I heard Jim Traber bellowing about this on the FOX 25 sports show tonight, but after further research is does appear the Big 12 is shopping around for sites. Both Round Rock Texas and Tulsa are prepping bids to host the tournament in 2012-2014.

Tulsa World: ONEOK Field eyes Big 12 tourney (http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/article.aspx?subjectid=203&articleid=20100508_203_B1_ANOTHE445259&rss_lnk=2)

Express bid to host Big 12 Baseball Tournament - WeAreAustin.com (http://weareaustin.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=61446)

After looking at both storys, I don't think Round Rock will host a tournament no matter how much cash Nolan Ryan throws at the Big 12 because the North schools will complain about driving too far. There's not enough hotel rooms in the area, and the Big 12 shot down a similar request from Frisco, Texas, another overgrown suburb, a while back.

Tulsa, well that's another story. Its sort of in the center of the conference, and officials with the Big 12 seem to always be impressed with shiny and new (see: Sprint Center, Jerryworld). Also, I know a new hotel is about to open up in downtown Tulsa. Plus there seems to be a wave of new restaurants opening up in the area.

My question is, whats the chance that this tourney bolts OKC at the end of 2011? I think we offer a good package, but do the Big 12 think so as well. I know that OKC has hosted a college tournament dating back to Big 8 days, and the only time it hasn't wasn't viewed as a success (read: a pro stadium 2/3 empty down in Arlington). I think it would be a tragedy if it leaves for Tulsa or even Round Rock.

Chance is good. OKC rested on its laurels with the Big 12 events and we're about to lose both the baseball and basketball tournaments. I heard NCAA tourney had a bad experience in OKC this year.

I think OKC still has a good shot, but we can't rest on our laurels. I don't see it going to Round Rock for the same reasons mentioned, and have you been to Tulsa's stadium? Much smaller, nothing really around it, the area around it is dumpy and industrial, you have to drive to go eat, hotel, etc. Bricktown and our DT has a nicer setup than either park as far as proximity to hotel/entertainment/food from stadium. I'm not too worried about us losing this. I think if the tourney does bolt for a year or two, they will learn and move back. I was going to mention Frisco, TX as an alternate site but it seems that you mentioned they turned it down so I'm not too worried as it is in the "Big D" and it is a nicer stadium than Tulsa's.

Big 12 baseball tried leaving once and came running back to Okc. Everyone knows that Okc is the best option for this tournament even if we are resting on our laurels.

Chance is good. OKC rested on its laurels with the Big 12 events and we're about to lose both the baseball and basketball tournaments. I heard NCAA tourney had a bad experience in OKC this year.

How so? That is, how has OKC been resting on its laurels and what was bad about the NCAA's experience this year?

Tulsa's new stadium holds what?8k,compared to The Bricks 13-14k!and also i dont know what The hotel room count in DT Tulsa is,but I'm willing to bet its not as much as OKC! I would not be mad if it went to Tulsa,but would be if it went to Round Rock(Austin)!

Chance is good. OKC rested on its laurels with the Big 12 events and we're about to lose both the baseball and basketball tournaments. I heard NCAA tourney had a bad experience in OKC this year.

Where did you hear that? I knew the basketball and baseball tourney in 2009 had lower attendance, but it was down even more in KC this past spring, likely due to the weak economy.

Where did you hear that? I knew the basketball and baseball tourney in 2009 had lower attendance, but it was down even more in KC this past spring, likely due to the weak economy.

Also, wasn't there bad weather during the tourney? I think Spartan may be imagining things again.

There was horrible weather during the tournament - a snow storm. That, plus the fact that the #1 seed, Kansas, went down after a smackdown by come-from-behind Butler. Most of the Jayhawks fans, who had planned to stick it out through the duration (they are a loyal bunch of basketball followers), hightailed it home after their opening round loss.

These types of things happen at ALL of the regionals.

