Because every other sport -- including basketball -- loses a lot of money.

Football makes a ton of money and that is only increasing with time, hence the continued investment.


It's not 'lazy' or 'stupid'. Besides BoulderSooner I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has ever had season tickets (I did for years) or even bothers to go to the games (I still see a few every year). I never missed a home game as a student and drove to ever single one of them... I'm not aware of any students who don't drive to the games, so nothing will really change in that regard.

Frankly put, pretty much none of the people commenting here have any idea what they are talking about.

There are very good reasons the university president, board of regents and both OU basketball coaches are strongly in favor of this plan.

I had season tickets in college and went to most of the games when I did (maybe walked from the dorms twice). Of course that was when the Griffins were there. Also went to a few games per year until I moved to Tulsa.

This is the best available plan and is a very good one given the circumstances.

It isn't "lazy". It is smart to make it way more accessable and fun for more in the area to enjoy. This idea that you could build this kind of magnetic entertainment district on campus is just fantasy.

This development makes sense for the city of Norman and for all us fans.

If that is the argument why not just play the games at Paycom center? Its much more centrally located than UNP. If ease of people coming from other areas is more important than proximity to campus what would be the argument against that? Think how much time would be saved from people coming from Edmond.

UNP was sold as a "magnetic entertainment district" that would attract people from Dallas and Kansas City when it was first proposed 15 years ago. So far It has turned out to be nothing but a generic big box store / fast food corridor on a curvy road. I doubt anyone has has traveled from KCMO and DFW to shop at the UNP Kohls and Target as the developers promised. I would take these new claims of what is going to go around this arena with the same grain of salt.

To piggyback on that, if RTA becomes a thing, and there is a stop here, it might drive more attendance from OKC metro.

The UNP site is over a mile from the rail line. It needs to be right next to a station to be effective. Another reason the Duck Pond has always been the preferred location on-campus

My prediction if this happens: OU will see a temporary boost in attendance because of the new arena. Student attendance will still suffer. In less than a decade OU will realize what a mistake they made and begin planning for an on-campus arena by the Duck Pond (north of the football operations center) and the City of Norman will be stuck with a useless arena. Look at 1st Bank Center in Broomfield, CO for a good case study.

If that is the argument why not just play the games at Paycom center? Its much more centrally located than UNP. If ease of people coming from other areas is more important than proximity to campus what would be the argument against that? Think how much time would be saved from people coming from Edmond.

if it was a potential option, i'm sure the University would entertain it. but seeing how the Thunder killed off any chance of hockey by saying they won't share with anyone as a tenant, that also is not a feasible option that is on the table. so, are we back to here or wait 20 years again yet?

Student attendance will still suffer.

lol. so it will drop for the current 15-30 students down to zero?

The UNP site is over a mile from the rail line. It needs to be right next to a station to be effective. Another reason the Duck Pond has always been the preferred location on-campus

My prediction if this happens: OU will see a temporary boost in attendance because of the new arena. Student attendance will still suffer. In less than a decade OU will realize what a mistake they made and begin planning for an on-campus arena by the Duck Pond (north of the football operations center) and the City of Norman will be stuck with a useless arena. Look at 1st Bank Center in Broomfield, CO for a good case study.

So doubling-down on something that is nowhere near being funded. Got it. You seem to think OU can just fart out money for an arena. This is ONLY a thing because someone else is footing $800 million. Not OU. OU doesn't have $200 million for an arena, let alone $800 million. So quit with these choices that require OU to foot the bill. That isn't happening, and is fiscally irresponsible, and shows a lack of resdhing comprehension from the posters who keep repeating the same thing over and over again, thinking with different words, the point will be more clear).

OU IS DOING THIS BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SAID "TAKE OUR $800 MILLION AND JOIN OUR NEW ARENA AS A MAIN TENANT". NOT BECAUSE OU HAS MONEY FOR A NEW ARENA, AND JUST WANTS TO SCREW OVER STUDENTS BY PUTTING IT AT UNP. BUT SOLELY BECUSE SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO LINK UP WITH OU FOR AN ARENA DEVELOPMENT. IT IS MONEY OU DOESN'T HAVE TO SPEND, UNLIKE EVERY OTHER OPTION MENTIONED (THINKING OU HAS INFINITE MONEY IS ASININE).

