I agree that we should have 2 or even 3 different concepts offered at MG.

1) upscale restaurant
2) hip 'chain'
3) kiosk

- Upscale Restaurant would be along the lines that you see at Central Park or Vancouver's Stanley Park. The restaurant would employ NORMAL restaurant hours (brunch, lunch, dinner) and would be located (at least partially) with a water view and patio. Maybe it could also have a section with a "view" of the inside of the conservatory. Dress code would be slightly more 'business casual', although the patio could be more 'casual' and they could have specific days/times for different codes. ... The menu would be upscale dining with emphasis on seafood, vegetarian, and organic. A very good example is Vancouver's spectacular Fish House The Fish House in Stanley Park (http://www.fishhousestanleypark.com/).

- Hip 'Chain' would be a smaller restaurant that would be open for lunch and dinner (early dinner). It would primarily be a walk up variety but would also have inside dining and patio space. The restaurant would serve 'american comfort foods' but with an emphasis on organic and natural. It would be very hip, employing urban design and 'entertainment' options yet still tie to the 'gardens'. It would be located closer to the street, near the CBD or Devon entrance or possibly on the south east. It would be run by either a very good local or a nationally recognized "must have" hip chain - like Shake Shack or the equivalent. Dress code would be casual. The idea here is, have a small hip restaurant that places OKC on the map with visitors yet 'introduces them' to OKC and the gardens.

- Kiosk would be like pictures shown earlier and there could be more than one (I think 4 would be the maximum though). Kiosk would be located near the entrance(s) and/or prime gathering spot(s). The kiosk(s) would serve primarily soup, salad, and sandwiches - and (again) emphasis would be on local produce and products. Kiosk would be open for breakfast and lunch, maybe also early dinner/snack. Also, Kiosk should specialize on healthy DRINKS (smoothies, fresh organic juices, etc) and fruits/vegetables.

With these 3 restaurant/dining options, MBG would satisfy a wide range of consumers while keeping the gardens busy with patrons, tourists, and downtown workers throughout the day. Each type of dining option would have a specific audience or appeal but ALL would welcome everyone. Gardens' visitors could chose from something more OKC/local and/or fast to something more national/hip or slow/relaxed; MGB would satisfy all. I also think all 3 restaurant types should emphasize sustainability and nature, using recyclable materials and the park itself having a plethora of recycling recepticles available.

One thing I DONT want to see in MBG is ANYTHING that is already in Bricktown or downtown, sorry. I also DONT want to see the typical Okie burgers or "mexican"; MBG should be a DRAW on it's own and offer a complete experience that can't be found elsewhere in downtown (or even the city/state).

About the Kiosks, I also could see them ALSO located in the new Central Park and maybe a DIFFERENT upscale restaurant or two also located there. But I wouldn't want EXACT duplication (other than the kiosks). ...

In developing new product we start first with defining the market we are trying to reach. So, who exactly are we trying to appeal to? Visitors and sightseers at the Crystal Bridge? Downtown workers? Upscale workers or lower paid workers? Are we trying to get people to linger? Or to come eat and get back to work quickly? Men..women...children...or all? Attract new visitors or cater to the those already coming downtown? Etc., etc., etc.

Until you fully define who you are trying to attract and why, it is very difficult to project the requirements. Trying to appeal to everyone doesn't work. It doesn't work to generally fire a shot a a flock of ducks...to hit one you need to aim at ONE and hit it.

What are the objectives of the restaurant?

Because they have a very nice menu and their foods are well-prepared, that's why I mentioned them? I have no idea why it would be half empty. I've never had a bad meal there. It's a bit out of the way for the casual diner, however, and parking can be a pain in the neck. But, if I worked downtown and wanted to have a nice meal, the Museum Cafe would be high on my list.

I stated their food was good, but I've seen it more half empty than full, and I live just blocks from it and go by there all the time.


Everytime I've been to the museum cafe it's been quite busy. Maybe you're going during the dinner hour when yes, it's more hit and miss. But I wouldn't describe the museum cafe as a failure.

As I stated above, the food is good, I said nothing about "failure", but if we're going to have a signature restaurant in the gardens, we can't afford for it to be "hit or miss during the dinner hour." Yes, their lunches are usually a little busier, but they are not consistently busy as we hope the MBG restaurant would be as a signature restaurant to OKC.

