You seem to be taking the position that as soon as the city council votes yes this deal is executed, which is unlikely. WIthout seeing the deal/documents, I cant say.

that is a solid point ... . will be interesting to see how this goes

Did they ever clear up who is the actual owner of the stadium?

Lawsuit filed by 2 former mayors to throw out the scheduled non binding vote ...

https://www.normanok.gov/information-proposed-entertainment-district


According to the documents, the Norman City Charter requires that all special elections be called by ordinances and, in the June 11 meeting, the City Council called the special election by resolution, did not call the special election on a certain date and failed to follow the procedures of passing an ordinance.

when/if this gets thrown out ( and that seems likely) the non binding vote likely will not come back .. as it only passed 5-4 and 2 of the yes votes are no longer on the council (replaced by 2 pro arena votes)

looking more and more like (the TIF and arena project) this could be approved this summer ..

Lawsuit filed by 2 former mayors to throw out the scheduled non binding vote ...

https://www.normanok.gov/information-proposed-entertainment-district



when/if this gets thrown out ( and that seems likely) the non binding vote likely will not come back .. as it only passed 5-4 and 2 of the yes votes are no longer on the council (replaced by 2 pro arena votes)

looking more and more like (the TIF and arena project) this could be approved this summer ..

Alright, who’s down to split BG918’s tickets? LOL, jk

Lawsuit filed by 2 former mayors to throw out the scheduled non binding vote ...

https://www.normanok.gov/information-proposed-entertainment-district



when/if this gets thrown out ( and that seems likely) the non binding vote likely will not come back .. as it only passed 5-4 and 2 of the yes votes are no longer on the council (replaced by 2 pro arena votes)

looking more and more like (the TIF and arena project) this could be approved this summer ..

How much does it cost for Norman to have a vote that means absolutely nothing?

How much does it cost for Norman to have a vote that means absolutely nothing?

if there was already something for the city on that election date, not much.. if there wasn't, the cost of the ballots, which isn't insignificant.

Lawsuit filed by 2 former mayors to throw out the scheduled non binding vote ...

https://www.normanok.gov/information-proposed-entertainment-district



when/if this gets thrown out ( and that seems likely) the non binding vote likely will not come back .. as it only passed 5-4 and 2 of the yes votes are no longer on the council (replaced by 2 pro arena votes)

looking more and more like (the TIF and arena project) this could be approved this summer ..

and boom

there will be NO vote

https://x.com/KOCOKolby/status/1811478631828627894

https://www.normantranscript.com/news/nash-council-wont-consider-tif-until-close-enough-to-final-form/article_aff22ff2-409b-11ef-9790-5fbe99c8d4a7.html
Nash: Council won't consider TIF until 'close enough to final form'

A day after a district judge ruled the City of Norman cannot hold an advisory vote on a controversial arena project Aug. 27, a councilmember said the City Council will not consider the project any time soon.

{Ward 5 CM} Nash said the parties have not finalized important terms, including “what is built and when,” and “how much” the project would ultimately cost.

Assistant City Attorney Rick Knighton said yesterday that the parties have not agreed on who will own the arena either




“Until [those terms are] resolved, the TIF will not progress to Council,” Nash said on Facebook. “Depending on the extent of modifications that may be made, it may have to go backwards in the process to go back before committees. Ultimately, the project is in a holding pattern until these negotiations are complete.”

And BOOM. While the article only mentions one council member, the inference is there is a consensus.

Nm

https://www.normantranscript.com/news/nash-council-wont-consider-tif-until-close-enough-to-final-form/article_aff22ff2-409b-11ef-9790-5fbe99c8d4a7.html
Nash: Council won't consider TIF until 'close enough to final form'

A day after a district judge ruled the City of Norman cannot hold an advisory vote on a controversial arena project Aug. 27, a councilmember said the City Council will not consider the project any time soon.

{Ward 5 CM} Nash said the parties have not finalized important terms, including “what is built and when,” and “how much” the project would ultimately cost.

