You are correct. However, AD revenue and NIL/buyout monies are 2 very, very different things. I should have specified. I was talking about buying out Moser's contract. Those types of fundings usually come from donors.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

At least do a better job on the Photoshop next time.

Ha not Photoshop, a couple minutes copying and pasting onto Bluebeam.

Or on the parking lot to the north.

That would work too. SE corner works better with existing Duck Pond parking lot and future synergy with other athletic facilities (football operations center, indoor practice facility).

McCasland in its current state is unworkable as a basketball facility, there’s a reason OU only plays one game per year there. They’d either build the new arena in a corner of the current LNC parking lot, or on the south side of GT Blankenship Boulevard.

Only thing I can think of is see if Oklahoma city can hold on to paycom Center a little longer. Have them practice and do their games there until the new OU stadium is complete. I still think soutgy of the river and the building a bridge over the Canadian with Jenkins is the most feasible if it's going to be relocated.

The AD may not be poor, but they had to take a prorated portion of their SEC revenue share, so for this year, buying out coaches will have to come from private donors, which is where OU lacks, compared to other blue-blood programs.

Again, untrue and uninformed.

Boyd & Jenkins
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNBnTC9iLRmFlGsd1RHByZN4jN0VLDwQUotsLFx

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP5bM-0ej0VuwlXlKIzFrSiHMmqBbVHVQH2CWmC

that is Brooks and Jenkins ... but yes that would be a great spot ..

Nah too far from the University which is one of the problems with it. A bridge via Jenkins definitely will come in handy at some point anyway especially with goldsby Noble, Newcastle and Blanchard starting to see growth.

that is not relevant .. and there will be a second bridge over the river when the turnpike is completed ..

that is Brooks and Jenkins ... but yes that would be a great spot ..

Correct - but OU owns acres of land in the general vicinity of Boyd & Jenkins that would be a better location than any other that has been proposed.

Correct - but OU owns acres of land in the general vicinity of Boyd & Jenkins that would be a better location than any other that has been proposed.

boyd and jenkins is where Sarkeys is southwest .. and devon energy hall southeast corner ..

that is no room for an arena at that intersection ..


OU owns lots of land at the NE corner of Brooks and Jenkins ..

The AD may not be poor, but they had to take a prorated portion of their SEC revenue share, so for this year, buying out coaches will have to come from private donors, which is where OU lacks, compared to other blue-blood programs.

Absolutely incorrect. OU is in the middle/upper tier of blue blood programs for private donations and in the top 10 for all schools.

https://247sports.com/longformarticle/college-footballs-top-50-programs-ranked-by-nil-efforts-235181311/amp/

Absolutely incorrect. OU is in the middle/upper tier of blue blood programs for private donations and in the top 10 for all schools.

https://247sports.com/longformarticle/college-footballs-top-50-programs-ranked-by-nil-efforts-235181311/amp/
This confirms what many in Norman have suspected. Thanks for bringing this to light. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there that OU is poor.

This confirms what many in Norman have suspected. Thanks for bringing this to light. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there that OU is poor.

Definitely a difference between having loaded donors and them being willing to donate to a project.

Definitely a difference between having loaded donors and them being willing to donate to a project.

As well as a difference between a Athletic Director that rests on past success with one who is being paid to being an effective agent for a blue blood university. Complacency does not cut it in 2025 to obtain funds from BMD's. Administering an Athletic Dept like it is 1998 doesn't cut it in 2025.

As well as a difference between a Athletic Director that rests on past success with one who is being paid to being an effective agent for a blue blood university. Complacency does not cut it in 2025 to obtain funds from BMD's. Administering an Athletic Dept like it is 1998 doesn't cut it in 2025.

fair point

Rich people wanting to publicly subsidize their expenses to enrich themselves and their families through the proceeds is a classic tale I tell my nieces and nephews when they want a scary story.