It is in all caps, so hopefully you won't OVERLOOK it.

So doubling-down on something that is nowhere near being funded. Got it. You seem to think OU can just fart out money for an arena. This is ONLY a thing because someone else is footing $800 million. Not OU. OU doesn't have $200 million for an arena, let alone $800 million. So quit with these choices that require OU to foot the bill. That isn't happening, and is fiscally irresponsible, and shows a lack of resdhing comprehension from the posters who keep repeating the same thing over and over again, thinking with different words, the point will be more clear).

OU IS DOING THIS BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE SAID "TAKE OUR $800 MILLION AND JOIN OUR NEW ARENA AS A MAIN TENANT". NOT BECAUSE OU HAS MONEY FOR A NEW ARENA, AND JUST WANTS TO SCREW OVER STUDENTS BY PUTTING IT AT UNP. BUT SOLELY BECUSE SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO LINK UP WITH OU FOR AN ARENA DEVELOPMENT. IT IS MONEY OU DOESN'T HAVE TO SPEND, UNLIKE EVERY OTHER OPTION MENTIONED (THINKING OU HAS INFINITE MONEY IS ASININE).

Im skeptical of this $1 billion number. Seems like a big number to throw out just to make it seem like this is a good idea. $1 billion of investment wont happen here for probably at least 2 decades, and it looks like it includes apartments. Not sure why its relevant to this arena discussion. And the effect that dining options nearby will have on attendance for college basketball or gymnastics is overestimated, plus you could already have that with an arena near the football stadium. Outside of the new-factor the first year or so, it wont improve non-student attendance and will certainly negatively effect student attendance.

BIggest question I have is about the "if this doesnt happen, nothing will for next 20 years" comments. Why? Wheres all that annual SEC windfall going? Wont OU earn about $15 million more in the SEC? That extra annual income is enough to finance a new arena. Or is that money already spent?

If that is the argument why not just play the games at Paycom center? Its much more centrally located than UNP. If ease of people coming from other areas is more important than proximity to campus what would be the argument against that? Think how much time would be saved from people coming from Edmond.

UNP was sold as a "magnetic entertainment district" that would attract people from Dallas and Kansas City when it was first proposed 15 years ago. So far It has turned out to be nothing but a generic big box store / fast food corridor on a curvy road. I doubt anyone has has traveled from KCMO and DFW to shop at the UNP Kohls and Target as the developers promised. I would take these new claims of what is going to go around this arena with the same grain of salt.

Because it's 30 minutes from the city of Norman which actually would make it hard for students to go and would be a terrible environment for a regular season college basketball game?

The UNP site is over a mile from the rail line. It needs to be right next to a station to be effective. Another reason the Duck Pond has always been the preferred location on-campus

My prediction if this happens: OU will see a temporary boost in attendance because of the new arena. Student attendance will still suffer. In less than a decade OU will realize what a mistake they made and begin planning for an on-campus arena by the Duck Pond (north of the football operations center) and the City of Norman will be stuck with a useless arena. Look at 1st Bank Center in Broomfield, CO for a good case study.

Yeah but then they'd have to bulldoze the duck pond and park...which nobody wants. You'd either have to put it south of Lindsay or on Jenkins and Brooks.

Again, why would the students, most of which who don't live on campus and all of which already drive to LNC, not attend because they have to drive or ride a shuttle for at most 3-5 minutes longer to get there?

Because every other sport -- including basketball -- loses a lot of money.

Football makes a ton of money and that is only increasing with time, hence the continued investment.

It's not 'lazy' or 'stupid'. Besides BoulderSooner I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has ever had season tickets (I did for years) or even bothers to go to the games (I still see a few every year). I never missed a home game as a student and drove to ever single one of them... I'm not aware of any students who don't drive to the games, so nothing will really change in that regard.

