Ok, so I went straight to the source and emailed Maureen Hammond, who is the Director of Operations for the Norman Economic Development Coalition, on the status of University North Park, and this was her response:

NEDC plans to move forward with Phase I development of UNP Corporate Centre this summer. The City of Norman can provide you with an update on Legacy Park and the lifestyle center. Their main number is 321-1600. I hope this helps.

Ok, so I went straight to the source and emailed Maureen Hammond, who is the Director of Operations for the Norman Economic Development Coalition, on the status of University North Park, and this was her response:

NEDC plans to move forward with Phase I development of UNP Corporate Centre this summer. The City of Norman can provide you with an update on Legacy Park and the lifestyle center. Their main number is 321-1600. I hope this helps.

What did they say about Legacy Park and the lifestyle center when you talked to them?

They didn't say anything about the Legacy Park or Lifestyle Center, I suppose its on hold, due to budget issues with the City of Norman. The reason why the corporate campus is moving forward is because the Norman Economic Development Coalition has big demand for the office spaces, and NEDC is doing the construction.

so what about this movie theatre thats also suppose ot be in university park or was that scrapped also?

so what about this movie theater thats also suppose ot be in university park or was that scrapped also?

There was never a movie theater planned for N. Park.

There was a movie theater planned for the UNP in the Lifestyle Center, in conjunction with an open air shopping mall. Nothing has been scrapped, just on hold.

so when do you think they will finally start on this open air mall/lifestyle center and movie theatre project, because norman needs a theatre badly.

so when do you think they will finally start on this open air mall/lifestyle center and movie theatre project, because norman needs a theatre badly.

I really don't believe they will start Corporate Centre, Legacy Park, and LifeStyle Center at the same time. Since phase 1 of Corporate Centre breaks ground this summer, I wouldn't expect Legacy Park, and Lifestyle Center to break ground until next year, more likely Spring/Summer 2011, but I do expect for Legacy Park and LifeStyle Center to be done simultaneously.

Does anyone know if Phase 1 of Corporate Centre includes six buildings, or is the photo on the Norman Economic Development website a master plan?

Does anyone know if Phase 1 of Corporate Centre includes six buildings, or is the photo on the Norman Economic Development website a master plan?

Yes, Phase 1 includes six buildings

There was never a movie theater planned for N. Park.

I've got a pdf from Sooner Investments/Colleit Assoc. that says differerent about the theater.

I think it is planned to be an upscale type indepent movies theatre.

I wish, but I won't hold my breath. My understanding is that they would shoot for any kind of theater they could land.

Legacy Park is on hold. The City of Norman is moving forward with other park projects and those are ahead of Legacy at the moment.

Does anyone know what happened at the last TIF oversight meeting? I was under the impression that it was held April 20th?

The Transcript hasn't had any reporting on it, and the Norman official website seems to run months behind.

I thought all of the estimates and bids expired April 10th. It seems that both the developer and OU are out of money? I remember the mayor saying that it wasn't a problem, the deadlines would be met, no-one would be let out of any obligations.

Nothing has been reported since the election that I can find. All I have seen is the letter this weekend from Mr. Holyfield discussing the meeting. The situation appears dire. When are they planning on telling people what is happening? Does anyone know what is happening?

Yeah, I'll admit I'm a bit out of the loop (maybe thats how the local paper wants it) , but I'll say I have to agree with the general sentiment in the following Op-Ed that Mr T referenced. The last time i visited the area was to eat in April at the Pei Wei, whose quality has gone downfill since first opening. :doh:

I still remember the discussion of the high quality development, etc, etc. that this TIF would bring. the city seems to have been jived talked on this one, by OU and the developer, not to mention the wallop of the national economy doing its fair share. I'd like to know whats really going on...

I still dont understand why the city traded ownership of the convention center attached to the Embassy Suites for the bridge to Brookhaven - that might actually be a good deal for the city in the long run if the district doesnt fully develop and the Embassy Suites gets stuck with an underutilized convention center. But i'm still not convinced construction of the bridge was necessary. anyway...

May 22, 2010
City should cut its losses on TIF

NORMAN — Editor, The Transcript:

At the most recent University Park (UNP) TIF Oversight Committee meeting some members expressed concern and frustration over the status of the TIF and agreement with the developer. It appears that the developer has not met the terms and conditions of all his obligations as provided in the TIF agreement.

The public was told that this would be a spectacular development with high end retailers that would draw consumers from Dallas to Kansas City. What we have is a strip mall that has for the most part retailers in many other parts of the city that duplicate products sold on the TIF.

