Blighted? It was only abandoned and left sitting there ~*because*~ they did nothing with it when they bought it. They closed the airpark in mid-2005 and it was sold in early 2006....

Blighted? It was only abandoned and left sitting there ~*because*~ they did nothing with it when they bought it. They closed the airpark in mid-2005 and it was sold in early 2006....

Should have clarified, the general area being blighted, not necessarily just the air park.

Gotcha.

https://twitter.com/bdhumphreys/status/933556969415340032

Renderings are on Wheeler District Housing Twitter account. Only one rendering though. Are there any more?

All floor plans and prices are now up on their website.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/

I'm not loving any of these designs.

So I could sell my 3300 sq ft house in one of SW OKC's most prestigious neighborhoods at market value buy one that is 1/2 the size in the Wheeler District?
I'm sure I'm not the demo they're looking for but I have a hard time seeing this be successful at those prices. Also, weren't there supposed to be some affordable options?

All floor plans and prices are now up on their website.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/

Where are these homes located within the Wheeler District? I would like to drive by to see what context they will be in. Is there a site plan or map?

So I could sell my 3300 sq ft house in one of SW OKC's most prestigious neighborhoods at market value buy one that is 1/2 the size in the Wheeler District?
I'm sure I'm not the demo they're looking for but I have a hard time seeing this be successful at those prices. Also, weren't there supposed to be some affordable options?

I know the long-time Oklahomans still can't grasp this, but under $200K is an affordable option, especially in this neighborhood.

nm

I know the long-time Oklahomans still can't grasp this, but under $200K is an affordable option, especially in this neighborhood.

I was struck by the 'especially in this neighborhood' part of your statement. It seems to me the question is the following:

Could you buy a house at, say, SW 12 and Douglas, on the west edge of the Wheeler District, gut it, and rebuild to the standards of the eventual Wheeler homes, all for under $200K?

I don't know the answer, but my guess is 'maybe'.

I was struck by the 'especially in this neighborhood' part of your statement. It seems to me the question is the following:

Could you buy a house at, say, SW 12 and Douglas, on the west edge of the Wheeler District, gut it, and rebuild to the standards of the eventual Wheeler homes, all for under $200K?

I don't know the answer, but my guess is 'maybe'.


A big part of what you'll get at Wheeler are the amenities, which also have to be factored into the cost equation.

While not looking to move or purchase in the foreseeable future , I am surprised that metal roofs are on these homes.

A big part of what you'll get at Wheeler are the amenities, which also have to be factored into the cost equation.

Have they announced any firm plans regarding the amenities, retail, etc. that will be going in? Have to imagine having more than conceptual plans for this part of the development will be critical in getting "early adopters" to buy houses, as would conformation that at least a portion of the amenities will be complete alongside the initial housing stock as opposed to a year or more after the initial residents move in.

^

They plan to have a restaurant / cafe in the old terminal building early on, plus bike and pedestrian paths and parks, then much more mixed use as the project develops.

A big part of what you'll get at Wheeler are the amenities, which also have to be factored into the cost equation.

I agree. I guess my other question is what's to stop someone from walking across the street, so to speak, to access (some of) the amenities? I mean the mixed-use and trail aspects of the development are going to be public, I assume?

Please don't use logic on 'em.

I agree. I guess my other question is what's to stop someone from walking across the street, so to speak, to access (some of) the amenities? I mean the mixed-use and trail aspects of the development are going to be public, I assume?

Yes, but you could say that about any development.

All this will definitely benefit those living adjacent but there is a pretty big difference in living in the development rather than near it, especially since that neighboring area is pretty rough.

The big issue with that type of neighborhood is that they change very slowly (due to hundreds of separate owners) if at all. There are plenty of people who want to live in a new, clean, controlled environment. For those who don't care about those things, then that neighborhood to the west would be a good option and I'm sure you'll start to see some redevelopment over there.

^

They plan to have a restaurant / cafe in the old terminal building early on, plus bike and pedestrian paths and parks, then much more mixed use as the project develops.

Also they've been pretty vocal about their desire to build a bilingual school (most likely a charter, I think) in the new development.

If you didn't know and wanted to talk to someone in person, Wheeler has a booth up at the pop up shops in midtown with hard copies of all the plans and someone there to talk to you about the vision.