In developing new product we start first with defining the market we are trying to reach. So, who exactly are we trying to appeal to? Visitors and sightseers at the Crystal Bridge? Downtown workers? Upscale workers or lower paid workers? Are we trying to get people to linger? Or to come eat and get back to work quickly? Men..women...children...or all? Attract new visitors or cater to the those already coming downtown? Etc., etc., etc.

Until you fully define who you are trying to attract and why, it is very difficult to project the requirements. Trying to appeal to everyone doesn't work. It doesn't work to generally fire a shot a a flock of ducks...to hit one you need to aim at ONE and hit it.

What are the objectives of the restaurant?

all the above, that's why I recommended we implement 3 different types of food establishments. With this, MBG would become more than 'just a gardens' or 'just another urban park', it would become a true Destination.

I know this is likely a pipe dream, but maybe this would be enough of a signature location to go after Rick Bayless to open a concept in his hometown. This is assuming people of the city could manage to avoid lumping such a restaurant in the same category as all of the Tex-Mex places swarming the metro area, otherwise it would be pointless.

Great idea, yes FritterGirl, please solicit Rick Bayless. It's worth a shot, even if it is a long one.

In developing new product we start first with defining the market we are trying to reach. So, who exactly are we trying to appeal to? Visitors and sightseers at the Crystal Bridge? Downtown workers? Upscale workers or lower paid workers? Are we trying to get people to linger? Or to come eat and get back to work quickly? Men..women...children...or all? Attract new visitors or cater to the those already coming downtown? Etc., etc., etc.

Until you fully define who you are trying to attract and why, it is very difficult to project the requirements. Trying to appeal to everyone doesn't work. It doesn't work to generally fire a shot a a flock of ducks...to hit one you need to aim at ONE and hit it.

What are the objectives of the restaurant?

Hi Rover,

Critical questions, all. We are working diligently with the consulting group to define these specific target demographics. What I can tell you thus far is this:

1) Cafe will be targeted towards the casual downtown worker / tourist who is looking for a quick dine-in or carry-out experience. The cafe is adjacent to the Children's Garden and right next to the west border where there will be multiple outdoor tables and chairs for people to sit and enjoy the outdoor environment. As proposed, the cafe will also have chairs and tables indoors, but there is still consideration about the level of service (full service waitstaff vs. counter order & pick-up).

2) Restaurant is a bit more complex as there is a desire to look for a concept that will appeal to the downtown suit & tie folks as well as tourists during the day, but not be so elegant as to alientate sports or concert-goers before events at the Ford Center.

The price point for the restaurant will obviously be higher than the cafe, and would offer a variety of dishes at a variety of prices.

The "concept" here is what most is in question. As tuck noted, the consulting group met with him as well as other local restaurateurs to talk about those very things. Those will go into their findings as we move forward.

Hope this helps.

I'll be sending the link to this discussion to the consultants today. Great ideas, all. Keep 'em coming.

I think a few out of state burger concepts would do very well: Something along the lines of Snuffer's (Dallas), Bobby's Burger Palace (Bobby Flay), or Five Guys.

I also think a CoolGreens would do well for a 'healthier' and local option...

...

The price point for the restaurant will obviously be higher than the cafe, and would offer a variety of dishes at a variety of prices. ...

This is something the City needs to approach very carefully in determining the lease for the spaces. Don't want to make it so high that you end up with a $10 hot dog. Maybe better to approach it the same way they did the Thunder lease...a "break-even philosophy".

With the cafe and restaurant another smaller concept......

people's pops (http://www.peoplespops.com/peoples_pops.html)

I'm not sure how big of a location we are talking about but I think a Sweet Tomatoes would be a good fit. It is salad bar buffet with soups, breads, desserts, and pizza for kids. Our family really likes it and there aren’t any in Oklahoma.

