Good luck to anyone who wants to unring that bell. Here is the best image I have ever seen of it's path before the corp went to work on it.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/maps/1911planningmaplarge.jpg

http://www.greatmirror.com/images/masters/019084.jpg

IMO, I don't like the ideas of roundabouts.
Also, my dad is a firefighter and hates them, they delay respond times. Slowing me down when I want to get from point A to point B, not fun.

IMO, I don't like the ideas of roundabouts.
Also, my dad is a firefighter and hates them, they delay respond times. Slowing me down when I want to get from point A to point B, not fun.

We've been over this 100X on the Norman thread regarding emergency response times so I'll cut to the chase - you can tell your dad he is wrong. Round-a-bouts actually increase response times, and better yet, due to their much better safety record vs. a right angle intersection they eliminate the need for a lot of the responses at all - which is probably what your dad actually hates.

Here is 32 pages of talking about it.
http://www.okctalk.com/norman/34327-lindsey-street.html

And to reiterate a point I made in that thread:

Even if a fire truck is going thru a green intersection, they still slow down before entering. And if the intersection is red, they will will slow down almost to a stop before entering.

I've never seen an emergency vehicle blow through any intersection regardless of light color.

IMO, I don't like the ideas of roundabouts.
Also, my dad is a firefighter and hates them, they delay respond times. Slowing me down when I want to get from point A to point B, not fun.

Can't wait for post #14...

The last time (that we know about obvs) an ambulance blew through an intersection without slowing down, maybe a couple years ago, they hit a car and flipped the ambulance and some people (in the car) died I think...

We've been over this 100X on the Norman thread regarding emergency response times so I'll cut to the chase - you can tell your dad he is wrong. Round-a-bouts actually increase response times, and better yet, due to their much better safety record vs. a right angle intersection they eliminate the need for a lot of the responses at all - which is probably what your dad actually hates.

Here is 32 pages of talking about it.
http://www.okctalk.com/norman/34327-lindsey-street.html

This is hilarious! He is actually a Norman Firefighter. Truly ironic, he's working with all of the parties involved on the Lindsey Street project.

Think what you want, the inconvenience of going around the roundabout instead of a straight line WILL slow you down.
"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line." -Archimedes

My point is not about the aesthetics or what you want within the district, however, it is simply that it's an inconvenience.

Can't wait for post #14...

I rarely post my opinion, I prefer to read others. Additionally, I have been reading for about 3 years but finally signed up a couple of months ago. Moved to Stillwater and wanted to provide more updates about this booming metropolis.

Just like the straight line firetrucks make thru intersections that are queued up?

If they have to slow down and go down the opposite direction lanes, then slow to a stop and honk their horn, then navigate the intersection, and then back around to the correct direction lanes, how is that a straight line?

With a roundabout, no one will be stopped, and all traffic is in a constant flow. No chance for head on accidents, no chance to be sideswiped by vehicles not paying attention.

Pretending that firetrucks don't get delayed while going through intersections isn't even a particularly good joke.

Just this morning I saw one on Broadway in Edmond navigate the 15th street intersection going southbound do exactly what catch22 is describing. It slowed down, changed lanes over to the turn lanes, and then sped back up once it had gotten past all of the cars that were stopped at the light. It might as well have been going through a traffic circle given the number of turns it had to make to get past the cars.

This is hilarious! He is actually a Norman Firefighter. Truly ironic, he's working with all of the parties involved on the Lindsey Street project.

Think what you want, the inconvenience of going around the roundabout instead of a straight line WILL slow you down.
"The shortest distance between two points is a straight line." -Archimedes

My point is not about the aesthetics or what you want within the district, however, it is simply that it's an inconvenience.

I held your same opinion until I lived where roundabouts are common. I don't know how but roundabouts are truly more efficient at moving traffic than stop lights. It's crazy.

Just like the straight line firetrucks make thru intersections that are queued up?

If they have to slow down and go down the opposite direction lanes, then slow to a stop and honk their horn, then navigate the intersection, and then back around to the correct direction lanes, how is that a straight line?

With a roundabout, no one will be stopped, and all traffic is in a constant flow. No chance for head on accidents, no chance to be sideswiped by vehicles not paying attention.I've had to completely stop plenty of times at the roundabout on 10th and that is a low traffic intersection.

You're right. Let me clarify. People won't be queued up for whole minutes waiting to clear. Roundabouts work just like motor-driven pumps when it comes to pushing traffic through. Openings in the centrifugal flow are immediately filled by the first available driver.

For example, there are four inputs and four outputs, and all four can flow at the same time. A standard intersection can only select one or two flows at a given time. Empty spots in the flow from one direction cannot be filled except for right turn on red, yet a roundabout can handle any input and output combination. It doesn't matter what direction you need to go, open spots in the roundabout will meter you through.

