Like literally every arena in the world? Even this new one for OU to play in will be the same.

not true at all ..

Financial windfall is not true - UTC has cost the university a ton of money too. They MIGHT be revenue neutral on UTC. They have all sorts of messy real estate financing entanglements around UTC and other developments.

OU has a TON of debt for a public institution and this just flies in the face of everything university management has been saying they'd do.

I do not buy that the university isn't going to financially support this somehow. My guess is they will provide a lot of the equity via the foundation to the surrounding development to help offset the cost of the arena development. That is extremely risky. UTC isn't anything more than a glorified strip mall and always seems that OU and Norman officials want to think it's Classen Curve or Penn Square. It's not and will never be. OU's cash flow is already nearly 50% to debt payments - very high for a public university and they have a mediocre to bad credit rating for a public entity. If they keep spending like this they are going to get further debt downgrades and State of Oklahoma is eventually going to have to bail them out. Seems like that is OU's admins goals. Too big to fail essentially so lets spend and build anything we want because SEC, SEC, SEC and then let taxpayers bail out the university later when they can't make debt service payments anymore.

Add this into the Campus Corner BS and all their dorm/living public private partnership lawsuits, etc. and good grief OU is a mess.

An off campus basketball arena for a school that already could not care for any sport but football (with minor care for softball) is a stupid idea. It should at least be somewhat walk able from campus or you'll never get any students there unless they give tickets away for free. Under 10,000 seats and it will serve no purpose for concerts or other live events that could help float the facility revenue wise.

I can't think of a successful arena model in a suburban area like this that has ever created a vibrant and economically sustainable surrounding development. Most cities have a difficult time doing it in downtowns with more viable arenas. Look at Victory Park in Dallas, the retail/office in front of the arena is awful. The rest of the neighborhood is pretty decent now but that took two decades. Power and Light in KC nearly bankrupted the city. You're talking about building out a 'mixed-use' entertainment district with surrounding strip malls and not a more vibrant walk-able urban neighborhood and that retail is going to not be successful. If this had been proposed for Downtown Norman or somewhere closer to campus this would probably be a good thing but at UTC and likely more shady OU real estate financing deals, this will be a billon dollar disaster that taxpayers will look forward to bailing out.

Dude. Did you watch your game on Saturday? Don't yall have enough to deal with between being in the middle of nowhere and struggling to compete in football in what's about to be a second tier conference? The Pokes might not win a conference game this season if Gunnar Gundy is the best QB on the roster. It's a little nuts/obsessive that you're hate typing paragraphs about OU's supposed debt problem that only OSU and Texas fans seem to think is a real issue.

The major difference being the Galen Center is directly across the street from USC's campus.

I guess it's a good thing that this is technically on OU's campus. It's the North Campus..but campus nonetheless.

8,000 seats is more than enough. Build it and pack people in for a change. Attendance is down across all sports, especially college basketball. In the few instances that might require a larger one...there's an 18k seat arena in OKC.

I was thinking smaller like 7,000 with the right layout. I was talking to my mom about OU's new softball stadium and she was surprised it wasn't larger than 3,000. I asked her what happens on off seasons when we aren't as good, the stadium looks empty. I would rather have a stadium (arena) packed that's smaller than a larger arena that can seem empty.

As I can see from this thread and others on social media this will have an uphill battle to be completed. City Council members in Norman are going to be sweating.

No. You are seeing a non-resident of Norman and an OSU fan raise strawman points to try to be a contrarian. This wouldn't have been announce so publicly after thr debacle of 2017 unless the finer points have been pretty much agreed to.

HA! Yeah, OSU with Gallagher-Iba Arena is really jealous of this proposed arena development. How will the "have nots" ever compete with OU in basketball.... Quick, someone call KU and the other have nots and tell them the news hot off the press in Norman.

Gallagher-Iba is really cool or was before it was expanded. Now it's just half empty all the time.

No. You are seeing a non-resident of Norman and an OSU fan raise strawman points to try to be a contrarian. This wouldn't have been announce so publicly after thr debacle of 2017 unless the finer points have been pretty much agreed to.

I live in Norman. Just from groups for my ward on social media and nextdoor people are skeptical again. Obviously we don't have final numbers or any long term projections on anything yet so I am a wait and see type person.

I live in Norman. Just from groups for my ward on social media and nextdoor people are skeptical again. Obviously we don't have final numbers or any long term projections on anything yet so I am a wait and see type person.

The only vote that may be involved would be if public revenue bonds are to be used, but that just requires a simple majority and they almost always pass.

TIF is never put to a public vote, it's up to the City Council and/or the County.

The only vote that may be involved would be if public revenue bonds are to be used, but that just requires a simple majority and they almost always pass.

TIF is never put to a public vote, it's up to the City Council and/or the County.

Yes I am sure you keep up with some of the Norman "politics" and the city council. People get up in a roar and send out recalls when something doesn't go their way. I could see that happening if the vote is remotely close. If it is all yes votes on the city council then it is a done deal for sure.

Sounds closer to a done deal to me but again nothing has been formally brought up to the council as far as I am aware (and could be wrong on that!)

^

No, nothing has been formalized as yet.

But it shouldn't be much longer and that's why they had this press release today.

OU couldn't raise money for one on campus but there's a mile long list of donors to build one at UTC with "private dollars"... got it. OU will not be helping at all.

because it's not just an arena... they are investing in something that couldn't be built on campus, they are investing in the full project. this isn't difficult to understand, but you sure are trying everything you can to make it where you don't listen.

