Really!? I guess I'm out of the loop! Where exactly is the crest going to be up at target? ...

Crest will go in to the east (behind) the IBC bank, and the strip of shops that includes Five Guys, Mattress Whichever, Zio's, a game store and a Pearl's eyewear. Initial site work is now underway.

For what it's worth, talked to an assistant at Whole Foods when we were there Saturday who said the next WF will be in Norman. According to him WF had a spot picked but couldn't close the deal and are now looking for another location in Norman. He did say, however, that WF is very methodical when it comes to opening new stores and last he heard it will be 2014 or so before anything is definitized.

I'll believe it when it's built and open for business.

Yeah, me too. I kinda take these with a grain of salt until I see dirt moving and a coming soon sign.

I honestly can't see Whole Foods going into UNP...you are going to have Homeland on the South end, Crest right across the street with Target, and then Walmart NM on the north end. That's just too much in one area. Perhaps a location near downtown would work for them. It would be a short distance from campus and the thousands of people there. It also wouldn't be too difficult to reach by the rest of the Norman populace.

I honestly can't see Whole Foods going into UNP...you are going to have Homeland on the South end, Crest right across the street with Target, and then Walmart NM on the north end. That's just too much in one area. Perhaps a location near downtown would work for them. It would be a short distance from campus and the thousands of people there. It also wouldn't be too difficult to reach by the rest of the Norman populace.

Not trying to change the subject, but they have started the dirt work for the new Walmart NM

What happened to the hotel across from the embassy. Seems like it was announced and they cleared the LAN and now the plot is for sale again.

There seems to be no discussion of this... when did the Starbucks open in UNP? I drove by and saw it bustling with activity yesterday.

There seems to be no discussion of this... when did the Starbucks open in UNP? I drove by and saw it bustling with activity yesterday.

Hadn't noticed. But I also forgot one was even erected in UNP.

I believe it opened in August or September. Seems to be staying busy even with one across the street in Target and also a mile over on 36th.

Yeah, it's been open for a few months now. When it first opened it was a great place to go write because nobody knew it was there yet. Now it's crowded all the time just like all the other locations. *sigh*

update on the crest and 2 other stores

Grocers bite in Norman market; the city expects a Crest Foods, Sprouts Farmers Market and Walmart Neighborhood Market in 2013 | News OK (http://newsok.com/grocers-bite-in-norman-market-the-city-expects-a-crest-foods-sprouts-farmers-market-and-walmart-neighborhood-market-in-2013/article/3757422)

update on the crest and 2 other stores

Grocers bite in Norman market; the city expects a Crest Foods, Sprouts Farmers Market and Walmart Neighborhood Market in 2013 | News OK (http://newsok.com/grocers-bite-in-norman-market-the-city-expects-a-crest-foods-sprouts-farmers-market-and-walmart-neighborhood-market-in-2013/article/3757422)

that sure doesn't look like much brick in the artist rendering.

yeah that is a crappy rendering.

What businesses are going in next to Academy? It looks like several stores are being added to the current building.

DSW and Homegoods are the two additions I am aware of at this time.

Micheal's and Lane Bryant will be moving in there.

Do you think the city of Norman is working to convince GE to build their new $110 million global research center in University of North Park? If GE built the research center in Norman it could really re-energize development in UNP.

Read more: GE to Build Gas-Focused Center in Oklahoma, Create 125 High-Tech Jobs | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2013/04/03/ge-to-build-gas-focused-center-in-oklahoma-create-125-high-tech-jobs/#ixzz2PvU78kwO)

It would be a huge boost if it were to happen. The ability to walk out of your building to your aircraft is also a huge selling point to a company like this. Being near a major university isn't bad either. ;)

I know that last year, the Norman Economic Development Coalition was stating that an Advanced Manufacturing Center was looking to locate in UNP, but it was related to the aerospace industry. I don't know if that project fell through or if its still in the works, because they haven't reported anything on it since like September/October of last year. But if UNP was to get the new GE research center as well as the Advanced Aerospace Manufacturing center, it would be a game changer for UNP. We are talking hundreds of high paying jobs exclusively injected into that area. This would spur economic development from all aspects, retail, residential, and commercial.

Just securing one of these projects would probably finally kick off the long awaited and proposed Lifestyle Center as well as University North Park Corporate Centre.

