Can't disagree with you on the modern student walking all the way down there. Many of us walked down there to watch during the Kelvin Sampson era. Never missed a game!

Personally, I don't mind a new arena there at the Town Center. I agree with what you're saying leaving to a fun lively atmosphere. That being said, I would rather it be on campus so I can directly impact my kids in the brainwashing while walking through campus to get to games. I would've liked the old field house to be renovated and added on to. Supposedly that wasn't an option so UTC will be cool. It will also be neat to see the OU branding right there for everyone to see on 35.

the field house is set up for wrestling, volleyball, and Men's Gymnastics. there really isn't another facility on campus for them to move to. and if they keep getting rid of parking on campus to keep building big projects, then it will hurt attendance of these smaller sports

My question still stands about students walking there. Never see foot traffic between the campus and Lloyd Nobel when I go to bb games. But parking lot is active. Bball being a winter sport is usually at night most likely discourages pedestrian activity when dark and cold and a pretty fair hike.

And yes, as I agreed it is technically it on campus but not central and not conveniently located. For the few dozen more students who might walk there are thousands of alums who would appreciate a more convenient and time efficient location, not to mention a lively atmosphere in and outside of the arena itself. Leaving the game and going next door for a beer and nachos waiting for traffic to clear is way more appealing than walking past darkened classroom buildings to a parking garage or out into a dark lot.

From campus you can walk to Campus Corner, an existing entertainment district that absolutely will suffer if the arena/entertainment district is built by I-35.

I’ve talked to several fans of SEC teams that have made the trip to Norman this football season. For most it was their first time visiting. Overall they liked the campus (especially the trees/ landscaping) and how the campus and neighborhoods blend together with Campus Corner. They also said our tailgating seemed lame in comparison to other SEC schools (which is true) and that Campus Corner was not as good as comparable college-adjacent bar/entertainment districts. When I told them the university wanted to build a new basketball arena further from campus next to the interstate they couldn’t believe that was real.

and that Campus Corner was not as good as comparable college-adjacent bar/entertainment districts.

and this won't change, even if the basketball arena is built on campus. Campus Corners downfall is solely an issue of ownership of the land in Campus Corner, and that isn't changing anytime soon.

if your argument that we shouldn't build the arena next to a brand new entertainment district that could be amazing, but we don't no, but should build it next to the existing bad entertainment district that won't be changing anytime soon, then i don't think you are fully thinking this out.

the field house is set up for wrestling, volleyball, and Men's Gymnastics. there really isn't another facility on campus for them to move to. and if they keep getting rid of parking on campus to keep building big projects, then it will hurt attendance of these smaller sports

It was home of the basketball teams until 1975... so it could be done. But the capacity would be very small, like about 5,000 or so... which, unfortunately, still might not sell out. Interestingly enough, the OU men did play a regular season basketball game there in 2023, though against Arkansas-Pine Bluff... and only students were allowed in to be fans.

It was home of the basketball teams until 1975... so it could be done. But the capacity would be very small, like about 5,000 or so... which, unfortunately, still might not sell out. Interestingly enough, the OU men did play a regular season basketball game there in 2023, though against Arkansas-Pine Bluff... and only students were allowed in to be fans.

OU sells out quite a few games, people just don't attend. There is a difference....

It was home of the basketball teams until 1975... so it could be done. But the capacity would be very small, like about 5,000 or so... which, unfortunately, still might not sell out. Interestingly enough, the OU men did play a regular season basketball game there in 2023, though against Arkansas-Pine Bluff... and only students were allowed in to be fans.

OU has had over 9,000 season tickets holders in all but a few of the last 25 seasons ..

OU sells out quite a few games, people just don't attend. There is a difference....

Yeah, sorry, that was some disappointed sarcasm on my part. You are right.

True. It really started getting bad when the athletic department started giving football donors extra points for having basketball tickets as well as football. So, the football donors started buying basketball season tickets and then almost never showing up or giving away the tickets to anyone else who might want to attend.

and this won't change, even if the basketball arena is built on campus. Campus Corners downfall is solely an issue of ownership of the land in Campus Corner, and that isn't changing anytime soon.

if your argument that we shouldn't build the arena next to a brand new entertainment district that could be amazing, but we don't no, but should build it next to the existing bad entertainment district that won't be changing anytime soon, then i don't think you are fully thinking this out.