All this will definitely benefit those living adjacent but there is a pretty big difference in living in the development rather than near it, especially since that neighboring area is pretty rough.

The big issue with that type of neighborhood is that they change very slowly (due to hundreds of separate owners) if at all. There are plenty of people who want to live in a new, clean, controlled environment. For those who don't care about those things, then that neighborhood to the west would be a good option and I'm sure you'll start to see some redevelopment over there.

Definitely, and I think that's something great about Wheeler -- I genuinely hope (and believe) it will kick-start redevelopment just to the west of the old Airpark, as well as further south and east in and around Capitol Hill. And I think you probably could sacrifice amenities, quality of streets/trails, etc., and live near Wheeler for less or much less money, while still benefiting from the slower adjacent redevelopment.

Definitely, and I think that's something great about Wheeler -- I genuinely hope (and believe) it will kick-start redevelopment just to the west of the old Airpark, as well as further south and east in and around Capitol Hill. And I think you probably could sacrifice amenities, quality of streets/trails, etc., and live near Wheeler for less or much less money, while still benefiting from the slower adjacent redevelopment.

You could but I've scouted that neighborhood and to call it rough is being kind. Some of the streets are barely paved with no curbs, very small houses without garages, small lots.

Keep in mind there is Rotary Park immediately to the west as well, so it's not like there aren't already amenities. There are some newish homes on both 17th and 18th but the lots are very narrow, which is why there are no garages for the existing homes.

Also, at least for now, there is a fence all along the shared boundary with Wheeler.

They plan to have a restaurant / cafe in the old terminal building early on, plus bike and pedestrian paths and parks, then much more mixed use as the project develops.


Also they've been pretty vocal about their desire to build a bilingual school (most likely a charter, I think) in the new development.

I suppose this is in some ways reinforcing my point, as this is essentially what I've heard from the beginning. At least the restaurant in the old terminal is reasonably specific, but if I were considering moving to the Wheeler District (which I may be if I hadn't bought a house a short time ago) I would expect detailed site plans by phase for the entire development before taking such a big chance in an otherwise questionable housing area, even acknowledging such plans would be subject to change. I'm assuming those plans are not yet public because they are at least partially letting housing interest drive the overall development design, but it would still be nice to see. I think and hope Wheeler District will be successful but I won't be surprised if they have trouble selling a significant number of homes prior to providing a greater level of detail.

I think some people are underestimating the psychological difference of living in a neighborhood with mixed-used amenities and next to that neighborhood. When you can walk out your door and there's a continuity in design and infrastructure to a cafe or coffee shop, you tend to feel like its your coffee shop which can lead to spending more time there and building deeper relationships through those public/private spaces. When you live next to the neighborhood, you might be just as likely to jump in your car to try a different place. Some people have to be initial investors and people buying into Wheeler are committing to a neighborhood, not just a home. Yes, they won't see all the benefits until the development grows, but there's no other way to do it. Heck, Hill residents waited 10 years for their community center to be built. So, yes, you can try to live somewhere else for cheaper and then stop by the Wheeler District when you want, but you'll just be a visitor, not a resident.

I think some people are underestimating the psychological difference of living in a neighborhood with mixed-used amenities and next to that neighborhood. When you can walk out your door and there's a continuity in design and infrastructure to a cafe or coffee shop, you tend to feel like its your coffee shop which can lead to spending more time there and building deeper relationships through those public/private spaces. When you live next to the neighborhood, you might be just as likely to jump in your car to try a different place. Some people have to be initial investors and people buying into Wheeler are committing to a neighborhood, not just a home. Yes, they won't see all the benefits until the development grows, but there's no other way to do it. Heck, Hill residents waited 10 years for their community center to be built. So, yes, you can try to live somewhere else for cheaper and then stop by the Wheeler District when you want, but you'll just be a visitor, not a resident.

This is a completely fair point, but at least early residents at the Hill were still only a couple blocks away from Bricktown, and just a block from Deep Deuce (albeit in a situation where both neighborhoods were nothing like they are today). On the other hand, Wheeler is next to literally nothing, so early adopters really really really have to hope that the entire development pans out. Despite my recent posts here, I love the concept of Wheeler and I hope it's a smashing success and engenders smarter urban development all throughout central Oklahoma City.

