Renaissance, The Boulevard, First National Center, Chrysler Plymouth Building and a bunch more.

You are correct as usual. I was thinking more along the lines of new for sale units. Of those listed I believe Villa Teresa has
Townhomes. There are those townhomes in Sosa. But of those three spots Wheeler wins out on quantity of for sale units, and competes in quality.

Are there other for sale properties in construction right now?

The Bower just finished.

The Bower just finished.

There’s a development in SOSA that has its second phase well underway nearing completion.

The Bower just finished.

IIRC, the Bower has sold one unit... I've heard they're nice units though.

I would love to buy one of these houses in Wheeler. I personally love them. But, with my job going bye bye and now that we are empty nesters it's downsize time for us, price AND size. lol. So, no Wheeler District for me, but I think they are awesome. I've spent the last 8 years living in a heavily tree-lined hood and given the leaves situation in the fall, I am all about the no trees look. Ha!

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Beginnings of foundation work of the new bi-lingual elementary school in the Wheeler District.

Last month after some of the backlash on Twitter, Wheeler tweeted this:

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The next bit of info they release is this rendering on their @wheelehome Instagram account.

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wheelerhomeokc
Coming soon to Wheeler!

For those looking to elevate your style of living to a high-end, one-story, elevator-accessed condo experience with a private garage, expansive veranda and unmatched views, we have the perfect option for you - our brand new Luxury Flats! Enjoy life in the heart of the city from one of four luxury condos surrounded by all the perks of a new urbanist neighborhood. Designed by London-based architecture firm Allford Hall Monaghan Morris, these custom designed penthouse and second story flats offer high-end finish outs and thoughtful maximized layouts.

The light and bright open plans feature a contemporary color palette, soaring ceilings, expansive windows with unobstructed views, natural hardwood floors, geothermal heating and cooling, and luxury finishes. Highlighted spaces include an oversized living area, chef’s kitchen with quartz island, custom cabinets, upgraded appliances, and a large covered veranda with glass openings. Featured amenities include elevator access, private 2-car garages, fenced green space, and close proximity to Wheeler District’s pool, park, and retail/restaurant spaces.

Click the link in bio or email home@wheelerdsitrict.com for more information!

I don't think this helps in their attempts to comfort most of the concerns that people had. Seems like an odd time to announce it, especially considering they just talked about releasing more info about who, what, and why they are.

I think there is a market for affordable housing in Wheeler. I bet you could build an apartment style building with an upgraded exterior and they would sell. Maybe even do a presale and not build it until 75% plus of the flats are reserved.

Last month after some of the backlash on Twitter, Wheeler tweeted this:

16535

The next bit of info they release is this rendering on their @wheelehome Instagram account.

16536



I don't think this helps in their attempts to comfort most of the concerns that people had. Seems like an odd time to announce it, especially considering they just talked about releasing more info about who, what, and why they are.
What was the backlash about?

Also see a bunch of photos of The Big Friendly brewery and taproom (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=45086&page=2&p=1145486#post1145486).

2nd to last photo is the school:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110820.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110820a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110820b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110820c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110820d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110820e.jpg

Sorry if this has been mentioned here before but will they integrate with the neighborhood directly to the west by tying into the street grid or will this development be cut off? I hope it’s the former.

Sorry if this has been mentioned here before but will they integrate with the neighborhood directly to the west by tying into the street grid or will this development be cut off? I hope it’s the former.

from what i understand, it will be connected. check out post 2044 in this thread for a pic of the master plan.

“ Ashley Terry, vice president of development at Wheeler and head of the charter school application committee for Western Gateway, said the two neighborhoods will ultimately be connected at SW 15, SW 17, and SW 18 with infrastructure to be funded through the TIF district. “

https://www.google.com/amp/s/oklahoman.com/article/5666605/new-school-could-bridge-gap-between-south-okc-neighborhoods/amp

I am very happy it will connect. I was worried for a minute they were going to segregate it from the other neighborhood.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler122020a.jpg

the growth is really cool to see from this angle it will be cool to see it continue over the years

This aerial from December indicates the future street grid:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler010920a.jpg

I drove through here the other day. The neighborhood looks like something straight out of a hallmark movie. Super awesome to see a planned community like this. I am glad people are buying them.

hopefully this will be hugely successful and we can see more of them in the city, smaller scale though. This is what SPUDs should be imo not the current implementation found throughout the city ....