There were talks in the past year, and reported here by Pete, that a group was looking to acquire and redevelop a significant portion of Campus Corner. Why just accept that Campus Corner (literally the front door to OU for visitors/students) is a “bad entertainment district” and build a new one 5 miles from campus, but with chain restaurants next to a busy interstate. You’re right the arena is not a panacea but the arena + entertainment district at UNP will absolutely have a negative impact on both Campus Corner and downtown Norman. OU would literally be undoing the years of hard work that local businesses have put into revitalizing these areas.

There were talks in the past year, and reported here by Pete, that a group was looking to acquire and redevelop a significant portion of Campus Corner. Why just accept that Campus Corner (literally the front door to OU for visitors/students) is a “bad entertainment district” and build a new one 5 miles from campus, but with chain restaurants next to a busy interstate. You’re right the arena is not a panacea but the arena + entertainment district at UNP will absolutely have a negative impact on both Campus Corner and downtown Norman. OU would literally be undoing the years of hard work that local businesses have put into revitalizing these areas.

and that fell through, because you can't force the people who are causing CC it to fail, to sell their properties. the failure of that group looking to buy, is exactly why you have to accept that Campus Corner isn't changing anytime soon

True. It really started getting bad when the athletic department started giving football donors extra points for having basketball tickets as well as football. So, the football donors started buying basketball season tickets and then almost never showing up or giving away the tickets to anyone else who might want to attend.

this has always been a myth .... you get 1 point for having other sport tickets .... basketball / baseball / tennis / what ever ..

I've heard that one person owns half or more of the properties in CC. Any idea who?

I've heard that one person owns half or more of the properties in CC. Any idea who?

Three Twenty Nine Partners II and ASP Street Investments hold good sized chunks, but I don't see a single entity with half at https://okmaps.org/ogi/search.aspx. But I also don't know who is behind each of those entities, either.

Rainy Powell is the owner of most of it.

Yes Powell Family (Harold's Department Store) own most of the west side of CC. Judy Hatfield/David Box own a large portion on the north side. The Miller/Burger Family have a large portion on the east side. After that it's really just people who own a single building or two.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-norman-petition-tif-entertainment-district-vote-signature-requirement/62832036

On to the election in Feb. 2025

A Protest Petition has been filed. Not sure if it was mentioned or not

https://www.koco.com/article/norman-arena-entertainment-district-referendum-petition-protest/62956190

A Protest Petition has been filed. Not sure if it was mentioned or not

https://www.koco.com/article/norman-arena-entertainment-district-referendum-petition-protest/62956190

Of course OU will do whatever they can to prevent this vote, not too shocking. I imagine its like the PIKE OFF people in that its a legal hail mary.

From that article, the math here isnt adding up:

In the plans for the district, 80% of the project would be from private donors. The other 20% would come from the TIF district.

With interest, the city's part would be around $600 million.

$600 mil is 20% of $3 billion.

Of course OU will do whatever they can to prevent this vote, not too shocking. I imagine its like the PIKE OFF people in that its a legal hail mary.

From that article, the math here isnt adding up:


$600 mil is 20% of $3 billion.

the TIF is only 200 mil .. of the 1 billion that is where the math works ..

the TIF is only 200 mil .. of the 1 billion that is where the math works ..

Then why does it say the city's part would be $600 mil?

Then why does it say the city's part would be $600 mil?

because there is interest on their portion ..

the cities part is 200 mil .. ..

...

because there is interest on their portion ..

the cities part is 200 mil .. ..

Fuzzy math. The developers want Norman to guarantee 600M. If Norman's part is 200 who pays the interest? If Norman pays the interest than you are deceptive with the obligation of Norman tax payers.

Fuzzy math. The developers want Norman to guarantee 600M. If Norman's part is 200 who pays the interest?

Developer pays interest. TIF isn't a loan, it is a tax credit paid conditionally.

Fuzzy math. The developers want Norman to guarantee 600M. If Norman's part is 200 who pays the interest? If Norman pays the interest than you are deceptive with the obligation of Norman tax payers.

When has the city ever paid the interest? That is disingenuous on the "citizens" part, since they are spewing a lie as fact.

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.

When has the city ever paid the interest? That is disingenuous on the "citizens" part, since they are spewing a lie as fact.

Why is the TIF for 600 when the city is expected to cough up 230?