This is a completely fair point, but at least early residents at the Hill were still only a couple blocks away from Bricktown, and just a block from Deep Deuce (albeit in a situation where both neighborhoods were nothing like they are today). On the other hand, Wheeler is next to literally nothing, so early adopters really really really have to hope that the entire development pans out. Despite my recent posts here, I love the concept of Wheeler and I hope it's a smashing success and engenders smarter urban development all throughout central Oklahoma City.

I think if these are successful it shows how much demand there is for this product in OKC.

I have talked to a lot of folks who are no longer interested because of the price per square foot and current school situation. An urban realtor friend of mine thinks the prices are very unrealistic for the market. I am envious of those who can choose to live there in the first phase.

I have talked to a lot of folks who are no longer interested because of the price per square foot and current school situation. An urban realtor friend of mine thinks the prices are very unrealistic for the market. I am envious of those who can choose to live there in the first phase.

Were these now disinterested folks on the block party list? My urban realtor friend appears to be excited... interesting.

My guess is there is a correlation between one's ability to afford a home in Wheeler with one's level of excitement.

Someone bring back the like button PLEASE

Everyone can afford a house in Wheeler. I just might be under 1000 sqft.

If this is "urban, why are all the homes detached and look like they are in the country?

Real estate prices are always completely driven by the market.

Will be very interesting to see how these sell and how the prices evolve.

Everyone can afford a house in Wheeler. I just might be under 1000 sqft.

Doubt that since the median income in OK is $48k.

If this is "urban, why are all the homes detached and look like they are in the country?
Yeah I’m not a fan of the homes being detached. Not a huge fan of the designs but I don’t hate it. I wish they would have stuck more to the European looking design in the initial renderings.

Same here. I personally like the suburban detached home with garden property that I am living in, in the suburbs of course. But I would have expected this to start with townhomes, row-houses, etc. What is the density going to be with these houses?

If this is "urban, why are all the homes detached and look like they are in the country?

There are plenty of detached homes in urban environments.

https://image.ibb.co/gTkNnm/chicago_houses.png

These look like walkup houses with narrow lots and rear alley access. They will follow the traditional neighborhood development model but with more amenities to walk to, I suppose.

If this is "urban, why are all the homes detached and look like they are in the country?

So...the answer is that this is not specifically and only an "urban" development. It is a neighborhood developed using the precepts of New Urbanism, which is a holistic approach that addresses everything from a dense urban core to even rural development and natural, completely undeveloped land. I think most people still don't totally "get" what is going on here, and probably won't until they see it in person, barring their own research and/or indoctrination. From the website for the Congress for the New Urbanism (https://www.cnu.org/resources/what-new-urbanism):


New Urbanism is a planning and development approach based on the principles of how cities and towns had been built for the last several centuries: walkable blocks and streets, housing and shopping in close proximity, and accessible public spaces. In other words: New Urbanism focuses on human-scaled urban design.

The principles, articulated in the Charter of the New Urbanism, were developed to offer alternatives to the sprawling, single-use, low-density patterns typical of post-WWII development, which have been shown to inflict negative economic, health, and environmental impacts on communities.

These design and development principles can be applied to new development, urban infill and revitalization, and preservation. They can be applied to all scales of development in the full range of places including rural Main Streets, booming suburban areas, urban neighborhoods, dense city centers, and even entire regions.

I would encourage anyone who is interested or who cares to critique this particular development to visit that and other websites and develop an understanding of exactly what is being attempted here. And I don't mean any offense to anyone here; I'm just saying that this is something entirely new in OKC and that we should all attempt to understand what they are striving for, especially before trying to poke holes in the complex effort the developers have undertaken.

Another page on that site gives a visual example of the New Urbanism approach to all transects (https://www.cnu.org/resources/tools):

https://www.cnu.org/sites/default/files/urban_rural_hi.jpg

As the development matures, the projects at its core will take on a much more urban character than these initial homes, but even these are being developed in such a way that they are HUMAN-SCALED, and encourage walking/biking within the district rather than driving. THAT is the most important element here.

I'm curious where this Urban Realtor designation came from? :)

There are plenty of detached homes in urban environments.

https://image.ibb.co/gTkNnm/chicago_houses.png

That photo is what most people I think expect from an urban area. That looks like my street from when I was a kid in Maryland.

The designs the Wheeler people have put our don’t resemble that at all.