I know that last year, the Norman Economic Development Coalition was stating that an Advanced Manufacturing Center was looking to locate in UNP, but it was related to the aerospace industry. I don't know if that project fell through or if its still in the works, because they haven't reported anything on it since like September/October of last year. But if UNP was to get the new GE research center as well as the Advanced Aerospace Manufacturing center, it would be a game changer for UNP. We are talking hundreds of high paying jobs exclusively injected into that area. This would spur economic development from all aspects, retail, residential, and commercial.

Just securing one of these projects would probably finally kick off the long awaited and proposed Lifestyle Center as well as University North Park Corporate Centre.

At this point, I think it's almost a certainty that the aerospace facility deal is dead. Too bad we never heard what the details were.

Do you think the city of Norman is working to convince GE to build their new $110 million global research center in University of North Park? If GE built the research center in Norman it could really re-energize development in UNP.

Read more: GE to Build Gas-Focused Center in Oklahoma, Create 125 High-Tech Jobs | Fox Business (http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2013/04/03/ge-to-build-gas-focused-center-in-oklahoma-create-125-high-tech-jobs/#ixzz2PvU78kwO)


It would be a huge boost if it were to happen. The ability to walk out of your building to your aircraft is also a huge selling point to a company like this. Being near a major university isn't bad either. ;)

I dont see an industrial facility that employs only 125 people re-energizing UNP's retail develpment. This GE thing, if it were to locate in UNP, will essentially have no effect on the retail.

Also, the fact that there is an airport nearby doesnt seem like it would be much of a factor in deciding the location. Its not as if GE execs would be flying company jets in and out on a frequent basis. Most GE people coming and going will probably be upper management folks who will be coming in on commercial flights.

I dont see an industrial facility that employs only 125 people re-energizing UNP's retail develpment. This GE thing, if it were to locate in UNP, will essentially have no effect on the retail.

Also, the fact that there is an airport nearby doesnt seem like it would be much of a factor in deciding the location. Its not as if GE execs would be flying company jets in and out on a frequent basis. Most GE people coming and going will probably be upper management folks who will be coming in on commercial flights.

This is not going to stay at 125 employees, it will grow, this was stated by GE.

This is not going to stay at 125 employees, it will grow, this was stated by GE.


Not only that they would be paid well above average wages for engineers who would easily be able to afford well above average goods and services…. Some of these employees will be plenty valuable enough to be flown around by GE planes to visit some of the world’s energy problems. Others, from the energy companies will visit the GE facility by corporate planes. All this + the futuer growth is very good news for Norman retailers.

Not only that they would be paid well above average wages for engineers who would easily be able to afford well above average goods and services…. Some of these employees will be plenty valuable enough to be flown around by GE planes to visit some of the world’s energy problems. Others, from the energy companies will visit the GE facility by corporate planes. All this + the futuer growth is very good news for Norman retailers.

Yes, and after the Norman Economic Development Coalition lost out on the 500 employee PETCO support center to San Antonio a few years ago, D.Woods and the City of Norman have been trying to redeem themselves ever since. Securing this research center in UNP would be a major accomplishment for him and the City of Norman.

I dont see an industrial facility that employs only 125 people re-energizing UNP's retail develpment. This GE thing, if it were to locate in UNP, will essentially have no effect on the retail.

Also, the fact that there is an airport nearby doesnt seem like it would be much of a factor in deciding the location. Its not as if GE execs would be flying company jets in and out on a frequent basis. Most GE people coming and going will probably be upper management folks who will be coming in on commercial flights.

So they only hire employees that don't shop or eat lunch, interesting

I dont see an industrial facility that employs only 125 people re-energizing UNP's retail develpment. This GE thing, if it were to locate in UNP, will essentially have no effect on the retail.

Also, the fact that there is an airport nearby doesnt seem like it would be much of a factor in deciding the location. Its not as if GE execs would be flying company jets in and out on a frequent basis. Most GE people coming and going will probably be upper management folks who will be coming in on commercial flights.


Not trying to nitpick, but if one person out of the 125 people made a purchase at any of the local retail stores. Wouldn't this be considered an effect? I am assuming having close proximity for the 125 people to the retail stores, would have some effect. Though it may not be a large effect, it is definitely a start and would in fact re-energize the building movement. Especially if there is a potential to expand and grow with employees in the future. "Build it and they will come."

Sure, these 125 employees will likely shop there on occassion. So the stores will get a little boost, but nothing major by any means. I mostly meant that this doesnt mean new retailers are going to be lining up to come because of this. Retailers look at much more than that. They look at nearby housetops, income, and traffic count. Someone building a plant nearby for 125 employees, even well paid ones, isnt going to matter all that much to national retailers.