Neither of those factors was OKC's fault. I've not heard anything "bad" about the tourney, other than the fact that certain teams expected to win, did not.

ONEOK Field (Tulsa) holds 7,800 for baseball while The Brick holds at little over 13,000.

That's a significant difference.


OKC has hosted this tournament 10 of the 12 years it's been in existence.

There was horrible weather during the tournament - a snow storm. That, plus the fact that the #1 seed, Kansas, went down after a smackdown by come-from-behind Butler. Most of the Jayhawks fans, who had planned to stick it out through the duration (they are a loyal bunch of basketball followers), hightailed it home after their opening round loss.

These types of things happen at ALL of the regionals.

Neither of those factors was OKC's fault. I've not heard anything "bad" about the tourney, other than the fact that certain teams expected to win, did not.

Frittergirl, your facts are all wrong. Kansas lost in the second round game to Northern Iowa. So Kansas fans were still there en mass for the first and second round games, as well as K States fans. But attendance was still down from the previous times we have hosted. I dont think they even sold all the tickets.

FYI, Kansas was upset in the first round in Oklahoma City back in 2005 by Bucknell. Im not sure they like being a high seed in OKC.

[QUOTE=onthestrip;326340]Frittergirl, your facts are all wrong. Kansas lost in the second round game to Northern Iowa. So Kansas fans were still there en mass for the first and second round games, as well as K States fans. But attendance was still down from the previous times we have hosted. I dont think they even sold all the tickets.QUOTE]

You are correct, it was the second round but the fact still remains that they went home early. The other negative was no Oklahoma team in the regional. Check around, I bet there were few other locations where there wasn't a local favorite in the mix that sold out.

Fritter girl's other point about the weather was correct though. I believe there was bad weather.

Here's a discussion that I had with the guy who used to run the KC forums. He comes down to OKC every year it seems to see K-State play in a tourney or at OU or whatever. He had a very negative first hand experience that he went into depth with, and he has some really good points about OKC getting complacent and losing hospitality points. He was willing to excuse a lot of things for the bad weather.

OKC for NCAA 1st/2nd rounds (http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?topic=16540.0)

___________________

And metro wrote this:


I think OKC still has a good shot, but we can't rest on our laurels. I don't see it going to Round Rock for the same reasons mentioned, and have you been to Tulsa's stadium? Much smaller, nothing really around it, the area around it is dumpy and industrial, you have to drive to go eat, hotel, etc. Bricktown and our DT has a nicer setup than either park as far as proximity to hotel/entertainment/food from stadium. I'm not too worried about us losing this. I think if the tourney does bolt for a year or two, they will learn and move back. I was going to mention Frisco, TX as an alternate site but it seems that you mentioned they turned it down so I'm not too worried as it is in the "Big D" and it is a nicer stadium than Tulsa's.

The new ONEOK Field is much smaller physically but it is an amazing baseball facility. Everyone is raving about it, even OU/OSU players who play at the Brick, and even the OKC media. John Rohde called it a tie between it and the Brick, so you know that in order to be on par with the Brick that the new Tulsa stadium has to have something great going for it. They can expand the seating into the grass area seating about 9,000 which is not much smaller than the 13,000 or so that can watch a game at the Brick.

As for the environment around the new stadium... can't think of anywhere in all of Oklahoma that has as many different infill projects going on. No, none of them are 850 ft tall..but we're talking real urbanism here, several blocks of infill development. Every time the TDA meets they deal with 4-5 development proposals at a time. DT Tulsa is hot. Too bad the Tulsa v. OKC attitude just makes it impossible to have a sane conversation about the two cities...

As for "dumpy and industrial" .. um, you realize that you're talking about another city's Bricktown area, right? Greenwood itself has more history, some good, some terrible..but overall more history than just about anywhere in Oklahoma and today's resurgence in the former "Black Wall Street" is a dream come true for Greenwood community activists. They're doing a LOT to honor their history which is awesome, while growing by leaps and bounds at the same time.