Frankly put, pretty much none of the people commenting here have any idea what they are talking about.

There are very good reasons the university president, board of regents and both OU basketball coaches are strongly in favor of this plan.

I'm not going to dig for actual receipts, but I have gone to plenty of games over the last 13 seasons (and will be going to plenty more this upcoming season, despite low expectations for how things will go in year three of the Moser era). Went to every game I could when I was a student at OU from 2010-12, despite not owning a car at the time. Learned to enjoy the walk down from Adams my freshman year, and over from Traditions West my sophomore year. Followed the team from afar for a few years while moving back home to Michigan to finish up my schooling, but was fortunate enough to move back to Norman in time for the dream season of 2015-16. Living in Moore and then OKC for the next few seasons, found myself making the drive down less and less, but COVID isolation made me reflect on how much I undervalued the LNC game experience. I then spent the first half of the 2021-22 season out of town, but have gone to 16 of 18 home games since being back in OKC. Anyways, I'm not really sure why I'm posting this. I certainly don't expect to change anyone's mind, and I know that I have no power to influence where OU basketball decides to play their home games. But I guess I just want to make a point that OU fans don't unanimously think that the LNC is a terrible venue, nor is it only OSU homers who think that moving games to a new off-campus arena isn't in OU's best interest. But ultimately, the fun thing is that at some point in the future, it does seem like we'll finally get to stop having endless theoretical arguments over this project, and get to actually see what happens in reality. I certainly hope that I'm proven wrong in my misgivings, but I have major doubts, and I suppose I think that it's worth expressing them here.

2010-11: 12 games
2011-12: 12 games
2012-13: lived in Michigan
2013-14: lived in Michigan
2014-15: lived in Michigan
2015-16: 14 games + 2 road games
2016-17: 5 games
2017-18: 7 games
2018-19: 2 games
2019-20: lived in Colorado
2020-21: COVID
2021-22: 8 games
2022-23: 14 games + 2 road games

Im skeptical of this $1 billion number. Seems like a big number to throw out just to make it seem like this is a good idea. $1 billion of investment wont happen here for probably at least 2 decades, and it looks like it includes apartments. Not sure why its relevant to this arena discussion. And the effect that dining options nearby will have on attendance for college basketball or gymnastics is overestimated, plus you could already have that with an arena near the football stadium. Outside of the new-factor the first year or so, it wont improve non-student attendance and will certainly negatively effect student attendance.

BIggest question I have is about the "if this doesnt happen, nothing will for next 20 years" comments. Why? Wheres all that annual SEC windfall going? Wont OU earn about $15 million more in the SEC? That extra annual income is enough to finance a new arena. Or is that money already spent?

Well using that number, if they didn't want to take on additional debt to build it, wanted to pay for all of it themselves, and didn't plan to use any of that money for any other sport...it would take 20 years to raise $300,000,000 and which by that time would like be near the cost of the new arena alone.

I'm sure OU's athletic program has done research on this over many years. If the whole program wants to move and do this deal it seems like they have good reason.

Im skeptical of this $1 billion number. Seems like a big number to throw out just to make it seem like this is a good idea. $1 billion of investment wont happen here for probably at least 2 decades, and it looks like it includes apartments. Not sure why its relevant to this arena discussion. And the effect that dining options nearby will have on attendance for college basketball or gymnastics is overestimated, plus you could already have that with an arena near the football stadium. Outside of the new-factor the first year or so, it wont improve non-student attendance and will certainly negatively effect student attendance.

BIggest question I have is about the "if this doesnt happen, nothing will for next 20 years" comments. Why? Wheres all that annual SEC windfall going? Wont OU earn about $15 million more in the SEC? That extra annual income is enough to finance a new arena. Or is that money already spent?

Not sure your point. $15 million is a fart in a hurricane in terms of the cost of an arena. OU isn't like a company that can put a down payment towards the purchase of an arena. They either have the money, or they issue bonds. OU doesn't want to do that. This windfall will help ease the burden OU football already has of funding all of the other money puts on campus (sports that lose money, but boost morale, like baseball, golf, tennis, etc).