Sure, these 125 employees will likely shop there on occassion. So the stores will get a little boost, but nothing major by any means. I mostly meant that this doesnt mean new retailers are going to be lining up to come because of this. Retailers look at much more than that. They look at nearby housetops, income, and traffic count. Someone building a plant nearby for 125 employees, even well paid ones, isnt going to matter all that much to national retailers.

There will be 125 PhD level positions in this facility. They are not the only employees that will be in the facility. With engineers comes support staffs... There will be administrative staff, management staff, cleaning crews, IT staff, maintenance staff, Human Resources... etc...

If UNP lands this facility there WILL be a positive impact to the retail presence in the area... period.

There will be 125 PhD level positions in this facility. They are not the only employees that will be in the facility. With engineers comes support staffs... There will be administrative staff, management staff, cleaning crews, IT staff, maintenance staff, Human Resources... etc...

If UNP lands this facility there WILL be a positive impact to the retail presence in the area... period.

Positive for existing retailers, yes. But Im saying that it wont be a deciding factor for retailers that arent there yet. This wont have much impact on their decision to sign a new lease or not.

Positive for existing retailers, yes. But Im saying that it wont be a deciding factor for retailers that arent there yet. This wont have much impact on their decision to sign a new lease or not.

This GE research center will have collaborating research with OU and very likely with third party researchers from other major corporations and they would likely live in the Norman area. This will create additional direct employment opportunities and if this center grows as many suspect it will create hundreds of additional high paying jobs. It’s the prospect of growth that will make a big difference to some of the high end retailers. Raw job numbers are not the only factor that business looks at. How much disposable income there is becomes a huge component in their decision making process.

I'm more or less looking at the potential GE facility as an anchor to kick off the business park aspect of UNP. Once they are signed, others will follow to start filling in that area.

Norman already has the high profile NOAA weather center.
But as this moves forward Norman / OU will increasingly be known as a place where important research is done.
It will get the attention of the research world.
If the state, Norman and OU will continue its incentive support it will increases the odds of other researchers moving to Norman for their research projects, further elevating Norman/ OU, but also helping the entire state.

This GE research center will have collaborating research with OU and very likely with third party researchers from other major corporations and they would likely live in the Norman area. This will create additional direct employment opportunities and if this center grows as many suspect it will create hundreds of additional high paying jobs. It’s the prospect of growth that will make a big difference to some of the high end retailers. Raw job numbers are not the only factor that business looks at. How much disposable income there is becomes a huge component in their decision making process.

Retailers have no idea of what employees make at nearby businesses. They do know what the income is of nearby households though (I think we can assume not all of these engineers will be living within a 5 mile radius). And thats more of a factor on picking locations. Not saying this wont be positive but I think yall are overstating GE's capability of luring new retailers to come.

I think Im done arguing this though seeing how no one even knows where GE is going to build this thing. I should have stayed off this thread like I do the mystery tower thread, the rampant speculation gets old. But being in the retail/real estate business, I just wanted to correct some misinformation I read.

Retailers have no idea of what employees make at nearby businesses. They do know what the income is of nearby households though (I think we can assume not all of these engineers will be living within a 5 mile radius). And thats more of a factor on picking locations. Not saying this wont be positive but I think yall are overstating GE's capability of luring new retailers to come.

I think Im done arguing this though seeing how no one even knows where GE is going to build this thing. I should have stayed off this thread like I do the mystery tower thread, the rampant speculation gets old. But being in the retail/real estate business, I just wanted to correct some misinformation I read.

The smart retailer’s absolutely having a very decent idea of what high end employees make (disposable income) at a major nearby business. I know this because of past personal contacts with the Dallas area Chamber of commerce.
They have this stuff down to an art and science.

If you work in retail/real estate you know how much big data is used by groups making commercial deals. That data includes the number of high paying jobs are in the local area. The GE center alone would not make a major impact but if GE moves into the area several other business are going to move into UNP because they directly provide B2B service/sales to GE or because they want their company to be near a major player. Imagine this elevator pitch from a strong startup: Hi I'm from ABC Energy and we are on Walnut street or Hi I'm from ABC Energy and we are located next to GE. Which one grabs your attention?
When GE builds they will draw other industries to build near their research center. Five hundred well paid employees in the area will make a significant impact by adding to the number of high income people working and/or living in Norman.

looks like steel work finally started on crest.

Here is a portion of the Norman City Council Conference Minutes from March 12, 2013 regarding the UNP. There is a lot of interesting information here.