I can't help but rave about OKC's two cities, and yeah, I rave about everything that OKC is doing to outsiders as well. But come on guys. Face it, we have gotten complacent, we've gotten full of ourselves, and we've gotten smug. We've still the Big Friendly, but what happened to that Okie modesty that people like? Go to a "real city" and you'll realize how far OKC still has to come and all I'm saying is that we still have our work cut out for us in terms of that, focus on continued improvement, not on boasting and beating down competitor cities. That's for cities with an inferiority complex which we certainly have nothing inferior about us.

Like I've been saying, face the facts dammit. Competition is real and OKC isn't the center of the universe just yet. ONEOK Field is a real threat to the baseball tourney, which is a double whammy because KC and the Big 12 north are making power plays as we speak to land the basketball tourney permanently in KC and it remains to be seen whether the Texas schools will support OKC or not.

___________________

The new ONEOK Field is much smaller physically but it is an amazing baseball facility. Everyone is raving about it, even OU/OSU players who play at the Brick, and even the OKC media. John Rohde called it a tie between it and the Brick, so you know that in order to be on par with the Brick that the new Tulsa stadium has to have something great going for it. They can expand the seating into the grass area seating about 9,000 which is not much smaller than the 13,000 or so that can watch a game at the Brick.

As for the environment around the new stadium... can't think of anywhere in all of Oklahoma that has as many different infill projects going on. No, none of them are 850 ft tall..but we're talking real urbanism here, several blocks of infill development. Every time the TDA meets they deal with 4-5 development proposals at a time. DT Tulsa is hot. Too bad the Tulsa v. OKC attitude just makes it impossible to have a sane conversation about the two cities...

As for "dumpy and industrial" .. um, you realize that you're talking about another city's Bricktown area, right? Greenwood itself has more history, some good, some terrible..but overall more history than just about anywhere in Oklahoma and today's resurgence in the former "Black Wall Street" is a dream come true for Greenwood community activists. They're doing a LOT to honor their history which is awesome, while growing by leaps and bounds at the same time.


I believe the Brick can also hold more than its stated "seating" capacity of 13K+. At least they have recorded attendance of 15,000+, including for games at the Big XII tournament. To say that 9,000 "is not much smaller than 15,000 (or even 13,000)" is just silly, especially if the event has actually been selling more than 9,000 tickets.

You are right that Tulsa is FINALLY getting around to doing some exciting development in their downtown. But of course you exaggerate by enormous proportions. TDA deals with 4-5 development proposals at every one of their meetings? Even if that is true, just how many of those development proposals see the light of day? VERY FEW. The most exciting and interesting stuff happening in downtown Tulsa has NOTHING to do with TDA.

But more to the point. For all of the improvement and prospective improvement, at the end of the day, the Big XII wants to take its tourney to a place with a good atmosphere on the days of the tournament, not five years or ten years hence. And by good atmosphere, I am referring of course to having a substantial number of bars and restaurants and hotels within an easy (and pleasant) walking distance from the event venue.

Unfortunately, Tulsa is still a long ways from having that. I've had the same discussion in the past regarding Tulsa's bids for the Big XII basketball tournament. It takes nothing away from the venue itself (BOK Center or Oneok Field) or from Tulsa. But these decisions are not made in vacuum. Why would the Big XII choose a smaller venue over a larger one (when they in fact use the capacity of the larger one)? Why would the Big XII choose to move to a venue that has FAR fewer restaurants, bars and hotels within an easy and pleasant walk?

Unless OKC has REALLY dropped the ball in a major way (something for which we have no evidence), I just don't see it happening.

Spartan, please post pics of Tulsa's "Bricktown" and all the stuff within safe walking distance from ONEOKC field. I was just there 2 months ago and most of the area was sketchy.