Why is the TIF for 600 when the city is expected to cough up 230?

The TIF amount, I don't believe, has ever formally been announced as $600 million. That is what people have been saying it would be, after the interest. But the interest would be repaid as part of the TIF, like in most projects, I believe. Unless you have something formal that shows different.

Plus, is this TIF a loan? If so, the developer would be on the hook for interest, not the city.

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.

I pay taxes there. Hence why I want this project. It will help my property values (when Norman has more things to do, it helps everyone).

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.

Yes, the only good ideas or fair thinking comes from a provincial thinking minority group. LOL

^ You are free to send an ear marked donation to the OU foundation for arena funding.

The TIF amount, I don't believe, has ever formally been announced as $600 million. That is what people have been saying it would be, after the interest. But the interest would be repaid as part of the TIF, like in most projects, I believe. Unless you have something formal that shows different.

Plus, is this TIF a loan? If so, the developer would be on the hook for interest, not the city.

$600M is the formal amount that was approved by the city council.
Authorized Project Cost Limits.
Authorized
Project
Costs
include
Assistance
in
Development Financing and
Administration/Implementation. The amount of Assistance in Development Financing shall not exceed
$600,000,000.
https://mccmeetingspublic.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/normanok-meet-e8eefc02b1744404ae35815d08d2ff39/ITEM-Attachment-001-fb960ef7618749829d2f537981df6a45.pdf

$600M is the formal amount that was approved by the city council.
Authorized Project Cost Limits.
Authorized
Project
Costs
include
Assistance
in
Development Financing and
Administration/Implementation. The amount of Assistance in Development Financing shall not exceed
$600,000,000.
https://mccmeetingspublic.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/normanok-meet-e8eefc02b1744404ae35815d08d2ff39/ITEM-Attachment-001-fb960ef7618749829d2f537981df6a45.pdf

I still think that the interest would be a developer burden, not a city burden.

I still think that the interest would be a developer burden, not a city burden.

The interest on the bond financing the TIF is the city's burden. The taxes collected in the district are earmarked to pay off the bond as that future cashflow is the collateral backing the bond.

I find it interesting that so many vocal proponents of Norman financing an arena for the State of Oklahoma neither live in or pay taxes in Norman.
As both a Norman native and resident. That is certainly not the case with me. The fact that the article said that a lot of the voters were deceived is mostly true. We will only be paying 200 million worth of it while these people are saying 600 million. The rest of it's coming from private investors. If it makes it to a vote I will definitely be voting yes on it. I was at a food bank back and I want to say either late September or early October. They were asking people if they wanted to sign the petition and I actually heard one or two people end up signing it and I heard no mention from the person that was asking for people to sign the petition what it would actually do just a bunch of nimbys which are the reason Costco went to Moore instead of Norman. They were actually looking for a property in Norman.

Responding to bison34 And Veggiemeat post. It would be a small burden on the city however once built we would quickly be able to recoup that money plus have more money for other projects around the city

Responding to bison34 And Veggiemeat post. It would be a small burden on the city however once built we would quickly be able to recoup that money plus have more money for other projects around the city

Recoup what? All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years. So no, this will not bring in more money for other Norman projects for a very long time.

And according to the above linked PDF document, the TIF amount is not to exceed $600 million. If OU and partners are planning $1 billion in development (key word, planned. its not guaranteed) then Norman is covering 60% of it, not 20% of it.

I think these math games were played with the Omni Hotel in OKC. The project was X amount but when the city was borrowing the money to finance it, the TIF amount in reality was much higher than the X amount. Pete brought that up many times during the planning of the Omni.

Recoup what? All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years. So no, this will not bring in more money for other Norman projects for a very long time..

until the money is recouped, and then the TIF goes away. so if the district is extremely successful, actually yes, it will be going to other norman projects, much sooner than even if just normal growth is allowed to happen without the district

Recoup what? All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years. So no, this will not bring in more money for other Norman projects for a very long time.

And according to the above linked PDF document, the TIF amount is not to exceed $600 million. If OU and partners are planning $1 billion in development (key word, planned. its not guaranteed) then Norman is covering 60% of it, not 20% of it.

