I will be honest, I didnt really know the arguments against this TIF until I read Cynthia Rogers blog outlining the funding and how it works. https://tif-ed.blogspot.com

Interesting arguments there where I see the most issue is the school funding as well as the shift in consumer spending to the area at the sake of other parts of town.

I explained how TIF works here:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=39599&p=847605#post847605

https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tifgraphic1.jpg

I will be honest, I didnt really know the arguments against this TIF until I read Cynthia Rogers blog outlining the funding and how it works. https://tif-ed.blogspot.com

Interesting arguments there where I see the most issue is the school funding as well as the shift in consumer spending to the area at the sake of other parts of town.

the rent rates in this new retail .. are over 4x the average rent rate in Norman .. this will be be lots of new retail ..

Interesting arguments there where I see the most issue is the school funding as well as the shift in consumer spending to the area at the sake of other parts of town.

yes they always leave out that these parcels have not contributed to school funding for over 20 years now that it has been ready for development. So the statement is that they are saying empty land not contributing to school funding is better than developed land not contributing.

yes they always leave out that these parcels have not contributed to school funding for over 20 years now that it has been ready for development. So the statement is that they are saying empty land not contributing to school funding is better than developed land not contributing.

Where proponents fail in this argument is that with adding residences over there the need for more school resources will increase. Yet those residences will not be contributing financially for what will be needed, be it teachers, books or a new school. For 25 years. So either services will be cut or taxes on the rest of the city will increase. Undeveloped land has no need for contributing to school funding. Undeveloped land does not have a need for classrooms.

this costs the city 0.00 dollars ..

You're right, only if this area stays 100% undeveloped for the next 25 years. And thats not very believable with the rate that the southern portion of UNP has matured. Development will naturally keep occurring in this proposed TIF district even without an arena. This land is perfect for apartments, even without an arena, and I guarantee they will happen even if this is voted down. Yet its pretty clear OU is working in tandem with the apartment developer to see that they get built after the TIF district is approved so all the apartment ad valorem money will flow back to the arena costs/financing. Its just one thing OU is trying to tee up to add to their TIF collections. Just part of the games they are playing with the numbers to make it look as rosy as they can.

I still think most of you have Norman citizens all wrong. Its not that they hate OU, dont understand the TIF, or hate growth, they simply dont think the city should be responsible in a major way for what is a dedicated OU facility. City of Norman, the county, or some newly formed public body doesnt want or need to own and operate an arena.

You're right, only if this area stays 100% undeveloped for the next 25 years. And thats not very believable with the rate that the southern portion of UNP has matured. Development will naturally keep occurring in this proposed TIF district even without an arena. This land is perfect for apartments, even without an arena, and I guarantee they will happen even if this is voted down. Yet its pretty clear OU is working in tandem with the apartment developer to see that they get built after the TIF district is approved so all the apartment ad valorem money will flow back to the arena costs/financing. Its just one thing OU is trying to tee up to add to their TIF collections. Just part of the games they are playing with the numbers to make it look as rosy as they can.

I still think most of you have Norman citizens all wrong. Its not that they hate OU, dont understand the TIF, or hate growth, they simply dont think the city should be responsible in a major way for what is a dedicated OU facility. City of Norman, the county, or some newly formed public body doesnt want or need to own and operate an arena.

What does this cost Norman?

What does this cost Norman?

Immediately it costs them the sales taxes they collected at LLoyd Noble concessions.

And I just laid it out how it will cost them when anything that would naturally develop in this district would then go to pay for the arena rather than into the city's coffers. Not everything that will get built in this district will be because of a college arena. College arenas arent a huge attraction for new development. Almost zero prospective apartment dwellers make a decision to live there because of a college arena. A Harkins Theater would probably bring more ancillary development than this arena.

Again though, whether the costs to the city end up being minimal or not, Im guessing most citizens say no because they dont think the city should be involved in any way of the building of a new arena for OU. Asking, "Why do we need to bail them out just because they cant or wont do it on their own like almost every other college?" Its a simple as that.