Spartan, please post pics of Tulsa's "Bricktown" and all the stuff within safe walking distance from ONEOKC field. I was just there 2 months ago and most of the area was sketchy.

He wont because he can't. Instead, he is going to rant about how it is developing and we need to be worried about what does not even exist yet.


And spartan, 9k vs 13k. that is 4k people, which is alot considering that is roughly 40% of the capacity of OneOk field. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about, so just stop. You made yourself look like an idiot when you tried to make out OCU's law school to be better than OU's, and backed up your opinion with little facts. You tell us the "face the fact's, damnit" but you do not face them yourself.

Why don't we just play hardball with the Big 12. They've seen what happens when they chase the money. They know that the Brick is the best place for this event. Its all about negotiations. Just don't think the ASA wants to take
that risk.

Not trying to sound like a jerk but do you have any more info than one, random guy on a message board that says there wasn't enough "flair" in the city?

That seems a little flimsy, at best, to say we are resting on the past.

I'll post a few pictures of Tulsa's "Bricktown" by ONEOK field in case Spartan is busy.

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Tulsa_Bricktown_by_ONEOKfield2.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Tulsa_Bricktown_by_ONEOKfield.JPG

http://www.okctalk.com/gallery/data/500/medium/Tulsa_Bricktown_by_ONEOKfield3.JPG

http://kjrh.img.entriq.net/img/dp_thumbs/thumb_1266407420161_0p43949210245558995.jpg

http://www.batesline.com/archives/2009/06/17/TulsaClub2009.JPG

Just do a Google Streetview on ONEOK Field Tulsa and there are many run down buildings and empty fields.

[QUOTE=OSUFan;326481]Not trying to sound like a jerk but do you have any more info than one, random guy on a message board that says there wasn't enough "flair" in the city?

That seems a little flimsy, at best, to say we are resting on the past.[/QUOTEJ

Indeed. In fact, it's worse than just some "random" guy. It's a random guy from a competing city (a city that is not happy about sharing basketball events with this upstart in OK)

I think it should be pointed out that I believe the fields you are showing are actually where the ballpark is now located and therefore no longer exist, the multistory brick building is now renovated and the home of Living Arts of Tulsa and the interior shot is of the Mayo which now looks like this:

http://www.preservationnation.org/assets/photos-images/preservation-magazine/story/2009/mayo2.jpg

Mayo isn't near the ballpark, and sorry most of those fields were across the street in two different directions.

Both of those 'fields' are now developed. The one in the first pic is now John Hope Franklin Park and the one in the second pic is the ballpark itself. The old warehouse in the third pic is still there but the one across the street has been renovated and is actually the Tulsa office for OKC-based Perimeter Technology. Several other buildings around the ballpark have been renovated since Google streetview took these pics 2 years ago. I agree there is not much in the way of bars/restaurants within the immediate vicinity of the ballpark like in OKC but there are a similar amount in the Blue Dome area a couple blocks south along Elgin.

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

I think OKC still has a good shot, but we can't rest on our laurels. I don't see it going to Round Rock for the same reasons mentioned, and have you been to Tulsa's stadium? Much smaller, nothing really around it, the area around it is dumpy and industrial, you have to drive to go eat, hotel, etc.


False.

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

This might be an over simplification but has the Big 12 ever done anything in Tulsa?

This year there will be an expanded beer garden outside the stadium with a few interactive fans activities as well as a stage showcasing ACM@UCO
students before and after games. There also will be a star performance
on the stage before the final session on Sat night. Should be fun.

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

Not a golf fan, I take it?

False.

Explain?

I think it should be pointed out that I believe the fields you are showing are actually where the ballpark is now located and therefore no longer exist, the multistory brick building is now renovated and the home of Living Arts of Tulsa and the interior shot is of the Mayo which now looks like this:


Sorry, Swake. I'm pretty sure that Metro's interior shot is NOT the Mayo, but the Tulsa Club Building, which still presumably looks approximately like the above photo. (Neither is particularly close to Oneok Field.)