From their Instagram page; these units are well under construction directly south of the new barrel-roofed office building. According to Zillow, they are listed around $420K.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler011921a.jpg


THE TERRACE HOMES - Six detached residences, inspired by Scandinavian row homes, have incredible views of downtown Oklahoma City. On the second story, a 180 square foot covered terrace and sliding glass wall off of the living room create the ultimate space for indoor/outdoor living. They each have 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, and 2-car garages.

Finally! That is what I've been trying to find in OKC. Too bad I'm not going to be living in Oklahoma much longer.

Finally! That is what I've been trying to find in OKC. Too bad I'm not going to be living in Oklahoma much longer.

Why aren't you going to be living in Oklahoma?

Just saw on the Wheeler Home Instagram account that all 6 of their terrace homes have sold. It’s great that a new urbanism development has taken off in OKC.

I have to wonder, is it typical to for people to pay ~$430K for a 3b3ba new construction home in other desirable areas of OKC? Or is this simply a niche market that has been wildly successful?

No it is not typical. These are pretty steep

Seems like the more Richard complains about the houses being overpriced, the faster they sell.

Seems like the more Richard complains about the houses being overpriced, the faster they sell.

They definitely overpriced, though. There’s only a few areas of OKC where $250+/square is justified, and Wheeler ain’t one of them.

A quick Zillow search of all current active/comparable new construction properties within close proximity to downtown OKC shows supply is very constrained. All signs show that homes in Wheeler are moving fast. The timing is almost perfect. What’s happening there is very impressive. With the addition of a brand new elementary school opening in the fall, retail shops coming online, big friendly brewery, terminal commons, commercial offices, and a wide diversity of housing types, Wheeler is in prime position for sustained long term growth. It seems to have already passed the tipping point months ago.

A quick Zillow search of all current active/comparable new construction properties within close proximity to downtown OKC shows supply is very constrained. All signs show that homes in Wheeler are moving fast. The timing is almost perfect. What’s happening there is very impressive. With the addition of a brand new elementary school opening in the fall, retail shops coming online, big friendly brewery, terminal commons, commercial offices, and a wide diversity of housing types, Wheeler is in prime position for sustained long term growth. It seems to have already passed the tipping point months ago.

It really is impressive. Some people had their doubts, but it seems it is slowly coming together.

We can all critical, but I am glad we have a group willing to take on a project like this in okc.

They definitely overpriced, though. There’s only a few areas of OKC where $250+/square is justified, and Wheeler ain’t one of them.
And yet the market says otherwise.

I'm happy for them, truly. Blair has worked his arse off on this for many years and his intentions come from a very good place.

I look forward to spending time there (brewery, other things that will follow) but living there is just not for me, at least at this stage of my life. But I can certainly see the appeal and the home finishes are pretty beautiful.

And yet the market says otherwise.

Exactly. It's become hilarious to me how some just have a personal issue with this development--whether it's a difference in taste, style, politics, hatred of the Humphreys, etc.--and so they translate that personal issue into judgments like "overpriced," despite what the data show. Wheeler is set to construct at a 50% faster pace than they did last year because the homes and concept are selling very well--so much so they're expanding into a wide variety of styles and offerings.

It's possible for two things to be simultaneously true: 1) Wheeler is not what you would choose for yourself, at least at this point; and 2) it's very popular with strong sales and the momentum seems to be increasing.


I invite anyone to go down there and have a drink at the brewery and/or a meal at Terminal Commons and just walk around. It's incredibly impressive and you can appreciate that without wanting to live there.

The thing I love about it most is it's something entirely different and provides yet another option in OKC.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Wheeler becomes the envy of many other cities in the next few years as it is quickly rounding into shape.

And I say all this while also admitting that at this point in my life it's not for me. But I love the fact it is there as an option and I'm very excited to watch it continue to grow.

Reminds me of what Chris Rock used to say when certain people would complain about rap music:
"Its not for you"

and, thats OK.

I actually wouldn't mind living in the Wheeler District. But my dream home would have a back yard big enough for a modest inground pool and entertaining area. Unfortunately (for now) that's not happening in Wheeler. And, yes, there is a market for houses in that price range. If there wasn't they wouldn't be getting sold.

The neighborhood immediately to the west will be directly connected and you can buy in there for a very reasonable amount then have tons leftover to renovate and improve to your exact desires.

You can bet that is going to start happening soon.