Just like a pump, and standard intersections work like four way selector valves - only one flow per selection. One input one output.

I held your same opinion until I lived where roundabouts are common. I don't know how but roundabouts are truly more efficient at moving traffic than stop lights. It's crazy.

Truth be told, back in the dark ages I felt the same way also, mostly because they had them in Europe and since America was better than Europe our method of traffic control must be better - even if it wasn't. Then I got smarter.

I've had to completely stop plenty of times at the roundabout on 10th and that is a low traffic intersection.

have you ever had to stop at a stoplight?

These are from Will. Snaps of the presentation of the drafts formed from the charette:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler4.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler5.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler6.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler7.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler8.jpg

I like the looks of those. Shops and restaurants in the first floors and apartments up top would be cool. Could almost call it Oklahoma City's Little Europe because of the European feel to it. Not sure if it was in this thread, or another, but there was talk about how there's nothing really unique about Oklahoma City, this could do it, if done right. I would make room for a bigger entertainment district though. Down by the river at the ferris wheel.

have you ever had to stop at a stoplight?

Have you ever had to stop at a Five Stack?

A few more from Will:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler9.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler10.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler11.jpg

You know what is glaringly missing from all these plans?

A soccer stadium that we all assumed was going there.

Well let me say, I am as giddy as a school girl over this. Also, as Pete said, a soccer stadium would be ideal.

Holy density:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler12.jpg

Holy density:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler12.jpg

I am so in love with this development.

Fabulous!

A few more from Will:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler9.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler10.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler11.jpg




Unbelievably cool!

Building this would redefine our city. Let's do it now!

You know what is glaringly missing from all these plans?

A soccer stadium that we all assumed was going there.

Yeah, that is odd. I would have sworn I saw one in some of the pictures that Will tweeted earlier in the week/over the weekend.

I am so in love with this development.

Wowowowowow

Yeah, that is odd. I would have sworn I saw one in some of the pictures that Will tweeted earlier in the week/over the weekend.

I just traded texts with Will because he's been there for almost all the planning, and he said a soccer stadium was never even mentioned.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be added in at some point.

I would live there in a heartbeat.

I might as well, although it would be nice if there was quick access to downtown. How about a gondolier like they have on the Grand Canal in Venice who does back and forth trips all day? Or perhaps we could have a sky tram like they used to have at the zoo. It's been so long since I've been there that I don't know if it still exists.

I have a feeling this will be a prime target for a streetcar expansion in the future. In fact I'd bet money on it.

have you ever had to stop at a stoplight?what difference does that make? I'm talking about roundabouts. Roundabouts are p,ay for certain places, but it everywhere. I'd support roundabouts here.

Building this would redefine our city. Let's do it now!i agree! Wish the pay wild start construction tomorrow lol

Very exciting but you'll have to be patient:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BstNumoCcAA6Bow.jpg:large

Patient isn't in vocabulary! ;)

I hate to mention a dirty word (cars), but it's difficult to tell from the depictions. Would must of the housing areas have alleyways with parking in the rear?

I just traded texts with Will because he's been there for almost all the planning, and he said a soccer stadium was never even mentioned.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be added in at some point.

I think I figured out my confusion. I saw this tweet/pic (https://twitter.com/OUIQC/status/489092473294053377) go by in a retweet at one point and assumed the field on the west side was the soccer stadium, but after looking it up there isn't any stadium bits to it, just park space.


Great update on what former IQC director @bdhumphreys is up to in OKC: Innovative brainstorming sessions could produce a new type of development along Oklahoma River | News OK (http://newsok.com/innovative-brainstorming-sessions-could-produce-a-new-type-of-development-along-oklahoma-river/article/4998781) … via @stevelackmeyer
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsmbAwoCQAEeCaK.jpg

what difference does that make? I'm talking about roundabouts. Roundabouts are p,ay for certain places, but it everywhere. I'd support roundabouts here.

On 10th (where you mentioned having to had stop) the alternative to a roundabout at either Walker or Shartel would only be a stoplight, which unless prioritizing the way you want to go is more likely to require stop and any stop will frequently be of a longer duration.

On 10th (where you mentioned having to had stop) the alternative to a roundabout at either Walker or Shartel would only be a stoplight, which unless prioritizing the way you want to go is more likely to require stop and any stop will frequently be of a longer duration.I'm not saying a stoplight would be better there. I like the roundabout honestly.

From Steve.

Ferris wheel, private school could appear in Wheeler District | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/ferris-wheel-private-school-could-appear-in-wheeler-district/article/5004980)


A Ferris wheel and a private school are both likely to be among the first developments in the new Wheeler neighborhood emerging from a week-long planning charrette that ended Wednesday night.


