Telling people how they have to do things doesn't work when they have other options.

People who are looking to buy in the Wheeler District can live anywhere they want. Moralize at them all you want, but people will be more likely to move into that neighborhood if they feel there is a good school available for their kids.

that's their choice to move to Wheeler to begin with. Why would they also need a special school to entice them to live there?

Again, there is the choice of doing a private school in wheeler. No way should OKC PS be told they have to put in a charter school - your argument goes both ways since Wheeler does have other options nearby. ..

And my point was, parental involvement makes schools good.

that's their choice to move to Wheeler to begin with. Why would they also need a special school to entice them to live there?

Again, there is the choice of doing a private school in wheeler. No way should OKC PS be told they have to put in a charter school - your argument goes both ways since Wheeler does have other options nearby. ..

And my point was, parental involvement makes schools good.

okc ps wouldn't be putting in the public school ..


and from what i have heard the folks at wheeler feel very good about their chances that the state board aproves thier school if it gets to that point

okc ps wouldn't be putting in the public school ..


and from what i have heard the folks at wheeler feel very good about their chances that the state board aproves thier school if it gets to that point

This is what's going to happen. I doubt they raised all that money and donated the land without a clear path to getting this done. I suspect their preference was to do it at the local level with local involvement, knowing that they could get it approved at the state level if necessary.

that's their choice to move to Wheeler to begin with. Why would they also need a special school to entice them to live there?

I'm not suggesting you're incorrect in your other points, but I think you're grossly off on thinking that a charter is not an important part of their master plan. John Rex was special because it gave downtown residents a high-quality school option at a time when that did not exist. It was so very successful that many people moved into the core, or leased apartments, just to get their kids in that school. I know several families with young kids who kept their homes in Edmond or Norman but lived in the Core for a year or two just to get their kids into John Rex.

Wheeler has advertised their future plans for a charter to be based on John Rex. This broadens the net of possible home buyers to include young wealthy families - which is arguably their largest target.

This is what's going to happen. I doubt they raised all that money and donated the land without a clear path to getting this done. I suspect their preference was to do it at the local level with local involvement, knowing that they could get it approved at the state level if necessary.

Wheelers goal was to bring a very nice amenity (school) but use public money. Yes they may have to front the money but lets not forget that the school is getting built with public tax dollars. Heck, almost everything but the actual homes are getting built with public money. They are getting up to $120 million in TIF. Why that high of an amount is anyones question, since they are building pricey and profitable homes in a very condensed fashion.

Wheelers goal was to bring a very nice amenity (school) but use public money. Yes they may have to front the money but lets not forget that the school is getting built with public tax dollars. Heck, almost everything but the actual homes are getting built with public money. They are getting up to $120 million in TIF. Why that high of an amount is anyones question, since they are building pricey and profitable homes in a very condensed fashion.

those tax dollars don't exist without the wheeler project ...

those tax dollars don't exist without the wheeler project ...

Mostly true, but thats never been my argument. My argument is the amount. What should have been less than $20 million is instead a $120 million TIF. Its like tax payers are paying for every sewer line, water line, and road in a private development. As well as the potential school.

Public schools (charter or not) should serve a cross-section of a geographical area and not cater to the residents of a single affluent subdivision. That's what this comes down to.

Public schools (charter or not) should serve a cross-section of a geographical area and not cater to the residents of a single affluent subdivision. That's what this comes down to.

+1000

this charter school would be far more diverse than Rex

How so? I am very familiar with the demographics of John Rex. Locating a charter school with an attendance zone in the downtown area is going to attract wealthier families, but it also includes families east of I-235 and children who live at the City Rescue Mission. Tier 2 families (which is the majority of the student population) come from across OKCPS. The thing that is most unprecedented about the Wheeler school is that it is coming from a single developer. Downtown Oklahoma City is made up of many stakeholders, property owners, residents, and employees representing a broad swatch of the city's population.

First, public schools aren’t “crappy,” but thanks for your thoughtful comment and insult to those of us who worked 10-12 hour days to educate kids and improve our communities for [checks my starting teacher pay] $29,000. Second, families literally flock to suburban *public schools*. The problem is that White Flight has resulted in a segregated school system and the courts quit requiring remedies. If families with means quit leaving then the schools would all be fine.

