Think that looks much more similar to the AEP Fitness Center (now OKC Ballet) that AHMM also designed. I really like this project and think it ties into surrounding buildings and the past.

One of the quonset hut manufacturers has that building on their website as one of their kits.

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Thanks for the pics on post #2042, Andrew. Does anyone know where this will be located in the master plan of the neighborhood? I'm trying to find the most recent layout for the development but can't locate any detailed images or plans. Does Wheeler have their next phases of builds set? An updated master plan would be really neat to see how the neighborhood is coming together in light the of the Big Easy brewery, commercial building, park, and numerous houses popping up.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler121719a.jpg

Steel is going up on the Big Friendly Brewery next to the future Terminal Commons Cafe.

https://i.imgur.com/4yf6aQe.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/sJuzVgw.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/W1YNlVV.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/mlBBCAq.jpg

This is going to be such a neighborhood!

HA! Don't burn it down!

ha ha he he ho ho

This is going to be such a neighborhood!

Agree, the potential is there. Looking more like what could expand to Lackmeyer's mystery project--'make Kansas City and Dallas jealous'.

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Does Lackmeyer do any independent reporting or does he simply repeat what he’s been told? I seriously doubt Blair Humphreys told him this because it’s obviously not true. There aren’t close to 40 families moved in; there aren’t even 40 houses completed. And there are at least 3 houses completed that haven’t been sold. Lastly, they’ve been building the spec homes for months now—they aren’t just starting to build them.

Just saw this on the last chat and it annoyed me because I’ve been following the development closely and it’s not hard to get these facts correct.

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Does Lackmeyer do any independent reporting or does he simply repeat what he’s been told? I seriously doubt Blair Humphreys told him this because it’s obviously not true. There aren’t close to 40 families moved in; there aren’t even 40 houses completed. And there are at least 3 houses completed that haven’t been sold. Lastly, they’ve been building the spec homes for months now—they aren’t just starting to build them.

Just saw this on the last chat and it annoyed me because I’ve been following the development closely and it’s not hard to get these facts correct.

Don’t want to argue with how many families have moved in, but the other numbers seem to be pretty accurate. All you have to do is look at the pics above that Pete took and count the homes. I counted 42 either completed or close to complete and 12 in various earlier stages of construction. My wife sent out mailers to the two dozen or so addresses at Wheeler back in the summer and I would guess several others have moved in since that time.

I'm posting this article here because I still see a number of members post about how they don't "get" Wheeler. And while Wheeler has tackled the problem of efficient land use, there is still the challenge of affordability. The article speaks to that concern as well.

http://theconversation.com/americas-love-affair-with-the-single-family-house-is-cooling-but-it-wont-be-a-quick-breakup-120719?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1577975781

I personally think that is a horrible idea to allow multifamily in neighborhoods where there aren't any. It would destabilize any area where this would happen.

I personally think that is a horrible idea to allow multifamily in neighborhoods where there aren't any. It would destabilize any area where this would happen.
Would you care to expand on why destabilization would occur?

Long story short it would bring down home values if all of a sudden multifamily were allowed to plot down in areas that have been SFR for years. Say your home is worth $300K, but a quad plex goes in. Well they start selling for $75K a piece. All of a sudden your home isn't worth $300K anymore. Equity vanishes.

No one will say it out loud, but no home buyer wants to live in a home next to a multifamily. I dealt with that on a listing I had on 25th that was next to a quad plex. Took a long time to sell and #1 complaint were buyers were uneasy about the constant turnover that would happen next door.

Long story short it would bring down home values if all of a sudden multifamily were allowed to plot down in areas that have been SFR for years. Say your home is worth $300K, but a quad plex goes in. Well they start selling for $75K a piece. All of a sudden your home isn't worth $300K anymore. Equity vanishes.

No one will say it out loud, but no home buyer wants to live in a home next to a multifamily. I dealt with that on a listing I had on 25th that was next to a quad plex. Took a long time to sell and #1 complaint were buyers were uneasy about the constant turnover that would happen next door.