Humphreys said he is targeting a start of early phase construction next year on the west side of Western Avenue with the first homes being completed in 2016. Talks also are underway with operators of a school and early possible commercial tenants.

Will there be any crossover with the downtown school, if we do end up with multiple downtown private schools, it might be more cost effective to have it a private school district

Will there be any crossover with the downtown school, if we do end up with multiple downtown private schools, it might be more cost effective to have it a private school district

The new downtown school is not a private school.

Behind the Scenes: Wheeler District Charrette (http://feeds.newsok.tv/services/player/bcpid1409163346001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAACqD3ms~,3I1DNCm 2Ps-CThmg-h9y_xgDp8EMjwpI&bctid=3679229165001)

Behind the Scenes: Animating Designs of the Wheeler District Charrette (http://feeds.newsok.tv/services/player/bcpid1409163346001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAACqD3ms~,3I1DNCm 2Ps-CThmg-h9y_xgDp8EMjwpI&bctid=3679358098001)

Full presentation

Wheeler District Charrette Presentation (http://feeds.newsok.tv/services/player/bcpid1409163346001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAACqD3ms~,3I1DNCm 2Ps-CThmg-h9y_xgDp8EMjwpI&bctid=3679158086001)

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2928/14672269204_5f40ab399b_b.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3907/14674289102_e856fe5033_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2927/14694481533_7898db09da_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2902/14674598025_30443e4163_b.jpg

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3909/14694481173_bd7e62c941_b.jpg

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2895/14487921200_66575443eb_b.jpg

The new downtown school is not a private school.

Oh, that is right, it is a Charter school, I forget the difference

I just traded texts with Will because he's been there for almost all the planning, and he said a soccer stadium was never even mentioned.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be added in at some point.

I hate to take issue here as Will was indeed there not only for the kickoff charette session and last night's presentation (like me), but was also as far as I could tell at EVERY DAY of the design studio volunteering his photography skills and doing a great job of documenting the events as they unfolded. But when we were given instructions for the public charette session that kicked everything off last week, we were clearly told that a stadium for the Energy was a long range possibility and that we could place it on our maps if we chose to.

This looks very exciting, but considering I'll be 80 years old by the time it looks like it does in the picture, going by their timeline, I am not holding my breath. I wish somebody with deep pockets could begin construction and get at least the core of the neighborhood including the ferris wheel up quickly. This needs to be done NOW, before the next financial crisis.

I also think it is super-important to point out that the planners stated over and over that these drawings are DRAFT conceptuals and that all is subject to change. In other words, don't get too married to things on a detailed level, though in broad strokes this shows the direction in which they are headed. They are now going to be taking these documents back to their firms and honing them.

I do think it is worth noting that Blair said they DO want to get moving ASAP, and that he felt you could see some earth moving by the end of this year and could actually see people living in the first home in the district by 2016(!!).

This looks very exciting, but considering I'll be 80 years old by the time it looks like it does in the picture, going by their timeline, I am not holding my breath. I wish somebody with deep pockets could begin construction and get at least the core of the neighborhood including the ferris wheel up quickly. This needs to be done NOW, before the next financial crisis.

You're reading the timeline wrong. They are going to be very aggressive. They see the district being largely built within the next decade. By the way, they DO have deep pockets.

They also will be bringing in other investors and homebuilders, acting as developer. In this way, it is quite similar to a suburban development at the fringe.

Perhaps if you had participated in one of the many events in which they invited the public, rather than simply hurling stones from afar, you would have a better understanding of their intentions.

Maybe this is what will make KC or Dallas jealous.

^^^^^^

Thanks for changing your post. Just wait and see. It will set a new standard, not just for OKC, but for this part of the country.

That is ridiculously cool. God I hope it turns out like the renderings and doesn't get watered down or messed up with crappy out-of-place individual developments. I would find a way to move back to OKC from Tulsa just to live there.

At a conceptual level, this looks simply outstanding. Furthermore, the buy-in created through the shared design process seems to at minimum be revolutionary, but definitely extremely exciting to see. I really look forward to seeing this come to fruition... soooo amazing!

Although you can probably expect significant changes by the time it comes out of the ground it definitely won't be watered down. You can count on that for once.

I really believe this could become the new template for urban infill in OKC, and even perhaps could have some positive ripple effects in suburban development.

I hate to mention a dirty word (cars), but it's difficult to tell from the depictions. Would must of the housing areas have alleyways with parking in the rear?

Yes, most residential parking would be accessed via an alley, although I am sure on-street parking will be available. With this level of density retailers, merchants, and services can survive with just the people living within walking distance so they won't need a lot of public parking to make commerce viable - especially if it is well connected to mass transit.

What are the chances we can start calling this the Downton Airpark...

Who is the promoter of the DT Airpark concerts? Has there been any word on if they will set up shop somewhere else once this breaks ground?