I am sure this has been posted, but there are 31 pages and ill be damned if i look through em all. I was looking at a tulsa board, and an awful lot were upset because they say they paid some sort of tax. Not sure what they are talking about and how legit their argument is.

The Thunder get some tax credits for bringing quality jobs to Oklahoma. I'm sure that has something to do with it.

That's because the Tulsans' mindset is, "What's our is ours and what's yours is ours." They should consider the D-league 66ers as recompense for their begrudging miserly contribution.

This is the least of their worries. Their city is slowly dying.

I am sure this has been posted, but there are 31 pages and ill be damned if i look through em all. I was looking at a tulsa board, and an awful lot were upset because they say they paid some sort of tax. Not sure what they are talking about and how legit their argument is.

No need to read 31 pages when the answer is often on page 1.

on a similar to related subject, has anyone ever considered (long term) a first class sports venue in Stroud halfway up the turnpike with light rail going from both okc and tulsa to the complex?

i have seen several on this board talk about major league sports other than basketball in the future. it seems to me that this would be the only way to make the market large enough.

Then the team would not be OKC but would be called Oklahoma. Just a thought that I am sure somebody has expressed before.

No need to read 31 pages when the answer is often on page 1.

LMFAO @ how ruined you are.

I think the main reason they are upset is because Mayor Mick came out and said he expects support coming from Tulsa like we had when the Hornets were here. Then we go off and name them the OKC Thunder, not the Oklahoma Thunder. Tulsans think "If you want our support, it needs to be named after the whole state." If the people living in the OKC area are the ones who paid the taxes to expand the Ford Center to house an NBA team, it should be named OKC Thunder. If it were a statewide tax, then I would be ok with Oklahoma Thunder.

Those Tulsans that are going to support the Thunder are going to support them regardless of whether "City" is in the name or not. For the most part those that whine and cry about the name weren't going to support the team anyway.

You don't see anyone from here complaining about the WNBA's Tulsa Shock (which, incidentally, opens its season tonight at BOk against the Minnesota Lynx).

As I mentioned on another thread; those people on the Tulsa Now forum wanted the team to be named Oklahoma for one reason--take Oklahoma City out of the equation so people just might think that team was based in Tulsa.

When they had the North American Soccer League Tulsa Roughnecks in the 80's they thought they were big time and had no problem claiming them as Tulsa's. When the USFL fail to secure a lease for Oklahoma Memorial Stadium the team flew northeast to Tulsa's then 41,000-seat Skelly Stadium.

Oklahoma Outlaws was to be the name if the team had stayed in Norman; before moving to Tulsa the name was already history.

Should an NFL fanchise happen upon us, I would have no problem calling it "Oklahoma" and making it a state team especially if the team played in Stroud or Oklahoma City. I wouldn't have no problem with the Thunder being called Oklahoma if Tulsa supported it as they did the Hornets.

Maybe Tulsa can lure an NHL franchise and call it Oklahoma; they would definitely need OKC's help to support a franchise of that magnitude.

OU officials found it difficult to say no to the Outlaws, so they proposed charging an unbelieveable amount for rent and they wanted over 50% of the gross food concessions and the team would have only been allowed to sign a three year lease. OU told them they that unless a stadium plan was in place to house the team they didn't want to get into sharing Memorial Stadium and supporting professional football.

Very few people "want" the name to be Oklahoma instead of Oklahoma City, and I doubt anyone is upset over that.

What's upsetting is the $6 million plus per year in state taxes going to the team.

Very few people "want" the name to be Oklahoma instead of Oklahoma City, and I doubt anyone is upset over that.

What's upsetting is the $6 million plus per year in state taxes going to the team.



Why should the $6 million plus per year in state taxes going to the Thunder be upsetting?

There wasn't any money from the state coffers used to get the team and there is actually more money being put into the state by the players being here (just not as much as it could have been without the exemption). The economic impact that this team brings to Oklahoma City as well as the State of Oklahoma is small potatoes in what state and city stands to reap.

What did Tulsa do (financially) to attract this team to Oklahoma?

1. Oklahoma City businessmen purchased the franchise for $350 million which was valued at $280 million.
2. Oklahoma City voters built the Ford Center with no state money.
3. Oklahoma City voters extended a sales tax (MAPS for HOOPS) to make the arena more NBA ready for relocation.


This tax break came under state incentives for attracting this team here; so just like any other corporation of importance you give up something to get something. The Thunder didn't ask for this tax break; leadership wanted to add to insure the long-term ability of the NBA to remain in Oklahoma. Just as Mayor Mick Cornett summed it up saying that smart cities know what it takes to bring a major league franchise to their communities and help them to be successful.

How was this any different from when AA expanded its Tulsa maintenance facility under the Quality Jobs Program?

it's no different Laramie. It's called, "Little Man's Syndrome" and it is because the Thunder was a success.