Souplantation & Sweet Tomatoes : Family Friendly Salad Bar & Buffet (http://www.souplantation.com/)

Menu for May 11, 2010
Lunch
Tossed Salads
Azteca Taco w/ Turkey
Monterey Blue w/ Peanuts (Vegetarian)
Won Ton Chicken Happiness
Caesar Salad Asiago (Non-Vegetarian)

Prepared Salads
Tuna Tarragon
Baja Bean & Cilantro (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Spicy Southwestern Pasta (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Joan's Broccoli Madness (Non-Vegetarian)
Provencal Green Bean & Potato (Vegan)

Soups
Deep Kettle House Chili (Low-Fat)
Old Fashion Vegetable (Low-Fat, Vegetarian)
Cream of Mushroom (Non-Vegetarian)
U.S. Senate Bean w/ Smoked Ham
Big Chunk Chicken Noodle (Low-Fat)
Classical Minestrone (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Classic Shrimp Bisque
Chicken Dijon (Reduced Sodium)
Texas Longhorn Beef Chili

Bakery
Wildly Blue Blueberry Muffin
Buttermilk Cornbread (Low-Fat)
Chocolate Brownie Muffin
Apple Cinnamon Bran Muffin (96% Fat-Free)
Quattro Formaggio Focaccia

Hot Pastas & Kitchen Favorites
Penne Arrabbiatta (Vegetarian)
4 Cheese Alfredo (Vegetarian)
Macaroni & Cheese (Vegetarian)

Desserts
Vanilla Pudding
Gelatin (Fat-Free)


Dinner
Tossed Salads
Azteca Taco w/ Turkey
Monterey Blue w/ Peanuts (Vegetarian)
Won Ton Chicken Happiness
Caesar Salad Asiago (Non-Vegetarian)

Prepared Salads
Tuna Tarragon
Baja Bean & Cilantro (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Spicy Southwestern Pasta (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Joan's Broccoli Madness (Non-Vegetarian)
Provencal Green Bean & Potato (Vegan)

Soups
Deep Kettle House Chili (Low-Fat)
Old Fashion Vegetable (Low-Fat, Vegetarian)
Cream of Mushroom (Non-Vegetarian)
U.S. Senate Bean w/ Smoked Ham
Big Chunk Chicken Noodle (Low-Fat)
Classical Minestrone (Low-Fat, Vegan)
Classic Shrimp Bisque
Chicken Dijon (Reduced Sodium)
Texas Longhorn Beef Chili

Bakery
Wildly Blue Blueberry Muffin
Buttermilk Cornbread (Low-Fat)
Chocolate Brownie Muffin
Apple Cinnamon Bran Muffin (96% Fat-Free)
Quattro Formaggio Focaccia

Hot Pastas & Kitchen Favorites
Penne Arrabbiatta (Vegetarian)
4 Cheese Alfredo (Vegetarian)
Macaroni & Cheese (Vegetarian)

Desserts
Vanilla Pudding
Gelatin (Fat-Free)
Apple Cobbler

For the restaurant, I might suggest something like a Balthazar's in New York City. It is a classic restaurant that serves both locals and tourists equally well and becomes a destination. Offers light to full meals, but all of high quality. But, it also has a semi attached bakery/confectionary which draws people to come sit in the afternoon or late and to drink coffee/cappucino/expresso and have a nice dolce to go along with it. It also does a robust carry-out from its bakery too, so it would serve the offices, take home for unique deserts, and tourists stopping for an afternoon tea equally well.

Balthazar Restaurant :: Home (http://www.balthazarny.com/)

No Starbucks please. Go with some place like Vintage or, as much as I hate to say it, Coffee Slingers (I hate CS but they have a good product).

We have several good shops in OKC that can, and do, serve better product than anything you'll find at a starbucks.

Balthazar's Bakery is amazing! I'd definitely welcome them to OKC.

I'll bet the LaBaguette people could develop a faux Balthazars and do a great job with it. They are already at the Colcord. They could do a modern rendition of the decor to fit in with the modern Devon tower look and feel.

For the cafe, knock off Brooklyn Diner, at a lower price point for Oklahoma. Great breakfasts. The BEST mac and cheese, burgers, dogs, salads, etc.

And at the street level...5 Guys burgers.....Simple...totally tasty burgers, limited menu and at great prices.


