Yes to terminal commons

You know, as beautiful as this place looks to be, I can't shake the idea that some insane, politically-driven meth head is going to see this place as a target. I love the idea of the school being here, but I can't shake the fact that we're in a politically charged climate that would consider a place that offers a bilingual curriculum to be a target. I do pray that there is ample amounts of armed security present to protect the students.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THIS PLACE IN A NATIONAL NEWS FEED.

If you are this anxious about a school have you considered talking to a professional or preist about your anxieties?

@HHE

It's the talking to these kinds of professionals throughout my years that had me become a more patient individual as well as a critical thinker. I want to say it's merely speculation, but the only thing that has seemed to stop mass shootings in this country is an international pandemic, (that's depressing to admit).

Prayers up to say that I am wrong and that this is a place which nothing like that will ever happen.

What in the world? lol

I was hoping the school might have a little more height for being in an "urban" area... For some reason I like the multi-level schools around OKC and Tulsa proper.

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Some of the townhomes/shophomes taking shape

Kind of a stretch, no ? Bilingual school are common enough and not only for Spanish.

Good project overall.
Are the terminal Commons open ?

While I don't share the same concern as HFAA, when you say "common enough" in the context of an OKC/OK based forum - can you expound on that? Do we have a dual-immersion school anywhere else in the state?

While I don't share the same concern as HFAA, when you say "common enough" in the context of an OKC/OK based forum - can you expound on that? Do we have a dual-immersion school anywhere else in the state?

Not quite sure if it fits the criteria, but isn't Le Monde in Norman an example?

While certainly not common, Tulsa Public Schools have 2. Eisenhower International and Dual Immersion Academy both offer this program.

While I don't share the same concern as HFAA, when you say "common enough" in the context of an OKC/OK based forum - can you expound on that? Do we have a dual-immersion school anywhere else in the state?

I believe TPS has a dual language program as well as Jenks.

I believe TPS has a dual language program as well as Jenks.

Jenks also has a Chinese immersion program.

Do we have a dual-immersion school anywhere else in the state?

Yes, there are quite a few. My friend's kids attend one in Tulsa. There are a lot in Texas. Dual immersion schools have shown a lot of success. It's a great school model.

Sounds like the Oklahoma examples are basically all in Tulsa, so good to finally get one.

My wife is Argentine and my son (will be) a dual citizen. In theory he'll be truly bi-lingual so this school will be high up on the list of schools to try and transfer into - hopefully his background improves his chances and I imagine he'd be able to add a lot to the classroom assuming he'll be strong in both languages (He's not yet 1, so I think it's super early to tell if he'll have any language/learning disabilities).

Heronville school in Capitol Hill has been dual for years.

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Steel going up at future office building at Wheeler District.

This community is really starting to take shape:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler091320db.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler091320a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler091320c.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler091320b.jpg

What are the foundations south of the office building in picture 2?

What are the foundations south of the office building in picture 2?

More homes.

They look like more row houses to me. Garage in the back, kind of tiny looking first floor living space up front next to the road.

Glad to seeing it taking shape and looking nice, because we need to always remind ourselves that they got $120 million in tif funds to make this happen. I know a chunk of that is for the school but still will never understand why it deserved that much help.

Man this development really stirs up the comments on social media. This really angers a lot of people to their core for some reason.

Man this development really stirs up the comments on social media. This really angers a lot of people to their core for some reason.

No kidding.

I had to stop reading the comments.

Wow, no kidding. I just went and looked at the comments on the tweet Pete put out a bit ago with some of these new pictures and so much anger.

Wow, no kidding. I just went and looked at the comments on the tweet Pete put out a bit ago with some of these new pictures and so much anger.

Don't look at Facebook. Much worse

The first 2 comments on insta say:

1. "I bet anyone that'll live there will be too scared to venture one mile south."
2. "love the *gentrification*"

Where is the lie, though? It's Carlton Landing in the middle of OKC. It's for wealthy white people. No shame in wanting to live there, but don't be mad when people call it out for what it is. If there is any question, just look at the stunts the charter school tried to pull before OKCPS declined their application.

Well, it sure as hell ain't gentrification to build a new neighborhood in the middle of an empty field. Do these people even know what words mean?

And the first comment is just baseless stereotyping.

Somebody's trying to do something. So it's no surprise a bunch of crybabies on the internet have a negative opinion of it.

Pete, is the dirt work to the left in the bottom photo where the school will go?

Pete, is the dirt work to the left in the bottom photo where the school will go?

Yes, they have already started to move ground.

Yes, they have already started to move ground.Oh sweet! Are there any renderings or plans?

Somebody's trying to do something. So it's no surprise a bunch of crybabies on the internet have a negative opinion of it.

There's a pretty huge online movement that is hostile to nearly all new housing development in the name of opposing what they see as gentrification, pretty much regardless of any of the actual details of any given development.