I think these math games were played with the Omni Hotel in OKC. The project was X amount but when the city was borrowing the money to finance it, the TIF amount in reality was much higher than the X amount. Pete brought that up many times during the planning of the Omni.

the development is 1 billion + the TIF is paying for 200 mil (of a 330 mil stadium) that is a part of that 1 billion ..... 200mil is 20% of 1 billion it is really not that hard to figure out ..

the CITY general fund is paying 0.00 dollars .. and "All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years" this is not a true statement

the development is 1 billion + the TIF is paying for 200 mil (of a 330 mil stadium) that is a part of that 1 billion ..... 200mil is 20% of 1 billion it is really not that hard to figure out ..

the CITY general fund is paying 0.00 dollars .. and "All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years" this is not a true statement

The TIF agreement says up to $600 million from what I read. Let me know if you find something saying its capped at $200 million.

And all the ad valorem over the current small amount goes to the arena. I dont think any sales taxes are generated currently so yes, all that does go to arena. Is that a true statement? Feel free to correct me.

The TIF agreement says up to $600 million from what I read. Let me know if you find something saying its capped at $200 million.

And all the ad valorem over the current small amount goes to the arena. I dont think any sales taxes are generated currently so yes, all that does go to arena. Is that a true statement? Feel free to correct me.

Omni rope a dope is being tried out here.

the development is 1 billion + the TIF is paying for 200 mil (of a 330 mil stadium) that is a part of that 1 billion ..... 200mil is 20% of 1 billion it is really not that hard to figure out ..

the CITY general fund is paying 0.00 dollars .. and "All the sales taxes and ad valorem taxes from this area goes straight back to OU/arena for the next 25 years" this is not a true statement

Please provide a link that this is a billion dollar development. I say shenanigans. You have been repeating this 1 billion dollar figure ad nauseum.

https://tif-ed.blogspot.com/2024/10/ou-arena-entertainment-district-is-not.html?m=1

The TIF district landowner (OU Foundation, UNP North, LLC), Texas development partners (Rainier), Norman Economic Development Coalition (Lawrence McKinney), the Norman Chamber of Commerce (Scott Martin), and Visit Norman (Dan Schemm) have been promoting a $1 billion district.

The contractual agreement falls well short of this. The development agreement outlines the legal obligation of taxpayers: up to $600 million paid out for as long as 25 years to finance $230 million in costs for the anchor project (arena, parking structure and public infrastructure).

The TIF district would take 100% of sales taxes and property taxes paid in the larger increment area for improvements made on land owned by OU Foundation. Instead of tax revenues flowing to City, County and school budgets, they would go toward the costs of an arena and parking structure.

What are OU Foundation and their development partners proposing to do? Not a $1 billion project that has been presented as the maximum potential cost of a larger project in the area.

OU Foundation proposes to facilitate" the construction of $650 million project on land that it owns. The $650 million includes $230 million for the arena, parking structure, and public infrastructure paid for by TAXPAYERS.

The private investment portion is only $420 million!

The entertainment district includes a boutique 8,000 seat arena (the smallest in the SEC), a 1,200-spot parking garage, a plaza, and 140,000 square feet of bars, restaurants, and retail. We are talking about a block and a half of downtown Norman or Campus Corner adjacent to an area.

The proposed project plan adds up to $650 million, not $1 billion.

The TIF district would take 100% of sales taxes and property taxes paid in the larger increment area for improvements made on land owned by OU Foundation. Instead of tax revenues flowing to City, County and school budgets, they would go toward the costs of an arena and parking structure. [/I]

this is Factually not true no matter how many times you keep saying it ..

the development is 1 billion

this is Factually not true no matter how many times you keep saying it ..

It looks like they are starting on the foundation for the main event. I will try to get photos later this week

Foundation work starting for main event
19318

Foundation work starting for main event
19318

Just noticed earlier you cant really tell from the quoted image. go i got another one where it confirms there is indeed work on the foundation for the main event.
19319

Also how long did it take for the OKC Main event to open from groundbreaking

Hearing Sephora and Five Below will be coming to the new retail buildings proposed next to Crest (north side).

Hearing Sephora and Five Below will be coming to the new retail buildings proposed next to Crest (north side).

I wouldn't be surprised if Old Navy moves over there as well

Just noticed earlier you cant really tell from the quoted image. go i got another one where it confirms there is indeed work on the foundation for the main event.
19319

Also how long did it take for the OKC Main event to open from groundbreaking

Looking back at the OKC Main Event thread, it was at the same stage of construction as Norman location on 4-25-14 and it ended up opening on black Friday of that year. So there are about 7 months left to go for the Norman location.