Do you have similar experiences with condo development? I feel condos are at times under-represented in density discussions.
One thing I rather like about North May/Penn Avenue is there is a good mix of single-family, multi-family and condominiums in all price ranges from I-44 to JKT.
(Full disclosure: I find condominiums desirable and am slightly biased)

Do you have similar experiences with condo development? I feel condos are at times under-represented in density discussions.
One thing I rather like about North May/Penn Avenue is there is a good mix of single-family, multi-family and condominiums in all price ranges from I-44 to JKT.
(Full disclosure: I find condominiums desirable and am slightly biased)

The market in Oklahoma City doesn't seem to value condos. I wonder if it is because land was historically cheap. It is interesting to see high end condos and very low end in okc.

The pockets of condos out there in that area are pretty successful. The entry point prices are usually around $100K too so they are not terribly expensive to get into. Most have solid HOA and management that keep them nice so that helps too. LIke HHE said, I just think there aren't too many because our land prices have never been high so there was never a rush to put them in.

The pockets of condos out there in that area are pretty successful. The entry point prices are usually around $100K too so they are not terribly expensive to get into. Most have solid HOA and management that keep them nice so that helps too. LIke HHE said, I just think there aren't too many because our land prices have never been high so there was never a rush to put them in.

Right. And North May/Penn is high dollar dirt (in most parts).
I'm just curious if single-family home buyers are as concerned about condos as apartments. If you're looking at rezoning an established single-family residential neighborhoods (which in this example is valuable enough land for apartments), would (in your opinion) proposing condos or a mix of for-sale and for-rent units be more palatable for they adjoining property owners and shore up some of the inevitable sell-off.

Inside the actual neighborhood? No. I think anything but SFR would be a disaster. It's basically giving the double birds to existing homeowners and saying we are doing this to your home values on the basis of being inclusive. I know that is being blunt but how is that fair? Whole thing just seems like a slippery slope.

Now if it's like the Grove and there is a plot of land next to it that is going to be APTS, then there is really nothing you can do about that.

It's interesting to me, and I think it's really awesome, how some of our historic neighborhoods (HH and Mesta being two examples) were always mixed occupancy type, and still seem to thrive with the blend of single-family, duplexes and multiplexes scattered throughout. There's also a wide range of sizes and price points among the single family homes, which allows a more diverse mix of residents. I've seen people upsize and downsize within the same area over the years as their families and needs change.

Inside the actual neighborhood? No. I think anything but SFR would be a disaster. It's basically giving the double birds to existing homeowners and saying we are doing this to your home values on the basis of being inclusive. I know that is being blunt but how is that fair? Whole thing just seems like a slippery slope.

Now if it's like the Grove and there is a plot of land next to it that is going to be APTS, then there is really nothing you can do about that.

Multi family doesn’t automatically lower value. In some cases they help to increase value by adding density and bringing more amenities to the neighborhood. Density follows demand And high demand is usually a good sign for property values.There are several small apts, duplexes, 4 plex, and garage apts sprinkled throughout my neighborhood. There have also been a surge in new multi family units inside the neighborhood over the last 5 years or so and home values continue to skyrocket.

The good vs bad of what multi family does to a neighborhood depends entirely on where the neighborhood is and how it functions. Classen 16 being built certainly hasn’t hurt property values along 16th.

I suppose it’s just individual buyer preference at the end of the day. But I wouldn’t say “everyone” hates living next to Multifamily or that Multifamily would destabilize “any” neighborhood it went in to.

It's interesting to me, and I think it's really awesome, how some of our historic neighborhoods (HH and Mesta being two examples) were always mixed occupancy type, and still seem to thrive with the blend of single-family, duplexes and multiplexes scattered throughout. There's also a wide range of sizes and price points among the single family homes, which allows a more diverse mix of residents. I've seen people upsize and downsize within the same area over the years as their families and needs change.

Those two neighborhoods (and many others close, like Paseo, Uptown, etc.) having all those multi-family homes probably work out quite well because all the multi-family homes are scattered throughout the neighborhoods, which is waaaaay better than having a monolithic set of apartments/condos sitting all in one spot with a sea of parking around them.