And while we are at it, can we add a Le Train Bleu over at the RR Station. :kicking:

I don't know, it's hard to beat the mac and cheese at Red Prime and Iron Starr, but I do agree about 5 guys burgers.

Brooklyn Diner in Manhattan has an incredible Mac and Cheese that is a meal in itself. Good stuff. Other items are diner foods done very well...not your side of the road pre-Dennys. Breakfasts with things like "Birds in a nest" (Eggs fried in holes of Texas toast), great bagels, hamsteaks, etc.

It would be a great fit in downtown OKC. We have local restauranteurs that can pull it off great. The stainless steel diner building would look great in the new park. Sunday morning patio seating would be fabulous amongst the trees and flowers of the new park.

Just sayin...

No Starbucks please. Go with some place like Vintage or, as much as I hate to say it, Coffee Slingers (I hate CS but they have a good product).

We have several good shops in OKC that can, and do, serve better product than anything you'll find at a starbucks.

thanks Euphoria!

Yes, but what CS and others fail to take into account is that Starbucks is not just about the coffee. It is a destination and represents a style to a lot of people. It is comfortable and chic and a place to be seen. Many times local businesses build out on the cheap or funky and fail to understand that there is often more of a "product" to create than the actual product they create. You can't just open any place, throw something together and make it a desired spot to shop. CS may have fine coffee offerings but is about as comfortable as sitting in a factory. It is not appealing or comfortable and has an echo to it. I don't particularly want my conversations heard across the room at the same level as across the table. So, when our local owners start truly understanding and caring to all facets of their business they will be more successful than the chains. Otherwise, the well designed chains with good (not great) products will still rule. It takes more than an average or above average product to have a great business.

So, when our local owners start truly understanding and caring to all facets of their business they will be more successful than the chains. Otherwise, the well designed chains with good (not great) products will still rule.

some of us do understand that. :sofa:

Yes, absolutely some do understand and they do a good business. Vintage is a much better competitor to Starbucks than is CS, imho. There are some however who think that if you are local it is a free pass to offer less value to the customer (can be in quality, ambiance, novelty, etc.). All things being equal, I think all of us would rather frequent local businesses.

To the subject of the thread, for visitors sometimes the familiar name of the national named restaurant is a draw. People will seek out a Cheesecake Factory but someone from Omaha has no clue to even look for the Metro or what it is. So the target of the restaurant will help dictate concept and who it is.

I'm not going to disagree with you, because sometimes you are right. On the other hand, there are people who like, when they're on vacation, to go places they've never been before.

What will be really important for all of our restaurants, is lots of information on local eateries available at hotels. I've frequently picked out a restaurant from a menu in a hotel, and then gone to find it.

I agree. So for the purpose of this thread, in my humble opinion, if there are three concepts, there should be one that is of national note that might draw out of towners (like a 5 Guys Burgers, etc.) Then one should be a local "find". It should be the one used most often by the downtowners - maybe the dining room and bakery. That way, if the tourists come because they recognize the national name, they might be lured into coming back to their local discovery and its wonderful local flavors. The third food concept might actually be kiosks or carts like fresh crepes, gellatos, Indian taco's, etc.) - grab and go on the cheap.

Just a thought.

How much fun to have a creperie in a cart. What a great idea!

Crepe stands are one of my very favorite things about Paris in the fall. Fresh apricot crepes and the smell wafting through the park. A hot cup of coffee and a fresh crepe.

Excuse me while I go book a flight to Paris.

Most chains aren't going to be interested in this project. The foot traffic is unproven; they don't build restaurants in areas without a successful history in most cases. They are in it for the dollar...that's it!

I have read some great ideas here, but everyone needs to understand that the operator needs to make a profit. A one-unit coffee shop is not a gold mine in OKC. A Bakery will not work in a park. I love Balthazar's, but wouldn't recommend for this project.

Keep the ideas coming!!

A bakery across the street from Devon can work. But, Balthazars is not JUST a bakery. It is a dining room and a SMALL bakery. And it is the retail section which doesn't have to be the actual baking area.

With the tower across the street there is a built-in foot traffic. Built-in exposure. We are talking about restaurants confined in a 1 sq block park...not in the middle of a largecentral park. Big difference.