Immediately it costs them the sales taxes they collected at LLoyd Noble concessions.

And I just laid it out how it will cost them when anything that would naturally develop in this district would then go to pay for the arena rather than into the city's coffers. Not everything that will get built in this district will be because of a college arena. College arenas arent a huge attraction for new development. Almost zero prospective apartment dwellers make a decision to live there because of a college arena. A Harkins Theater would probably bring more ancillary development than this arena.

Again though, whether the costs to the city end up being minimal or not, Im guessing most citizens say no because they dont think the city should be involved in any way of the building of a new arena for OU. Asking, "Why do we need to bail them out just because they cant or wont do it on their own like almost every other college?" Its a simple as that.

This makes an interesting point. Would this have been easier to sell if this was a Norman arena with an option to lease it to OU for a certain price. Would that go over better with citizens? Food for thought.

This makes an interesting point. Would this have been easier to sell if this was a Norman arena with an option to lease it to OU for a certain price. Would that go over better with citizens? Food for thought.
I don't think so. The $600M for 25 years is what the objection is. OU could sweeten the deal by deeding over the LNC to the City of Norman.

Possibly related/unrelated. Norman opened up a new library in 2019 that cost more than $39M. It is now closed because of mold with no reopen date known. I don't know the temp here on taking on something of this magnitude.

Keeping UNP as retail, apartments and businesses generates a significant amount of sales tax vs. building an arena that sits empty most of the year. The best option for Norman is for OU to build its own arena at Brooks & Jenkins on land that is currently surface parking. Then when there are events the existing local businesses in Campus Corner/downtown get the primary benefit which leads to additional development of local and national businesses in central Norman.

Keeping UNP as retail, apartments and businesses generates a significant amount of sales tax vs. building an arena that sits empty most of the year. The best option for Norman is for OU to build its own arena at Brooks & Jenkins on land that is currently surface parking. Then when there are events the existing local businesses in Campus Corner/downtown get the primary benefit which leads to additional development of local and national businesses in central Norman.

It's been 15 years, and nothing, and I mean nothing, has even been remotely proposed for south of Rock Creek in UNP. The only proposals have been OU, trying to activate an area where no one at all wants to develop.

Now, we will end up with some crappy strip malls that are not the best and highest use of the area.

Heck, there may be no other tenants for the types of retail that will end up there, so it will take forever to develop.

But way to go, Norman. Have fun with your empty lot for the next 15 to 20 years. Meanwhile, students leave Norman as fast as they can after graduation, since no companies are relocating or growing there, and job opportunities are dying.

But way to go, Norman. Have fun with your empty lot for the next 15 to 20 years. Meanwhile, students leave Norman as fast as they can after graduation, since no companies are relocating or growing there, and job opportunities are dying.

How about instead of TIF for arena entertainment district the same funds could go toward building infrastructure for the advanced manufacturing business park that has long been envisioned for the north part of UNP. That is a way to attract new businesses to Norman that want/need access to I-35 and/or the airport.

How about instead of TIF for arena entertainment district the same funds could go toward building infrastructure for the advanced manufacturing business park that has long been envisioned for the north part of UNP. That is a way to attract new businesses to Norman that want/need access to I-35 and/or the airport.

There is no reason Norman can't go the route of OKC and have multiple TIF districts.

Where proponents fail in this argument is that with adding residences over there the need for more school resources will increase. Yet those residences will not be contributing financially for what will be needed, be it teachers, books or a new school. For 25 years. So either services will be cut or taxes on the rest of the city will increase. Undeveloped land has no need for contributing to school funding. Undeveloped land does not have a need for classrooms.
So, the entertainment district will add students to the roll based on its development? I don’t get it. How many new students will the schools expect based on what is actually being developed on this land? I really don’t see a lot of kids living at a gymnasium or bar.