A big part of the backlash is that this project is it is being done by a very wealthy family, the leader of which having been a mayor of OKC and who espoused all types of controversial and at least slightly racist statements. Fair judgment or not, people don't forget and have a general distrust for politicians.

It is also getting a huge amount of public subsidy and therefore people feel more entitled to weigh in.

And at least to date, it is very expensive per square foot which is going to cause plenty of people to 1) not understand the value; 2) deride others willing to spend that much; and 3) feel left out by 'elitists'.


I find the entire development fascinating mainly around how people are reacting to it, both positively (lots of home sales) and negatively (and the reasons for that negativity).

I think it also just offends a lot of people's sensibilities. This development is pretty much flying in the face of the conventional suburban mindset of what is considered desirable (design, layout, location, land use) When people see this and then find out people are happily paying 2-4 times the money to live there, it elicits a negative emotional response.

This has nothing do with people in suburbs being jealous. Lol

I think it also just offends a lot of people's sensibilities. This development is pretty much flying in the face of the conventional suburban mindset of what is considered desirable (design, layout, location, land use) When people see this and then find out people are happily paying 2-4 times the money to live there, it elicits a negative emotional response.

And many have said it is nothing more than an Edmond subdivision with a few amenities and a location that allows rich white people to feel less guilty for living in an exclusionary environment.

(This exact point was just made to me yesterday when discussing Wheeler.)

And many have said it is nothing more than an Edmond subdivision with a few amenities and a location that allows rich white people to feel less guilty for living in an exclusionary environment.

(This exact point was just made to me yesterday when discussing Wheeler.)

Summarized my feelings pretty well. And I’m definitely not a jealous suburbanite.

Maybe it's more of a philosophical argument, but what Wheeler has built so far doesn't look like any Oklahoma subdivision I have ever seen.

Gentrification is often used in broader ways than the literal definition. Is a bunch of wealthy, white people (whose powerful families have made racist remarks) moving into a working Latinx community and immediately demanding they should get a school on their terms gentrification? Absolutely. Their approach reminds me of the "Nice White Parents" podcast (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html) where wealthy white NYC parents "choose" an underresourced school with Black and Brown families and immediately demand a French language class for their children while claiming it's for everyone. Those parents only improved the school if it was in their interest and their vision. They ignored the interests and bilingual skills of families and students already in the school. It's depressing to listen to.

I say all this as someone who generally loves the design of the development. But to describe this development as gentrification is fair.

Maybe it's more of a philosophical argument, but what Wheeler has built so far doesn't look like any Oklahoma subdivision I have ever seen.

There are a few in Edmond these days. Less dense, but similar.

Gentrification is often used in broader ways than the literal definition. Is a bunch of wealthy, white people (whose powerful families have made racist remarks) moving into a working Latinx community and immediately demanding they should get a school on their terms gentrification? Absolutely. Their approach reminds me of the "Nice White Parents" podcast (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/podcasts/nice-white-parents-serial.html) where wealthy white NYC parents "choose" an underresourced school with Black and Brown families and immediately demand a French language class for their children while claiming it's for everyone. Those parents only improved the school if it was in their interest and their vision. They ignored the interests and bilingual skills of families and students already in the school. It's depressing to listen to.

I say all this as someone who generally loves the design of the development. But to describe this development as gentrification is fair.
What is the end game with this mentality? How does an area get nicer? Are we just going to give free money to disadvantage people so they can live in the same type of lifestyle those who have money(many who work their asses off for) are able to live? Are we just going to let these areas rot and decay? Gentrification, when the factor of race is removed, is literally a person going in and restoring a build to its former glory. Well, it’s really when a bunch of buildings are remodeled. Yes the rent is raised because new money is invested and the world isn’t a charity case.

But again, what should happen?

There are a few in Edmond these days. Less dense, but similar.
With commercial? They were trying “retrofit” Coffee Creek subdivision in a sense and integrate commercial but unfortunately that project was killed by local opposition, of course.

What is the end game with this mentality?

It's actually pretty simple. Actually engage and form relationships with people in the neighborhood. Respect community leaders who have long cared about the area. Work with them to determine goals for the area that benefit everyone. All this requires is effort and an interest in equity. A primary tenet of gentrification is to do whatever you can to get your vision achieved without compromise.

It's actually pretty simple. Actually engage and form relationships with people in the neighborhood. Respect community leaders who have long cared about the area. Work with them to determine goals for the area that benefit everyone. All this requires is effort and an interest in equity. A primary tenet of gentrification is to do whatever you can to get your vision achieved without compromise.
I’m trying to understand what the compromise is though. Why should someone going through the proper zoning and building procedures need to compromise with a very small percentage of people nearby. But again, what is the compromise? I follow development in LA very closely and the building next to me in Hollywood is being “gentrified.”