“Mr. Collett provided a site marketing plan composite and highlighted the existing buildings, buildings under construction, and proposed future construction and buildings coming soon to UNP. The plan also reflected Legacy Trail and the pathway/pedestrian path. He said Mathis Brothers and possibly Chuck E. Cheese, will be located on the far north side of UNP (Lot 7) behind Kohl’s and both businesses are very excited to come to Norman. Currently infrastructure needs are being studied and developers foresee the area being viable sooner, rather than later. Mr. Collett felt more family and home-related businesses would follow. He said a contract is underway but not completed with Residence Inn Hotel and feels certain that it will transpire within a year. Mr. Collett said the Town Center has engaged in meetings, various real estate conventions, and active discussions with tenants that UNP Development has always dreamed of having. He said approaching the Town Center, the architecture “steps up” as people and/or vehicles proceed which has always been the intention.

Mr. Collett provided an overview of the current and proposed pedestrian path beginning at the entrance wall features into UNP as well as pedestrian paths in and around UNP including Legacy Park. He said the iconic tower is the “exclamation point” of UNP and will be visible from I-35 and Robinson Street, which he feels will help draw the “iconic” tenants that are wanted and deserved at UNP. The proposal also reflects a walking path from John Q. Hammons Embassy Hotel and Conference Center located on Conference Center Drive and west around the detention pond at Legacy Park, which will allow connectivity from the park to the conference center as well as the rest of the Town Center located south of the conference center.

The proposed entry wall at Robinson Street and 24th Avenue N.W. is approximately eight feet, six inches (8’6”) to the top of the planter feature and will be an attention-getter without blocking out the locations and/or activities within UNP. The proposed design will include the name Town Center University North Park on the wall with a multi-colored lighting feature and a landscape concept that will be top quality and exude class. Mr. Collett said the proposed entry will be subtle yet “pop” thus creating an entry feature that people will recognize and certainly remember. He said the proposal includes an iconic tower located at Legacy Drive and possible entryways at both Rock Creek Road and Tecumseh Road. The main entry adjacent to the iconic tower is part of the Town Center and will be the first portion built that is to be deeded with the Town Center.

Mr. Collett said Zoe’s Kitchen, a Mediterranean upscale restaurant, will be a free-standing building located north of Chipotle Restaurant and the anticipated opening date should be mid to late summer 2013. He said the architecture is unique and, in his opinion, resets the standard for the architecture in the Town Center. Mr. Collett said there is tremendous tenant interest in lifestyle categories from tenants you might see at malls, restaurants, etc., and UNP developers are very excited. He presented renderings of the architecture elements for proposed businesses within UNP and the Village Center including the Legacy Place Building and the 50-foot Legacy Place iconic tower to be located at Legacy Drive and 24th Avenue N.W. The area will have major landscaping, slanted parking, and will have the main entry signage for Legacy Place. The Legacy Place iconic tower will include a fire feature that will accentuate the entrance and be visually pleasing to the eye. The fire will only burn at night and be environmentally safe. He said the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) should be fine with the tower, and the pole holding the flame is four (4) feet with the flame itself from two to six feet tall. Mr. Collett felt like the iconic tower will be fresh and new and something that no other city will have.”

It'll be interesting to see if they deliver on this or if it ends up being hype.

There is hope ... more so if one doesn't look real closely at what has already come before.

[QUOTE=vaflyer;644856]. He said Mathis Brothers and possibly Chuck E. Cheese, will be located on the far north side of UNP (Lot 7) behind Kohl’s and both businesses are very excited to come to Norman.

A big whoop! Not.

Does anyone have pictures or renderings of the proposed Village Center and the 50-foot Legacy Place iconic tower? Will the Legacy Place Building be the main retail building for the Village Center? Is there any word on when any of this will start? Are there any plans to include residential housing on the top floors in the Village Center?

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The following pictures are from the developers meeting with Norman city council in March 2013.

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Where did you find these?

Also, I'm surprised there's not going to be any housing at all in here. Maybe to the north?

My o' my how I wish Edmond would get something like this! Happy for Norman, but jealous at the same time. Hope it passes, this is Frisco like shopping here!!!!!!!

All that unused parking in those renderings. Lots of people walking around. Seems developers will do whatever they can to make strip malls look good in renderings.

Too bad they don't show the full parking lot of cars and no people walking around.

ugh... Norman deserves better than this... sadly those in charge do not agree. Dont get me wrong, it sure looks nice... but it's just not what we should be striving for. i agree, housing should be included in this project, and a much more urban fill

Wow, I thought it looked really nice. There has to be parking for cars, esp. in a suburban environment. From what I can see, it looks to be pretty high quality development.