There is high demand for walkable, mixed-use neighborhoods period. Too bad it takes large scale developer money and city incentives to get projects like this underway. We need more supply of these neighborhoods and the prices would likely come down. We subsidized the suburbs for decades (and still are).

There is high demand for walkable, mixed-use neighborhoods period. Too bad it takes large scale developer money and city incentives to get projects like this underway. We need more supply of these neighborhoods and the prices would likely come down. We subsidized the suburbs for decades (and still are).

I'd like to see a much larger version of this, and comparable to Walsh Ranch in Fort Worth be developed. I already have a place in mind. Off Northwest Expressway up west of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. There's LOTS of open land to make use of.

I'd like to see a much larger version of this, and comparable to Walsh Ranch in Fort Worth be developed. I already have a place in mind. Off Northwest Expressway up west of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. There's LOTS of open land to make use of.

Yes, but walsh ranch has the support of walsh millions/billions. I guess we could see a kaiser ranch in Tulsa or a Hamm ranch in okc.

There is high demand for walkable, mixed-use neighborhoods period. Too bad it takes large scale developer money and city incentives to get projects like this underway. We need more supply of these neighborhoods and the prices would likely come down. We subsidized the suburbs for decades (and still are).

Why is it still so hard for people to grasp this concept?.

^^^^^^^^^^
This is why I have consistently stated in this thread and elsewhere over the years that Wheeler is incredibly important to OKC, not so much as a specific place but instead as an idea and inspiration, to be replicated elsewhere.

All you have to do is look through this thread or social media over the years pertaining to Wheeler to understand that most people have a limited capacity to envision/conceptualize spaces they haven't previously interacted with personally. Which is why great ideas are often NIMBYd to death before they ever see the light of day. Oklahomans are also not particularly well traveled, so many folks' idea of great urban development might be limited to their experiences in Dallas or some other nearby sprawling metro. Look no further than other NIMBY-killed proposed developments such as the one a few years back adjacent to Fink Park in Edmond. I believe that if Wheeler had already existed THAT development would have breezed through, and there would likely be others like it underway.

Instead, nearly all housing starts in the metro continue to be the same unimaginative suburban lowest common denominator type.

Wheeler is going to be of a planned, walkabile standard that barely exists in the United States, much less the central U.S.. People who don't LIVE in Wheeler are going to EXPERIENCE Wheeler, and they will begin to exert market pressure on other parts of the metro. It will take decades, but I believe this pressure will engender quality suburban retrofits and new walkable development throughout the metro.

You would think the next step would be a suburban community with some of these same elements and then integrated commercial on the corner/major roads on the perimeter.

The main problem, of course, is home builders and commercial builders are completely different entities and animals.

We have tons of subdivisions with sidewalks, parks and pools. What we don't have is the same with commercial mixed-use integrated in any way. In fact, the commercial stuff usually has fences or walls around it to block it from the homes.

I know Richard McKown is looking to change this a bit in his huge home developments in far north OKC.

You would think the next step would be a suburban community with some of these same elements and then integrated commercial on the corner/major roads on the perimeter.

The main problem, of course, is home builders and commercial builders are completely different entities and animals.

We have tons of subdivisions with sidewalks, parks and pools. What we don't have is the same with commercial mixed-use integrated in any way. In fact, the commercial stuff usually has fences or walls around it to block it from the homes.

I know Richard McKown is looking to change this a bit in his huge home developments in far north OKC.

I really wish some new suburban neighborhoods would just go back to working off of the basic grid. Enough of all of the cul-de-sacs and meandering roads. Grid neighborhoods naturally spark walkability as usually there will be retail or commercial on the lots at the ends of the streets where it meets the main arterial. Bring back true neighborhoods instead of private living districts.

The other huge difference at Wheeler is that garages are in the back and yards are small or non-existent.

This forces people to use the common areas and allows the front of the houses and streets to be a million times more people-friendly: people on their porches, kids playing safely in the street, etc.

As long as you have huge yards and homefronts dominated by garages, no amount of sidewalks or amenities are going to draw people out and together. And of course, that communal way of living is a big part of Wheeler's uniqueness and appeal.

Urbanized, great post and mad props for mentioning 18 on Fink. It’s a damn shame that was killed. Same for the Spring Creek Expansion and the recently killed Coffee Creek commercial that was to include a small mixed use walkable corner. All of those things were killed on the basis of increased traffic yet those same people making that argument have no problem with approving the same cookie cutter strip malls that have the same impact. They’re the same kind of people who oppose a Walmart and then proceed to shop there once it opens.