Assistant City Attorney Rick Knighton said yesterday that the parties have not agreed on who will own the arena either




“Until [those terms are] resolved, the TIF will not progress to Council,” Nash said on Facebook. “Depending on the extent of modifications that may be made, it may have to go backwards in the process to go back before committees. Ultimately, the project is in a holding pattern until these negotiations are complete.”

And BOOM. While the article only mentions one council member, the inference is there is a consensus.

keep in mind that Nash was 1 of the yes votes to schedule the non binding election .. his vote is not required to pass the TIF (or expected) so i would take ANYTHING he says on the matter with a grain of salt ..

How could he be possibly be wrong on the “what is built and when”, “how much”, and “who will own the arena” questions? Those seem like pretty fundamental issues that Norman should need answers on before making plans to hand vast quantities of taxpayer dollars over to a bunch of developers.

^

Those questions aren't even addressed when OKC approves a TIF.

It's just a big pot of money and who gets it is decided behind closed doors (apart from the inevitable rubber stamp of City Council).

We didn't even know the location or anything specific about the $1 billion arena vote.

^

Those questions aren't even addressed when OKC approves a TIF.

It's just a big pot of money and who gets it is decided behind closed doors (apart from the inevitable rubber stamp of City Council).

We didn't even know the location or anything specific about the $1 billion arena vote.

Oh yeah, that's right. What was I thinking.

^

Those questions aren't even addressed when OKC approves a TIF.

It's just a big pot of money and who gets it is decided behind closed doors (apart from the inevitable rubber stamp of City Council).

We didn't even know the location or anything specific about the $1 billion arena vote.

So when funding for the Ford Center was approved it was not determined who would own the facility?

The Ford Center (now Paycom) was not funded by TIF. The private sector was not involved in the funding or ownership in any way; it was 100% funded by taxpayers and owned by the City via the MAPS tax/projects.

^

Those questions aren't even addressed when OKC approves a TIF.

It's just a big pot of money and who gets it is decided behind closed doors (apart from the inevitable rubber stamp of City Council).

We didn't even know the location or anything specific about the $1 billion arena vote.

exactly this...

Yes. For the first time I believe they are going to approve this TIF in the next few months. The rest will be hashed out behind closed doors with some coming out when they get closer to a final deal. I am guessing it will be owned and run by the OU Foundation with Norman having some sort of "first dibs" on events outside the sporting events. I'd guess by August the TIF is approved and they move forward on the stadium piece pretty quickly.

So when funding for the Ford Center was approved it was not determined who would own the facility?

Ford Center was MAPS, not TIF.

Speaking of University Town Center, the rumor going around is Two Frogs Grill is interested in the old Logan's spot. Would be a good location to expand to I would guess

Yes. For the first time I believe they are going to approve this TIF in the next few months. The rest will be hashed out behind closed doors with some coming out when they get closer to a final deal. I am guessing it will be owned and run by the OU Foundation with Norman having some sort of "first dibs" on events outside the sporting events. I'd guess by August the TIF is approved and they move forward on the stadium piece pretty quickly.

I agree except i think it will be owned by the city of Norman and the OU foundation will have a long term operational lease .. (30 years or so) for like 1 dollar a year ..

Speaking of University Town Center, the rumor going around is Two Frogs Grill is interested in the old Logan's spot. Would be a good location to expand to I would guess

Oh that would be wild, a Two Frogs I don't have to drive all the way to Ardmore to visit. If this was a democracy I would be voting yes.

I agree except i think it will be owned by the city of Norman and the OU foundation will have a long term operational lease .. (30 years or so) for like 1 dollar a year ..
Does the UofO own the ground? Was’nt the whole area owned by OU?

Does the UofO own the ground? Was’nt the whole area owned by OU?

OU foundation owns the land ..

I agree except i think it will be owned by the city of Norman and the OU foundation will have a long term operational lease .. (30 years or so) for like 1 dollar a year ..

Havent Norman officials said publicly they arent interested in owning it?

Havent Norman officials said publicly they arent interested in owning it?

Yes. The mayor wanted it in a public trust where the city just deals with roads/traffic.

What do you all think about the Oklahoma City Blue also playing in the stadium if it gets built? The location is easy to get to, so the Thunder can still play their two way and end of the bench guys in Blue games and Thunder games in the same day. The NBA doesn't want the blue playing in the Paycom center because it is too big, this facility seems like it would be a good fit size wise for the team. It also provides a little more value to the people in Norman for the investment into the facility.