So that extra money likely won't go towards one sport fully, but will help less leave the football program.

BIggest question I have is about the "if this doesnt happen, nothing will for next 20 years" comments. Why? Wheres all that annual SEC windfall going? Wont OU earn about $15 million more in the SEC? That extra annual income is enough to finance a new arena. Or is that money already spent?

a new basketball arena is behind

about 500 mil in football renovations /new facilities

40 mil in baseball renovations

and other things ..

so yeah it would be a long long time ..

Reminder that everyone involved at OU wanted this move 5 years ago and the only reason it didn't happen was a funding snag which now seems resolved.

So we are already another 5 years down the road, LNC is even less competitive and an on-campus facility isn't even the realm of possibility.

That's why OU wants to move on this and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen and the programs will both be far better for it.

Reminder that everyone involved at OU wanted this move 5 years ago and the only reason it didn't happen was a funding snag which now seems resolved.

So we are already another 5 years down the road, LNC is even less competitive and an on-campus facility isn't even the realm of possibility.

That's why OU wants to move on this and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen and the programs will both be far better for it.

I will also say that 5 years ago it took a little convincing to get everyone at OU fully onboard ..

over the last 5 years (mostly) behind the scenes the county, city, the norman economic dev folks,and EVERYONE at OU is fully behind this project and has done the vast majority of the politics and leg work already to make this happen

a new basketball arena is behind

about 500 mil in football renovations /new facilities

40 mil in baseball renovations

and other things ..

so yeah it would be a long long time ..

If OU got a billion in donations, a basketball arena would still not be on the list of projects funded. OU is behind this project 100%

If OU got a billion in donations, a basketball arena would still not be on the list of projects funded. OU is behind this project 100%

Yes...some of us would say that is exactly the problem.

Yes...some of us would say that is exactly the problem.

To build a new arena on campus, it would need to be NE of stadium or what is the point. Campus Corner area is filled with homes that all would need to sell. By the LNC doesn't move the needle.

I think the design of the arena will probably increase student attendance too. Lots of these newer college arenas have a 10-row or so area of bleachers on the lower level between the baselines for students that kind of imitates Cameron Indoor at Duke. Auburn's newer arena seats 9,000 and has that design. I think it is a great comp. At LNC the student section is set far back from the court and is chairbacks. It is out of the way and not conducive to packing it in/making it fun for students.

I would make sure the mixed use portion of this proposal is built and leased well before I promised to play home games in the new arena. If this ends up just being an 8,000 seat arena surrounded by nothing or is developed like the south portion of UTC is then staying at LNC for the next 20 years would be the better option by far.

To build a new arena on campus, it would need to be NE of stadium or what is the point. Campus Corner area is filled with homes that all would need to sell. By the LNC doesn't move the needle.

if someone gave OU 400 mil for a on campus basketball arena .. it would 100% happen .. at the NE corner of jenkins and brooks .. (the only small block that would be needed OU already owns 5 of the 14 lots)

but that is a fantasy world so it doesn't matter

I would make sure the mixed use portion of this proposal is built and leased well before I promised to play home games in the new arena. If this ends up just being an 8,000 seat arena surrounded by nothing or is developed like the south portion of UTC is then staying at LNC for the next 20 years would be the better option by far.

if this was a new building in an empty field at the proposed location it would still be 100x better then staying at the LNC

if this was a new building in an empty field at the proposed location it would still be 100x better then staying at the LNC

Yep.

Reminder that everyone involved at OU wanted this move 5 years ago and the only reason it didn't happen was a funding snag which now seems resolved.

So we are already another 5 years down the road, LNC is even less competitive and an on-campus facility isn't even the realm of possibility.

That's why OU wants to move on this and I'm pretty darn sure it's going to happen and the programs will both be far better for it.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-athletics-revives-arena-conversations-in-community-survey/article_4ca733c8-7be6-11ed-b8cb-231aeb479c4f.html
In 2017, the City of Norman unveiled a project to create a similarly described new entertainment district to house OU basketball and other amenities between Tecumseh and Rock Creek Roads in the University North Park area, roughly six miles from OU's campus.