Facts suck but dispute that the perception that OKC public schools suck is why people with kids move to the suburbs. If they did stop moving, it would help, but that hasn’t happened (at least for families with kids in middle school or older). I have friends who slave away teaching in OKC public schools and freely admit that many of the kids are great, but teaching there sucks and they wouldn’t send their kids to the even their schools. Change is happening but it’s going to take awhile and frankly I wouldn’t want my kids going to NW Classen or Taft right now. I will reluctantly move to the suburbs and be part of the problem if those schools haven’t improved in the next 5-6 years or so.

Public schools (charter or not) should serve a cross-section of a geographical area and not cater to the residents of a single affluent subdivision. That's what this comes down to.

That I do agree with.

Public schools (charter or not) should serve a cross-section of a geographical area and not cater to the residents of a single affluent subdivision. That's what this comes down to.

Especially if you have the kind of scratch to take on a $400k+ mortgage. I'd like to think those folks could pay the tuition at Mt. St. Mary's.

Facts suck but dispute that the perception that OKC public schools suck is why people with kids move to the suburbs. If they did stop moving, it would help, but that hasn’t happened (at least for families with kids in middle school or older). I have friends who slave away teaching in OKC public schools and freely admit that many of the kids are great, but teaching there sucks and they wouldn’t send their kids to the even their schools. Change is happening but it’s going to take awhile and frankly I wouldn’t want my kids going to NW Classen or Taft right now. I will reluctantly move to the suburbs and be part of the problem if those schools haven’t improved in the next 5-6 years or so.

I thought this five years ago.

Made my first visit to the wheel this past weekend. It was a nice evening and our group thought it'd be fun to ride the wheel, but when we arrived we were told it was not operational. Quite the bummer. Got a few good pics though.

15455
15456

https://www.news9.com/story/40904447/proposed-wheeler-district-charter-school-resubmits-plans

I saw on twitter that the school board voted 5-1-1 in favor

Can anyone post a map showing the admission boundaries as approved last night?

Facts suck but dispute that the perception that OKC public schools suck is why people with kids move to the suburbs. If they did stop moving, it would help, but that hasn’t happened (at least for families with kids in middle school or older). I have friends who slave away teaching in OKC public schools and freely admit that many of the kids are great, but teaching there sucks and they wouldn’t send their kids to the even their schools. Change is happening but it’s going to take awhile and frankly I wouldn’t want my kids going to NW Classen or Taft right now. I will reluctantly move to the suburbs and be part of the problem if those schools haven’t improved in the next 5-6 years or so.


I always thought people who sent their kids to private school or moved to Edmond or wherever were lame and the cause of OKCPS decline - Yesterday I had two kids start private school. The Pathway to greatness really screwed us up for this year, we would have had 3 kids at 3 schools all over town and we just couldn't find a way to make it work.

Can anyone post a map showing the admission boundaries as approved last night?
https://www.news9.com/story/40904447...esubmits-plans
This link shows the plan with map.

https://www.news9.com/story/40904447...esubmits-plans
This link shows the plan with map.

looks like the site ate the link... here's a fixed version:

https://www.news9.com/story/40904447/proposed-wheeler-district-charter-school-resubmits-plans

I always thought people who sent their kids to private school or moved to Edmond or wherever were lame and the cause of OKCPS decline - Yesterday I had two kids start private school. The Pathway to greatness really screwed us up for this year, we would have had 3 kids at 3 schools all over town and we just couldn't find a way to make it work.

And unfortunately, many parents with means are faced with a very tough situation when deciding to move out of OKCPS or to go private. We absolutely want what's best for our kids, and to me, that's the best education possible with as few distractions as possible. Things will hopefully slowly get better as more families migrate back to the core and give OKCPS a chance, but I don't necessarily want my kids to be guinea pigs in this hopeful transformation. One of the many reasons why we have our kids in private school.

I understand how challenging it is for parents. Since the courts quit requiring integration in the late 1980s/early 1990s, parents from the last generation re-segregated schools and that trend continues (schools in the U.S. have and likely will always be segregated unless the government requires integration... which it should). Urban school districts like OKCPS then face problems associated with high concentrations of poverty and segregation. Then comes along standardized accountability reform which pretty much guaranteed that schools with high poverty would score low even if their teachers and administrations did well... that's a demoralizing environment to work in and results in high turnover and constant reforms aimed at "fixing" socioeconomic and structural problems. There can be such frequent turnover and reform that it can be hard for parents to recommit to the district even if they want to. In short, we really need a movement of parents to recommit to urban school districts and integration. While I don't like that the Wheeler District gets their own school and things that other schools should already have, if (and this is a massive if) Latinx parents in the surrounding communities can have influence, the school maintains high Latinx enrollment, and parents with means recommit not only to their school but the district, then positive things could come from this school. I do love that it's a dual immersion bilingual school, which is one of my favorite school models.