What do you all think about the Oklahoma City Blue also playing in the stadium if it gets built? The location is easy to get to, so the Thunder can still play their two way and end of the bench guys in Blue games and Thunder games in the same day. The NBA doesn't want the blue playing in the Paycom center because it is too big, this facility seems like it would be a good fit size wise for the team. It also provides a little more value to the people in Norman for the investment into the facility.

as long as the thunder group has no control or ownership over it, and are just a paying tenant who is like third on the scheduling order, i'm good with it

Developer: Agreement close for Norman entertainment project
By : Jeff Elkins//The Journal Record//July 23, 2024//

NORMAN – An economic development agreement with the City of Norman for the entertainment district in University North Park is almost complete, the project’s lead developer says.

The Development Oversight Committee for TIF District 2 met last week to discuss plans for the $1 billion entertainment district near Interstate 35 and Rock Creek Road. Traffic plans and impacts are still being considered and city finance staff told the committee that the economic development agreement for the project had not been reached.

Dallas-based Rainier Companies CEO Danny Lovell, lead developer on the project, said as of Monday, they’re on the verge of an agreement.

“I think the city is used to having specific development plans on specific pieces of dirt, and this is obviously much larger, more complicated, involves multiple landowners and a vision over a long period of time,” Lovell said. “But I’m confident now that there was a meeting last week with the development team and the city to kind of bridge the gap on some items that were left outstanding. I’m confident if they’re not all agreed on now, then they will be shortly.”

The project spans approximately 240 acres, which includes about 90 acres of land owned by the OU Foundation, 60 acres controlled by the Norman Economic Development Coalition and 88 acres owned by others.

Lovell said he couldn’t discuss specific details in the agreement, but one of the general discussion points was how to hold the developer accountable.

“Obviously we’re used to being held accountable for development plans, however, they’re not always encompassing land that other people own,” Lovell said. “I think there’s multiple points within there that were being refined and really talked through, and that was, I’ll just say, one of the concepts that I think were discussed, written and agreed on now that everybody kind of understands.”

How is a $1 billion entertainment district possible in Norman?
Lovell also spoke on the apprehension expressed by some who are reluctant to support the district. One of the main concerns from some Norman city residents, planning commissioners and city councilmembers is that the district could cannibalize retail and dining in other areas of the city. Lovell anticipates the district will bring new activity, and he supports his projection based on his last business deal in Norman.

Rainier Companies in 2019 purchased University Town Center, a class-A shopping center with more than 400,000 square feet of retail that accounts for 7.5% of Norman’s tax revenue, according to the city’s finance department.

“Back in 2005 when that was built, the occupancy in Norman for retail retailers was 96% and it didn’t dip until 2019 when it dropped to 95%,” Lovell said. “That told us that not only were they bringing retailers from outside of the city that weren’t currently there, but anybody that did move around or expand was backfilled by somebody else.”

Lovell said his company purchased University Town Center because the state’s third-largest city became a super-regional shopping destination and reaps the benefit of being 20 minutes from Oklahoma City.

When a retailer opens an Oklahoma City store and then looks to expand further into the state, Lovell said they likely choose a north, south or western metro-area location, but aside from growth near Interstate 240 in the last decade, options are limited.

“That’s become the place that retailers want to be if they’re going to have a southern Oklahoma City store because there’s access to (Interstate 35) for shoppers, as well as a lot of tourism around sporting events and other community events within Norman,” Lovell said.

As an Oklahoma native who went to school at the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma Christian University, Lovell said the entertainment district is a passion project. He said many up-and-coming arena projects are in major cities like Los Angeles or Washington, D.C., and it’s rare to have a project of this magnitude in a town of 120,000 people, which is only possible with a catalyst.

“Norman couldn’t sustain a $1 billion project with 120,000 people. There’s not enough volume or revenue, right? So, what we’ve got here is the state’s flagship university, its need for an arena, and Norman’s need for a community event center, and the city has the ability to leverage that into a large and walkable mixed-use district,” Lovell said. “It’s a unique set of circumstances that just doesn’t happen in a lot of places.”

