Sad that this specific area was to be the lifestyle center. Now? Nothing even remotely resembling one. It is good sales tax revenue for Norman, but just sad, given what Norman was promoted in 2005-2006.
Not really though, because these “new” shops are just moving over from Main St.

Not really though, because these “new” shops are just moving over from Main St.

with the exception of main event. that is new

with the exception of main event. that is new

Very true.

Nm

Nm

Main event will do well. Now if a Top Golf comes in it will be solid.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/review-committee-approves-proposed-entertainment-district-norman-city-council/article_7461f3ec-1926-11ef-854f-cfba97be18d4.html
On to City Council

Any word on when main event and the new hobby lobby/mardel will open?

Any word on when main event and the new hobby lobby/mardel will open?

I'd guess quite a while. That area is just flattened. I dont see any foundation type work yet.

New renderings. Press conference going on currently.

18886

18885

https://www.oudaily.com/news/norman-public-schools-nps-board-of-education-tif-university-north-park-entertainment-district-cep-community-eligibility-provision-program/article_5c8c656e-228a-11ef-8045-7746cdc81fdf.htm

NPS discusses TIF ramifications

New renderings. Press conference going on currently.

18886

18885

this should pass planning next week and then on to council .. where there is a very strong belief that it will pass and we will see dirt moving in 2025

New renderings. Press conference going on currently.

18886

18885

I just can't wait for the day that we can have lunch at "Cool Restaurant" in Midtown and follow it up with a dinner at "SOLAR"

this should pass planning next week and then on to council .. where there is a very strong belief that it will pass and we will see dirt moving in 2025

also cost is now up to 330 mil .. with OU / developers picking up the other 100 mil

Here is the Journal Record Article on this development. $1B entertainment district to transform Norman (https://journalrecord.com/2024/06/1b-entertainment-district-to-transform-norman/)

also cost is now up to 330 mil .. with OU / developers picking up the other 100 mil

The cost increase won't stop there. Has anyone ever seen a project this large stay on budget?

The cost increase won't stop there. Has anyone ever seen a project this large stay on budget?

I remember last year it was supposed to be an 80/20 split for 8k seats. What a load of BS. The City couldn't even contract a new library without issues. A boondoggle that rewards the State of Oklahoma for not funding the school. Horrible use of local resources

I remember last year it was supposed to be an 80/20 split for 8k seats. What a load of BS. The City couldn't even contract a new library without issues. A boondoggle that rewards the State of Oklahoma for not funding the school. Horrible use of local resources
I wonder how much the city of Norman benefits by having the University of Oklahoma there. Seems like there is a symbiotic relationship with Norman already getting a huge amount of benefit from the state.

Norman would not be Norman without the University of Oklahoma. It is a symbiotic relationship that both for sure benefit from.

I remember last year it was supposed to be an 80/20 split for 8k seats. What a load of BS. The City couldn't even contract a new library without issues. A boondoggle that rewards the State of Oklahoma for not funding the school. Horrible use of local resources

an 80/20 split what are you talking about .... last year the arena was 100% funding with the tif dollars .. now it is only less then 70% funded with tif dollars .. an improvement ..

the city is not the one building this .. and it is not taking local resources .. no matter how many time you say it is

I wonder how much the city of Norman benefits by having the University of Oklahoma there. Seems like there is a symbiotic relationship with Norman already getting a huge amount of benefit from the state.

exactly correct ..

an 80/20 split what are you talking about .... last year the arena was 100% funding with the tif dollars .. now it is only less then 70% funded with tif dollars .. an improvement ..

the city is not the one building this .. and it is not taking local resources .. no matter how many time you say it is

Just taking away resources from schools.

Just taking away resources from schools.
Stop the spin.

Stop the spin.

How’s it spin?

Just taking away resources from schools.

lol not TRUE which is why the schools rep on the TIF committee voted yes

Ok, stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyways:

The plot of land on Lloyd Noble is massive, as it is. Why wouldn't they build the new arena to the west of the old arena, tear down the old arena and redevelop the whole site into what they are proposing now?

I assume it has to do more with distance to the city to get people to come to the games?

Ok, stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyways:

The plot of land on Lloyd Noble is massive, as it is. Why wouldn't they build the new arena to the west of the old arena, tear down the old arena and redevelop the whole site into what they are proposing now?

I assume it has to do more with distance to the city to get people to come to the games?

They would have to give the developer rights to the land around LNC or take a much bigger investment in the whole development and the site would also not qualify for TIF since it is school property and not owned by a fund.

Ok, stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyways:

The plot of land on Lloyd Noble is massive, as it is. Why wouldn't they build the new arena to the west of the old arena, tear down the old arena and redevelop the whole site into what they are proposing now?

I assume it has to do more with distance to the city to get people to come to the games?