The OU Foundation requested tax incentives through the University North Park tax increment district in 2018, according to the Norman Transcript. The foundation later withdrew its request in July 2018 after community members expressed opposition and a lawsuit alleging violations of the Oklahoma Open Records Act.
The "snag" was resolved after extensive lobbying of the legislature to exempt the OU Foundation from the Open Record Act.
https://nondoc.com/2021/03/04/ou-foundation-open-records/#:~:text=Meanwhile%2C%20the%20OU%20Foundation%20ha s%20tried%20unsuccessfully%20for,bill%20carving%20 out%20an%20Open%20Records%20Act%20exemption.
Meanwhile, the OU Foundation has tried unsuccessfully for two years to convince leaders of the Oklahoma Legislature to pass a bill specifically exempting university foundations from the Oklahoma Open Records Act.

This year, OU Foundation representatives requested that at least one legislator file a bill carving out an Open Records Act exemption. In addition, NonDoc obtained a March 2020 letter addressed to legislative leaders asking for university foundations to be exempted from the transparency statute.

Does OU currently own all the land that the proposed entertainment district would sit on? Who will own the land if this deal goes through? If OU sells it what will they get?

Does OU currently own all the land that the proposed entertainment district would sit on? Who will own the land if this deal goes through? If OU sells it what will they get?

Yes, the OU Foundation owns all of it.

They will likely contribute at least some of the land as a contribution towards the project. The rest will probably be sold for profit, as they did with all the land to the south in UTC.

I'm going to let the rest of you debate the funding, location, and viability of the new OU Arena and this Entertainment District. I also didn't attend either OU or OSU, so I have nothing to add to that back and forth. But I will say as a 25 year resident/home owner in Norman, this is the first time I have ever seen the City Officials, County, OU, Mayor, City Council, the Chamber, et al, all on the same page about anything. That just never happens. So that does give me some optimism that this has been well thought out, planned, and that the project will actually get built and be successful. I don't believe this project could feasibly be done on or close to the OU campus in the near future or that's what they would be proposing in the first place.

,,,

Joe C said earlier in the spring that 85 percent of students drive to games, so it shouldn’t be much of an issue. Also, 8k is a great number for the arena.

Joe C said earlier in the spring that 85 percent of students drive to games, so it shouldn’t be much of an issue. Also, 8k is a great number for the arena.

It's very hard for me to believe that even 15% don't drive. I never, ever saw that when I was a student.

Yes...some of us would say that is exactly the problem.

i mean i feel that softball, baseball, and men's and womens gymnastics deserve to be ahead of basketball.

[QUOTE=Pete;1243024] Besides BoulderSooner I seriously doubt anyone on this thread has ever had season tickets (I did for years) or even bothers to go to the games (I still see a few every year). I never missed a home game as a student and drove to ever single one of them... /QUOTE] Actually he isn't the only one. I attended all the football and basketball games starting in the late 60's while a student , both as a member of the band and after I left the band. After that I kept football season tickets until about 20 years ago and kept basketball season tickets until the late 80's. I kept a membership in the Sooner Club and Tip In Club. Attending games currently is a little more physically challenging for me.

My #1 concern is going to be the transportation infrastructure around this area and how it's going to affect my (and other Normanites) way around town on a daily basis. I live in North Norman and so this project is going to obviously affect me and others who live here whether we like it or not. I certainly do not want to see Norman traffic become just as awful (or worse) than what we now see in Edmond.

if this was a new building in an empty field at the proposed location it would still be 100x better then staying at the LNC

You will most likely find out if that is actually true because a new building in an empty field at the proposed location is the most likely outcome.

You will most likely find out if that is actually true because a new building in an empty field at the proposed location is the most likely outcome.

Based on what other than your high hopes this will all somehow fail?

i mean i feel that softball, baseball, and men's and womens gymnastics deserve to be ahead of basketball.

I mean softball is getting a new stadium, baseball field is going to be redone for the new SEC rules and gymnastics will also use this arena (I'd guess).