i wish there were a time constraint given for schools to have 'charter' status. Have a 10-year run or so then make them reapply or get absorbed into the public schools. That could be a boon since if the charter characteristics could be adopted to the general schools - the system gets better as a whole and not just select new/rich neighborhoods.

i wish there were a time constraint given for schools to have 'charter' status. Have a 10-year run or so then make them reapply or get absorbed into the public schools. That could be a boon since if the charter characteristics could be adopted to the general schools - the system gets better as a whole and not just select new/rich neighborhoods.

You know what I agree with this idea. It would bring accountability. My only concern would be the school board getting mad at the charter school's administration and canceling the charter status and then the good teachers would leave and the children would suffer. If there was an independent board to review the charter school every 10 years, then that would be better.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler081719a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler081719b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler081719c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler081719d.jpg

How does one drive through the area with the homes? The cones block one lane and it appears you drive into traffic on the other side...?

How does one drive through the area with the homes? The cones block one lane and it appears you drive into traffic on the other side...?

Which dead-ends. So, you have to drive into a gravel lot and turn around then go back in the wrong direction.

It's all just construction pains.

I thought that this was being sold to the Intelligentsia as a car free, no flex zone. I’m seeing way more cars parked out there than should be acceptable to the natives.

It's probably a ways off, but what's going to happen withe the OCPD heliport?

I thought that this was being sold to the Intelligentsia as a car free, no flex zone. I’m seeing way more cars parked out there than should be acceptable to the natives.
Is this post sarcasm? This is a new urbanist community and new urbanism specifically includes cars for designing cities whereas “old” urbanism did not. How are these people supposed to move around with a car anyhow? Wait on buses for 30 minutes or stay at home until rail is built in 30 years!?? LOL!

At this point in time, most of those folks will still want to drive a car to work, the grocery store, home depot, church etc, but the idea is that over time, the neighborhood itself will contain many of these amenities and folks won't have to drive within their own neighborhood. The Paseo is already like this to an extent. You don't have to drive to go eat, get TP, go to entertainment venues, church, etc... hopefully, in the future, there will be an overall critical mass in core neighborhoods to warrant better transit and even better amenities so that more and more people won't have to drive as often. That being said, it is totally possible to live without a car right now in this city if you can find the right spot to live.

^

Deep Deuce pretty much has it all right now.

Is this post sarcasm? This is a new urbanist community and new urbanism specifically includes cars for designing cities whereas “old” urbanism did not. How are these people supposed to move around with a car anyhow? Wait on buses for 30 minutes or stay at home until rail is built in 30 years!?? LOL!

I have not had a car for the last 5 years. I use the streetcar pretty regularly as my primary transport to and from work, buses I would use more if the frequency was improved. I walk a decent amount to different places, living in midtown makes this pretty convenient. For the majority of groceries and incidentals I typically have them delivered, but I have also utilized the nearby homeland, uptown grocers when I want to pick out my own vegetables. I have used the Lime scooters a decent amount, I have about 300 miles traveled on my account and only two near death experiences from drivers not paying attention. I spend $150-200 on uber/lyft/lime a month, I bought a year pass for the streetcar, and I buy bus tickets randomly when I want to take a line up to a place. I would bike more if better infrastructure was in place, but as it stands biking is more of a fun activity than a genuine form of transit across the city. Living in OKC without a car is very doable and honestly it makes me happier on my way to work. Oklahoma has some of the least attentive ****ty drivers and some of the ****tiest roads I have encountered in the US, I have zero desire to buy another car at the moment.

^

Deep Deuce pretty much has it all right now.

Liar. There is no sex shop. Nearest one is on May and 30th or so, Christy's Toy Box.

Lotta young, experimenting adults in Bricktown, Deep Duece and Midtown. A think a Adult Novelties Store would kill it in DD.