If the team sucked, Im sure there would be NO real noise coming from Tulsa about anything, other than the usual "OKC sucks, and so does their bball team...." But since the team is good and has a promising future, there are SOME up there would would like it to masquerade as theirs - particularly with this 'desire' of theirs for home games. That combined with the name "Oklahoma Thunder" and most idiots in America would assume the team was based in Tulsa. ...

This is nothing less than everything Tulsa has done in the past, taking all of the limelight for Oklahoma while shunning the much larger state capital city. In the past, OKC sat back and let it happen - but NOW - OKC is running the show and it is OKC who is putting up the money to make this happen.

Like you said, the state didn't GIVE OKC or the Thunder anything, the ONLY thing that the state allowed was the Quality Jobs exemption to apply to the upper percentile of the player's salaries. As you have mentioned, these salaries/players WERE NOT PREVIOUSLY IN OKLAHOMA...... SO IT IS STILL A GAIN TO THE STATE DESPITE THE $6M OR SO DOLLARS THE STATE C O U L D H A V E BEEN RECEIVING WITHOUT APPLYING QUALITY JOBS. ........ And like you said, this is no different than AA or all of the other expansions/relocations that Tulsa had enjoyed under the program.

Is there any way somebody can explain this to those idiots up there who are supposedly much smarter than us in hickville?

This is the least of their worries. Their city is slowly dying.
This is sooooo far from the truth


That's because the Tulsans' mindset is, "What's our is ours and what's yours is ours."
yep


take Oklahoma City out of the equation so people just might think that team was based in Tulsa.
yep


Maybe Tulsa can lure an NHL franchise and call it Oklahoma
will NEVER happen, not that Tulsa will not lure an NHL team, but that it will not be called "Oklahoma ______"

I am sure this has been posted, but there are 31 pages and ill be damned if i look through em all. I was looking at a tulsa board, and an awful lot were upset because they say they paid some sort of tax. Not sure what they are talking about and how legit their argument is.

if you think about it, it makes since considering that most NBA teams are named after a city, and not a state.

there are a few exceptions: jazz, warriors, pacers, t-wolves, nets.

besides, if our team was called by its state name, rather than by city, then tulsa would cry foul that the stadium is located in downtown okc and not downtown tulsa. then they would want the stadium moved to chandler to be equidistant to both okc and tulsa fans.

who knows, maybe tulsa will get an nhl expansion team someday, and then okc will raise our own gripes.

tulsans are a rather eccentric lot. i find that i have to often times remind myself that they are oklahomans as well.

I think the main reason they are upset is because Mayor Mick came out and said he expects support coming from Tulsa like we had when the Hornets were here. Then we go off and name them the OKC Thunder, not the Oklahoma Thunder. Tulsans think "If you want our support, it needs to be named after the whole state." If the people living in the OKC area are the ones who paid the taxes to expand the Ford Center to house an NBA team, it should be named OKC Thunder. If it were a statewide tax, then I would be ok with Oklahoma Thunder.

you bring up an interesting aspect. ...NBA fans are everywhere!-worldwide. Just because someone lives in one place doesnt mean that they have to support the team thats closest to them. You can have someone living in Manhattan New York, who has never stepped foot in California, and yet be an avid fan of the Lakers, and care nothing for the Knicks.

What I find interesting is so many people here even care what anyone else thinks...

I really haven't seen any posts from Tulsans claiming to be upset.. I haven't really seen any Tulsans saying anything at all about the Thunder..

What I *do* see are a bunch of people stating what they *think* Tulsans are saying/thinking as if it were fact without anything to back them up..

Just more of the same from this forum..

Actually the Thunder's lack of embrace from the 918 set is more than talk forum banter.

Tulsa World: Tulsans slow to warm to Thunder (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=411&articleid=20100415_216_B1_OKLAHO446866&archive=yes)

and a follow up article....

Tulsa World: Stress about the game, not team's name (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=411&articleid=20100416_216_B1_ClayBe104225&archive=yes)

Also, read the comments in both, as they are pretty telling of some people's attitude about the situation.

Personally, I could really care less, and I wish some peope would give this whole team name thing a rest. Its a done deal. We have a good regional (and national) fanbase and will do so as long as the team has a good record and the players keep their egos in check. Yes,the team qualified under the state Quality Jobs program and got money, and the validity of that program is definitely up for debate. There are plenty of companies in Tulsa that got even bigger checks from the state. Should people from OKC be upset that Semgroup got Quality Jobs money only to fold?

it's no different Laramie. It's called, "Little Man's Syndrome" and it is because the Thunder was a success.