My #1 concern is going to be the transportation infrastructure around this area and how it's going to affect my (and other Normanites) way around town on a daily basis. I live in North Norman and so this project is going to obviously affect me and others who live here whether we like it or not. I certainly do not want to see Norman traffic become just as awful (or worse) than what we now see in Edmond.

Agree with you but that is even more reason for it to go in this development. Additional infrastructure is needed regardless of where this will be built. Improvements to Robinson, Rock Creek and Tecumseh will all be needed and the service road needs to be extended from South of Cavenders to Tecumseh.

Based on what other than your high hopes this will all somehow fail?

Based on the fact that the closest restaurant to the proposed location as of this moment of time is a Chuck E. Cheese.

Based on the fact that the closest restaurant to the proposed location as of this moment of time is a Chuck E. Cheese.

There is a $1B development planned all around the arena by the same people who have already built out all of UTC.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate all this won't be built.

I'm very sure OU won't sign a long-term lease without at least the entertainment part being substantially complete.

Agree with you but that is even more reason for it to go in this development. Additional infrastructure is needed regardless of where this will be built. Improvements to Robinson, Rock Creek and Tecumseh will all be needed and the service road needs to be extended from South of Cavenders to Tecumseh.

I would hope that this will be the impetus for Norman to extend 24th Ave NW out to Flood instead of having it dead-end at Tecumseh.

It would also be ideal to add an exit onto the east side service road from NB I-35 to the south of the Rock Creek underpass, and an entrance onto NB I-35 from the east side service road to the north of the Rock Creek underpass. Doing anything with the west side service road is going to be just about impossible given the current configuration, but I think adding a half interchange to the east side service road is doable.

There is a $1B development planned all around the arena by the same people who have already built out all of UTC.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate all this won't be built.

I'm very sure OU won't sign a long-term lease without at least the entertainment part being substantially complete.

I trust your analysis of this situation, so I hope you are correct about a majority of the entertainment district being complete before the arena gets going. Because my main concern is that as of right now, there isn't much to differentiate UTC from the 19th Street corridor in Moore, other than the fact that Norman has been smart enough not to grant every single business ingress/egress directly onto 24th Ave NW. This could all end up being great, but given how much of a disappointment the existing UTC development has been thus far, I'm going to need to see it to believe it.

Apologies for the Chuck E. Cheese joke, that was a cheap one, but I did have to get it in because the fact that it's currently true is very amusing to me.

My #1 concern is going to be the transportation infrastructure around this area and how it's going to affect my (and other Normanites) way around town on a daily basis. I live in North Norman and so this project is going to obviously affect me and others who live here whether we like it or not. I certainly do not want to see Norman traffic become just as awful (or worse) than what we now see in Edmond.

It shouldn't affect traffic too much if the naysayers are correct because it won't be successful anyways... ::end sarcasm::

I'm sure the arena and entertainment district are needed to complement each other.

There is absolutely nothing, anywhere, that even hints that the arena would be built without the entertainment amenities.

And there is no way anyone truly believes that OU, their regents, the university president and arguably the best athletic director in the country hasn't thought all this through. It's all a bunch of wild speculation fueled by agenda-driven negativity.

Based on what other than your high hopes this will all somehow fail?

Based on what has previously been promised by the developers of UTC vs what has actually been delivered.

Based on the fact that the closest restaurant to the proposed location as of this moment of time is a Chuck E. Cheese.

1) Who wouldn't want to have a slice of rat pizza at a child casino before or after the game?

2) Come on now. OU has made dumb development decisions at times (especially in the later Boren years) but do you really believe that they would make the decision to move the basketball facility to a completely different part of their campus and a little farther away from the main campus without doing their due diligence on the viability of what's being proposed over the last 5+ years? The biggest complaints about LNC have been access, location and nearby entertainment options, with entertainment options being the highest on the list. Why do you think they would agree to do something of this magnitude without some major assurances that the area around the arena will be developed to serve the number one complaint about the current arena location?

Based on what has previously been promised by the developers of UTC vs what has actually been delivered.