Looks can be deceiving, especially with renderings. This design might appear nice but it is no different than the rest of UNP. Strip mall.

Wow, I thought it looked really nice. There has to be parking for cars, esp. in a suburban environment. From what I can see, it looks to be pretty high quality development.

This type of development is unsustainable and will end up like every other strip center type development. Just look at the strip development on Ed Noble Parkway...I bet it was nice when it was first built. I hate that UNP is just another strip center with some pretty brick buildings. It's not walkable, its only drivable and it is not a "town center" as it should be. No housing, just more chain stores and restaurants.

To address parking...theres ALWAYS more parking than what is needed or required. Parking creates barriers for walkability.

You know, I've always wondered what the resistance is to parking garages here in Oklahoma. I'm sure it's just ignorance on my part, but it seems like even in a suburban development like UNP you'd get huge benefits from having maybe a 3 or 4 level garage. Visually you'd avoid a lot of ugly parking lots by stacking them and everything could fit together a bit nicer. As a patron you'd be parked in the shade (huge benefit in this state, right?) and be able to walk short distances to the shops all while still being able to maintain your suburban experience of driving up and down bloody Robinson street. Wouldn't everyone win? Maybe it's cost or something. All I know is I just don't understand how it all ends up like this.

You know, I've always wondered what the resistance is to parking garages here in Oklahoma. I'm sure it's just ignorance on my part, but it seems like even in a suburban development like UNP you'd get huge benefits from having maybe a 3 or 4 level garage. Visually you'd avoid a lot of ugly parking lots by stacking them and everything could fit together a bit nicer. As a patron you'd be parked in the shade (huge benefit in this state, right?) and be able to walk short distances to the shops all while still being able to maintain your suburban experience of driving up and down bloody Robinson street. Wouldn't everyone win? Maybe it's cost or something. All I know is I just don't understand how it all ends up like this.


It's mostly cost...building a parking garage instead of a surface parking lot is astronomically more expensive...and when you're in a state where land is relatively cheap, why would you build up when you can easily build out? I hate arguing that point because im totally in favor of parking garages but im realistic

It's mostly cost...building a parking garage instead of a surface parking lot is astronomically more expensive...and when you're in a state where land is relatively cheap, why would you build up when you can easily build out? I hate arguing that point because im totally in favor of parking garages but im realistic

Yeah, I figured it would have to be cost. Feels like local developers are focused on quantity and quick returns over quality and long term sustainability. Really bums me out sometimes.

This type of development is unsustainable and will end up like every other strip center type development. Just look at the strip development on Ed Noble Parkway...I bet it was nice when it was first built. I hate that UNP is just another strip center with some pretty brick buildings. It's not walkable, its only drivable and it is not a "town center" as it should be. No housing, just more chain stores and restaurants.

To address parking...theres ALWAYS more parking than what is needed or required. Parking creates barriers for walkability.

Keep in mind the "town center" isn't even built yet, so can't really complain about that right now.

Would you like the lifestyle center if it was designed similar to The Shops at La Cantera in San Antonio? The Shops at La Cantera | America's Premier Shopping Places (http://www.americaspremiershoppingplaces.com/apsp/locations/profiles/shops-at-la-cantera.html) Photo Gallery at the bottom of the page.

That's a beautiful shopping center, but were missing the boat by not including housing.

It'll be interesting to see if they deliver on this or if it ends up being hype.

Track record......

To call this a lifestyle center is kind of a joke.

It is a long way from being fully developed. We want everything completed yesterday.

I am not talking about just what has been developed.

Why is there this persistent refusal to LOOK at renderings and site plans. I see parking. Not lifestyle. It's that simple.

Yes, lifestyle centers need parking, too. But it usually isn't the first thing you see when you look at them. There is no attempt here to build a shopping center that other states are building in 2013.

UNP has developed into a modern stripmall with nice landscaping and parking lots.

The UNP TIF district was formed to be economic development tool for the City of Norman. The logic was to build a high-quality development that would be attractive to tenants that would be a regional draw. People from around the region then would shop there and pay sales taxes to the City of Norman. For the regional draw part to work, the development ideally needs to be near a freeway (the UNP is) and it must have ample parking because people outside the City of Norman must drive to get there. One can debate whether or not the UNP is actually a regional draw, but the decision to have ample parking is consistent with the UNP’s intended purpose of being a regional draw.