If the team sucked, Im sure there would be NO real noise coming from Tulsa about anything, other than the usual "OKC sucks, and so does their bball team...." But since the team is good and has a promising future, there are SOME up there would would like it to masquerade as theirs - particularly with this 'desire' of theirs for home games. That combined with the name "Oklahoma Thunder" and most idiots in America would assume the team was based in Tulsa. ...

This is nothing less than everything Tulsa has done in the past, taking all of the limelight for Oklahoma while shunning the much larger state capital city. In the past, OKC sat back and let it happen - but NOW - OKC is running the show and it is OKC who is putting up the money to make this happen.

Like you said, the state didn't GIVE OKC or the Thunder anything, the ONLY thing that the state allowed was the Quality Jobs exemption to apply to the upper percentile of the player's salaries. As you have mentioned, these salaries/players WERE NOT PREVIOUSLY IN OKLAHOMA...... SO IT IS STILL A GAIN TO THE STATE DESPITE THE $6M OR SO DOLLARS THE STATE C O U L D H A V E BEEN RECEIVING WITHOUT APPLYING QUALITY JOBS. ........ And like you said, this is no different than AA or all of the other expansions/relocations that Tulsa had enjoyed under the program.

Is there any way somebody can explain this to those idiots up there who are supposedly much smarter than us in hickville?


The quality jobs act had to be altered to give the handout to the Thunder, and it happened after the team announced they were moving. It was a dirty inside political deal with a relative of the Gaylord family, business as usual in Oklahoma.

The quality jobs act was intended to be used for jobs that brought new money into the state. New American Airlines workers that could just as easily be employed at Ft Worth or Kansas City certainly fit this description, just like workers at Dell here in Oklahoma City, or Devon could qualify. No issues there. But Service industry jobs do not qualify, or rather did not before the law was altered just for The Thunder. The NBA team brings no, or almost no, new money into Oklahoma. Those salaries are paid for by tickets bought by 99% Oklahomans with local discretionary income, that money was likely going to be spent on something here in the state and was just redirected to the NBA team. If that money had been spent elsewhere in the economy it would have actually generated more income and more taxes in Oklahoma than the team because so many of the players live and spend their money elsewhere.

Six million a year in a state that is laying off teachers. Brilliant.

The question is, why aren’t you upset? The team was already moving here when this payout happened. It had nothing to do with getting the team and everything to do with further enriching the rich people that own the team.

Actually, the NBA pays every team $49 million dollars as its share of television and merchandise sales. That money comes to Oklahoma City, and didn't before. Playoffs bring even more money into the state. In addition, most of the players live in Oklahoma City. Several are currently buying houses. Because they are young, some go home to their families in the summer, but they live here from August to April at least. They shop here (you will see them with packages at Penn Square Mall on weekends), they buy food here, they buy cars here, they pay income tax here and they will pay property taxes here.

Although it is not a large number, we do get people traveling here from Kansas and Texas to go to games, as well as the people involved in television production of games shown on national networks. They stay here and eat at our restaurants.

In addition, OKC, and indirectly the state, gets a massive amount of publicity from having an NBA team. Every televised game shows the most attractive pictures of the city it can find when it goes to commercial. Since our team improved so much, we will undoubtedly have a larger number of games on national television. Every playoff game is seen around the world. Everything great that was said about our crowd during the playoff games was heard by people in China, Europe, Australia and South America. Seen all those tourism commercials states spend millions on on national television? We basically got those and everything else I mentioned above for your six million in tax credits and a penny sales tax for 18 months.

The team owners spent $350 million to buy the team. They spent an additional $75 million to bring the team here. It's going to take years for them to break even on their investment, much less enriching themselves.

Doesn't the weirdness between Tulsa and Oklahoma City go back a lot farther than Thunder basketball?

My friend is from a small town outside of Tulsa. She went to OSU. Her friends were all from either Tulsa and the surrounding area, or Stillwater. She came to OKC for a job. She had only lived here a few months after graduating from OSU before she was tired of it and ready to leave. She hadn't made any new friends here in OKC yet, and none of her old friends lived here. None of them had ever considered moving here before. It was like OKC was a foreign land. From what I can tell this was instilled in them from their parents. And it probably goes back a heckuva lot farther.

I've hung with some of her friends before. It was almost always in Stillwater. A couple of times they came to her apartment over the couple of years she has lived here. But usually if she wants to hang with those old friends, she has to go to them.

I don't know what it is, but there's definitely something amiss.

This is a really Dumb and irrelevant discussion

The NBA approved the name Oklahoma City Thunder although Commissioner David Stern did have some initial reservations.

Let's face it folks, I can only think of one reason why Tulsans would be indifferent to the team being called Oklahoma City, simply because it leaves Tulsa out of the equation.

You don't have this problem in Texas in the Metroplex where the Dallas Cowboys, Texas Rangers (Arlington-Fort Worth area); Dallas Mavericks or Stars. You don't hear Fort Worth people complaining about the Mavericks and Stars being called Dallas. Why not the Fort Worth Rangers--would Dallas stop supporting the team?