When the project went before Norman Planning Commission last month, multiple residents said they weren’t opposed to a large entertainment district in town, they just want OU to pay for their arena.

Lovell said he understands that, but the public-private partnership with OU is what could give Norman the ability to generate tax revenue that they would otherwise not be able to.

“In our estimation, we couldn’t build what we’re talking about building, or what we envisioned to build without a large anchor,” Lovell said.

I'm biased, and realize the two are not related; but I'd rather see $1 billion in (re)development at Campus Corner and downtown.

I'm biased, and realize the two are not related; but I'd rather see $1 billion in (re)development at Campus Corner and downtown.

i mean i would like to see both of those projects too... but still along with this one

I'm biased, and realize the two are not related; but I'd rather see $1 billion in (re)development at Campus Corner and downtown.

I've said this all along. This just sucks more energy away from the areas the city have been redeveloping.

Campus Corner is suffering from two owners wanting exorbitant rent so it just kills the area. I wish OU owned that and could rent it out. It is definitely not SEC ready.

Main street already has a TIF as far as I know and no shops stay empty long.

Campus Corner is suffering from two owners wanting exorbitant rent so it just kills the area. I wish OU owned that and could rent it out. It is definitely not SEC ready.

Main street already has a TIF as far as I know and no shops stay empty long.

exactly this... and we can't use a TIF to force people to sell their businesses like that. But it's funny because we were literally talking on this site about a massive redevelopment of campus corner, and it literally fell apart because because of a few of the owners...

that is why i made my response to the person saying they wish that a billion dollar investment was happing to CC, because (while i don't know the total price tag), we almost had a massive CC redevelopment and this in UNP

exactly this... and we can't use a TIF to force people to sell their businesses like that. But it's funny because we were literally talking on this site about a massive redevelopment of campus corner, and it literally fell apart because because of a few of the owners...

that is why i made my response to the person saying they wish that a billion dollar investment was happing to CC, because (while i don't know the total price tag), we almost had a massive CC redevelopment and this in UNP

There are acres of land owned by OU along University Blvd. that could be part of a huge redevelopment of Campus Corner. I would think the First Presbyterian Church would also entertain selling their property and downsizing at a different location.

The strip centers at Boyd & Jenkins are also ripe for redevelopment into higher-density mixed-use buildings especially as more student housing gets built closer to the RR tracks. I know of at least one 7-story student housing project that has been discussed for Boyd & Trout.

There are acres of land owned by OU along University Blvd. that could be part of a huge redevelopment of Campus Corner. I would think the First Presbyterian Church would also entertain selling their property and downsizing at a different location.

The strip centers at Boyd & Jenkins are also ripe for redevelopment into higher-density mixed-use buildings especially as more student housing gets built closer to the RR tracks. I know of at least one 7-story student housing project that has been discussed for Boyd & Trout.

OU owns 1 plot along their with very little university frontage .. and first presbyterian has 0 interest in moving ..

There are acres of land owned by OU along University Blvd. that could be part of a huge redevelopment of Campus Corner. I would think the First Presbyterian Church would also entertain selling their property and downsizing at a different location.

The strip centers at Boyd & Jenkins are also ripe for redevelopment into higher-density mixed-use buildings especially as more student housing gets built closer to the RR tracks. I know of at least one 7-story student housing project that has been discussed for Boyd & Trout.

why would the church be interested in moving?

There are acres of land owned by OU along University Blvd. that could be part of a huge redevelopment of Campus Corner. I would think the First Presbyterian Church would also entertain selling their property and downsizing at a different location.

can you please point out the records showing which plots of land OU owns in Campus corner please. i actually would like to see that.
Because all i can find is a few houses and some parking lots, clearly not enough for a massive renovation


The strip centers at Boyd & Jenkins are also ripe for redevelopment into higher-density mixed-use buildings especially as more student housing gets built closer to the RR tracks. I know of at least one 7-story student housing project that has been discussed for Boyd & Trout.