If the development spurs new housing, won’t that be nearby on sites which will contribute and not be part of the TIF? What am I missing? Does nearby housing get exempted from property taxes based on the TIF? How does this development drive up school costs?

So, the entertainment district will add students to the roll based on its development? I don’t get it. How many new students will the schools expect based on what is actually being developed on this land? I really don’t see a lot of kids living at a gymnasium or bar.

If the development spurs new housing, won’t that be nearby on sites which will contribute and not be part of the TIF? What am I missing? Does nearby housing get exempted from property taxes based on the TIF? How does this development drive up school costs?

And, a development like this will drive up property values of the surrounding already developed areas, living next to an arena and other stores, bars, and restaurants, yet out of the downtown core.

So, the entertainment district will add students to the roll based on its development? I don’t get it. How many new students will the schools expect based on what is actually being developed on this land? I really don’t see a lot of kids living at a gymnasium or bar.

If the development spurs new housing, won’t that be nearby on sites which will contribute and not be part of the TIF? What am I missing? Does nearby housing get exempted from property taxes based on the TIF? How does this development drive up school costs?

3000 new housing units in proposed district.
https://www.news9.com/story/66ecab713c46c750869c768b/ou-president-hails-12-billion-norman-entertainment-district-as-landmark-opportunity#:~:text=%22The%20%241.2%20billion%20en tertainment%20district,a%20new%20OU%20basketball%2 0arena.

This makes an interesting point. Would this have been easier to sell if this was a Norman arena with an option to lease it to OU for a certain price. Would that go over better with citizens? Food for thought.

the arena will be leased to OU at a price ..

3000 new housing units in proposed district.
https://www.news9.com/story/66ecab713c46c750869c768b/ou-president-hails-12-billion-norman-entertainment-district-as-landmark-opportunity#:~:text=%22The%20%241.2%20billion%20en tertainment%20district,a%20new%20OU%20basketball%2 0arena.

And they would only spend money in the distrust. They won't go to Target or Crest, right? Because that is what people think. Plus, Norman couldn't use that property tax revenue for operations, since that violates state law. Other places in Norman would receive a large uptick in sales tax revenue, but not anymore.

Not like Norman is swimming in new citizens or large developments.

So, the entertainment district will add students to the roll based on its development? I don’t get it. How many new students will the schools expect based on what is actually being developed on this land? I really don’t see a lot of kids living at a gymnasium or bar.

If the development spurs new housing, won’t that be nearby on sites which will contribute and not be part of the TIF? What am I missing? Does nearby housing get exempted from property taxes based on the TIF? How does this development drive up school costs?


3000 new housing units in proposed district.
https://www.news9.com/story/66ecab713c46c750869c768b/ou-president-hails-12-billion-norman-entertainment-district-as-landmark-opportunity#:~:text=%22The%20%241.2%20billion%20en tertainment%20district,a%20new%20OU%20basketball%2 0arena.

As the link from Jersey Boss shows, lots of housing it teed up for this district? Why so many so quickly? Because thats more ad valorem that will flow back to OU's arena. Build a bunch of apartments and welcome a high taxable assessed value from the county assessor and the money comes flowing back to pay for the arena and not to schools, county health, etc. If you think that 3,000 housing units would only be happening because of the arena then you are quite gullible. There is already a natural market for housing here without an arena.

As the link from Jersey Boss shows, lots of housing it teed up for this district? Why so many so quickly? Because thats more ad valorem that will flow back to OU's arena. Build a bunch of apartments and welcome a high taxable assessed value from the county assessor and the money comes flowing back to pay for the arena and not to schools, county health, etc. If you think that 3,000 housing units would only be happening because of the arena then you are quite gullible. There is already a natural market for housing here without an arena.

There is? Where are these developments you speak of? Norman literally just had a mixed-use development with retail over housing changed to a giant strip mall. Housing isn't being built like you think it is in Norman, at least not apartments.