I also agree Oklahomans in general don’t seem to be well traveled but Dallas has cookie cutter sprawl developments that at least look nice and are way better than almost anything in Oklahoma. DFW also has tons of lifestyle centers and walkable developments throughout the metro. I don’t think an Oklahoman needs to visit abroad to understand and appreciate why good urban development is important and doable in Oklahoma. I believe it is just selfishness and the desire to keep the big city elements as far away from them as possible.

I really wish some new suburban neighborhoods would just go back to working off of the basic grid. Enough of all of the cul-de-sacs and meandering roads. Grid neighborhoods naturally spark walkability as usually there will be retail or commercial on the lots at the ends of the streets where it meets the main arterial. Bring back true neighborhoods instead of private living districts.
I don’t mind the wavy streets as opposed to a grid but it really bugs me to see neighborhoods that are clearly intentionally disconnected by things like cul-de-sacs or dead end streets. Same thing just happened in NE Edmond with the new Francis Tuttle. The nearby neighborhood went crazy and stopped a plan to connect a road to an existing one through the neighborhood that currently dead ends. All so they can prevent 100 cars per day from passing through.

It might sound like nothing to worry about but apply that scenario to hundreds of developments across the city and it makes an impact. As great and promising as Wheeler is I almost expected the development to be cut off from nearby neighborhoods as doing so has become status quo in OKC but I am thrilled to know that is not the case here.

I really wish some new suburban neighborhoods would just go back to working off of the basic grid. Enough of all of the cul-de-sacs and meandering roads. Grid neighborhoods naturally spark walkability as usually there will be retail or commercial on the lots at the ends of the streets where it meets the main arterial. Bring back true neighborhoods instead of private living districts.

Exactly this. Not to mention this would fix all of the suburban traffic problems that are a constant talking point on this site.

I don’t mind the wavy streets as opposed to a grid but it really bugs me to see neighborhoods that are clearly intentionally disconnected by things like cul-de-sacs or dead end streets. Same thing just happened in NE Edmond with the new Francis Tuttle. The nearby neighborhood went crazy and stopped a plan to connect a road to an existing one through the neighborhood that currently dead ends. All so they can prevent 100 cars per day from passing through.

It might sound like nothing to worry about but apply that scenario to hundreds of developments across the city and it makes an impact. As great and promising as Wheeler is I almost expected the development to be cut off from nearby neighborhoods as doing so has become status quo in OKC but I am thrilled to know that is not the case here.

What's ironic is the more street to arterial connections there are, the less traffic will use any given street in the neighborhood. Instead of forcing all of the neighborhood traffic onto 1 or 2 streets, it is naturally dispersed onto a dozen or more streets.

^^^ yep

I'd like to see a much larger version of this, and comparable to Walsh Ranch in Fort Worth be developed. I already have a place in mind. Off Northwest Expressway up west of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. There's LOTS of open land to make use of.

I didn't know about Walsh Ranch, but I live in DFW so I'm interested. I was not impressed. It's basically suburbs with better sidewalks, a couple amenities, and slightly smaller properties. You still have to drive to get anywhere it seems. I have friends who keep telling me about new urbanist neighborhoods in DFW and I consistently find them disappointing. For those that know, what are the best ones in DFW? I'd like to do some exploring.

Here are things that are superior about Wheeler compared to these other developments:
— more and better mixed uses (already, there's a brewery, commons, pool, and office)
— it will have better connectivity to surrounding neighborhoods and downtown (many of these DFW developments are segregated and disconnected)... not that Wheeler is perfect. I have problems with how they approached the school, but I won't rehash that.
— it seems denser than these other neighborhoods

Anyway, the post by Urbanized nailed why Wheeler is so important. I still think there are really important issues Wheeler must address as it develops such as offering legitimate affordable housing and really learning from and working with the neighborhoods around them.

^

There is incredibly affordable housing that will be attached to street grid directly to the west; houses selling for less than $50K.


People have to come to grips with the fact if you want new construction, there is no way to make it affordable unless it's very small with almost no amenities.

Otherwise, there is tons of opportunity to take existing homes and apartments that are quite affordable; there are still thousands of such properties in and directly adjacent to the core.

Just curious what this board considers "affordable' new housing. How much $ per foot should be the benchmark? With that, what amenities are expected?