Only if those owners want to... and they apparently don't. which is why the massive redevelopment effort that was trying to be done failed. again. can we have a discussion in reality. yes, i would love to see those redeveloped, but the owners apparently don't and don't want to sell. so what are you suggesting that can actually happen? because a proposed plan was already attempted and failed

can you please point out the records showing which plots of land OU owns in Campus corner please. i actually would like to see that.

OU owns the parking lot north of Boyd House with the exception of the parking area across the street from the church and due south of the NOUN Hotel. They also own Whitehand Hall and the buildings to the north (where Blackbird used to be located).

Areas in red are owned by OU
https://photos.fife.usercontent.google.com/pw/AP1GczO4AYRKtGvpn1IgecXLRXMTTA9xcHI35naHX1PUXXNOUF SXCtRgvS0_=w750-h405-s-no-gm?authuser=0

i'm not able to see an image. maybe it's being blocked currently

OU owns the parking lot north of Boyd House with the exception of the parking area across the street from the church and due south of the NOUN Hotel. They also own Whitehand Hall and the buildings to the north (where Blackbird used to be located).

okay, thank you for that info. so all the places i saw. and so not much land for a massive renovation project. sure they could do something on that, but it really wouldn't be that large

OU owns the parking lot north of Boyd House with the exception of the parking area across the street from the church and due south of the NOUN Hotel. They also own Whitehand Hall and the buildings to the north (where Blackbird used to be located).

nope there is another parking lot south of the church parking also fronting boyd that OU does NOT own ..


OU has 50 feet of frontage just north of boyd house then a gap then another 50 feel of frontage ... that is it ..

OU owns .93 acre parcel there .. a .41 parcel and a .38 parcel .. and a .92860 parcel

for 2.726 acres total ..

nope there is another parking lot south of the church parking also fronting boyd that OU does NOT own ..


OU has 50 feet of frontage just north of boyd house then a gap then another 50 feel of frontage ... that is it ..

OU owns .93 acre parcel there .. a .41 parcel and a .38 parcel ..

for 1.72 acres total ..

yup. exactly.

nope there is another parking lot south of the church parking also fronting boyd that OU does NOT own ..


OU has 50 feet of frontage just north of boyd house then a gap then another 50 feel of frontage ... that is it ..

OU owns .93 acre parcel there .. a .41 parcel and a .38 parcel .. and a .92860 parcel

for 2.726 acres total ..

Like I said, OU owns acres of land in Campus Corner and could purchase the additional parking lots and properties along University Blvd. Not to mention OU owns all land in between Boyd, Jenkins, Trout and Brooks with the exception of a few parcels along Trout.

First hearing on the new TIF for the stadium is on Sept. 3rd and the final reading and vote look to be on Sept. 17th.

First of two public meetings about the TIF district/arena were held. From the article: O’Connor outlined objectives for the project: retaining and expanding employment, reversing stagnation, preserving and enhancing the tax base, and stimulating private commitments to invest and reinvest in the area.

Reverse stagnation? What is stagnating in Norman? Hasnt Pete said that UNP is the most visited retail center in the state?

They also claim 140 events will happen at the new arena, so one about every 2.5 days. Sounds about as unrealistic as the Sunset Amphitheater's projections.

https://journalrecord.com/2024/09/norman-holds-first-public-hearing-on-1b-entertainment-district/

First of two public meetings about the TIF district/arena were held. From the article: O’Connor outlined objectives for the project: retaining and expanding employment, reversing stagnation, preserving and enhancing the tax base, and stimulating private commitments to invest and reinvest in the area.

Reverse stagnation? What is stagnating in Norman? Hasnt Pete said that UNP is the most visited retail center in the state?

They also claim 140 events will happen at the new arena, so one about every 2.5 days. Sounds about as unrealistic as the Sunset Amphitheater's projections.

https://journalrecord.com/2024/09/norman-holds-first-public-hearing-on-1b-entertainment-district/

If the university wants to host 2 events a week there they absolutely could. They have a staggering amount of bull**** going on. The vast majority of those events will not drive any sort of revenue to the local area though. It will mostly be internal OU events.