As well as a difference between a Athletic Director that rests on past success with one who is being paid to being an effective agent for a blue blood university. Complacency does not cut it in 2025 to obtain funds from BMD's. Administering an Athletic Dept like it is 1998 doesn't cut it in 2025.
OU has consistently stayed in the top 10 and among the bluebloods in raising money and administering it. It is still one of the few public programs in the country that doesn’t rely on state funds. So, not sure what complacency you speak of. I know from all your anti OU posts you aren’t a fan, but please give us truthful and insightful examples rather than unsubstantiated negative criticisms.

It is true that OU is much smaller and therefore has a smaller base of BMDs than say tOSU, Texas, Michigan, etc. OU swings above it’s weight.

I’m all for the Entertainment Center. If all the naysayers claim OU should fund it all, well then I’d hope maybe big donors honor Toby and name it the TK Tisdale Event Center. Allow OU to host all university and private concerts with proceeds going to NIL. To help with city if they don’t vote for it to be funded.

ARENA TIF PETITION HEARING
The court hearing is set for 9:00 am on February 19, 2025, with Judge Jeff Virgin at the Cleveland County Court House, Downtown Norman.

ARENA TIF PETITION HEARING
The court hearing is set for 9:00 am on February 19, 2025, with Judge Jeff Virgin at the Cleveland County Court House, Downtown Norman.

Watch it get delayed due to weather

OU has consistently stayed in the top 10 and among the bluebloods in raising money and administering it. It is still one of the few public programs in the country that doesn’t rely on state funds. So, not sure what complacency you speak of. I know from all your anti OU posts you aren’t a fan, but please give us truthful and insightful examples rather than unsubstantiated negative criticisms.

It is true that OU is much smaller and therefore has a smaller base of BMDs than say tOSU, Texas, Michigan, etc. OU swings above it’s weight.

One of the largest athletic budgets in the country, just hit $200 million in annual revenue for first time. And according to you top 10 in raising money. Impressive stuff, really. And to me all the more reason why city of Norman shouldnt be incentivizing OU's arena to the tune of $600 million. And I assume this is why a bunch of citizens are against this TIF package as well.

ARENA TIF PETITION HEARING
The court hearing is set for 9:00 am on February 19, 2025, with Judge Jeff Virgin at the Cleveland County Court House, Downtown Norman.


Watch it get delayed due to weather

the cleveland county court house was infact closed until 12 today ..

the cleveland county court house was infact closed until 12 today ..

It got moved to 1:30pm today. No updates on the docket search yet though. Plantiffs still arguing the wording is misleading after they changed from invalidating petition signatures.

Hearing was held and it was reported by KFOR it lasted 2.5 hours. Opponents of the vote maintain it was "confusing". Ruling is expected by Friday.

I am sticking by my original claim I think it should be built on the south side of the river three miles south of Lloyd Noble Center. Plus I think a bridge over Jenkins would provide a relief route into the rapidly growing goldsby area. Right now you either have to take us 62, I-35, us 77, or the south expansion of the Kickapoo which is not guaranteed to go up

or the south expansion of the Kickapoo which is not guaranteed to go up

?? what the south expansion is very much going to happen

Hearing was held and it was reported by KFOR it lasted 2.5 hours. Opponents of the vote maintain it was "confusing". Ruling is expected by Friday.

is this quote from the OU daily incorrect?? (serious question they are not always accurate in their reporting? )


Virgin said he would document and likely report his findings on Thursday.


Judge Jeff Virgin oversaw the case.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/norman-university-north-park-rock-creek-entertainment-district-petition-public-vote-court/article_5a850c10-ef23-11ef-913a-4b8a02a00ec0.html

is this quote from the OU daily incorrect?? (serious question they are not always accurate in their reporting? )





https://www.oudaily.com/news/norman-university-north-park-rock-creek-entertainment-district-petition-public-vote-court/article_5a850c10-ef23-11ef-913a-4b8a02a00ec0.html

My post was repeating what was broadcast on the KFOR newscast. I did not compare and contrast what the OU Daily reported. I was not at the hearing.