A. not close to the mass of people to support retail at that location ..

b. majority of season ticket holders are from the metro north of norman .. new location makes it easier to get to and from games .. and the before after food/drink/shopping is just a bonus ..

c. OU needed the city of norman on board for this and the UNP location (also owned by OU foundation ) made more sense for that.

lol not TRUE which is why the schools rep on the TIF committee voted yes
https://www.oudaily.com/news/norman-public-schools-nps-board-of-education-tif-university-north-park-entertainment-district-cep-community-eligibility-provision-program/article_5c8c656e-228a-11ef-8045-7746cdc81fdf.htm

{LOL} Migliorino, who was part of the review committee, wrote on May 23 that, while he voted to pass the project to the city council for further review, his vote didn’t represent the school board’s approval of the project in a statement released after the meeting.

A. not close to the mass of people to support retail at that location ..

b. majority of season ticket holders are from the metro north of norman .. new location makes it easier to get to and from games .. and the before after food/drink/shopping is just a bonus ..

c. OU needed the city of norman on board for this and the UNP location (also owned by OU foundation ) made more sense for that.

Also OU would pay all that. This is cheaper for them.

Also OU would pay all that. This is cheaper for them.

and if OU was going to pay for it all, then they would put it NE of the football stadium to put it closer to Campus Corner.

A. not close to the mass of people to support retail at that location .

UNP is already the #1 retail destination in the state. What are you posting?

Pretty sure he is referring to the LNC site

Stop the spin.

Its not spin. There is a huge amount of land in this TIF district, and a good portion of it would continue to organically develop without an arena. But if this passes, the ad valorem and sales taxes that would come from the "organic" development will now pay for this arena instead of going to schools, public health and safety, city coffers. All the sales taxes city of Norman gets now at Lloyd Noble concessions will go away if this passes. That is a direct reduction in revenues.

Just look at how UNP has already developed, dozens of retailers and restaurants that has happened without an arena. All the financial positives of future UNP development for city of Norman would be taken to pay for an arena that OU simply cant or doesnt want to pay for themselves. A small-ish arena mostly for college basketball isnt a firestarter for lots of development no matter what kind of big projected numbers you put into a presentation.

It's hard to understand the strong backlash against this TIF where OKC has given away billions (yes, with a 'b') with much more to come, and nobody seems bothered in the least.

Doesn't TIF only apply if something is built?

Last I checked, no one has tried developing any of this land since *checks notes* 2018, when OU last tried to put an arena there.

It's hard to understand the strong backlash against this TIF where OKC has given away billions (yes, with a 'b') with much more to come, and nobody seems bothered in the least.

True, but they are mostly made up of dozens of small projects. Was Devon towner and project 180 a TIF? Outside of that, nothing in OKC has come close to the size of this norman arena TIF.

OU officials couldnt even answer basic questions of how much the university is paying towards it and who will even own the arena at yesterdays press conference.

Doesn't TIF only apply if something is built?

Last I checked, no one has tried developing any of this land since *checks notes* 2018, when OU last tried to put an arena there.

To be fair, OU owns it (through the foundation) so there is no reason to sell unless they want. And they clearly want it for an arena.


It's hard to understand the strong backlash against this TIF where OKC has given away billions (yes, with a 'b') with much more to come, and nobody seems bothered in the least.

I think people don't understand TIF districts. Hell half the comments on social media are "They should spend the money on Main Street". Main street in Norman is already a TIF district, lol.

True, but they are mostly made up of dozens of small projects. Was Devon towner and project 180 a TIF? Outside of that, nothing in OKC has come close to the size of this norman arena TIF.

OU officials couldnt even answer basic questions of how much the university is paying towards it and who will even own the arena at yesterdays press conference.

Devon/P180 alone was hundreds of millions.

OKANA is $102 million and that's only for the first phase.

Boardwalk at Bricktown is $215 million.

It's hard to understand the strong backlash against this TIF where OKC has given away billions (yes, with a 'b') with much more to come, and nobody seems bothered in the least.

norman doesn't like OU even though it is why norman exists ..

norman doesn't like OU even though it is why norman exists ..

Who is this you claim represents Norman? Norman isn't an entity with opinions. And the citizens of Norman don't hate OU. There may be some who think they represent everyone else and are glad to tilt with the windmills, but most know what the soul and economic engine of Norman is. Are some jealous? Sure. Are some anti intellectual and anti universities because of their politics? Of course. But Normanites as a rule embrace OU and the lifestyle it contributes too.

BTW, there are outliers in Stillwater that feel the same way ... they resent OSU. It's just silly. And, if your name suggests you are in or in love with Boulder, the same is true with CU and Boulder.

Who is this you claim represents Norman? Norman isn't an entity with opinions. And the citizens of Norman don't hate OU. There may be some who think they represent everyone else and are glad to tilt with the windmills, but most know what the soul and economic engine of Norman is. Are some jealous? Sure. Are some anti intellectual and anti universities because of their politics? Of course. But Normanites as a rule embrace OU and the lifestyle it contributes too.

BTW, there are outliers in Stillwater that feel the same way ... they resent OSU. It's just silly. And, if your name suggests you are in or in love with Boulder, the same is true with CU and Boulder.

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

Who on the city council hates OU?

It's the classic Town vs. Gown tension that exists in every college town.

From what I've observed, OU has worked really hard with economic development in Norman, especially due to University Town Center, as they owned all the land (and still own a huge chunk).