The developer is required to make a certain number of the units affordable and give proper compensation to anyone living that needs to find a new place to live. I have a friend who is among around 4 people that have refused to leave. It doesn’t seem like developers get to do whatever they want.

This has nothing do with people in suburbs being jealous. Lol

Im not saying people are jealous at all, I’m just saying it’s so bizarre for a lot of people they don’t understand it and it causes an immediate visceral reaction of dozens of “this is so f*** stupid” “I can’t believe people would be dumb enough to buy this in the ghetto” “Who would do this” type of reaction. I mean from the comments, some people are mad enough to go down to wheeler and start punching the buildings. Just from a couple of posted Ariel photos. It’s triggering some type of emotion.

I’m trying to understand what the compromise is though. Why should someone going through the proper zoning and building procedures need to compromise with a very small percentage of people nearby. But again, what is the compromise? I follow development in LA very closely and the building next to me in Hollywood is being “gentrified.”

The developer is required to make a certain number of the units affordable and give proper compensation to anyone living that needs to find a new place to live. I have a friend who is among around 4 people that have refused to leave. It doesn’t seem like developers get to do whatever they want.

See last post.

My only beef, which is well documented in this thread, is the MASSIVE amount of tax breaks this project received to build housing that the vast majority of people cannot afford.

What is the end game with this mentality? How does an area get nicer? Are we just going to give free money to disadvantage people so they can live in the same type of lifestyle those who have money(many who work their asses off for) are able to live? Are we just going to let these areas rot and decay? Gentrification, when the factor of race is removed, is literally a person going in and restoring a build to its former glory. Well, it’s really when a bunch of buildings are remodeled. Yes the rent is raised because new money is invested and the world isn’t a charity case.

But again, what should happen?

This might make more sense without the $120 million in public money (welfare) given to this project.

Im not saying people are jealous at all, I’m just saying it’s so bizarre for a lot of people they don’t understand it and it causes an immediate visceral reaction of dozens of “this is so f*** stupid” “I can’t believe people would be dumb enough to buy this in the ghetto” “Who would do this” type of reaction. I mean from the comments, some people are mad enough to go down to wheeler and start punching the buildings. Just from a couple of posted Ariel photos. It’s triggering some type of emotion.
Oh I see well then I agree with you

This might make more sense without the $120 million in public money (welfare) given to this project.

what public money??

There are, I think, valid questions and concerns about gentrification, why they're getting a new school when the city just shuttered a number of neighborhood schools, the lack of connectivity with surrounding neighborhoods, etc.

I am much more thrown off by the criticism of its density (its strongest suit), the design of the homes (including a thorough analysis of the side windows of a single home), and sarcastic hyperbolic comparisons of it to Jonestown and being an expensive neighborhood in a field (has anyone checked on every single outlying development in OKC???). It's been vicious and seemingly a contest of who could criticize the development in the harshest terms.

None of these are new issues or discussions to be had and yet Twitter just absolutely blew up yesterday over all of this. It's like everyone just learned of Wheeler yesterday. Bizarre.

In my opinion, a lot of the hate for this project stems from its location - southside. Every place I have ever worked in north okc i have had to endure repeated comments about how ghetto, dangerous, etc. south okc. Go on to any social media where people are asking about where to move in okc and the response is always avoid south okc. I don't have a problem with the school. Only one school was closed in south okc since most of them are overcrowded!

I am much more thrown off by the criticism of its density (its strongest suit), the design of the homes (including a thorough analysis of the side windows of a single home), and sarcastic hyperbolic comparisons of it to Jonestown and being an expensive neighborhood in a field (has anyone checked on every single outlying development in OKC???). It's been vicious and seemingly a contest of who could criticize the development in the harshest terms.

None of these are new issues or discussions to be had and yet Twitter just absolutely blew up yesterday over all of this. It's like everyone just learned of Wheeler yesterday. Bizarre.

This is what was getting to me yesterday, I think.

My disdain has nothing to do with location or density. It's all execution.

I've been here from the beginning and was actually the very first to post anything about the "Wheeler District."


Does this have something to do with the Downtown Airpark?

http://wheelerdistrict.com/

We all talked about how awesome this development would be because of the potential for affordable urban housing.


Great article. I am excited for Blair Humphreys. This is the project he was probably born to do. Fwiw, the MAPS 3 streetcar makes it down to the planned maintenance facility at the new I-40 and Walker. It won't take much effort to connect the Wheeler District, the river area, and Capitol Hill into the system. I am excited. It is really hard to find a reasonably priced house in Gatewood, Mesta, or the like. At least one that isn't already renovated and energy efficient. This is a real opportunity to build all types of new housing at all different types of price points dead center in the middle of OKC.

There have always been concerns about it detracting from the area.