I personally think that is a horrible idea to allow multifamily in neighborhoods where there aren't any. It would destabilize any area where this would happen.
So are predicting neighborhoods in this area will see a drop in their home values?

A cheap apartment building in an existing middle class neighborhood will bring down home values. The perception is that apartments (particularly cheap apartments) bring in undesirable people who will tear up the neighborhood and steal stuff.

A fairly expensive apartment building, catering to young professionals, can increase home values in a neighborhood. Bring in young people with money, and they want places to spend that money. Existing homes in the neighborhood are in higher demand because there's more cool stuff around.

It appears there's a certain income level, below which apartments are seen as "bad". Above that level and they don't have the same negative perception.

This.

I have lived in apartments where the monthly rent is considerably higher than the mortgage payment on a neighboring home would be. There's no reason multi-family has to drag down a neighborhood if it is nice and well maintained. Lots of people have reasons why they live in apartments from time to time, including divorce, job change, being newly-arrived in a city, or simple preference.



A cheap apartment building in an existing middle class neighborhood will bring down home values. The perception is that apartments (particularly cheap apartments) bring in undesirable people who will tear up the neighborhood and steal stuff.

A fairly expensive apartment building, catering to young professionals, can increase home values in a neighborhood. Bring in young people with money, and they want places to spend that money. Existing homes in the neighborhood are in higher demand because there's more cool stuff around.

It appears there's a certain income level, below which apartments are seen as "bad". Above that level and they don't have the same negative perception.

This.

I have lived in apartments where the monthly rent is considerably higher than the mortgage payment on a neighboring home would be. There's no reason multi-family has to drag down a neighborhood if it is nice and well maintained. Lots of people have reasons why they live in apartments from time to time, including divorce, job change, being newly-arrived in a city, or simple preference.

For real. I live in a 650 sq ft apartment right now and it's honestly just about the largest space I would want to live in barring any major lifestyle changes. I don't own enough stuff to justify anything larger.

For real. I live in a 650 sq ft apartment right now and it's honestly just about the largest space I would want to live in barring any major lifestyle changes. I don't own enough stuff to justify anything larger.

Same except I’m in 550 square feet. I’ve never felt the need for more space.

Per Oklahoman, January 6, 2020

William Crum:

Council agrees to $20 million for elementary school

The city council concurred with the Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust on a deal devoting $20 million to construction of a new elementary school in the Wheeler District, which is under development on the south side of the Oklahoma River at Western Avenue. The school is slated to be built at 1300 SW 15 St.; the deal is with the Wheeler Community Foundation Inc. Costs are covered through a tax-increment financing arrangement approved by the city council in 2017.

https://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/18668502_G.jpeg?auto=webp&disable=upscale&height=560&fit=bounds&lastEditedDate=1565608457000

The school would be known as Western Gateway Elementary School. Developers are hoping to open the dual language charter school in August of 2020 (look for update).

OKCFA is having a tour of Terminal Commons on 1/30:

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/Terminal-Commons-in-the-Wheeler-District-Tour.html?soid=1116756590278&aid=lkXotEQZleA

Photos of Terminal Commons from shawnw:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/terminal013020a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/terminal013020b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/terminal013020c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/terminal013020d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/terminal013020e.jpg

They said estimated opening is March.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020820a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020820b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020820f.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020820c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020820d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020820e.jpg

FYI there's going to be a playground inside the concrete wall between Terminal Commons and the Brewery, hopefully open by Spring.

I wonder why they're placing a concrete wall instead of a cheaper fence around a playground.

I wonder why they're placing a concrete wall instead of a cheaper fence around a playground.

It's a design element. Hard to see, but there is a quote carved into the wall.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler020920f.jpg

Man, I hope those trees grow quickly. Gonna be brutal walking around there in the summertime.

1579015790

first section framed out and roof is up

On my way to TFCU off Western & 23rd Street south, I was impressed with what progress was made from the street level. Wheeler project really seems to be going full steam ahead.

and just think this is phase 1 of many

1579615794

you can really start to see the brewery coming together

^

Thanks very much.