If the Texas Rangers were called the Dallas Rangers would you hear Metroplex fans complaining?

Tulsa just plain doesn't want Oklahoma City to receive credit for this NBA franchise--plain and simply.

When they had the Tulsa Roughnecks in the NASL; you didn't hear Oklahoma City fans complaining about the team favoring Tulsa as part of the name?

I went to many NASL games in Tulsa and heard some TV announcers make the mistake that Tulsa was in Texas.

Sure, I've heard Kobe and other NBA players on NBA-TV refer to the team as Oklahoma; that doesn't mean that they don't recognize Oklahoma City. New York City is often referenced as New York.

Funny Tulsa didn't name the WNBA Shock--Oklahoma Shock!

What I find interesting is so many people here even care what anyone else thinks...

I really haven't seen any posts from Tulsans claiming to be upset.. I haven't really seen any Tulsans saying anything at all about the Thunder..

What I *do* see are a bunch of people stating what they *think* Tulsans are saying/thinking as if it were fact without anything to back them up..

Just more of the same from this forum..
This is where I saw people bitching. Just read any of the threads on the thunder.
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?board=27.0

This is a really Dumb and irrelevant discussion

Not sure why you see it that way. If Tulsa has a legitimate argument, then it needs to be brought up.

This is where I saw people bitching. Just read any of the threads on the thunder.
Sports Talk (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?board=27.0)


Not sure why you see it that way. If Tulsa has a legitimate argument, then it needs to be brought up.

My position is that Tulsa does not have a legitimate argument for the reasons previously stated. The team is named Oklahoma City so whether or not Tulsans like it is a mute point. The fact that the team is not named Oklahoma Thunder in no way takes away from the great amount of positive exposure recieved from them being in OKLAHOMA.

My position stated on a Tulsa board:
YoungTulsan
City Father

Offline

Posts: 1138


Re: Oklahoma's NBA team makes the playoffs!
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 01:19:29 am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you aren't impressed by the Thunder this year, you aren't a fan of professional basketball, just some casual onlooker putting some politicized opinion on something out there to hear yourself speak.

This is where I saw people bitching. Just read any of the threads on the thunder.
Sports Talk (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?board=27.0)


I see.. Did you invite any of those people over here to take part in your discussion?

I see.. Did you invite any of those people over here to take part in your discussion?

I had no idea that I was required to invite people anytime i have a discussion involving 2 parties. But nice attempt at trying to save yourself fuzzy.

I had no idea that I was required to invite people anytime i have a discussion involving 2 parties. But nice attempt at trying to save yourself fuzzy.

Save myself from what?

I just wanted to know where all these upset tulsans were, and now I just want to know why they aren't involved in the discussion..

It's really not in the best interest of this board to invite people from other forums to our "civil" forum because of the possibility of an all out forum war! I understand that!

Some Seattle posters wouldn't refrain from insanity and profanity--the same could be said for some Tulsa posters!

It wouldn't take much to get an Oklahoma City vs. Tulsa debacle going on; there appears to be some bad blood between inhabitants of both cities which runs past blood lines all the way to ancestry DNA; both cities are blood-thirsty rivals in just about every endeaver!

Tulsan here (currently in Dallas, but literally fly the flag of Oklahoma outside my house). Not angry, just a bit indifferent. Here's the narrative as I see it:

OKC told the league that Oklahoma would be a statewide market. They were told that Tulsa was an hour away and Tulsans would flock down the turnpike. The league saw that as a big part of the draw. The state legislature voted on a special subsidy. Tulsa's mayor was a big part of the courtship. Oklahoma seemed one big happy family.

The commissioner of the league (most likely influenced by this marketing) suggested that the team should be named Oklahoma, following the lead of other smaller-market teams such as Utah and Indiana. Mick Cornett and Clay Bennett pointedly refused. It then became clear that this would be Oklahoma City's team, not the whole state's.

That's one Tulsan's point of view. It's your team, not something we share. I'm a Mavs fan because I live in Dallas. If I still lived in Tulsa I'd probably just still follow the teams I did before. I enjoyed the Thunder's unlikely success, and rooted for them against the Lakers, but don't blame me for not being a fan. This is OKC's team, not Tulsa's. And that's how you wanted it.

If someone chooses not to support a team because of the name, I must admit I'm flabbergasted. I used to be a Mavs fan, despite the fact that they weren't called the Texoma Mavericks. We were considered part of their market, but no one bothered to acknowledge that fact when naming the team. I suppose I shouldn't be a Dallas Cowboys fan for the same reason. I'm planning on supporting the Tulsa Shock....will go to a few games and watch them on tv. And yet, despite the fact that they were bought by people from OKC, I'm not holding the fact that they aren't the Oklahoma Shock against the team, the owners or Tulsans in general. It would seem rather small-minded of me to do so.