The problem with many of the small local restaurantuers is that there is a horrible lack of vision and creativity. This is why so many fail. I am sure most thought Big Truck Tacos was not a good idea. Thank goodness we have a few that dare to try.

So offer watered down "safe" projects and then be amazed when people don't get excited.

Most chains aren't going to be interested in this project. The foot traffic is unproven; they don't build restaurants in areas without a successful history in most cases. They are in it for the dollar...that's it!

I have read some great ideas here, but everyone needs to understand that the operator needs to make a profit. A one-unit coffee shop is not a gold mine in OKC. A Bakery will not work in a park. I love Balthazar's, but wouldn't recommend for this project.

Keep the ideas coming!!

Tuck, please share some of your thoughts on what you recommend, we'd love to hear!

Tuck, please share some of your thoughts on what you recommend, we'd love to hear!

I'm going to hang on to my ideas right now; plan to share with the planning group very soon. You understand, right?

totally, just trying to see if there was anything you could share at this point. we'll stay tuned.

It will be interesting if the local interests actually propose something leading or just try to scare the city from trying to agressively pursue quality concepts even though they might be "chains".

This is a unique park in a unique position across the street from a huge corporate complex. Not exactly unpredictable for foot traffic. Not exactly hidden from view.

Hope our city keeps thinking bigger and better.

I totally agree with Tuck. Chains usually don't try the unusual places. They look at traffic counts and population density. The park has neither currently, so it will be up to the local restauranteers to come up with some awesome concepts.

I am excited to see what happens. I have a good feeling that we will be impressed with what the city plans.

Yes, but what CS and others fail to take into account is that Starbucks is not just about the coffee. It is a destination and represents a style to a lot of people. It is comfortable and chic and a place to be seen. Many times local businesses build out on the cheap or funky and fail to understand that there is often more of a "product" to create than the actual product they create. You can't just open any place, throw something together and make it a desired spot to shop. CS may have fine coffee offerings but is about as comfortable as sitting in a factory. It is not appealing or comfortable and has an echo to it. I don't particularly want my conversations heard across the room at the same level as across the table. So, when our local owners start truly understanding and caring to all facets of their business they will be more successful than the chains. Otherwise, the well designed chains with good (not great) products will still rule. It takes more than an average or above average product to have a great business.


I totally agree. And, as you said in your later post Vintage is a better competitor because the atmosphere is more comfortable and is closer to what people think of when they want coffee. Simple, cozy, and moderately classy would be the way to go in my opinion. In a perfect world we'd have something that's a mix of Vintage and Prairie Thunder. Good focus on quality and customer service and the atmospheres of both businesses are very comfortable.

Yes, it's a pipe dream.

It will be interesting if the local interests actually propose something leading or just try to scare the city from trying to agressively pursue quality concepts even though they might be "chains".

This is a unique park in a unique position across the street from a huge corporate complex. Not exactly unpredictable for foot traffic. Not exactly hidden from view.

Hope our city keeps thinking bigger and better.

But really, I'm trying (hard) to think of a chain that can compete with many of our local restaurants. I can't really think of any steakhouse chains that are better than Red Prime or the Ranch, for example. Now, if we could get a Tao, I'd be interested, but for the most part, I love our local options.

There are a few local restaurant entrepreneurs who try diffferent and more daring concepts and they are rewarded. Places like CoolGreens comes to mind as an exception. However, most locals are very SAFE and don't do advanced concepts or other than the same old same old. All you have to do is go to other cities and see what I mean. Many local restaurants want to serve average food and charge premium prices and then complain that locals don't support them. Sorry, but it is true. And another steakhouse is not a new, bold or advanced concept.

I hope someone proves me wrong, but if we end up with another bland restaurant with no imagination then don't be surprised when it struggles or fails.

I'm not sure how daring concepts need to be. Good food is more important than unusual food, to my way of thinking. I've been to some restaurants where the food, although pretty, has a combination of flavors and textures that overwhelms the palate, all in the name of daring. We can have unusual concepts that fail, and that's worse than more pedestrian ones that succeed, to my way of thinking.

I think we've got a lot of restaurants that serve food that is far better than average. It just may not be unusual AND above average. Obviously that can be improved upon, but I see lots of changes in a good way in the restaurants we have here.