The major difference in the retail sales is that only a portion of the sales tax (40 percent) generated at the TIF goes into the City’s general fund. The retailers outside of the TIF who played by the rules and paid for their own infrastructure are having customers siphoned off from their respective business. In addition, they are subsidizing their competition with their own tax dollars. These are tax funds being diverted to the TIF that should be going to the general fund to pay employee salaries and maintain the city's essential services.

With the city’s employees facing loss of jobs because of the alleged budget crises, there is no reason why the City should not cut its losses and end its partnership with the developer. The City would begin to receive available tax revenues at the UNP. The public should insist the City Council do so now.

Don Holyfield

Norman

Thanks for linking the letter! I really need to write down how to do that!

Mr. Holyfield is correct - those stores are cannibalizing, not adding value. We already had a pet store and an office store and stores that sell failed clothing lines. We certainly had more than enough stores selling cheap plastic shoes from China. The petroleum smell in the sports store is enough to knock you over. I've noticed, the few times I have been dragged in there, that the employees all cough.

All of the original stores of this nature, whether I enjoy them or not, paid their own way. If I were them I would be seriously angry.

Vital tax money is wasted while faithful City employees lose their jobs and benefits. Employees blame the City, city council blamed the newspaper, and the newspaper blamed the employees for not figuring it out themselves.

I would dearly love to know why Henry Baskeyfield removed the endorsement from Hal Ezell. What was he promised?

I would dearly love to know why Henry Baskeyfield removed the endorsement from Hal Ezell. What was he promised?

That's a very good question. I've heard a lot of people recently express regret at the outcome of that election for precisely some of the reasons discussed here about the TIF. I think Hollyfields letter hits the nail on the head.

Yeah, I'll admit I'm a bit out of the loop (maybe thats how the local paper wants it) , but I'll say I have to agree with the general sentiment in the following Op-Ed that Mr T referenced. The last time i visited the area was to eat in April at the Pei Wei, whose quality has gone downfill since first opening. :doh:

I still remember the discussion of the high quality development, etc, etc. that this TIF would bring. the city seems to have been jived talked on this one, by OU and the developer, not to mention the wallop of the national economy doing its fair share. I'd like to know whats really going on...

I still dont understand why the city traded ownership of the convention center attached to the Embassy Suites for the bridge to Brookhaven - that might actually be a good deal for the city in the long run if the district doesnt fully develop and the Embassy Suites gets stuck with an underutilized convention center. But i'm still not convinced construction of the bridge was necessary. anyway...

May 22, 2010
City should cut its losses on TIF

NORMAN — Editor, The Transcript:

At the most recent University Park (UNP) TIF Oversight Committee meeting some members expressed concern and frustration over the status of the TIF and agreement with the developer. It appears that the developer has not met the terms and conditions of all his obligations as provided in the TIF agreement.

The public was told that this would be a spectacular development with high end retailers that would draw consumers from Dallas to Kansas City. What we have is a strip mall that has for the most part retailers in many other parts of the city that duplicate products sold on the TIF.

The major difference in the retail sales is that only a portion of the sales tax (40 percent) generated at the TIF goes into the City’s general fund. The retailers outside of the TIF who played by the rules and paid for their own infrastructure are having customers siphoned off from their respective business. In addition, they are subsidizing their competition with their own tax dollars. These are tax funds being diverted to the TIF that should be going to the general fund to pay employee salaries and maintain the city's essential services.

With the city’s employees facing loss of jobs because of the alleged budget crises, there is no reason why the City should not cut its losses and end its partnership with the developer. The City would begin to receive available tax revenues at the UNP. The public should insist the City Council do so now.

Don Holyfield

Norman

Mr. Holyfield is spot-on. These developers need to be held to what they originally said they would do, or have their TIF revoked. If having their TIF revoked doesn't make them act, then they need to lose the land. That goes for Sooner Investments or whatever the hell company is the developer, AND for OU.

Now there is a huge rumor of hollywood theatres being completly renovated in september, so i guess that officially means the theatre in UNP has been scrapped. I was even told that UNP put a bid on The Warren back before they settled on moore, but lost the bid obviosuly. So now most norman movie goers spend their money in moore, because look at that parking lot over at hollywood and its empty even on weekends.

Now there is a huge rumor of hollywood theatres being completly renovated in september, so i guess that officially means the theatre in UNP has been scrapped. I was even told that UNP put a bid on The Warren back before they settled on moore, but lost the bid obviosuly. So now most norman movie goers spend their money in moore, because look at that parking lot over at hollywood and its empty even on weekends.