Both of those 'fields' are now developed. The one in the first pic is now John Hope Franklin Park and the one in the second pic is the ballpark itself. The old warehouse in the third pic is still there but the one across the street has been renovated and is actually the Tulsa office for OKC-based Perimeter Technology. Several other buildings around the ballpark have been renovated since Google streetview took these pics 2 years ago. I agree there is not much in the way of bars/restaurants within the immediate vicinity of the ballpark like in OKC but there are a similar amount in the Blue Dome area a couple blocks south along Elgin.

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

Yes, there are a few places in the Blue Dome District, but it is simply not realistic to pretend that they are similar in number to what is in Bricktown.

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

That would probably be the NFL. Back in the 1920s or so lol.

I'm not going to respond to Oil Capitol..thinking about just clicking "ignore" and not having to read his posts anymore.

As for "now bars in Tulsa" -- Tulsa doesn't have nearly the bar scene that DT OKC has, and we're really lucky to have so many hotspots downtown. Tulsa does however have a lot of new restaurants and bars not to mention Elliot Nelson, who is the McNellie's guy. Blue Dome has 5 of Nelson's restaurants alone, including the original McNellie's. Other people than just Nelson own restaurants in Blue Dome, too.

That would probably be the NFL. Back in the 1920s or so lol.

I'm not going to respond to Oil Capitol..thinking about just clicking "ignore" and not having to read his posts anymore.

As for "now bars in Tulsa" -- Tulsa doesn't have nearly the bar scene that DT OKC has, and we're really lucky to have so many hotspots downtown. Tulsa does however have a lot of new restaurants and bars not to mention Elliot Nelson, who is the McNellie's guy. Blue Dome has 5 of Nelson's restaurants alone, including the original McNellie's. Other people than just Nelson own restaurants in Blue Dome, too.

Not sure what your point was, or if you even had one. Bottom line. . . Tulsa/Oneok Field still falls way short compared to OKC/Bricktown as a site for the Big XII baseball tournament. What is the fifth Nelson restaurant? I am familiar with McNellie's, El Guapo, Dilly Deli, and Yokozuma. Are you counting the bowling alley (which is (a) not yet in existence and (b) not a restaurant) as the fifth Nelson restaurant?

For the record, the best source I know for establishments in the downtown area is the Downtown Live website portion of tulsanow.org. Here are the 11 restaurants, bars, and entertainment venues they show in the Blue Dome District:

Arnie's Bar
First Street Music Halls (Capella's and Exit 6C)
Dilly Deli
Blue Dome Diner
Dirty's Tavern
El Guapo's Cantina
Flytrap Music Hall
Fortune Chef
Joe Momma's
McNellie's
Midtown Adult Superstore
They left off Yokozuma, so that gives us 12 (counting the porn shop)

P.S. Given your aversion to facts, I am confident you would be happier with having me on the "ignore" setting. Rest assured, however, that I will keep posting corrections just to make sure that others don't buy into your stream of misinformation.

Seriously, Midtown Adult Superstore is included in the list? Maybe Christies Toybox needs to open a location in Bricktown (next to Hooters or Coyote Ugly)...LOL

If Tulsa wrestled away this tourney from OKC,would it be The biggest sporting event EVER in Tulsa?

The U.S. Open and PGA Championship are pretty big events.

Not sure what your point was, or if you even had one. Bottom line. . . Tulsa/Oneok Field still falls way short compared to OKC/Bricktown as a site for the Big XII baseball tournament. What is the fifth Nelson restaurant? I am familiar with McNellie's, El Guapo, Dilly Deli, and Yokozuma. Are you counting the bowling alley (which is (a) not yet in existence and (b) not a restaurant) as the fifth Nelson restaurant?

Nelson is opening a new one in June called Fassler Hall. Not counting the bowling alley.