Oh, BS.

They've built over 20 restaurants and hundreds of thousands of SF of retail space, and have tons more planned. Also 4 hotels, a big athletic complex, apartments, senior living, a bunch of office space, a whole new section just started construction... This proposed development is literally 1/10th of what has already been built.

There is zero to indicate they can't add another handful of restaurants and stores, which is what the entertainment district will be.

I'm sure the arena and entertainment district are needed to complement each other.

There is absolutely nothing, anywhere, that even hints that the arena would be built without the entertainment amenities.

And there is no way anyone truly believes that OU, their regents, the university president and arguably the best athletic director in the country hasn't thought all this through. It's all a bunch of wild speculation fueled by agenda-driven negativity.

Best point you could make on this. No way the athletic department makes a decision of this magnitude with everything that's riding on it, without having done their due diligence and gotten the necessary assurances from developers/the city.

But, but...

What if OU has a big master plan just to crater and stick taxpayers with all their debt?

What if there is a plague of locusts that descend on North Norman?

What if a ton of really smart people with the university's best interest at heart are really dumber than a bunch of fans from another school who have no idea what they are talking about and keep making false statements to prove it?

These are basically the arguments being presented.


It's valid to discuss concerns about moving the games a fair distance from the main campus and it's valid to worry about ingress and egress but the rest of this is just wishful thinking by people who want to see OU fail so they can feel better about their own miserable situation.

Oh, BS.

They've built over 20 restaurants and hundreds of thousands of SF of retail space, and have tons more planned. Also 4 hotels, a big athletic complex, apartments, senior living, a bunch of office space, a whole new section just started construction... This proposed development is literally 1/10th of what has already been built.

There is zero to indicate they can't add another handful of restaurants and stores, which is what the entertainment district will be.

They've built out a bunch of junk pad sites for big box retail and parking lots. It was promised to be a mixed use destination that would attract people from DFW and Kansas City. They ended up building a couple of strip malls and chain restaurant pad sites.

I'm sure the HomeGoods there is top notch, but I doubt its drawing people from Kansas City.

They've built out a bunch of junk pad sites for big box retail and parking lots. It was promised to be a mixed use destination that would attract people from DFW and Kansas City. They ended up building a couple of strip malls and chain restaurant pad sites.

I'm sure the HomeGoods there is top notch, but I doubt its drawing people from Kansas City.

Actually, the only thing that changed was the lifestyle center that never materialized after the entire retail landscape changed and then we were hit with a pandemic. And in its place is a proposed movie theater and much more.

You don't know or care about any of this, just keep desperately trying to find a way to crap on this project.

Agree with you but that is even more reason for it to go in this development. Additional infrastructure is needed regardless of where this will be built. Improvements to Robinson, Rock Creek and Tecumseh will all be needed and the service road needs to be extended from South of Cavenders to Tecumseh.

Agreed. I've thought quite a bit about this. There will need to be on/off ramps installed at the Rock Creek overpass. They are going to have to widen, add additional turn lanes, etc. in the Tecumseh/Flood/24th Ave. NW/I-35 area because it's a nightmare traffic problem as it stands now with all of the growth in North Norman. Extending 24th Ave. NW from where it currently ends at Tecumseh up to the North a couple of blocks to intersect at Flood will have to happen as well so those exiting Southbound I-35 on Flood have a direct route into the district without having to turn right on Tecumseh and then Left at 24th.

To your point JDRoss, officials are going to have to negotiate with Southwestern Wire to secure at the very least, right-of-way for a service/frontage road extension of Interstate Drive (on the East side of I-35) from the Subaru dealership northward to Tecumseh. For the right price, they might be able to buy them out completely and have them relocate elsewhere as this property is huge and a major eyesore. And speaking of frontage roads, they are going to have to make Interstate Drive One-way on each side of I-35. That's going to be unfortunate for some of us who like the current setup, but it is what it is.

And while they're at it, ODOT better figure out a plan quick to propose a railroad underpass for Tecumseh (US-77) just East of Flood. Hopefully the City can work with ODOT to make this happen.