Betts, you hit the nail on the head.

Don't be flabbergasted. In the words of Jerry Seinfeld, "We're rooting for laundry!" I don't hold the name on the laundry against the team, but it means I'm rather indifferent instead of a fan. I think this reflects the views of many Tulsans.

EDIT: To make the point more clearly, I believe we become sports fans through socialization, with a geographic focus. In other words, social pressures create fans, which is why you're a Cowboys fan even though the clothes say "Dallas." What if Gainesville suddenly had a new football team--or Ardmore? You'd need another compelling reason to switch allegiance and become a fan. In Tulsa's case, that compelling reason could have been state pride. But when OKC decided the team would be named after the city, represent the city, and be the city's team, Tulsa collectively shrugged. We didn't grow up there. We don't live there. We live in Oklahoma, not OKC. It's not hate, it's not that we're upset. It's that we lack any emotional connection to the OKC Thunder franchise. Now, thirty years from now, that my change, as young people will grow up with the team and perhaps form an attachment through that process of socialization based on geography. But as of this moment, it hasn't happened yet.

Floyd, your argument above is fundamentally flaw'd.

You mention that people are Cowboys' fans even though merchandise says Dallas, then you turn around and say it's ok for Tulsan's NOT TO BE Thunder fans because it says OKC.

In truth, the city stuff only really matters in the US. In China, the team is known as the Thunder; just like every other team in the NBA is known by it's name and not necessarily by the city. Im in China and I know this is how the NBA is promoted here. Also, players are promoted, especially Kobe, LeBron, Durant.

In my thinking, I think it was a good idea for the team to be OKC because:

1) OKC residents did pony up the money for the stadium, it's expansion and practice facility

2) OKC owners bought, litigated, and moved the team to their hometown (no money from the state, Tulsa, or anybody else)

3) There is no way Tulsa or any other tertiary city can lay claim to supporting the franchise (it's very easy to see where the season tix holders are from; and despite a number of them coming from Tulsa, many also come from Wichita, Amarillo, other parts of OK, KS, TX, MO, and AR too; but the bulk come from OKC metro and OKC itself no doubt). I don't see/hear anybody from outside of Tulsa complaining about the team's name, this despite more people living outside of Tulsa in the remainder of the state (1.3+m people live in Oklahoma outside of Tulsa and OKC metro areas, Tulsa CSA/Green Country is 900K). ...

4) Despite being a small market, OKC needed the marketing to be separate from Oklahoma [want to cause confusion? call the team Oklahoma and then you just diminished or competed against the #1 brand label in the state - the OU Sooners, who already get PLENTY of marketing]

5) Tulsa's mayor ONLY showed up for the photo op, which in reality had little if anything to do with actually securing the team. Most people with half a brain could have figured out that Tulsa might be included in OKC's tertiary market, just like Seattle included Spokane and Tacoma. ....

Tulsa's mayor showing up wasn't a BIG reason for OKC getting the team, the biggest reason was 1) an arena 2) a city willing to support a team 3) ownership committed to said city and said city's leadership committed to said team and 4) the NBA wanted OUT of SEATTLE and wanted a new market that would support it's newest superstar(s).

6) regardless of what nice-minded Tulsan's come here to say - those others who are upset about the name wanted it to be Oklahoma and regular season games in Tulsa so it could masquerade as their team. Plain and Simple. ...


I agree there is bad blood, but from an OKC expat's point of view I point most of that blame to Tulsa and many of their residents' sense of entitlement. They have always tried to be superior to instead of 'helping' this state. Even if Tulsan's would say thier things as "Oklahoma", it would NOT be to embrace the state but instead they would do it to pretend the state is ONLY Tulsa.

Also, I notice how people on here say something about Tulsa or their opinion, then defend Tulsa with this 'pretty city' crap. Last time I was up there, I didn't see anything pretty about it and noted that OKC had moved into a different league. Perhaps that is what many up there are most upset about, they can't culture shock OKC anymore because it is just too far big and rising?

I think Tulsan's should enjoy what they have (Tulsa Shock WNBA, Tulsa 66ers D-League) because that is more than they had before and both teams are owned by OKC people; despite not putting OKC or Oklahoma on those teams.

If they sit back and keep bitchin' about not having this or that, they will look up and the WNBA will be gone. Whose fault will it be then?