This whole Team Norman collaboration was formed to adapt and take advantage of the new SEC ties. That group has been a huge part of getting this project back on track.

going back to even the early 2000's... (probably earlier) almost every City of Norman Committee had a connection with OU. i sat on the City of Norman Weather Industry Development Committee. it was comprised of people from the City of Norman and many people from OU. i'm sure this was occurring long before i was there in the early 2000's. as is usually the case with claims like this... the whole Norman hates OU theory, is not based in any reality.

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

These city councilors do have constituents to listen to, not just Harroz and Castiglione. I bet if you took it to the vote of the people it might not pass. It seems the only people who think this is a slam dunk of a deal are big OU fans and want a shiny new arena regardless of who pays for it.

The most vocal proponents are folks who do not live in Norman. As far as no opposition to a plethora of TIFS in OKC, who cares? Different cultures. To borrow a popular bumper sticker, Don't OKC my Norman

the gov the represents the people of norman ..

I am sorry, but they don't represent the THOUGHTS and FEELINGS if the individuals in the community. That isn't the role of government. A few people in a few seats do not do the thinking for the 130,000 Norman citizens. And the city council people don't all despise the university anyway, btw. I hate mindless broad brush characterizations anyway.

I am sorry, but they don't represent the THOUGHTS and FEELINGS if the individuals in the community. That isn't the role of government. A few people in a few seats do not do the thinking for the 130,000 Norman citizens.

I guess there is no such thing as a representative government then.

It's hard to understand the strong backlash against this TIF where OKC has given away billions (yes, with a 'b') with much more to come, and nobody seems bothered in the least.

Exactly

I guess there is no such thing as a representative government then.

You are confused about what government is and don’t acknowledge the fact that elected representatives don’t necessarily represent what everyone thinks on all issues. It doesn’t take near a majority of the population to elect someone, just a rabid section of the small % of people who actually vote. Citizens of Norman don’t hate OU.

an 80/20 split what are you talking about .... last year the arena was 100% funding with the tif dollars .. now it is only less then 70% funded with tif dollars .. an improvement ..

the city is not the one building this .. and it is not taking local resources .. no matter how many time you say it is

It is taking local resources though. Norman captures sales tax from all the purchases at the LNC. Norman will lose this revenue for 25 years
No matter how much you say it won't cost Norman, it will.

You are confused about what government is and don’t acknowledge the fact that elected representatives don’t necessarily represent what everyone thinks on all issues. It doesn’t take near a majority of the population to elect someone, just a rabid section of the small % of people who actually vote. Citizens of Norman don’t hate OU.

If the local government feels this is such a great deal, put it on the ballot for voter approval.

It is taking local resources though. Norman captures sales tax from all the purchases at the LNC. Norman will lose this revenue for 25 years
No matter how much you say it won't cost Norman, it will.

The city is still getting 50% of all INCREASE in ad valorem taxes and keep 40% of all Sales taxes all of which wouldn't have been paid without the development. But you have shown nothing but bias against it and that is your right. Just speak facts.

News to me. I thought the only taxes that Oklahoma municipalities could capture were sales taxes. How is Norman getting Ad Valorem taxes, gift from the County?
That 40% sales tax will not be paid for 25 years

News to me. I thought the only taxes that Oklahoma municipalities could capture were sales taxes. How is Norman getting Ad Valorem taxes, gift from the County?
That 40% sales tax will not be paid for 25 years

That isn't what it says on the TIF specifically and after the 25 years the city would get all of the sales tax. It's not in perpetuity.

That isn't what it says on the TIF specifically and after the 25 years the city would get all of the sales tax. It's not in perpetuity.

You are just repeating what I said about no sales tax collected for 25 years. Don't add words like pepertuity to my post. However Norman does not get it all. Norman gets 4.15% and the state gets 4.5%.
Also the proposed new residences will not be paying taxes for 25 years. These residenes will have kids that will require the building of a new school or two. What will be the funding source for new school construction?

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEilsBPYlzy20awnAna0BROtDIt8Ykssqx5nZCBT1W35kY D2QdqS6ef2Zcm8kx-f6fADju2HpWjf4yqPxdntykOvcj2wq_QOvy5BFC1AnthPGjK6g F68AJkwZVIubhQ2RZkIPjQW8YcyMxIvD91BTffzOJRUBMLg3gB WatKRgyzhMcPaoYvTcayjkIG4ZBgl

You are just repeating what I said about no sales tax collected for 25 years. Don't add words like pepertuity to my post. However Norman does not get it all. Norman gets 4.15% and the state gets 4.5%.
Also the proposed new residences will not be paying taxes for 25 years. These residenes will have kids that will require the building of a new school or two. What will be the funding source for new school construction?

So all of the sudden these homes won’t be paying property taxes either? Is that what you are saying? Bc property taxes are what builds schools not sales taxes. And yes, the city WILL be getting sales taxes from this development the entire 25 years and a larger share after.

Looks like the council will be considering a non-binding special election on August 27th for the TIF district https://meetings.municode.com/adaHtmlDocument/index?cc=NORMANOK&me=10f8ba70d76149ea8c760d0473f9fe18&ip=True