First of two public meetings about the TIF district/arena were held. From the article: O’Connor outlined objectives for the project: retaining and expanding employment, reversing stagnation, preserving and enhancing the tax base, and stimulating private commitments to invest and reinvest in the area.

Reverse stagnation? What is stagnating in Norman? Hasnt Pete said that UNP is the most visited retail center in the state?

They also claim 140 events will happen at the new arena, so one about every 2.5 days. Sounds about as unrealistic as the Sunset Amphitheater's projections.

https://journalrecord.com/2024/09/norman-holds-first-public-hearing-on-1b-entertainment-district/

Norman, economically, isn't growing much. No new large-scale developments, no major companies opening or setting up shop in Norman.

So while the retail side is fine, it has nothing unique or special about it. It benefits from a massive Crest and Super Target, and 30,000 college students who have parents money to spend.

They also claim 140 events will happen at the new arena, so one about every 2.5 days. Sounds about as unrealistic as the Sunset Amphitheater's projections.


i mean just between OU men's and women's basketball and women's gymnastics, there is basically 40 of those. now include graduations, perhaps both OU and high schools, there is a chance for some high school basketball tournaments, we are down to about 85 events a year. that isn't unreasonable for an indoor arena that won't be affected by weather. just because Paycom center has been extremely underused for the past 15 years doesn't mean that other arena can't find and hold events.

If the university wants to host 2 events a week there they absolutely could. They have a staggering amount of bull**** going on. The vast majority of those events will not drive any sort of revenue to the local area though. It will mostly be internal OU events.

The only 2 sure things at this point are the CC will pass it Sept. 17 regardless if there is an economic development plan in place or not. The other is there will be an organized petition drive to overturn the approval.

The only 2 sure things at this point are the CC will pass it Sept. 17 regardless if there is an economic development plan in place or not. The other is there will be an organized petition drive to overturn the approval.

once the money is encumbered .. I am not sure that it can be overturned ..

1916919170
Saw some updated marketing materials for the next phase of University Town Center.

Still just the Main Event on there like the older one, or am I missing something?

once the money is encumbered .. I am not sure that it can be overturned ..


today is the day

public hearing is scheduled for 5pm

the special meeting with the vote is scheduled for 6:30pm

link to watch

https://youtu.be/HAcIFo8Mzlc

Yay a new arena next to a strip mall, paid for by diverting $600M from the City of Norman's general fund! If this passes and you live in Norman you should be livid.

Yay a new arena next to a strip mall, paid for by diverting $600M from the City of Norman's general fund! If this passes and you live in Norman you should be livid.

no one is beating down the doors to build an arena with any private money anywhere else in Norman. Is it an ideal situation, no. But it is the only way OU gets a new arena, which is needed for OU, given how terrible the LNC is.

More boxes in a sea of asphalt......the typical overpromise and under-deliver state of affairs.

More boxes in a sea of asphalt......the typical overpromise and under-deliver state of affairs.

I truly hope you hadn't held out hope for a lifestyle center. That was dead years and years ago. Heck, this area was under trees for a decade.

The overpromise and under-deliver was a thing 15 years ago, when the lifestyle was declared dead. Now it is a "better this than nothing" thing.

I truly hope you hadn't held out hope for a lifestyle center. That was dead years and years ago. Heck, this area was under trees for a decade.

Oh no, I didn't have any of those delusions. I know better. Lol.

But seeing places like OAK gives hope that maybe future projects will be done to a higher standard. At least more of them. It's going to take time to leave the ingrained tendency toward cheap and easy behind. I just hate seeing this sort of thing perpetuated when developers, residents, and local government knows what right looks like. I think we should collectively have higher expectations for the place we live and stop settling.

no one is beating down the doors to build an arena with any private money anywhere else in Norman. Is it an ideal situation, no. But it is the only way OU gets a new arena, which is needed for OU, given how terrible the LNC is.

It is not the responsibility or obligation of the City of Norman to fund a facility for the benefit of the state. The legislature and OU are ignoring their responsibility for state infrastructure.
Joe H, Joe C, and the legislature need to take care of their house.

More boxes in a sea of asphalt......the typical overpromise and under-deliver state of affairs.

Enough parking for maybe two Pappadeaux restaurants.