Going to be interest what Judge Jeff Virgin does here. Smart for the UNP/OU side to get this hearing in front of him, as he isnt just an OU grad but was also an equipment manager for OU athletic teams while he was at OU.

Going to be interest what Judge Jeff Virgin does here. Smart for the UNP/OU side to get this hearing in front of him, as he isnt just an OU grad but was also an equipment manager for OU athletic teams while he was at OU.

Be careful mentioning that. People on here will call it a conflict of interest that a judge in Norman went to OU.

It got moved to 1:30pm today. No updates on the docket search yet though. Plantiffs still arguing the wording is misleading after they changed from invalidating petition signatures.

in fairness they didn't change they originally were arguing both ..

but


While it is clear that a significant number of signatures the Proponents submitted to the
City are invalid, in the interest of judicial economy, Protestants intend to forgo further pursuit of
a signature challenge and instead focus solely on the legal insufficiency of the gist of Referendum
Petition 2425-1 (the "Petition").

Do a Gallagher-Iba Arena style renovation to McCasland Field House or partner with Oklahoma City to use the new $900 million Oklahoma City downtown arena at the former PSM site.

Do a Gallagher-Iba Arena style renovation to McCasland Field House or partner with Oklahoma City to use the new $900 million Oklahoma City downtown arena at the former PSM site.

Word on the street is that the McCasland family approached OU to donate and renovate McCasland field house and OU told them no.

Word on the street is that the McCasland family approached OU to donate and renovate McCasland field house and OU told them no.

McCasland family has one of the new dorms opening this fall. I assume their money went there.

Word on the street is that the McCasland family approached OU to donate and renovate McCasland field house and OU told them no.

"Word on the street".. The REAL word on the street is that Elon Musk is building the worlds largest sports training facility in Norman and will include a 100,000 seat arena for OU because Norman deserves it.

See what I did there.

Word on the street is that the McCasland family approached OU to donate and renovate McCasland field house and OU told them no.

No they didn't.

petition thrown out ... arena and TIF are back on ...

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=cleveland&number=CV-2024-3374

for now .. this will get appealed to the oklahoma supreme court

petition thrown out ... arena and TIF are back on ...

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=cleveland&number=CV-2024-3374

for now .. this will get appealed to the oklahoma supreme court

My favorite rulings, that the people were clearly too stupid to understand this.

Looks like former OU athletic team manager came through for the university!

Look forward to the appeal.

Thank you God!! I’m am so hoping this development happens!

Judge rules petition insufficient to turn UNP entertainment district to public vote

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahomans-for-responsible-economic-development-referendum-petition-judge-jeff-virginuniversity-north-park-court-hearing/article_20ec18a8-f0a0-11ef-b948-d7fa75a51ab6.html

Judge rules petition insufficient to turn UNP entertainment district to public vote

https://www.oudaily.com/news/oklahomans-for-responsible-economic-development-referendum-petition-judge-jeff-virginuniversity-north-park-court-hearing/article_20ec18a8-f0a0-11ef-b948-d7fa75a51ab6.html

Even though the fight is not over yet. This is a step in the right direction don't let the NIMBYs win

Even though the fight is not over yet. This is a step in the right direction don't let the NIMBYs win

Are you saying we shouldn't let the majority decide?

I guess it could be called NIMBY’s vs. Commies

Are you saying we shouldn't let the majority decide?

I guess it could be called NIMBY’s vs. Commies

They voted for their city council members...that is our government form.

Are you saying we shouldn't let the majority decide?

I guess it could be called NIMBY’s vs. Commies
First, you assume you are in the majority when you have no idea. Secondly, if they voted it still wouldn't represent a majority as few people actually vote.. way less than 50% of eligible voters . And finally, we are a representative democracy, not an absolute democracy.

"Word on the street".. The REAL word on the street is that Elon Musk is building the worlds largest sports training facility in Norman and will include a 100,000 seat arena for OU because Norman deserves it.

See what I did there.

I heard Drake is opening for the announcement.

I heard Drake is opening for the announcement.

Bro what?