I spend a lot of time visiting family in Chicago and New York, and we always try new restaurants. But, most of the ones we go back to have good food, and frequently the concept is not that unusual. My daughters have a list of restaurants they always want to eat at when they're here, and they can eat anywhere they want in Chicago.

Food doesn't have to be exotic or weird. However concepts can be different and interesting even with traditional elements. There are plenty of places I enjoy here, but few are very forward or outstanding. Even Wichita has greater variety of concepts and more innovation. OKC restaurants are by and large good but outstanding is rare here. Sorry. Just my humble opinion.

But really, I'm trying (hard) to think of a chain that can compete with many of our local restaurants. I can't really think of any steakhouse chains that are better than Red Prime or the Ranch, for example. Now, if we could get a Tao, I'd be interested, but for the most part, I love our local options.

Thought we had a Tao (up on Memorial)?

The real Tao. The one they've got in Manhattan. I think there's one in Las Vegas too, but I don't go to Las Vegas.

Food doesn't have to be exotic or weird. However concepts can be different and interesting even with traditional elements. There are plenty of places I enjoy here, but few are very forward or outstanding. Even Wichita has greater variety of concepts and more innovation. OKC restaurants are by and large good but outstanding is rare here. Sorry. Just my humble opinion.

Would like some examples of concepts you enjoy, from such an expert...thanks!

I agree. So for the purpose of this thread, in my humble opinion, if there are three concepts, there should be one that is of national note that might draw out of towners (like a 5 Guys Burgers, etc.) Then one should be a local "find". It should be the one used most often by the downtowners - maybe the dining room and bakery. That way, if the tourists come because they recognize the national name, they might be lured into coming back to their local discovery and its wonderful local flavors. The third food concept might actually be kiosks or carts like fresh crepes, gellatos, Indian taco's, etc.) - grab and go on the cheap.

Just a thought.

Rover, you and I are in agreement on this and other posts you have made in this thread! Spot on!

As for concepts, I also am interested in your thoughts. I agree that OKC is quite challenged, but I'd like to hear a well-heeled local's prospective since I mostly hit the "not in my town" type of restaurants when I visit 'home/OKC' (as Betts pointed out her daughter's list).

Food doesn't have to be exotic or weird. However concepts can be different and interesting even with traditional elements. There are plenty of places I enjoy here, but few are very forward or outstanding. Even Wichita has greater variety of concepts and more innovation. OKC restaurants are by and large good but outstanding is rare here. Sorry. Just my humble opinion.

Yeah, let's get some examples from the expert! I'm curious how much you've got out in this town. Have you tried 105Degrees, RedPrime, Panchiko Parlor, RePUBlic, Soleil (before it changed to La Baguette in Colcord), Trattoria Il Centro, Stella, or any of our more forward thinking concepts?

Yes, I get out often and have guests from not over all over the country, but foreign guests, as well. My job takes me to virtually every major city in the US and have traveled through about 30 different countries. I have sampled thousands of restaurants from hole in the wall places in China to the best restaurants in Paris and elsewhere. While I don't qualify as an expert or gormand, I do have extensive experience (I love to eat and treat it like a hobby) and definite likes and dislikes. I also have spent considerable time in Lyon, France and Geneva, whom many consider gastronomic centers of the world). I have enjoyed virtually every catagory of food in its native area. So, sorry some get bent out of shape that I express my opinions from comparisons I have personally made.

I have been to virtually all on your challenge list. 105Degrees - No (it just hasn't worked out but am anxious to try), RedPrime (yes, multiple), Panchiko Parlor (not a fan but that is just me), RePUBlic (yes - atmosphere great, service was below avg. and food pretty mediocre), Soleil (liked it but I thought it was expensive for the quality) and it wasn't special (before it changed to La Baguette in Colcord) (happen to like LaBaguette and that is who I thought could pull off a "Balthazar" for MG), Trattoria Il Centro (multiple times - food just okay - good enough Italian for OKC), Stella (tried to go last week and it was party days and couldn't get in).