There is? Where are these developments you speak of? Norman literally just had a mixed-use development with retail over housing changed to a giant strip mall. Housing isn't being built like you think it is in Norman, at least not apartments.

You think the demand for housing has just stopped? Theres apparently a market for lots of housing and apartments just down the road, behind Sams on Main St, where they plan to build hundreds of units.

I believe the report for the Bob Moore Farms area said that housing is the big need in Norman where commercial space is actually in over supply. Thats why they scaled back retail there and went with more housing.

I believe the report for the Bob Moore Farms area said that housing is the big need in Norman where commercial space is actually in over supply. Thats why they scaled back retail there and went with more housing.

But the exact opposite is happening where there are rumors of a new Target.

As the link from Jersey Boss shows, lots of housing it teed up for this district? Why so many so quickly? Because thats more ad valorem that will flow back to OU's arena. Build a bunch of apartments and welcome a high taxable assessed value from the county assessor and the money comes flowing back to pay for the arena and not to schools, county health, etc. If you think that 3,000 housing units would only be happening because of the arena then you are quite gullible. There is already a natural market for housing here without an arena.

so then the 600 million would be paid back quicker and thus the city would then start to get the money to do other things with it quicker than the 25 years? okay, cool!

so then the 600 million would be paid back quicker and thus the city would then start to get the money to do other things with it quicker than the 25 years? okay, cool!

Is this how this works? Lots have been focused on the 25 year time line, but does the TIF stop if the money is recouped faster?

Is this how this works? Lots have been focused on the 25 year time line, but does the TIF stop if the money is recouped faster?

per the Norman Transrcript

How would this TIF work?
Technically, the public contribution to the project would come through two separate TIF districts with the same boundary lines. One TIF would capture 100% of undedicated sales taxes, and the other would capture 100% of ad valorem taxes.

The TIF districts would exist for a period of 25 years or until the financing costs of the arena are completely paid off — whichever comes first.

https://www.normantranscript.com/news/city-to-hold-hearing-tuesday-on-proposed-tax-district/article_910bff5c-67bd-11ef-a0a4-03f278295b4e.html

^

This TIF is structured differently than those in OKC.

At least here, there is a ceiling: once the target amount is reached, the TIF collection stops.

In all the OKC TIFs, the collection runs for the maximum period allowed by the state, 25 years. And typically, that means the amount collected can be many multiples of the original budget. BTW, this is how the sales tax will work for the arena as well. It will run for a set period and I guarantee the amount collected will be well more than estimated, as has been the case with every single MAPS.

Has OU thought about simply threatening relocation to Kansas City if they don’t get their new arena?

Has OU thought about simply threatening relocation to Kansas City if they don’t get their new arena?

hmmm... the seattle supersooners?

Has OU thought about simply threatening relocation to Kansas City if they don’t get their new arena?

Just one town over. Although, I don't see OU wanting to be under the shadow of a casino. Sends the wrong message.

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

Tell that to all the girls in sororities who frequent the target.

I think people assume that if the arena isn't a complete dump and there's something to do nearby before and after the game, more students would be interested in showing up. And what percentage of students even live on campus? Outside of freshmen, athletes and fraternities/sorority (Sophomores and Juniors primarily), it would seem like a pretty low number.

Of course the real assumption is that more alumni and fans from the rest of the OKC metro may show up more often.

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

building the arena at this location has almost nothing to do with students ..

I find it interesting that both OU, and many on this board, just assume that if built, students will magically start attending games. This area is farther from where most students live than where LNC is currently located. Further, this area is a traffic nightmare. Hell, when I was in college--not long ago--I lived closer to this area than LNC and wouldn't go to games if they were being played up here. Just going to Crest and Target was enough of a burden.

i find it interesting that many on the board assume that if built, it will hurt tax collection for 25 years because police and fire won't get money, even though they will, and that if there is a major influx to apartments that all of this money will keep going to the TIF for 25 years instead of school, when if paid off, the TIF goes away and so those massive apartment projects would actually get more money to schools faster than the current growth rate. or that they assume that if this isn't built, there will magically become a project to put this on campus (like brooks and jenkins) even though that project has never been discussed by the OU athletic department, and there are no plans for that to ever happen.