I live in Norman, and I don't think its bad at all to have Warren in Moore, we can't have everything, and I don't mind driving a couple miles up the road for a nice movie theater like The Warren. I know people who drive from OKC and Midwest City to go to The Warren, its just a major attraction, and people would go there, whereever it was located.

I live in Norman, and I don't think its bad at all to have Warren in Moore, we can't have everything, and I don't mind driving a couple miles up the road for a nice movie theater like The Warren. I know people who drive from OKC and Midwest City to go to The Warren, its just a major attraction, and people would go there, whereever it was located.

It's true we lost the bid, partly because our city leaders were very, uh, unaccommodating with Warren business group. While I understand what you're saying, G., it is also undeniable we're losing a lot of business and sale tax dollars to Moore. The Fort Thunder Harley Davidson shop next door to the Warren was also going to come to Norman (they were going wherever Warren went), so we lost that too.

Our city leaders should be more receptive (reasonably, of course) to such businesses in the future, but this one is done and we lost. Let's look forward to getting the next big one looking to move to town.

If the Hollywood is renovated, that would be great news because it's dearly needs it. I would consider going back. Perhaps they'll add an IMAX--that would really help them compete with Warren.

It's true we lost the bid, partly because our city leaders were very, uh, unaccommodating with Warren business group. While I understand what you're saying, G., it is also undeniable we're losing a lot of business and sale tax dollars to Moore. The Fort Thunder Harley Davidson shop next door to the Warren was also going to come to Norman (they were going wherever Warren went), so we lost that too.

Our city leaders should be more receptive (reasonably, of course) to such businesses in the future, but this one is done and we lost. Let's look forward to getting the next big one looking to move to town.

If the Hollywood is renovated, that would be great news because it's dearly needs it. I would consider going back. Perhaps they'll add an IMAX--that would really help them compete with Warren.

I can tell you as a former Ft. Thunder Employee, this statement is 100% false, Norman was never considered when Bryan's/Ft. Thunder was looking for the right place to build their new store. You need a new source for you information.

Well, glad to hear it from you. But my source was the Norman City Council--they've spoken about this several times. So either you're wrong or they were badly misinformed about Ft. Thunder. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was them who were misinformed.

Well keep in mind that Norman is not exactly the most pro-development city in the world in the first place.

The fact that the developer said the center will draw people from Kansas City and Dallas should have been a red flag. Like Dallas and KC folks need to come to Norman to shop, even if upscale retailers did locate in UNP.

The fact that the developer said the center will draw people from Kansas City and Dallas should have been a red flag. Like Dallas and KC folks need to come to Norman to shop, even if upscale retailers did locate in UNP.

The best indicator on if a developer is lying is if they are speaking.

The best indicator on if a developer is lying is if they are speaking.

breathing is a close second at times

Maybe he was talking to Nordstrom.

If the Hollywood is renovated, that would be great news because it's dearly needs it. I would consider going back. Perhaps they'll add an IMAX--that would really help them compete with Warren.

The best thing they could do, is just rebuild at UNP and tear the old one down. Then they can fix that stupid intersection along the service road. Also it would open up for that parcel of land to be used for either a couple more restaurants (cause we don't have enough obviously /sarcasm) or another hotel.

There was never a movie theater planned for N. Park.


I can tell you as a former Ft. Thunder Employee, this statement is 100% false, Norman was never considered when Bryan's/Ft. Thunder was looking for the right place to build their new store. You need a new source for you information.

Based upon the first quote and how you were proved wrong, I am going to go ahead and say you are the one that needs a new source for your information, not king.

Does anyone know why the City keeps cancelling the TIF oversight committee meetings? Four of the last five at least have been cancelled.

The best thing they could do, is just rebuild at UNP and tear the old one down. Then they can fix that stupid intersection along the service road. Also it would open up for that parcel of land to be used for either a couple more restaurants (cause we don't have enough obviously /sarcasm) or another hotel.

All the roads around the UNP are very strange. I have not been able to figure out what they were thinking.

I was suspicious of the project from the beginning. Rarely do directions to Louis Vuitton stores begin with "make a right at the Dress Barn and keep going until you see TJ Maxx"

lol i thought the same thing, how can target, tjmax petco, kohls etc be part of the upscale development..

Because Target, TJ Maxx, Petco, and Kohls were never intended to be part of the upscale development . . .

Pretty obvious the developers made a bit of a mistake not getting the lifestyle center portion of UNP developed first. Most of these centers that I've seen get developed have done the lifestyle center before the surrounding pad sites...we just got messed with on this one.

Sent email to the Norman Economic Development Coalition regarding the University North Park Corporate Center, and this is what they had to say:

"I appreciate your support of economic development.