First, you assume you are in the majority when you have no idea. Secondly, if they voted it still wouldn't represent a majority as few people actually vote.. way less than 50% of eligible voters . And finally, we are a representative democracy, not an absolute democracy.

I never assumed anything. I said let the people decide….

Why would you be against that? That might be the most telling part of your statement.

Obviously, the people were not happy with how those council members betrayed their trust.

First, you assume you are in the majority when you have no idea. Secondly, if they voted it still wouldn't represent a majority as few people actually vote.. way less than 50% of eligible voters . And finally, we are a representative democracy, not an absolute democracy.

Thanks for the civics lesson. Unfortunatly you neglected to mention the initiative petition as a legitimate check and balance on the City Council.
It exists for a reason, contrary to the insinuations that it is some sort of radical avenue. Norman has a culture of voting on issues themselves such as utility increases or franchise agreements.

My favorite rulings, that the people were clearly too stupid to understand this.

Looks like former OU athletic team manager came through for the university!

Look forward to the appeal.

Judge Virgin has a pro developer, anti petition history.https://www.news9.com/story/5e627d05cd4aa89d1b92f9d0/judge-rejects-petition-to-allow-norman-residents-to-vote-on-tif

Thanks for the civics lesson. Unfortunatly you neglected to mention the initiative petition as a legitimate check and balance on the City Council.
It exists for a reason, contrary to the insinuations that it is some sort of radical avenue. Norman has a culture of voting on issues themselves such as utility increases or franchise agreements.

sure but don't write a petition that is misleading ..

Judge Virgin has a pro developer, anti petition history.https://www.news9.com/story/5e627d05cd4aa89d1b92f9d0/judge-rejects-petition-to-allow-norman-residents-to-vote-on-tif

Nothing in that article says either of those things...did you mean to link another article?

I had posted a reply earlier on this but somehow managed to post it to the wrong thread #sigh.

I'm not a Norman resident, so I don't have a dog in this particular fight *directly*, I just hope to see something positive for OU.

I was curious about the ruling by the judge, so I read it, which basically just said he agreed with the arguments from the petitioner that the "gist" of the petition to bring it to a vote was invalid....

...so I ended up reading the arguments of the petitioner.

Bottom line, it appears there were/are several built in "balances" in the TIF regarding duration, use of funds, and city liability for shortfalls (there is none), but none of these limits were mentioned in the "gist" of the petition. The way the petition was apparently worded (which I did not see) left an impression that the TIF plan was essentially unchecked. That certainly leaned into the concerns of those who opposed the project.

It seems to me that those opposed to the project may have fumbled the ball by not adding a few simple sentences to their petition outlining those limitations. Since one of their leaders/focals asserted that they believe everyone who signed the petition knew what it was about, adding those few sentences would have been an easy "failsafe."

I was also very surprised to learn that even amid the media coverage, there were only 325 signatures on that petition. The city felt they could challenge the validity of many of those, but waived their option to argue on those grounds and argue exclusively on the validity of the petition as it was written. And that basis was good enough, apparently.

My understanding is that this is an 80/20 private/public funding split, and with the duration limits and essentially no risk to the city of Norman, this seems a pretty decent package to put forward. In a very, very small way, it reminds me of what Jerry Jones wanted the city of Dallas to do to keep the Dallas Cowboys and put them back in the old Cotton Bowl after throwing something like $1B in renovations and a huge retail shopping district, but there was intense local sentiment against helping a billionaire fund a sports franchise, so they nixed it, and the Cowboys moved to Arlington.

I understand the concerns of the opposition here, but this seems a pretty reasonable package IMO. I think an appeal is going to have tough sledding going upstream.

Bro what?

Inside joke on the OU twitter/message boards from the post Lincoln Riley coaching search

Obviously, the people were not happy with how those council members betrayed their trust.

You can find a handful of people unhappy about every decision that any governmental body makes.

I had posted a reply earlier on this but somehow managed to post it to the wrong thread #sigh.

I'm not a Norman resident, so I don't have a dog in this particular fight *directly*, I just hope to see something positive for OU.