EDIT: To make the point more clearly, I believe we become sports fans through socialization, with a geographic focus. In other words, social pressures create fans, which is why you're a Cowboys fan even though the clothes say "Dallas." What if Gainesville suddenly had a new football team--or Ardmore? You'd need another compelling reason to switch allegiance and become a fan. In Tulsa's case, that compelling reason could have been state pride. But when OKC decided the team would be named after the city, represent the city, and be the city's team, Tulsa collectively shrugged. We didn't grow up there. We don't live there. We live in Oklahoma, not OKC. It's not hate, it's not that we're upset. It's that we lack any emotional connection to the OKC Thunder franchise. Now, thirty years from now, that my change, as young people will grow up with the team and perhaps form an attachment through that process of socialization based on geography. But as of this moment, it hasn't happened yet.

I sometimes think Lawton is as passionate about the Thunder as Oklahoma City. We have people from the panhandle who have season tickets, as well as Wichita. It's not all about Oklahoma City to any of them, it's about the team. Or perhaps it's about state pride for some of them. If Tulsa got an NFL team, I would switch allegiance (actually I'm a Vikings fan, the Cowboys thing was just to make a point), or at least given them joint allegiance since I'm a Vikings fan from birth. That would be about state pride to me, regardless of whether they were the Tulsa _________ or the Oklahoma ________. Especially if yall built the stadium with Tulsa tax dollars and had a Tulsa owner. I think people from Tulsa who use the name as an excuse not to support the team don't really care that much about about sports to begin with, or it's a city versus city thing. Because we should all be celebrating the fact that Oklahoma finally has enough gravitas to have professional sports. be it the Oklahoma City Thunder, the Tulsa Shock or the Tulsa 66ers. That's a pretty amazing thing, considering what Oklahoma was like when I moved here, pretty Tulsa included.

What's funny is how many major league teams don't even play in the city whose name is on their uniforms, yet no one complains about it and people come from much farther away than Tulsa is from Oklahoma City to support those teams. Yet, Tulsa's Mayor comes to a press conference and that suddenly undoes all the money Oklahoma City and Oklahoma City businesses invested on the road to landing an NBA team? That's insane.

And the state incentives made available to the Thunder are available to companies that locate in Tulsa as well. In those cases, we still don't dictate what the names of those companies are.

I can understand some being indifferent because the team does not play in their market, but suggesting that their support is contingent on a name change is just petty. That's like saying the 49ers need to change the name from the San Francisco 49ers to the Northern California 49ers or people in Redding will stop supporting the team. And they're probably going to be playing in Santa Clara soon, too! LOL.

Again, if someone is indifferent to the team because they don't like the NBA, or that they don't play in their market, or that they are a fan of another team, then that makes complete sense. But if they say they don't care specifically because the team is named Oklahoma City and not Oklahoma, then that's just kind of childish. And, really, it's their loss as this is a fun team by any standard and the Ford Center has one of the best environments to see a game in the whole of the NBA.

What is really upsetting Tulsa is the fact that they have taken a back seat to Oklahoma City--OKC has become big league and to really pile in on OKC's farm team is located in Tulsa. I feel that's why they don't support the 66ers.

What OKC MAPs projects have and will generate goes far and beyond:

Oklahoma City's public investment in this new package is $777 million; it will probably generate more than $5 billion plus in private investments based on what occurred with the previous MAPS.

The Oklahoma City Museum of Art was private. Many of the projects on the Oklahoma River are private.

MAPS was the catalyst for Devon Energy remaining in OKC or it would have relocated to Houston. Now the $750 million office tower is going up--Myriad Gardens improvements are being funded by Devon. Project 180 is in progress and Oklahoma City will leave Tulsa dead in their tracks like an idled old antique train.


Yet, people in Tulsa believe that we are stupid for passing and continuing to extend this one-cent sales tax which has generated a massive economic impact--calling it millionaires' welfare!

Sure they are jealous!

Oklahoma City is like the new magnificantly groomed hostess who has invested in a new wardrobe. Tulsa is like Scarlett O'Hare parading around in that ole dress from the estates' mansion drapes.

we should give the farm team to Wichita then, Im sure they would support it and would LOVE to have some big league love (and see/support developing players) and have a tie-in to OKC.

I would move the 66ers to Wichita as soon as the lease with whatever arena they play at in Tulsa is over. Im POSITIVE wichita would welcome the team with open arms.

One more thing to add to what Hot Rod said a few posts ago. There is also the fact that OKC fans proved to the NBA that we could support a team by filling the arena for two years of Hornets games when A) they weren't our team and B) at least for the first year they weren't very good.

Side note. The Redhawks were named Oklahoma at their inception to be the "state" team. I'm glad they renamed them Oklahoma City. They too are ours, not anyone else's.

One more thing to add to what Hot Rod said a few posts ago. There is also the fact that OKC fans proved to the NBA that we could support a team by filling the arena for two years of Hornets games when A) they weren't our team and B) at least for the first year they weren't very good.

Side note. The Redhawks were named Oklahoma at their inception to be the "state" team. I'm glad they renamed them Oklahoma City. They too are ours, not anyone else's.