The project is still mainly the same as it concerns the office park. The national economy has really kept us from recruiting the out of town employers we had hoped for, but we currently have some activity.

We have a total of 60 acres and we are working on using the last 30 for an advanced manufacturing center concept. We are close to our first project in that area. I have attached our brochure which provides more information.

Please let our office know if we can provide additional information."

Don

that sounds horrible.

Where is the discount tire that we were promised.

that sounds horrible.

Where is the discount tire that we were promised.

Nothing says "High End" shopping like Discount Tire.

It is obviously time for them to reconsider the plan for UNP. They really should negotiate a plan with GGP, who owns Sooner Mall, to construct the lifestyle portion of UNP and relocate all the stores from Sooner. Then I would go through there and tear down Sooner Mall and redevelop it as a commercial business park - something we don't have much of here. One that would fill up, I would look at the area south of Main Street and start expanding through there and even relocate the strip mall stores (not the restaurants) to UNP.

When I say business park, I'm thinking something on the scale of: http://www.arrowheadpark.org/APA%20Web%20Site/docs/map-arrowheadpark-2010.pdf

Probably highly unrealistic, but concentrating the bulk of the retail/shopping in one dense location would help the project overall. Then you have the ability to redevelop land as a high density business park that would increase the commercial population of the city and assist with tax revenue (and probably values) even more.

I hope the new Rock Creek I-35 bridge helps relieve some of the congestion on west Robinson

I hope the new Rock Creek I-35 bridge helps relieve some of the congestion on west Robinson

It should, the traffic at Robinson and I-35 is horrible.

This is the progression of this project.

Large mixed-use lifestyle center > Project on hold, give us another year > Just Target strip mall only > Can't get lifestyle center tenants, but here's Discount Tire and Academy > Office portion ready to go > Oops can't get discount tire, office park having trouble now > Instead of office park, howabout a nice new "advanced manufacturing center" instead? > Utter fail?? > Citizens revolt and get their money back?

Maybe just wishful thinking..

I'm still of the opinion that UNP stays a big box center south of Rock Creek (which will soon connect across I-35) and then a mix of offices and higher density residential (apartments) north of Rock Creek to Robinson. There is an opportunity there to have good access to I-35 for residential (esp. for those commuting to OKC) and airport frontage on the east side creates some unique opportunities for aviation-related businesses.

Sooner Mall should remain as it is but should try to lure another retail anchor such as Macy's and maintain or slightly expand their current offering of stores. There is no reason, IMO, for Sooner Mall to not be on par with at least Quail Springs as far as small-format retail offerings. It is the primary retail center for the south metro..

Concentrate the few high-end retail shops that Norman could actually support in a new mixed-use development along University in Campus Corner. Something similar to what they have done along Crockett/West 7th in Fort Worth with stores, restaurants, a small hotel and movie theater.

When did the discount tire deal fall through?

Call me the eternal optimist...obviously though not with the current city leadership. UNP can definitely still be a retail powerhouse if they would work with some additional developers. I've seen new malls/lifestyle centers go up in the rust belt, where economies are in the tank, and absolutely thrive. There is no reason why something couldn't be done with GGP to move the stores in Sooner to a new lifestyle center/mall in UNP - Shops at North Park or whatever you want to call it. Bulldoze Sooner Mall and create a business park. The additional corporate density will help with property values, city income, and just the overall success of the city. Once it gets to a certain point, expand it south along Ed Noble in a mixed residential/commercial format.

Getting pretty off track here I know, but once this is all in place and the corporate population is growing, would extend (and widen) the north-south runway at Westheimer to around 7500' to permit for larger corporate aircraft to fly directly into Norman (granted a lot do now) from distances farther away. Not to mention, also allows OU to travel from the airport on chartered aircraft instead of going to Will Rogers. Of course, I can just hear the complaints now when the first 757 comes into Westheimer.

Anyway, it really is about reinventing Norman to be more self sufficient, which it has the ability to...but Rosenthal needs to wake up and actually do something.

Anyway, it really is about reinventing Norman to be more self sufficient, which it has the ability to...but Rosenthal needs to wake up and actually do something.

I don't have the same vision as you on several things, including UNP/Sooner Mall and Lindsey St, but I completely agree with your statement above. Norman has a lot of potential as a city independent, but still closely tied, to OKC but needs more effective leadership. The I-35 corridor is important but so is the central core and campus area, the part of Norman that makes it unique from anywhere else. We both want to see Norman prosper.

I keep hearing about the bad economy, but the outlet mall and Warren Theatre were built close by. Those may have worked pretty well at UNP?! May have drawn some people (and money) to Norman.