Elliott Nelson is the definition of American entrepreneur. That guy always has something new in the works and it's cool to see him expanding out of Tulsa with the McNellie's in OKC and Abner's in Norman.

Yeah seriously, and to think he's only 29. I don't know what I'd be doing after work this week without Abner's/McNellie's on Main St. He also has The Colony in Tulsa, on Harvard..forgot about that one. Grand total to 6 in Tulsa, 2 in OKC area..all pretty damn cool. He's also currently looking at Bartlesville and Stillwater. Nelson really is the man.

I'll bite, but only for some points of clarification:

1) The stadium held 9400 for Bedlam. The highest attendance at games of the 2009 Big 12 tournament was around 7500. Stadium size is probably irrelevant.
2) You forgot the Maxx Retropub opening in Blue Dome in June. Other future openings in that area are rumored.
3) The bars and restaurants of the Brady District are approximately the same distance from the stadium as those in the Blue Dome. There are more than enough establishments within walking distance to handle the crowds.
4) Tulsa is bidding for 2012, 2013 and 2014. For the most pessimistic, streetscaping and park development will be complete by then. For the less partisan, it is very likely that further entertainment and hospitality venues will follow. Infill is happening fast, spurred by the stadium opening.

Don't sell Tulsa's budding downtown entertainment areas short. It's different, but it's real.

I'll bite, but only for some points of clarification:

1) The stadium held 9400 for Bedlam. The highest attendance at games of the 2009 Big 12 tournament was around 7500. Stadium size is probably irrelevant.

Don't sell Tulsa's budding downtown entertainment areas short. It's different, but it's real.

What about prior years of the tournament? And, I'm just guessing here, but I would imagine the conference would prefer to put people in seats rather than a patch of grass in the outfield, if for no other reason than the increased revenue.

I am not selling Tulsa's budding downtown entertainment area short. The problem for their Big XII baseball bid is your adjective. It is indeed a "budding" entertainment area.

As I posted earlier, Tulsa's bid will not be considered in a vacuum. And Tulsa's competition has a downtown entertainment area in full bloom, and still continuing to improve as well. It is interesting to note that one of the criticisms about the OKC experience of the KC blogger referenced above was that Bricktown was too spread out. Imagine his reaction to Tulsa's dual budding entertainment areas. They are orders of magnitude more spread out than Bricktown. The Blue Dome and Brady District areas are many years from achieving the dense critical mass necessary to make them real attractive districts because (a) trying to develop two separate areas, rather than focusing on one and (b) there is sooo much vacant land interspersed among the remaining buildings.

The areas are sooo much better than they used to be and I am a huge fan of Elliot Nelson's establishments, but . . .

Bottom line, unless there is some reason we don't know of that the Big XII is unhappy with OKC, it would seem that any move would have to be for some sort of improvement. . . for the fan experience, for the conference revenue . . . something. I don't see anything about a Tulsa bid that would be an improvement for anyone. Quite the opposite.

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

I'm sorry but I can't really see the Big 12 doing anything in Tulsa anytime in the near future. For whatever reason, Tulsa hasn't been considered a Big 12 town. Outside of the schools, there is something like 3 or 4 towns the Big 12 holds events at.

Good point OSU, Tulsa was never much of a Big12 town, another reason I don't see them locating there, especially if they already supposively passed up the DFW area.

It is interesting to note that one of the criticisms about the OKC experience of the KC blogger referenced above was that Bricktown was too spread out.

This blogger has lost all credibility with this statement. Does he think the area around Ballpark in Arlington or the Frisco area isnt spread out? I mean, thats what Dallas is. There isnt a better setup with an appropriately sized ballpark and surrounding hotels/food/entertainment than what OKC has.

In all fairness, I read that entry and that guy was referring (I think) to the 1st round NCAA basketball championship this past March....and his review was mixed, which is a far cry from "very negative" as someone else suggested. Its pretty unfair for him to compare a couple of first round games in OKC versus an entire Big XII Tournament in KC featuring 12 schools (both boys and girls) over a week. Also, I don't know how much partying in the street that guy expected when it was predicted well in advance that we were going to get hit with a snowstorm that weekend.