I can see a resemblance of these designs, and I could picture those homes this close together. I think the problem is that all the pictures and renderings are in isolation and they make it hard to visualize how these buildings are actually going to look next to each other (or even how close they will be next to each other).

Am I missing a post or something? I feel like I am the only one who hasn't seen the Wheeler home renderings that everyone keeps referencing.

Am I missing a post or something? I feel like I am the only one who hasn't seen the Wheeler home renderings that everyone keeps referencing.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/

It'd be nice to see a streetscape rendering with those designs so we can see how the units work together.

The renderings remind me of some of the off-campus student housing for OU students in Norman at Aspen Heights and The Cottages:

14299
14300

Reading all the posts about the lack of affordability led me to think that the asking prices were $300/SF. Looks like $200/SF, which is reasonable for a new home in an area with amenities. Looks like the homes will be similar to Carlton Landing, which has received market acceptance. I admit the surrounding area is rough, but I have to hand it to them - they are trying to make a difference.

didn't see anything on the site about hoa fees... i wonder how much those will factor into the affordability equation.

That photo is what most people I think expect from an urban area. That looks like my street from when I was a kid in Maryland.

The designs the Wheeler people have put our don’t resemble that at all.

The homes in the renderings look like all the neighborhoods surrounding downtown (Heritage, Mesta, Gatewood, etc). Not sure what your point is other than to be needlessly critical of another development not coming to Tulsa.

didn't see anything on the site about hoa fees... i wonder how much those will factor into the affordability equation.

There's going to be HOA fees? Its not a gated community, it will have public roads (that we are paying for), so unless theres a clubhouse, pool, etc., I wouldnt have guessed there would be HOA fees.

Won't there be green spaces and things?

There's going to be HOA fees? Its not a gated community, it will have public roads (that we are paying for), so unless theres a clubhouse, pool, etc., I wouldnt have guessed there would be HOA fees.

I pay HOA fees in my neighborhood. No club house and no pool. There is a massive block long brick wall that we have insurance coverage on (liability in case someone runs into it), plus pay for landscape upkeep at the entrances.

The homes in the renderings look like all the neighborhoods surrounding downtown (Heritage, Mesta, Gatewood, etc). Not sure what your point is other than to be needlessly critical of another development not coming to Tulsa.


Not really. A couple of the models are similar in style to Heritage or Mesta homes. Most are not. I don't see anything that looks like Gatewood. Are you familiar with Gatewood, or just throwing it out there because it's an old neighborhood you've heard of?

Either way, Heritage and Mesta aren't very "urban" either, by other cities' standards. If that's what you were hoping for, I'm sure you're disappointed. From the Wheeler group's perspective, I'm sure theyre balancing modern urbanism with what's marketable to people currently living in suburban homes in Belle Isle or Edmond.

Neither approach is wrong, just different. But wishing this was more urban is definitely not being "unnecessarily critical."

143021430314304

Build out as planned is quite urban... Phase I is just a small portion of overall development. Additionally, as someone noted, the initial housing plans are shown in singular-home format; you're looking at individual homes not rendered together. Look at the plat map from the original sale, and you'll see that the neighborhood is quite dense. Lots along Runway are generally 35' x 93'. Compare that to my home in Lincoln Terrace with a 70' x 140' lot...

Those renderings are quite urban, yes. My understanding is little or none of the current plans look like that. Everything in that rendering is a condo/rowhouse. I can't find a current map on their site, but doesn't everything in Wheeler now sit on its own lot?

Those renderings are quite urban, yes. My understanding is little or none of the current plans look like that. Everything in that rendering is a condo/rowhouse. I can't find a current map on their site, but doesn't everything in Wheeler now sit on its own lot?

No. Only Phase 1, and really only Phase 1, of that, is under consideration for sale at this point. The other phases and portions will come later. Those will include condos/rowhouses/apartments, and more single family homes. If you look at the rendering, you can actually see what is for sale now as well, tighter-packed single family detached dwellings along the old runway (the tree-lined blvd).

Is Phase 1 accurately represented in the renderings?

Sure, eventually, but when does Phase 2 start? Before the close of the decade? The discussion above was about the houses for sale today.

Is Phase 1 accurately represented in the renderings?

Phase 1 is barely visible in the middle image. All of the housing along Runway is essentially the same as Phase 1, I believe.