Don't take this the wrong way, as I want it to happen, but curious, will this detract from, or contribute to the rise of Capitol Hill? If this happened semi-organically following a master plan, I think Capitol Hill would gain and benefit. However, if there is any sort of competition for city dollars, I fear Capitol Hill might suffer...

Then we saw these beautiful designs come out of the charette, which obviously was just filler, but got everyone really excited.


These are from Will. Snaps of the presentation of the drafts formed from the charette:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler4.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler5.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler6.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler7.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler8.jpg


I was also very on board at that point.


I am so in love with this development.

Here Chad also mentions the mixed-income and affordability of the housing options.


Actually the timeline (10 years to substantial completion) is not that different from a suburban housing addition. People are missing that - while they will be building homes and commercial themselves too - they are inviting other homebuilders in to build within the framework and design guidelines of the district. This is no different that dozens of developments in places like Edmond or Norman (or wherever); it is just more carefully-planned and focused on the pedestrian environment.

There were MULTIPLE homebuilders (and commercial developers) in attendance at the charettes, and they already have strong interest from them. This wasn't just a bunch of potential residents and community do-gooders participating.

People are also missing that this involves a wide range of housing product, not just luxury homes and not just large multi-family, both of which are most likely to be affected by the market. This development includes tons of modest product. What is perhaps most staggering in fact is the variety of lifestyles it will address.

Naysay all you want. This development is moving forward, and while it may not (even certainly will not) look exactly like what came out of the charettes (they are just now taking the charette conceptuals to their respective shops for final planning documents) the finished product will be anything but watered down.

What we talked about back then and what has been delivered to this point are very different things. Which is fine. They are a private company and allowed to do what they want. Doesn't mean they haven't delivered to this point. There is not a house in that development listed <$230/sqft.

This is what was getting to me yesterday, I think.

Yep.

I didn't see the comment myself, but apparently someone even said the people working on it should "hang themselves." To make a comment like that over development is insane.

Yep.

I didn't see the comment myself, but apparently someone even said the people working on it should "hang themselves." To make a comment like that over development is insane.

Agree that there were several comments that were totally out of line. But for everyone here to just dismiss legitimate criticism of the development as trolls and jealous suburbanites is not a good look.

Yep.

I didn't see the comment myself, but apparently someone even said the people working on it should "hang themselves." To make a comment like that over development is insane.

Yep, I saw that one.

My disdain has nothing to do with location or density. It's all execution.

I've been here from the beginning and was actually the very first to post anything about the "Wheeler District."



We all talked about how awesome this development would be because of the potential for affordable urban housing.



There have always been concerns about it detracting from the area.



Then we saw these beautiful designs come out of the charette, which obviously was just filler, but got everyone really excited.



I was also very on board at that point.



Here Chad also mentions the mixed-income and affordability of the housing options.



What we talked about back then and what has been delivered to this point are very different things. Which is fine. They are a private company and allowed to do what they want. Doesn't mean they haven't delivered to this point. There is not a house in that development listed <$230/sqft.

seems like they are following their plan

Agree that there were several comments that were totally out of line. But for everyone here to just dismiss legitimate criticism of the development as trolls and jealous suburbanites is not a good look.

FWIW I agree that some of the criticism is warranted and your revival of older posts promising a range of affordable housing is dismaying given what we now see happening. My main discomfort (if you can call it that) was the groundswell and fever pitch it suddenly reached on social media yesterday after construction has been ongoing for months. That kind of led to the perception of a group of people just trying to one-up each other with critical hot takes.

Wheeler District a 15-20 year development built out in multiple phases. The first residents only moved in 18 months ago. This is only Phase 1. The argument that Wheeler doesn't have affordable product is absolutely false. Take a look at 46 of 60 total sales in phase 1 (so far) based on county assessor records:

26% of the homes sold (12) were between $148,000 and $250,000----- based on today's rate of 3% on a 30 year mortgage with minium 10% down- The P&I payment would be between $600/month - $950 per month

28% of homes sold (13) were between $300,000 and $370,000---- based on today's rate of 3% on a 30 year mortgage with minium 10% down- The P&I payment would be between $1140/month - $1400 per month

Looking at current available product on the Wheeler Website, 7 homes are available under $320,000 and 5 homes are under $430,000.


It's comical that people make blank statements without doing any research. This is a HUGE development and already has had outstanding success. The residents of OKC should be proud of this. This area was nothing but an abandoned airfield with overgrown grass just 24 months ago. People don't understand how difficult this type of development is to pull off. Kudos to the Wheeler team to push forward in the face of diversity. With great risk comes great reward. I believe we will look back many years down the road and see the Wheeler District as one of the greatest developments in the US. Having 150 acres of undeveloped land within 1 mile of the CBD is unheard of. Wheeler Phase 1 has been a huge success.

Can you post the Sold data of the homes that didn't make the MLS?

Here are the lifetime MLS numbers

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