But I do agree about our setup. Its really very convienent. The American Airlines Center in Dallas has very few restaraunts within short walking distance...largely because the Victory Development right next to it has been such a bust in terms of retail and restaraunts. There are a lot of places in Uptown and the West End but both are a pretty good hike from the center. As far as the Ballpark in Arlington...yeah, pretty much a sea of concrete, but you are next to Six Flags!

As far as Tulsa is concerned, it could very well rival Bricktown in density in the future, but not now. Yeah there are a lot of plans in place, but people in OKC and Tulsa are plenty famailar with how "plans" can turn out. The Big 12 will determine what city is better prepared for hosting the tournament based on things existing now.

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

Not in its current form, IMO. Oklahoma could be SEC country by then, and that opens up a whole new can of worms..

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

this post is probably most relevant now with all the talk that is going on lol

The U.S. Open and PGA Championship are pretty big events.

^^ My bad,I forgot! The Big 12 Baseball tourney is an annual event in OKC,The US open and PGA champ. is not,at least in Tulsa!that is what I was trying to get at,sorry!

Is the Big 12 conference even going to exist in 2014?

This is the best point raised in the entire thread. Economic development is kind of the trade of all trades. In order to be successful you have to know a little bit about everything, and specialize each week in something different that you're targeting. It keeps looking worse and worse for the Big 12..the north seems to want out. A lot has been made out of Nebraska and Mizzou going to the Big Ten but I also think CU has been talking to the Pac Ten, leaving just the Kansas schools and Iowa State, who would be killed in whatever conference they join.

Also, from the Big 12's perspective, they're looking at this in terms of how they can break host sites up. They have a lot of different tournaments and a lot of different cities competing for those tournaments, and they like to anchor the tourneys. In my opinion OKC needs to focus on preventing this from happening, because YES the baseball and softball tourneys have been anchored in OKC (to more extent than any other tourneys have been anchored somewhere) the BIG prize that OKC needs to hone in on is the basketball tourney, which will be anchored in KC if OKC doesn't prevent it.

In my opinion the Big 12 Baseball tourney doesn't even matter. Yes, OKC is the most logical site by far for it, and yes--OKC's done a great job on it. But it doesn't compare to the basketball tourney for economic development, let alone just what basketball has done to elevate OKC's national image in such a short period of time. We need basketball more than we need baseball, by far.

Tulsa needs to be recognized as a legitimate threat for a few reasons. Not just because Tulsa is a great city that's finally coming alive in a big way, but also because we need challengers to the baseball in order for us to be a challenger to the basketball. If basketball gets anchored at the amazing Sprint Center, despite how well OKC has done hosting it in our own right, that's the bigger battle that we can't afford to lose. Is Brassfield and the All Sports Association apt to keep that from happening, or will we need a lot of politicking on behalf of the Big 12 South, or what? No way to tell.

As for OU/OSU joining the SEC, in my opinion that's the likely scenario for when the Big 12 collapses--which sucks in my opinion because of how strong the Big 12 could be if it stayed together. But I guess that was its major benefit and its fatal flaw in the same. What would work best though is if OU and Texas got together again and created another predecessor conference that included a lot more of the up-and-coming schools in the region and stayed geographically anchored on the South-Central region exclusively. Get Arkansas to come back from the SEC, add Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, and so on. Schools that have a good history, that are decent in football, "superb" in at least one sport (Rice baseball, SMU history, TCU football, etc). A conference such as that would look like this: OU, Texas, OSU, Arkansas, Tech, A&M, TCU, KU, K-State, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice. That would still be one of the best conferences in the nation..competitive with the SEC, and still better than the Big Ten, and more importantly, you would be putting together a good combination of up-and-coming teams with schools that have a lot of history, not to mention history with each other (Arkansas/Texas, OSU/Arkansas, etc) that haven't been together in a while.