Main Event, Sephora, Five Below are all coming? I thought UNP needed a smallish college arena to keep attracting new developments?

Main Event, Sephora, Five Below are all coming? I thought UNP needed a smallish college arena to keep attracting new developments?

well, seeing as how none of them were ever mentioned as coming before the initial announcement of said arena and entertainment district i think that still stands...

well, seeing as how none of them were ever mentioned as coming before the initial announcement of said arena and entertainment district i think that still stands...

Are you stating that Main Event, Sephora and Five Below actually factored in a new arena campaign as a reason they are putting stores here? I guarantee you their real estate team never paid more than 3 seconds of attention to this, if at al, and it played 0% in their decisions.

Are you stating that Main Event, Sephora and Five Below actually factored in a new arena campaign as a reason they are putting stores here? I guarantee you their real estate team never paid more than 3 seconds of attention to this, if at al, and it played 0% in their decisions.

arena no... but possible new developments coming to the area, absolutely they probably took that into consideration.

Norman Transcript had a headline that of a poll of voters the arena TIF is wildly unpopular, to the tune of 2/3 against.

Does Riverwind get the next try?

Norman Transcript had a headline that of a poll of voters the arena TIF is wildly unpopular, to the tune of 2/3 against.

Does Riverwind get the next try?

I've long wondered if the Chickasaw's may decide in the future to abandon Riverwind and build a new casino/hotel complex next to I-35 on the Canadian River. Something more like River Spirit in Tulsa but with better visibility and access for OKC metro visitors. Look no further than 270 miles south of Norman where Baylor has built its new arena on the Brazos next to I-35. A tribal-OU partnership would definitely be intriguing.

Norman Transcript: Survey shows proposed entertainment district unsupported (https://www.normantranscript.com/news/survey-shows-proposed-entertainment-district-unsupported/article_d17474cc-b365-11ef-87b9-0bf0d63b904f.html)

Norman Transcript: Survey shows proposed entertainment district unsupported (https://www.normantranscript.com/news/survey-shows-proposed-entertainment-district-unsupported/article_d17474cc-b365-11ef-87b9-0bf0d63b904f.html)
Numbers are not surprising. Pretty much tracks with those who signed petitions I was working.

I've long wondered if the Chickasaw's may decide in the future to abandon Riverwind and build a new casino/hotel complex next to I-35 on the Canadian River. Something more like River Spirit in Tulsa but with better visibility and access for OKC metro visitors. Look no further than 270 miles south of Norman where Baylor has built its new arena on the Brazos next to I-35. A tribal-OU partnership would definitely be intriguing.

Access to their current location will be pretty good once the interchange improvements are completed. They could do a lot of expansion at Riverwind if they wanted to. Their not going to get any closer to the city unless their is change to the laws.

Numbers are not surprising. Pretty much tracks with those who signed petitions I was working.

Doesn't sound like it shows a fair poll that you can only access the Norman Transcript Survey if you pay for it every month. The Norman Transcript only has 22,000 Subscribers on Facebook. the people that actually subscribe is most likely 2/3rds of those people at best. with the population of Norman being 130,000 with about 106,000 of those people being over the age of 18. i would think if you got every citizen over the age of 18 to give a opinion on the arena you would have a very different answer. if it doesn't pass they will likely try to apply for grants or still build it being at a much smaller scale. if all else fails. they would likely try to go to Goldsby or Moore

Access to their current location will be pretty good once the interchange improvements are completed. They could do a lot of expansion at Riverwind if they wanted to. Their not going to get any closer to the city unless their is change to the laws.

The Canadian River is the tribal border

Doesn't sound like it shows a fair poll that you can only access the Norman Transcript Survey if you pay for it every month. The Norman Transcript only has 22,000 Subscribers on Facebook. the people that actually subscribe is most likely 2/3rds of those people at best. with the population of Norman being 130,000 with about 106,000 of those people being over the age of 18. i would think if you got every citizen over the age of 18 to give a opinion on the arena you would have a very different answer. if it doesn't pass they will likely try to apply for grants or still build it being at a much smaller scale. if all else fails. they would likely try to go to Goldsby or Moore

You could try reading the article which addresses the central argument of your issue with the poll.