My cousin is a freshman at OU. Last week at lunch, we were talking about the new OKC arena and I talked about the new OU arena and she didn't know anything about it. She asked people in her class about it and most of them knew nothing about it. They just don't go to basketball games. If they are trying to get more students to go to games, they haven't done a great job.

My cousin is a freshman at OU. Last week at lunch, we were talking about the new OKC arena and I talked about the new OU arena and she didn't know anything about it. She asked people in her class about it and most of them knew nothing about it. They just don't go to basketball games. If they are trying to get more students to go to games, they haven't done a great job.

and this is the key... OU tried basically since Blake Griffin left, to get students to basketball games... they just don't want to go. they finally realized during Buddy Hield that it's the alumni who can come to games and pack the arena. so here we are now looking at an arena that works to try and get more alumni even in the okay times, and just ignoring trying to get students to come. they won't discourage students coming, and if they do start to get interest and go to games, cool. but that isn't in the plan for the new arena, because it's pointless, based upon their last 15 years of trying to build the brand with that age group

Students don't go to sporting events like they used to.

Even for football games, they come late and leave early.

All this stuff is on TV anyway for anyone interested. This is why they don't need a huge capacity for a new arena and why there are no current plans to increase the size of the football stadium.

All the revenue is generated through season ticket holders and suite/club sales.

My cousin is a freshman at OU. Last week at lunch, we were talking about the new OKC arena and I talked about the new OU arena and she didn't know anything about it. She asked people in her class about it and most of them knew nothing about it. They just don't go to basketball games. If they are trying to get more students to go to games, they haven't done a great job.

It is not really their fault for not going to basketball games since the Sooners have not been very good since Buddy left

This whole thing plays into my belief that bigtime college athletics will eventually become disconnected from the universities. Everything is headed that direction. The Sooners, Longhorns, Crimson Tide… they are billion dollar brands. NIL, open transfers via the portal, millionaire sophomore quarterbacks, it’s no longer “student athletes” participating in “amateur athletics.” Many think I’m crazy, but I truly believe the big break will come ‘sooner’ rather than later.

It is not really their fault for not going to basketball games since the Sooners have not been very good since Buddy left

I'm talking about all students/sports/colleges, not just OU.

Every school is moving towards smaller student sections and more suites, club, and donor seats.

I was an OU student. Students don't support sporting events. Most students go to games because they get tickets at a discounted price. But for the most part, they are not looking ahead booking tickets and making payments as a season ticket holder. That is mostly for your alumni that is 50 y/o +. But the bottom line is, you win, you sell tickets, and unfortunately OU basketball has been in the shadow of OU football for several decades.

and this is the key... OU tried basically since Blake Griffin left, to get students to basketball games... they just don't want to go. they finally realized during Buddy Hield that it's the alumni who can come to games and pack the arena. so here we are now looking at an arena that works to try and get more alumni even in the okay times, and just ignoring trying to get students to come. they won't discourage students coming, and if they do start to get interest and go to games, cool. but that isn't in the plan for the new arena, because it's pointless, based upon their last 15 years of trying to build the brand with that age group

Another reason to build the new arena on-campus. Students can’t ignore a massive construction project that they see everyday heading to class. And then being within a mile of where 8,000 students live will make it easier than ever for students to attend games.

There is a case study for this in the SEC that OU should follow: Auburn. Not a basketball school and with an outdated arena, they built a new arena 15 years ago with a 9k seating capacity and part of a larger student housing redevelopment on campus, like what OU is doing along and south of Lindsey. It took some time but eventually they hired a good coach that was able to attract good players due to the excitement generated by the new arena, and they are now a perennial Top 10 program.