They've built out a bunch of junk pad sites for big box retail and parking lots. It was promised to be a mixed use destination that would attract people from DFW and Kansas City. They ended up building a couple of strip malls and chain restaurant pad sites.

I'm sure the HomeGoods there is top notch, but I doubt its drawing people from Kansas City.

lol, what? Who ever said it would be a destination that attracted people from DFW or Kansas City? At most it was billed as being similar to developments in those cities. Admittedly developers have fallen short on the lifestyle center...though this development seems like it would finally add that component.

I think you're confusing this with Steve's infamous development that would "make dallas and kansas city jealous."

But, but...

What if OU has a big master plan just to crater and stick taxpayers with all their debt?

What if there is a plague of locusts that descend on North Norman?

What if a ton of really smart people with the university's best interest at heart are really dumber than a bunch of fans from another school who have no idea what they are talking about and keep making false statements to prove it?

These are basically the arguments being presented.


It's valid to discuss concerns about moving the games a fair distance from the main campus and it's valid to worry about ingress and egress but the rest of this is just wishful thinking by people who want to see OU fail so they can feel better about their own miserable situation.

You forgot about OU banishing fans to a children's rat casino for pre and post game entertainment. Heard they have a hell of a house band though. (sorry, had to lol)

lol, what? Who ever said it would be a destination that attracted people from DFW or Kansas City? At most it was billed as being similar to developments in those cities.

I think you're confusing this with Steve's infamous development that would "make dallas and kansas city jealous."

You are correct!

lol, what? Who ever said it would be a destination that attracted people from DFW or Kansas City? At most it was billed as being similar to developments in those cities. Admittedly developers have fallen short on the lifestyle center...though this development seems like it would finally add that component.

I think you're confusing this with Steve's infamous development that would "make dallas and kansas city jealous."

Yeah, I think that had more to do with the CO-OP site, potential soccer stadium, hotel, apartments, etc.

Agreed. I've thought quite a bit about this. There will need to be on/off ramps installed at the Rock Creek overpass. They are going to have to widen, add additional turn lanes, etc. in the Tecumseh/Flood/24th Ave. NW/I-35 area because it's a nightmare traffic problem as it stands now with all of the growth in North Norman. Extending 24th Ave. NW from where it currently ends at Tecumseh up to the North a couple of blocks to intersect at Flood will have to happen as well so those exiting Southbound I-35 on Flood have a direct route into the district without having to turn right on Tecumseh and then Left at 24th.

To your point JDRoss, officials are going to have to negotiate with Southwestern Wire to secure at the very least, right-of-way for a service/frontage road extension of Interstate Drive (on the East side of I-35) from the Subaru dealership northward to Tecumseh. For the right price, they might be able to buy them out completely and have them relocate elsewhere as this property is huge and a major eyesore. And speaking of frontage roads, they are going to have to make Interstate Drive One-way on each side of I-35. That's going to be unfortunate for some of us who like the current setup, but it is what it is.

And while they're at it, ODOT better figure out a plan quick to propose a railroad underpass for Tecumseh (US-77) just East of Flood. Hopefully the City can work with ODOT to make this happen.

This is something that should be done anyway, just to avoid it turning into another absurd traffic nightmare like Moore. The starting point should be to get rid of the 1960's two-way access roads!

lol, what? Who ever said it would be a destination that attracted people from DFW or Kansas City? At most it was billed as being similar to developments in those cities. Admittedly developers have fallen short on the lifestyle center...though this development seems like it would finally add that component.

I think you're confusing this with Steve's infamous development that would "make dallas and kansas city jealous."

The developer did when originally asking for TIF money.

The developer did when originally asking for TIF money.

Link?

This is from Placer, a commercial real estate database.

UNP has more visits than any other shopping center in Central Oklahoma and probably the entire state. And they are now under construction on a big new expansion not to mention this additional $1B in improvements.

BTW, this same group developed Town Center Plaza in Midwest City which is very high on this list, right there with Penn Square.


Anyone trying to portray this development as losing money or not being able to deliver on expansion is completely delusional.

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