The office building directly south should be starting soon as well.

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Framework looking almost complete.

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Looks like they have started moving the dirt for phase two and the last parts of phase one.

Do these houses have basements or is there a tornado shelter of some kind?

Do these houses have basements or is there a tornado shelter of some kind?

No, at least not standard.

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Do these houses have basements or is there a tornado shelter of some kind?

You would think that any house over $150k would have a built in tornado shelter in a closet or in basement. So much less options after building. Out closet under the staircase is 18" reinforced concrete rebarred into the slab with a solid steel door, locking mechanism and a monitor hardwired into the security cameras. I guess home buyers aren't demanding these things but to me it is a huge bonus.

I noticed construction work has started behind the New OCPD SW Division Station. I'm wondering if they are about move Air One out there since it is adjacent to the airport.

From the Wheeler FB page:


Introducing the Spoke Street Shop Homes - for those who want to live, work, and play in Wheeler.

These newly released residences deliver all of the conveniences of living in Wheeler while providing the opportunity to dream big. In each three-story home, the ground-floor can be purposed for retail, office, makerspace, workshop, and more, while the upper floors serve as a comfortable living space. The Shop Homes are flexible, allowing the living and working units to function in tandem or independently. Just a few doors down from The Big Friendly Brewery and Terminal Commons, the Spoke Street Shop Homes are in the heart of the Wheeler District.

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94122997_4287936094553574_8670365001443180544_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=m0hWDFBEHnsAX-hzWt9&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=7bd4aee9e8506f522cc3cb46e5ffc0aa&oe=5EC5C7C2


https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/94154050_4287936137886903_1476126929026285568_n.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eWgIr9g2cg0AX877H0h&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=2a316635c79bf511bf0beb64fb92379b&oe=5EC65C1C


https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93255226_4287936177886899_5584927072284835840_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=viashGLTXf4AX_cqMxA&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=e50bc992391666049dd08af09e092c27&oe=5EC3B5DE


https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93312750_4287936224553561_4047635148923994112_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=5EvayrOKumwAX8U6BQN&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=86c8bf2f88965e64a5947fc08e27bc4f&oe=5EC2D639

That is what i have been waiting the last decade to see in Oklahoma City!!!

AHHHH, HOW EXCITING!!!

(This was originally posted in all caps).

Too bad there will be no one working here to buy these homes.

Too bad there will be no one working here to buy these homes.

You'd be surprised how much expendable income stays in 5-10 block radius when an area is walkable. These units will probably first have to house more specialized practices maybe like a CPA's office, or a dentist, but once Wheeler is more filled out, if you're a restaurant and you have 500 people living within 5 blocks of your doors, It's not hard to have, for example, a 5 to 10 table restaurant but still do business as if you had 25-40 tables.

i like it but this deserves to be the build style in Midtown, DD, and the core of downtown.

i like it but this deserves to be the build style in Midtown, DD, and the core of downtown.

Why not in all these places?

These live work spaces have been tried in midtown and Im pretty sure they end up becoming only live spaces. There doesnt appear to be any market for them. Isnt the Hudsons last unsold unit the ground floor live work space?

correct, just walked by it

These live work spaces have been tried in midtown and Im pretty sure they end up becoming only live spaces. There doesnt appear to be any market for them.
I believe they proved successful at West Village, fronting onto Fred Jones.

These live work spaces have been tried in midtown and Im pretty sure they end up becoming only live spaces. There doesnt appear to be any market for them.
I believe they proved successful at West Village, fronting onto Fred Jones.

Too bad there will be no one working here to buy these homes.

hard to say for sure. i would agree that 2020 has got that 1986 feeling to it. At least the banking sector should (knock on wood) not completely melt down this time.

The issue with Midtown is that virtually all the developable property is owned by Midtown Renaissance and they won't do any for-sale units.

Which is the same reason there are are so few condos and townhomes for purchase in that district, apart from Villa Teresa.