Another reason to build the new arena on-campus. Students can’t ignore a massive construction project that they see everyday heading to class. And then being within a mile of where 8,000 students live will make it easier than ever for students to attend games.

There is a case study for this in the SEC that OU should follow: Auburn. Not a basketball school and with an outdated arena, they built a new arena 15 years ago with a 9k seating capacity and part of a larger student housing redevelopment on campus, like what OU is doing along and south of Lindsey. It took some time but eventually they hired a good coach that was able to attract good players due to the excitement generated by the new arena, and they are now a perennial Top 10 program.

absolutely Auburn is a case study for it. they just shrunk their already small student section even smaller by putting in a new tunnel right through the middle of it, to trim 15 seconds for the team walking to and from the locker room.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wde/comments/1g90z6p/auburn_cuts_seats_out_of_the_student_section_to/

this literally just happened in the lead up to this season. so Auburn felt that decreasing the size of their student section by somewhere between 30-45 seats was an easy choice. Because students aren't really going to game anymore... so removing seats will push them closer together.

UNIVERSITES DON'T CARE ABOUT STUDENT ATTENDANCE. this is because the students that want to go, are already going. and most don't want to go anymore.

absolutely Auburn is a case study for it. they just shrunk their already small student section even smaller by putting in a new tunnel right through the middle of it, to trim 15 seconds for the team walking to and from the locker room.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wde/comments/1g90z6p/auburn_cuts_seats_out_of_the_student_section_to/

this literally just happened in the lead up to this season. so Auburn felt that decreasing the size of their student section by somewhere between 30-45 seats was an easy choice. Because students aren't really going to game anymore... so removing seats will push them closer together.

UNIVERSITES DON'T CARE ABOUT STUDENT ATTENDANCE. this is because the students that want to go, are already going. and most don't want to go anymore.

yeah and they also make way less money on students attending.

This whole thing plays into my belief that bigtime college athletics will eventually become disconnected from the universities. Everything is headed that direction. The Sooners, Longhorns, Crimson Tide… they are billion dollar brands. NIL, open transfers via the portal, millionaire sophomore quarterbacks, it’s no longer “student athletes” participating in “amateur athletics.” Many think I’m crazy, but I truly believe the big break will come ‘sooner’ rather than later.

I’ve heard several people say this and just don’t think there is any way that ever happens. The only reason anyone cares about these teams is because they’re associated with the universities. If OU or Alabama separated from the schools, they’d just become some random semi pro football teams…people would care about them as much as they do the Arlington Renegades. Giving up nearly every Saturday in the fall for OU football is already a strain but if it was completely disconnected from the school I would not give enough of a **** about it to spend so much of my time on it.

I was just in Oxford for the OU-Ole Miss game and was able to see the SJB Pavilion which has a capacity of 9,500 and was completed for $96.5M in 2016. It is right next to the football stadium on-campus on what was formerly a parking lot (sound familiar?). This and Auburn are great examples for OU to follow from fellow SEC schools in towns smaller than Norman.

Those schools have been getting the big SEC money for decades and also built those facilities before hundreds of millions had to be steered to NIL.

Completely different situations.

Ole Miss has had great student attendance to games, even when they were not good, for decades. OU doesn't fit that.

Ole Miss has had great student attendance to games, even when they were not good, for decades. OU doesn't fit that.

After my trip to Ole Miss this past weekend it is obvious OU has a long way to go to being even on the same tier as SEC schools. And I'm not talking about football. Tailgating, student section, fan energy, campus environment, Campus Corner/downtown bars and restaurants, all of it is significantly better in Oxford. It's going to take years (if not decades) and lots of money to change Norman. We are nowhere near "SEC ready".