Let me give you some background on the name Oklahoma Redhawks!

In 1997 Mayor Norick received a phone call from the NHL on a Friday telling him to get a press conference ready for Monday of the next week. That's how close we were to getting an NHL team. Columbus made one last minute pitch in which Nation-wide Mutual INS/Papers of Columbus agreed to naming rights if an arena were to be built. They provided 90% or the initial financing of Nationwide Arena (Total cost = $175 million) for indefinite naming-rights.

Columbus was a bigger market than Oklahoma City and the NHL questioned whether Oklahoma City could build an NHL ready-arena with $89 million. What was unclear at the time--the bundled land acquisition (separate issue) for all the projects on downtown OKC accounted for something in the neighborhood of $16 million (ballpark, canal, library, arena).

All of the merchandising went full steam ahead and we later discovered that the 4th and final franchise was awarded to Columbus, OH (Bluejackets).

Ron Norick was just told to get a press conference ready--the NHL didn't confirm that final expansion franchise until Monday of the following week.

Nashville -1998, Atlanta - 1998, Minnesota (St. Paul) 2000, Columbus - 2000 were awarded teams and Oklahoma City and Houston were left out in the cold.

Oklahoma's NHL team was to be called the Oklahoma Redhawks. The 89ers picked up rights to the name when Southwestern Bell Bricktown Ballpark opened; the team was later renamed Oklahoma City Redhawks.

WOW.....to bad the NHL and the NBA plays the same time of the year. I think the Barons will do well. Who knows, maybe OKC will have an NHL team in the future.

Yeah go ahead and move the 66'ers to Wichita. OKC is so much better the streets are paved with gold and money falls from the sky.

Ok its the Dallas Cowboys, the Dallas Mavericks. Oklahoma City Thunder... Get over the jelousy if you want a Sports team of your own Tulsa go out and RECRUIT ONE!!

Stop the madness! Why can't we all just get along!

With the BOK Center in Tulsa which would be a viable NHL arena why shouldn't OKC-Tulsa businessmen pull together and try to lure the NHL to Tulsa and this could become one major market shared by two comparable cities?

Minneapolis-St. Paul are sharing with the NBA Timberwolves in Minneapolis and the NHL Wild in St. Paul.

I see so much fighting going on between posters here and the Tulsa Now forum, it's as though some of the Tulsa posters will never get over their "hate" for Oklahoma City; believe me, it's right up there with the Seattle Posters on the NBA in Seattle Times forum--they're still hating on us. I can understand Seattle's attitude toward OKC; however, Tulsa is right here in the same state.

Minneapolis and St. Paul are like Dallas and Ft. Worth. This would be like Tampa and Jacksonville sharing a team.

Too much generalization here...you can't say "Tulsa people say this" or "OKC people say that". 1 or 2 posters saying the same thing do not speak for an entire city. I know it's obvious, but people seem to forget quickly...

Tulsa businessmen can go get their own teams, just like OKC businessmen did for OKC. There's no reason for OKC businessmen to make Tulsa major league. ... Sorry Laramie, you lost me with that proposal. ...

Too much generalization here...you can't say "Tulsa people say this" or "OKC people say that". 1 or 2 posters saying the same thing do not speak for an entire city. I know it's obvious, but people seem to forget quickly...

Quite true. A good number of the core group of TulsaNow posters give a very poor impression of Tulsans

I would love for tulsa to get an NHL team. Call them the "tulsa __", and i would still feel attached to them. Partly because they are in the state, partly because i have no team. But i would definitely go up there a few times to see a NHL game.

Tulsa businessmen can go get their own teams, just like OKC businessmen did for OKC. There's no reason for OKC businessmen to make Tulsa major league. ... Sorry Laramie, you lost me with that proposal. ...

Or, they can elect to leave it to OKC business folk to do it for them, as has already happened, more than once.

Hope they remembered to say thanks to them, even though they were not from T-town. As a former resident myself, I thought it fairly nifty that someone saw fit to do that for today's Tulsa.

I would love for tulsa to get an NHL team. Call them the "tulsa __", and i would still feel attached to them. Partly because they are in the state, partly because i have no team. But i would definitely go up there a few times to see a NHL game.


Thank you soonerfan_in_okc! Two cities working together can achieve more! This fighting and jealousy among some posters on both boards does nothing to achieve progress for both cities. Tulsa & Oklahoma City both have 'positives' and that's what we should accentuate.
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Hot Rod:

Tulsa businessmen can go get their own teams, just like OKC businessmen did for OKC. There's no reason for OKC businessmen to make Tulsa major league. ... Sorry Laramie, you lost me with that proposal. ...
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Oklahoma City, RENAISSANCE CITY!