OKC and Dallas would easily be the anchors of such a conference...

The Big 12 Tournament should be at Bricktown, but Frisco is hardly "overgrown".

Frisco is actually pretty awesome for a suburb an hour away from DTD..

Get Arkansas to come back from the SEC, add Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice, and so on. Schools that have a good history, that are decent in football, "superb" in at least one sport (Rice baseball, SMU history, TCU football, etc). A conference such as that would look like this: OU, Texas, OSU, Arkansas, Tech, A&M, TCU, KU, K-State, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice. That would still be one of the best conferences in the nation..competitive with the SEC, and still better than the Big Ten, and more importantly, you would be putting together a good combination of up-and-coming teams with schools that have a lot of history, not to mention history with each other (Arkansas/Texas, OSU/Arkansas, etc) that haven't been together in a while.

OKC and Dallas would easily be the anchors of such a conference...


1.) As it currently stands the Big 12 is not going to host a conference championship in Tulsa. Not happening. I've said it a million times but the Big 12 doesn't consider Tulsa a "Big 12" town. That is not a knock on Tulsa either. Tulsa is not a threat to take anything from OKC when it comes the conference championships.

2.) Why the heck would Arkansas leave the SEC? This is all about money and tv contracts. The conference movements have little or nothing to do with on the field results.

3.) A conference of OU, Texas, OSU, Arkansas, Tech, A&M, TCU, KU, K-State, Tulsa, TCU, SMU, Houston, Rice is not happening. Remember it is all about TV sets.

With Texas and Texas A&M you have all the TV sets in Texas. Adding TCU, SMU, Houston and Rice gives you nothing. We have our private school in Baylor, why kick them out and add Tulsa?

Basically, you have the Big 12 kicking out a bunch of teams and adding other teams that at the most keep the conference the same but more than likely make it a lot, lot worse. There is a reason the SWC didn't work.

From your post, I gather two contradicting points: An expanded version of the SWC would fail because it capitalizes more with field results and not TV sets, and going after teams that would bring in TV sets is not going to be successful in getting them to join (like Arkansas).

Also metro, check out these pics of Blue Dome/Brady/Greenwood..very impressive photos:

I give you Tulsa - SkyscraperCity (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1106119)

Frisco is actually pretty awesome for a suburb an hour away from DTD..

It really is. The area between Pizza Hut Park and City Hall has amazing potential.

However, the ballpark area resembled the Quail Springs area...cars only.

Shouldn't Tulsa try to host tournament events within Conference USA?

From your post, I gather two contradicting points: An expanded version of the SWC would fail because it capitalizes more with field results and not TV sets, and going after teams that would bring in TV sets is not going to be successful in getting them to join (like Arkansas).

How is that contridiction? Arkansas has no reason to leave the SEC. It would be great if the Big 12 could get Arkansas. They just have no reason to join. Not enough money.

Shouldn't Tulsa try to host tournament events within Conference USA?

Tulsa hosted the 2010 Conference USA basketball tournament, the 2008 Conference USA football championship game and the 2004 and 2008 NCAA Tennis Championships.

How is that contridiction? Arkansas has no reason to leave the SEC. It would be great if the Big 12 could get Arkansas. They just have no reason to join. Not enough money.

I think Arkansas would benefit from more high-profile games with UT, A&M, OU, and OSU. They have a history with UT and OSU, last year they signed a rivalry series with A&M at JerryWorld, and who wouldn't want to have a high-profile series with OU. Those would all be big-money scenarios. Arkansas vs. LSU, Bama, Florida...big-money scenarios for the other schools, not Arkansas. Frank Broyles might listen.

what will happen if the big 12 falls apart

texas, texas a&m - SEC

OU, OSU - Pac 10.

that is all.