I have not had a car for the last 5 years. I use the streetcar pretty regularly as my primary transport to and from work, buses I would use more if the frequency was improved. I walk a decent amount to different places, living in midtown makes this pretty convenient. For the majority of groceries and incidentals I typically have them delivered, but I have also utilized the nearby homeland, uptown grocers when I want to pick out my own vegetables. I have used the Lime scooters a decent amount, I have about 300 miles traveled on my account and only two near death experiences from drivers not paying attention. I spend $150-200 on uber/lyft/lime a month, I bought a year pass for the streetcar, and I buy bus tickets randomly when I want to take a line up to a place. I would bike more if better infrastructure was in place, but as it stands biking is more of a fun activity than a genuine form of transit across the city. Living in OKC without a car is very doable and honestly it makes me happier on my way to work. Oklahoma has some of the least attentive ****ty drivers and some of the ****tiest roads I have encountered in the US, I have zero desire to buy another car at the moment.
Congratulations, you have identified yourself as being in the 0.0001 percent of Oklahoma City or 60 percent of this forum! LOL

It's probably a ways off, but what's going to happen withe the OCPD heliport?

I believe OKC has a new hangar under design - it will be within the WRWA fence, adjacent to the new SW Division HQ at SW 54th & Portland.

Congratulations, you have identified yourself as being in the 0.0001 percent of Oklahoma City or 60 percent of this forum! LOL

haha! I also don't ever drive and am selling my car this weekend. The costs don't justify keeping it around. I primarily bike.

I have not had a car for the last 5 years. I use the streetcar pretty regularly as my primary transport to and from work, buses I would use more if the frequency was improved. I walk a decent amount to different places, living in midtown makes this pretty convenient. For the majority of groceries and incidentals I typically have them delivered, but I have also utilized the nearby homeland, uptown grocers when I want to pick out my own vegetables. I have used the Lime scooters a decent amount, I have about 300 miles traveled on my account and only two near death experiences from drivers not paying attention. I spend $150-200 on uber/lyft/lime a month, I bought a year pass for the streetcar, and I buy bus tickets randomly when I want to take a line up to a place. I would bike more if better infrastructure was in place, but as it stands biking is more of a fun activity than a genuine form of transit across the city. Living in OKC without a car is very doable and honestly it makes me happier on my way to work. Oklahoma has some of the least attentive ****ty drivers and some of the ****tiest roads I have encountered in the US, I have zero desire to buy another car at the moment.

Out of curiosity, for your grocery delivery who are you using (if you don't mind sharing)? The wife and I signed up for Shipt recently, and have used it once so far for our weekly shopping. I'm not sure what I think about it yet.

I don’t live in OKC, but I’m car-less in Denton, bike everywhere, and absolutely love the lifestyle. Denton has worse infrastructure than OKC, but does have regional trains to the rest of the metro, which I use often despite the awful design of A-Train/DART. Just figured I’d share.

haha! I also don't ever drive and am selling my car this weekend. The costs don't justify keeping it around. I primarily bike.
Keep in mind, I am not trying to advocate for OKC to only retain the personal car as the only mode available. I would love to see life made easy for those who don't want a car. I was only responding to the post asking why parking exists in this area. It's about practicability. Evidently those that live here see that too. Even in Deep Deuce I bet over 90% of people drive(probably 99%). If you live in OKC car free that is awesome and I am glad some do so it creates more demand for the lifestyle, but sacrifices are made in this city to do that.

haha! I also don't ever drive and am selling my car this weekend. The costs don't justify keeping it around. I primarily bike.

Wow, good for you.

Even though we have a very long way to go in terms of bike lanes and mass transit, at least going carless is an option if you live in the core and are willing to deal with the inconvenience.

It sure is fun to think about how much money you could save by ditching a car completely. And how it pretty much forces you to experience your surroundings in a different way.

Wow, good for you.

Even though we have a very long way to go in terms of bike lanes and mass transit, at least going carless is an option if you live in the core and are willing to deal with the inconvenience.

It sure is fun to think about how much money you could save by ditching a car completely. And how it pretty much forces you to experience your surroundings in a different way.

A car has pretty much become optional with little inconvenience in many parts of LA-- especially Hollywood, Studio City, Santa Monica, and Downtown. Once the LAX LRT line opens it will create a new world. The stores are already there. OKC lacks major retail and grocer no matter how much anyone wants to act like these tiny market are sufficient, they are not! Hopefully we a get Trader Joes or Whole Foods downtown soon along with a CVS and a City Target would do wonders in getting people out of their cars who live downtown.

I don’t live in OKC, but I’m car-less in Denton, bike everywhere, and absolutely love the lifestyle. Denton has worse infrastructure than OKC, but does have regional trains to the rest of the metro, which I use often despite the awful design of A-Train/DART. Just figured I’d share.