I was curious about the ruling by the judge, so I read it, which basically just said he agreed with the arguments from the petitioner that the "gist" of the petition to bring it to a vote was invalid....

...so I ended up reading the arguments of the petitioner.

Bottom line, it appears there were/are several built in "balances" in the TIF regarding duration, use of funds, and city liability for shortfalls (there is none), but none of these limits were mentioned in the "gist" of the petition. The way the petition was apparently worded (which I did not see) left an impression that the TIF plan was essentially unchecked. That certainly leaned into the concerns of those who opposed the project.

It seems to me that those opposed to the project may have fumbled the ball by not adding a few simple sentences to their petition outlining those limitations. Since one of their leaders/focals asserted that they believe everyone who signed the petition knew what it was about, adding those few sentences would have been an easy "failsafe."

I was also very surprised to learn that even amid the media coverage, there were only 325 signatures on that petition. The city felt they could challenge the validity of many of those, but waived their option to argue on those grounds and argue exclusively on the validity of the petition as it was written. And that basis was good enough, apparently.

My understanding is that this is an 80/20 private/public funding split, and with the duration limits and essentially no risk to the city of Norman, this seems a pretty decent package to put forward. In a very, very small way, it reminds me of what Jerry Jones wanted the city of Dallas to do to keep the Dallas Cowboys and put them back in the old Cotton Bowl after throwing something like $1B in renovations and a huge retail shopping district, but there was intense local sentiment against helping a billionaire fund a sports franchise, so they nixed it, and the Cowboys moved to Arlington.

I understand the concerns of the opposition here, but this seems a pretty reasonable package IMO. I think an appeal is going to have tough sledding going upstream.

I don't know where you got the information of "only 325 signatures on that petition". You are off by >10k.

You can find a handful of people unhappy about every decision that any governmental body makes.

You’re correct. However, I fail to see the correlation in this situation. The people voted out those most responsible for the decision. Now there is a large group asking for a public vote…

You’re correct. However, I fail to see the correlation in this situation. The people voted out those most responsible for the decision. Now there is a large group asking for a public vote…

The fact the petitioners used basically lies to get people scared into signing it is why it was overturned. Not that they didn't know what they were signing. Petitioners resorted to insane fallacies to get people on their side.

Not everything needs to go to a public vote, especially when you have to lie to get people on your side.

I don't know where you got the information of "only 325 signatures on that petition". You are off by >10k.

I must have misread the material. Apologies. I'll reread it.

I must have misread the material. Apologies. I'll reread it.

The OU Daily article mentioned one particular petition signature gatherer who talked about the 350 signatures she gathered, but that was only one set of them not all. Maybe that was the article you got the mistaken impression from?

Anywho, I don't really have a dog in this fight given I haven't lived in Norman for going on a decade, but the judge tossing a 10k+ signature referendum on a well covered current events issue for the city smells very foul. It may be a technically correct ruling but that doesn't make it the morally correct ruling, especially considering how the city just voted in the recent elections. Hopefully there's an appeal and the ruling gets overturned so we can see what Norman really thinks by way of a vote of the people.

The OU Daily article mentioned one particular petition signature gatherer who talked about the 350 signatures she gathered, but that was only one set of them not all. Maybe that was the article you got the mistaken impression from?

Anywho, I don't really have a dog in this fight given I haven't lived in Norman for going on a decade, but the judge tossing a 10k+ signature referendum on a well covered current events issue for the city smells very foul. It may be a technically correct ruling but that doesn't make it the morally correct ruling, especially considering how the city just voted in the recent elections. Hopefully there's an appeal and the ruling gets overturned so we can see what Norman really thinks by way of a vote of the people.

He tossed it because the petition was full of lies and deceit. Misinformation abounded. Never mentioned key things like a liability limit, that is a public-private partnership, and there are a lot of things that protect the city should things go awry. None of these things are mentioned. Just fearful language and they the city is on the hook for the full amount no matter what. Lies and deceit are why it was tossed out.