I enjoy Cheevers, Iron Star, 1492, Cafe do Brazil, Metro, Big Truck Tacos, Coachhouse, Boulevard, Micky Mantles, The Mantle, Vito's, The Grand, Cool Greens, 501, Red Prime, The Wedge, Little Germany, Nomad, Cattlemens, and I am sure I am leaving out other locals. I didn't say I don't have ones I enjoy here and ones that are quite good. But those would not be leading or innovative (save Big Truck and Cool Greens) restaurants in many large cities. We lack great bakeries, Middle Eastern, Italian, Greek, Thai, seafood and in my humble opinion, Mexican food options. Our steak houses (Ranch, Boulevard, Micky Mantles, Mahogany, Opus sometimes) are all very competitive to the national chains (except I think Flemings). I would love some options like McCormick and Schmicks / M&S Grille, Legal Seafood, Roy - some of my favorites. I would even like a Ghengis Grille here. Would LOVE to get our ex-Ok Citian Rick Bayless to open a Frontera Grille or Topolobamo (amazing Mexican food) here in OKC (would he be local or chain then :) )...what better than have a celebrated local return.

By the way, there is a great new coffee/tea/desert shop at 33rd & Bdway extension in Edmond now. Good deserts, atmosphere and a variety of hot drinks. Is the only one of the concept/brand outside of Korea. Locally owned and operated by the owners. It is tasteful and enjoyable.

Rover, FYI Genghi's Grill is building several locations here, see the threads in Food Court. And I totally agree with you about Rick Bayless, maybe not for MGB, but once it's done, Devon's done, I could totally see luring him back to our new Central Park signature restaurant.

XOCO or Frontera Fresco would work at the Park, and are probably more likely to be a moveable concept. And I don't really want any steak chains here competing with our already excellent steak restaurants. I've eaten at all of the above mentioned ones (I have a son who REALLY likes steak so we eat it more than I would ordinarily). I have never had a better steak than the ones I've had at the Ranch and Red Prime. We need to do everything we can to support our local restaurants. But, we have no Chinese restaurant that remotely resembles Tao, so that's why I'm all for it, although I recognize it will not happen. I wouldn't mind someone copying it......

Here's a concept. We could incorporate the strength of the ACM's School of Rock into a local concept like Max's in San Francisco. They employ opera singers as waters and waitresses and it is entertaining while the food is pretty good. Why not have an upscale diner with singing and performing wait staff?

Or, also in San Francisco is Teatro ZinZanni. It is in an old eastern European style circus building and the dinners are intermixed with entertainment of a zany circus style. Think Cirque du Soleil does Juniors. Campy and a great destination. In the park, only open in the evening...one or two shows a night. Seats at most maybe 150-250. Dinner in the round. Amazing fun. Perfect setting in a park. Shoot, if we were willing to make fun of ourselves, we could even do a "Pawnee Bill does Cirque" type of dinner show and showcase the western side of our uniqueness. Think of the fun things we could sell tourists that would promote the show and the city. Something truly unique and unforgettable. Something for tourists to talk about to their friends and for something different for locals to take their guests to. By the way, the performers are the wait staff. Maybe we could get some of our many local celebs to join in for a week or two at a time....like Megan Mullaly. How fun would that be.

Rover, I thought of another world-class concept OKC does have, Table One.

I've heard a little about it, but have no idea where it is. It must keep a really low profile. Give me details. Would love to try the concept. I heard it was going to locate in AA, but I am not aware that it is really open as a business there. Do you have a personal review to share here?

Is this like Bespoke that was in Guthrie a few years ago? Seems like the same concept from what I have heard.

Yeah it kind of operates underground, they don't need to advertise, etc. It's over in the Plaza District and by appointment only. Usually you need a group of 8 or more. They don't have a website, but you can read some reviews online. It's OKC's version of "Top Chef"

Table One: culinary immersion | Oklahoma City Restaurants (http://www.eataroundokc.com/2009/table-one-culinary-immersion/)

Here's a concept. We could incorporate the strength of the ACM's School of Rock into a local concept like Max's in San Francisco. They employ opera singers as waters and waitresses and it is entertaining while the food is pretty good. Why not have an upscale diner with singing and performing wait staff?