Hot Rod, my proposal wasn't to make Tulsa major league, I feel that with both cities working together we could enjoy the NBA and the NHL since both sports overlap. It would be risky for OKC to attempt to support both the NBA and the NHL.

I would travel to Tulsa to support an Oklahoma NHL experience. The NHL would insist that the team be called Oklahoma; however, if it was called Tulsa ___?____, I would still support it. Our 1997 bid for NHL expansion stipulated that the team be called Oklahoma____?_____; marketing it as a state team--hence Oklahoma Redhawks was to be unveiled.

The NBA did not place this stipulation on Bennett & PBC when they moved the Sonics to Oklahoma City. It was the City of Oklahoma City that made it clear that the team would be called Oklahoma City since this city was investing in the financial relocation (NBA ready arena) that the team reflect the community name which made all of the relocation possible. The whole big league city campaign was a breakthrough effort to vault OKC as a big league market. We are far from a true big league market, we are in the infancy stages.

OKC and Tulsa could work together to bring both cities closer together and should light rail become a reality (OKC-TUL) there are other possitivies which both cities could achieve.

sorry, I still don't agree.

This is OKC, so we don't need Tulsa to have a NHL team for OKC to be successful. If OKC wants an NHL team, then Clay Bennett (and Co) can go buy one in a few years and put it in OKC.

There's no reason at all, for OKC to go buy Tulsa an NHL team just so OKC fans can go up to Tulsa to support the team. Im just not buying that proposal at all and there is no other precedent for this in any other market or league. OKC is getting/has an AHL AAA-team, so why would OKC go and get an NHL team for Tulsa just so OKC fans could go help support it?????

Face it, Tulsa is not major league and there's nothing wrong with that. Not every city in America can make it work and just because OKC has a team doesn't mean Tulsa needs one. OKC can get more teams when OKC is ready for it. In my assessment, all OKC needs is common ownership of the NBA and NHL/NFL/MLB then it would work once the metro gets above 1.5-2.0 million.

Tulsa can do very well taking on OKC's AAA status and supporting OKC teams in a tertiery way (just like every other market with large small cities nearby); this is much more realistic than getting Tulsa an NHL team so that both cities can co-market/support. I think Tulsa could do very well as a true AAA city (like OKC has been) and more or less take over OKC's place there.

Tulsa has the WNBA and the NBA D-League, provided by OKC businessmen. This (in my view) was not a slap to them but rather an attempt to create a homogeneous Oklahoma market for basketball, giving Tulsa what it CAN support and 'should' do well. They need to go and support those teams and if they become above 1.3m then perhaps they could get their own major league team.

If Tulsa wants to go out on their own, by all means; but OKC should focus on it's own teams and let Tulsa (naturally) take on more of a AAA-role in most sports where they can enjoy more local/hometown success.

Uhhh, yeah T-town thanks you for your scraps, I know we aren't worthy of the glamour of OKC.

Tulsa needs to find a niche just as OKC has done. There's no reason why both cities can't be successful. OKC needs to realize Tulsa has some good qualities, just as Tulsa needs to realize OKC has some good qualities.

I think Tulsa needs to accept that OKC leapfrogged them. Let's put the bitterness aside. Tulsa needs to face the reality that it is smaller than OKC.

This state needs to be more competitive so we stop losing corporations to Texas. If you want to point fingers, point them at the suits at the capital who spend their working hours passing unconstitutional abortion bills.

This state needs to be more competitive so we stop losing corporations to Texas. If you want to point fingers, point them at the suits at the capital who spend their working hours passing unconstitutional abortion bills.

I agree with you completely but I don't quite see the connection with this thread.

Tulsa needs to find a niche just as OKC has done. There's no reason why both cities can't be successful. OKC needs to realize Tulsa has some good qualities, just as Tulsa needs to realize OKC has some good qualities.

I think Tulsa needs to accept that OKC leapfrogged them. Let's put the bitterness aside. Tulsa needs to face the reality that it is smaller than OKC.

Great post. There's no point in Tulsa being jealous of OKC and trying duplicate it. Tulsa needs to continue developing its own identity, which is very different from OKC. In the end, our state having different major cities will benefit us a lot more than a state having two cities that look and act exactly alike.

I agree with you completely but I don't quite see the connection with this thread.

Economics. Major league sports rely on corporate sponsorship. A city needs Fortune 500 corporations to support major league sports - they provide a base of well-paid fans and the corporations provide major bucks and receive PR. The main reason we have the Thunder is because of the rise of Devon and Chesapeake. The corporate heads have teamed up with the Oklahoman, Mid-First, SandRidge, and OG&E. They are the economic foundation that makes it work in OKC.

Tulsa has seen its corporate base erode over the years to Texas.

Therefore, Oklahoma needs to be more attractive and provide a competitive advantage for Oklahoma-based corporations to grow and remain here.

Class dismissed.