What are your issues with DART? I love the DART system. My only complaint is it still sort of requires a car just to get to whatever DART station in the suburbs. But I would imagine that's more the fault each city, right? DART doesn't have much power and can only be built where it is allowed.


Edit - I'd kill to have the DART trains here in the OKC metro. I'd ditch my car in a heartbeat if OKC were to expand the streetcar or a railine to Edmond. Unfortunately I bought a house in Edmond. Ugh.

I haven't driven my car since February

Keep in mind, I am not trying to advocate for OKC to only retain the personal car as the only mode available. I would love to see life made easy for those who don't want a car. I was only responding to the post asking why parking exists in this area. It's about practicability. Evidently those that live here see that too. Even in Deep Deuce I bet over 90% of people drive(probably 99%). If you live in OKC car free that is awesome and I am glad some do so it creates more demand for the lifestyle, but sacrifices are made in this city to do that.

Just want to clarify, I was saying haha because I thought your post was funny, not out of spite! :)

I haven't driven my car since February

Why do you still have it??

Wow, good for you.

Even though we have a very long way to go in terms of bike lanes and mass transit, at least going carless is an option if you live in the core and are willing to deal with the inconvenience.

It sure is fun to think about how much money you could save by ditching a car completely. And how it pretty much forces you to experience your surroundings in a different way.

For me, it isn't an inconvenience at all, but I've set up my life so that it isn't. I understand that it isn't realistic for a lot of people here to go carless. For me, though it's been a huge improvement in my quality of life, but most people probably think I'm weird

Why do you still have it??

It's pretty old, not worth much, maybe a K, might get rid of it at some point.

What are your issues with DART? I love the DART system. My only complaint is it still sort of requires a car just to get to whatever DART station in the suburbs. But I would imagine that's more the fault each city, right? DART doesn't have much power and can only be built where it is allowed.


Edit - I'd kill to have the DART trains here in the OKC metro. I'd ditch my car in a heartbeat if OKC were to expand the streetcar or a railine to Edmond. Unfortunately I bought a house in Edmond. Ugh.

My problem is with the A-Train. I shouldn't have included DART, which isn't perfect but pretty decent. The A-Train connects to DART's Green Line and is built as a commuter rail for car drivers. Every stop is a park-and-ride. They don't run at night. The A-Train ignores pedestrians, businesses, downtowns, and every other thing that would make it enhance the walkability of the north side of the metro. DART's green line isn't much better until it reaches Victory Station at the American Airlines Center, but other parts of DART are better.

I'm about to move back to OKC (into Wheeler, in fact) from the east coast. I haven't had a car since I left OKC and I've saved a ton of money. I don't plan on buying one when I return. I hope some of the transit money goes toward bus routes up and down Western. Until then, I plan to bike most places.

I haven't driven my car since February

Whose car have you been driving?

I take the bus now, gets to most places I need to go.

Also ride my bike sometimes.

Wow, good for you.

Even though we have a very long way to go in terms of bike lanes and mass transit, at least going carless is an option if you live in the core and are willing to deal with the inconvenience.

It sure is fun to think about how much money you could save by ditching a car completely. And how it pretty much forces you to experience your surroundings in a different way.

Here in Vancouver and Seattle, we have Car2Go (https://www.car2go.com/US/en/#174725). Think Bird or Lime but it's a car. And usually they are Mercedes CA250 vehicles or the like.

I'd love to see them in OKC as well, that would alleviate the inconvenience of not owning a car but to have one on demand for the times you need.

We used to have a local company called TimeCar, but they went out of business. I _thought_ ZipCar was in Norman. Def wish they'd come to DOKC. I'd be cool with Car2Go as well.

^^^ L.A. has a car sharing program too. They are Mercede's Smart Car. I think it is called Blue L.A. or something like that.

https://www.bluela.com/

we have Zip car as well.

I wrote to Car2Go, let's see their response.

https://kfor.com/2019/08/27/caught-on-camera-fight-at-okc-middle-school-injures-teacher/

This was posted in the OKC Public School thread, but thought it might be useful to discuss here as well because of the charter school discussion. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the Pathway to Greatness or sending your kids to OKC Public Schools.

We used to have a local company called TimeCar, but they went out of business. I _thought_ ZipCar was in Norman. Def wish they'd come to DOKC. I'd be cool with Car2Go as well.

Zip car website lists OU as a site.

Car Sharing: An Alternative to Car Rental with Zipcar
https://www.zipcar.com/?&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIm4G83b2p5AIVTNbACh0zNwTPEAAYASAA EgKASvD_BwE