After my trip to Ole Miss this past weekend it is obvious OU has a long way to go to being even on the same tier as SEC schools. And I'm not talking about football. Tailgating, student section, fan energy, campus environment, Campus Corner/downtown bars and restaurants, all of it is significantly better in Oxford. It's going to take years (if not decades) and lots of money to change Norman. We are nowhere near "SEC ready".

i completely agree.... i thought so a few years ago when it was all announced. and why i want to improve facilities to be the best they can be. so if the options are building the UNP arena, or waiting 2 more decades for a new arena, i would rather the UNP and we build that new energy around it. otherwise, we will be 2-3 decades behind

i completely agree.... i thought so a few years ago when it was all announced. and why i want to improve facilities to be the best they can be. so if the options are building the UNP arena, or waiting 2 more decades for a new arena, i would rather the UNP and we build that new energy around it. otherwise, we will be 2-3 decades behind

This is a failure on the part of the Athletic Director and OU.
JC got here in 97 and inherited a LNC that was already over 20 years old. What has he done in his tenure in regards to supporting the basketball program? Statue of Wayman? Naming the court or acknowledging Billy?
Why have the politically connected regents not used that influence for upgrades from the state?
OU is in this position from their own inaction, and to expect Norman to bail them out is nuts.
We are already a couple decades behind. No small thanks to the OU administration.
Based on conversations with neighbors, this vote in Feb, will be a wakeup call for OU and Larry the mayor.

This is a failure on the part of the Athletic Director and OU.
JC got here in 97 and inherited a LNC that was already over 20 years old. What has he done in his tenure in regards to supporting the basketball program? Statue of Wayman? Naming the court or acknowledging Billy?
Why have the politically connected regents not used that influence for upgrades from the state?
OU is in this position from their own inaction, and to expect Norman to bail them out is nuts.
We are already a couple decades behind. No small thanks to the OU administration.
Based on conversations with neighbors, this vote in Feb, will be a wakeup call for OU and Larry the mayor.

Those cities actually get support from their city, though. Norman acts like they don't want OU to succeed. If Ozu moved to OKC, Norman would die (probably for the best, honestly).

They don't try to compromise with OU, they act like OU is a burden. I hope and pray Norman gets what's coming to them.

They're not going to just abandon the norman campus and move to OKC. The only thing they've threatened to do is put the basketball/gymnastics arena outside the city limits; presumably in OKC or a nearby suburb. I'm not anti-UNP arena, but if the games are as sparsely attended as everyone says they are, then what's really the harm?

They're not going to just abandon the norman campus and move to OKC. The only thing they've threatened to do is put the basketball/gymnastics arena outside the city limits; presumably in OKC or a nearby suburb. I'm not anti-UNP arena, but if the games are as sparsely attended as everyone says they are, then what's really the harm?

I know they won't. I'm not foolish enough to think that. But I wish they could, and show Norman that Norman needs OU much more than OU needs Norman, in the long run.

But the arena should move to Moore, since students don't go to games anyway, and likely wouldn't even if the arena was closer. Basically take that whole Norman development and put it in Moore.

Tell that to all the girls in sororities who frequent the target.

I think people assume that if the arena isn't a complete dump and there's something to do nearby before and after the game, more students would be interested in showing up. And what percentage of students even live on campus? Outside of freshmen, athletes and fraternities/sorority (Sophomores and Juniors primarily), it would seem like a pretty low number.

Of course the real assumption is that more alumni and fans from the rest of the OKC metro may show up more often.

This is a recipe for having the student section completely empty at halftime... go to the bar next door at halftime and drink more!

This is a recipe for having the student section completely empty at halftime... go to the bar next door at halftime and drink more!

they already are leaving at halftime.... even in football.... lets stop this false narrative that the students at OU actually care

This is a recipe for having the student section completely empty at halftime... go to the bar next door at halftime and drink more!

Except that they serve alcohol at the games now.

Except that they serve alcohol at the games now.

Students, though... $8.50 for a beer versus $3.50 (specials may be even cheaper)?

they already are leaving at halftime.... even in football.... lets stop this false narrative that the students at OU actually care

Thank you!

It will be more convenient to have the new arena in UNP. Driving deep in Norman, and fighting traffic is a deterrent to some people attending games. UNP is the perfect location.