I keep hearing about the bad economy, but the outlet mall and Warren Theatre were built close by. Those may have worked pretty well at UNP?! May have drawn some people (and money) to Norman.

Agree, those would've done well and fit in well at UNP. But it didn't happen.

They probably didn't even think about it. However, I could see Warren wanting Moore over Norman to be a bit closer to pull from North OKC.

This is the progression of this project.

Large mixed-use lifestyle center > Project on hold, give us another year > Just Target strip mall only > Can't get lifestyle center tenants, but here's Discount Tire and Academy > Office portion ready to go > Oops can't get discount tire, office park having trouble now > Instead of office park, howabout a nice new "advanced manufacturing center" instead? > Utter fail?? > Citizens revolt and get their money back?

Maybe just wishful thinking..

The "advanced manufacturing center" has always been a compoent of this development. The far N. section (closer to Tecumseh Rd.) was the section identified for this land use segment.

They probably didn't even think about it. However, I could see Warren wanting Moore over Norman to be a bit closer to pull from North OKC.

I have no idea if this is true, but a business owner in UNP once told me that the Warren was initially supposed to go into UNP but that the city had such ridiculous regulations they eventually started looking elsewhere. Elsewhere ended up being Moore because of all their incentives. One has to wonder if there is some truth to that when you consider the number of plans that have been released showing businesses that ultimately went to Moore instead, Five Guys being a good example.

I have no idea if this is true, but a business owner in UNP once told me that the Warren was initially supposed to go into UNP but that the city had such ridiculous regulations they eventually started looking elsewhere. Elsewhere ended up being Moore because of all their incentives. One has to wonder if there is some truth to that when you consider the number of plans that have been released showing businesses that ultimately went to Moore instead, Five Guys being a good example.

So we aren't getting the 5 guys anymore?

So we aren't getting the 5 guys anymore? I am pretty sure Norman will still be getting a 5 Guys Burgers because their website shows a location "Coming Soon" to Norman. I hope that Norman will eventually step up to the plate and get a few decent shops in that development. UNP has been somewhat of a dissapointment.

So we aren't getting the 5 guys anymore?

5 Guys is going in the same area (under construction) as Zio's, should open early fall.

I have no idea if this is true, but a business owner in UNP once told me that the Warren was initially supposed to go into UNP but that the city had such ridiculous regulations they eventually started looking elsewhere. Elsewhere ended up being Moore because of all their incentives. One has to wonder if there is some truth to that when you consider the number of plans that have been released showing businesses that ultimately went to Moore instead, Five Guys being a good example.

Yeah, it is definitely a trend that Norman is its biggest enemy when it comes to landing new businesses. There is no reason Norman isn't able to compete, effectively, to land companies that are going to OKC or the other suburbs. Unfortunately the mayor and council haven't really shown much willingness to change the way they do business.

I saw where OKC gave an incentive of 7 million plus to attract the outlet mall. Norman would never offer any incentive money...the council would argue about natural development and that everyone should be treated fairly, the little guy would get cheated, and that they could not afford it! This incentive money is small change in comparison to the return OKC will get from it.

that sounds horrible.

Where is the discount tire that we were promised.

Discount Tire is anything but...

They have the highest prices around. Always a little pushy too. "No reason to go anywhere else, we have the lowest prices anywhere". The thing about tires is many shops are the only places to get certain tires, not brands but models. You can't comparison shop. That's my experience anyway.

I saw where OKC gave an incentive of 7 million plus to attract the outlet mall. Norman would never offer any incentive money...the council would argue about natural development and that everyone should be treated fairly, the little guy would get cheated, and that they could not afford it! This incentive money is small change in comparison to the return OKC will get from it.

$7 million to get something like $50 million annually in sales tax revenue. Yeah...terrible. lol

There was a story in the Transcript or DOK about the outlet and the support OKC gave it to land the project. They were very honest about being aggressive to bring in businesses from suburbs to raise the city's sales tax revenues. So the situation for Norman is going to become...do they continue the current "natural development" philosophy and permit OKC and Moore to take business away, or play the same game and lure companies away from surrounding areas.

Eventually the city will need to decide - do they want to be proactive and grow, or settle being a commuter community supporting OKC's growing revenue base.

I saw where OKC gave an incentive of 7 million plus to attract the outlet mall. Norman would never offer any incentive money...the council would argue about natural development and that everyone should be treated fairly, the little guy would get cheated, and that they could not afford it! This incentive money is small change in comparison to the return OKC will get from it.

RE: the little guy would get cheated..... ask all those eating establishments around the Warren Theatre if they would rather have the theatre there or an empty field.