Or, also in San Francisco is Teatro ZinZanni. It is in an old eastern European style circus building and the dinners are intermixed with entertainment of a zany circus style. Think Cirque du Soleil does Juniors. Campy and a great destination. In the park, only open in the evening...one or two shows a night. Seats at most maybe 150-250. Dinner in the round. Amazing fun. Perfect setting in a park. Shoot, if we were willing to make fun of ourselves, we could even do a "Pawnee Bill does Cirque" type of dinner show and showcase the western side of our uniqueness. Think of the fun things we could sell tourists that would promote the show and the city. Something truly unique and unforgettable. Something for tourists to talk about to their friends and for something different for locals to take their guests to. By the way, the performers are the wait staff. Maybe we could get some of our many local celebs to join in for a week or two at a time....like Megan Mullaly. How fun would that be.

Sort of an updated Molly Murphy's? I like!

I've heard a little about it, but have no idea where it is. It must keep a really low profile. Give me details. Would love to try the concept. I heard it was going to locate in AA, but I am not aware that it is really open as a business there. Do you have a personal review to share here?

Is this like Bespoke that was in Guthrie a few years ago? Seems like the same concept from what I have heard.

I ate there last night, I'll try and post a review in the Food Court today. All I can say is fantastic! RedPrime and TableOne are definitely the city's jewels in the restaurant biz.

...
We lack great bakeries, Middle Eastern, Italian, Greek, Thai, seafood and in my humble opinion, Mexican food options.

Bakeries - Aside from Prarie Thunder I'll give this one to you.
Middle Eastern - Granted
Italian - Granted
Greek - Granted
Thai - Try Panang at 89th and Penn. I've had Thai in NYC, Seattle, San Fran and Panang can hang with any of them. There are a few other little hole in the wall places that are, apparently, even better. I haven't had the chance to try them yet though.
Seafood - Granted
Mexican - Try driving around in some of the seedier places in OKC. We have some FANTASTIC mexican food here. It's not advertised, promoted, or easily accessed, but it is here. I'm not talking about Tex-Mex crap that's served with orange goop that passes for cheese. It's real deal mexican. I will say we don't have any upscale mexican places but we do have some very good authentic mexican in OKC if you're willing to park in neighborhoods where you're likely to get your car stolen.

Hey, please post some authentic Mex restaurants. I don't mind hole in the wall. Heck, I go to Mexico and outside of the tourist areas there are mostly hole in the walls with great food.

Prairie Thunder is good...wish there was more than one in town. I live and work up north and it isn't easy to get there. I love going to Paris or Florence where there is a great bakery every half block. I am lobbying for one at 150th & Western in the new and empty Italianesque shopping center. So far, no luck.

I forgot in the Middle-Eastern catagory a place called Nunu's on Memorial. Very authentic Lebanese and good quality. I highly recommend it. However, it is the only one in the city with distant second place going to the little deli-grocery at May & NW Expressway.

La Costa (SW 25th & May)

I'll try it. More, more! :smile:

We need a nice seafood restaurant. We do have several currently that specialize in the 'cajun' style/shrimp boil seafood, but I'm talking about a very nice white tablecloth seafood restaurant that serves fresh halibut, wild salmon, king crab legs, whole cold-water lobsters.

I suggest McCormick & Schmick's Seafood. They're already established in Texas and Missouri, and a nice restaurant in the MBG would fit on the route. (If not there, then perhaps AutoAlley, or maybe the 1 North Hudson building or the Hightower building.

Don't think MBG is the place for a nice seafood restaurant as it won't appeal to the masses in this part of the country. Now maybe if we had two restaurants going in that would be fine. Perhaps maybe on the river by boathouse row?

Don't think MBG is the place for a nice seafood restaurant as it won't appeal to the masses in this part of the country. Now maybe if we had two restaurants going in that would be fine. Perhaps maybe on the river by boathouse row?

I disagree. A good part of the clientel for the MBG restuarant is going to be the downtown business community, well-healed locals, as well as out of town conventioneers, who would support such a restaurant.

And no - the type of restaurant I talked about wouldn't fit on the river. Although our existing ones such as Trappers, Pearls, Joes, would. A Mc&S would work well in the gardens, maybe even better in a old building such as what I already mentioned.

Agree to Disagree.