I live in Norman. Just from groups for my ward on social media and nextdoor people are skeptical again. Obviously we don't have final numbers or any long term projections on anything yet so I am a wait and see type person.

I know. But on this forum, the person raising the most cane about it has Poke us his name, signifying his bias, and ignorance any the true financial state of affairs at OU.

So, I'm guessing that Urbanist Poke is an OSU grad who lives in Tulsa? Same guy who said that the Olympics being in OKC was no big deal? If so... why are we spending so much time talking to him about this?

If they wanted to do it right and they're buying up Campus Corner too - do it there. .

who is they? these are all separate investment groups and plans, that are not related. and i know this will be hard for you to believe, but OU isn't involved in the Campus Corner project either.

Dude. Did you watch your game on Saturday? Don't yall have enough to deal with between being in the middle of nowhere and struggling to compete in football in what's about to be a second tier conference? The Pokes might not win a conference game this season if Gunnar Gundy is the best QB on the roster. It's a little nuts/obsessive that you're hate typing paragraphs about OU's supposed debt problem that only OSU and Texas fans seem to think is a real issue.

Only a slightly unhinged reply haha. I don't think you understand OSU alumni and where did I say anything about football? If OSU proposed an idea like this I would frankly be even more harsh, as would most OSU people. OU fans, especially non alumni, have a really difficult time with reality.

Only a slightly unhinged reply haha. I don't think you understand OSU alumni and where did I say anything about football? If OSU proposed an idea like this I would frankly be even more harsh, as would most OSU people. OU fans, especially non alumni, have a really difficult time with reality.

Ah, the old 'didn't-go-to-school-there' trope.

The entire list of OSU Greatest Hits is now complete.

He is just "poke-ing" us into squabbling with someone that is not going to benefit from said project. Do I like the idea of an arena off campus- meh, but if it is better than LNC then yes. The last time I saw the LNC packed was for a Norman North High School graduation before Covid. Something needs to be done. The renderings, while not final, show a top flight facility and look great imo.

Do you not realize that UT was able to build their entire 300 mil arena with all private funds from an outside group (Oak View Group) which keeps all the revenue from non UT events for the first 35 years of existence (Opened 2022). UT owns the land (same as OU).

The dorm lawsuit, you really need to read more as your understanding of things OU is exactly what your name insinuates.

Do you realize that what Texas did was actually a great model that OU should try to copy? No? What exactly is your point.

The arena they built is also within walking distance to campus and was built to accommodate music/concerts, etc. They also built it to a size that is realistic to get concerts.

Want to know a reason why arenas under 10,000 seats have a hard time financially? There are pretty limited traveling tours that play in venues of that size where they have to bring their own stage, equipment, etc. That's why they play in PAC's, Casinos, etc. where there's a stage and A/V etc. The costs don't make sense to have an independent tour and only go to venues under 10,000 seats that not are purpose built for music, theater, etc.

OU needs and could support an arena. Doing it at UTC and thinking OU isn't going to be supporting this in some way is just make believe. There are plenty of examples on how to do something like this right and this proposal isn't it. It will ultimately either stick OU with the costs or shift a massive burden on to Norman residents and the city. Either of those are bad. People need to take a breath and think about this a bit more and how crazy this idea really is that's being proposed. Good luck to OU lol.

Ah, the old 'didn't-go-to-school-there' trope.

The entire list of OSU Greatest Hits is now complete.

i finally just decided it wasn't worth it and added to ignore list. lol

We might as well end the discussion. The Poke knows all, and is omniscient, and is able to move goal posts, so we don't stand a chance.

I noticed the FAQ mentions there is no proposed timeline for this project. Since the Campus Corner "leveling" project is also pending in the background, to me it makes sense that these projects could coordinate. So I don't understand why the campus corner area isn't considered for the arena location. Especially with $800MM in private investment is planned (which is for profit sharing from the entertainment district). Isn't that exactly what the new campus corner is supposed to be? Bars, restaurants, hotels, housing. LNC is 3k more capacity than this proposed arena, it could fit somewhere in CC no problem.

Seems like a missed opportunity to do some really cool urban integration for campus corner with the arena as an anchor piece.

Ah, the old 'didn't-go-to-school-there' trope.

The entire list of OSU Greatest Hits is now complete.

Again, it's not wrong.

It was an unhinged post, where did I mention football at all or the fact that our football program couldn't use a new coach, etc. I'm not exactly thrilled with our football program.

I noticed the FAQ mentions there is no proposed timeline for this project. Since the Campus Corner "leveling" project is also pending in the background, to me it makes sense that these projects could coordinate. So I don't understand why the campus corner area isn't considered for the arena location. Especially with $800MM in private investment is planned (which is for profit sharing from the entertainment district). Isn't that exactly what the new campus corner is supposed to be? Bars, restaurants, hotels, housing. LNC is 3k more capacity than this proposed arena, it could fit somewhere in CC no problem.

Seems like a missed opportunity to do some really cool urban integration for campus corner with the arena as an anchor piece.

because we have two different project groups that have their own ideas of what to do with each. might it be a missed oppotunity, sure, but the group who has been buying up Campus Corner, has their own plan and what they are best at producing. the group with the arena, have different plans for what they want to do. you can't force two different groups of developers to just work together.

We might as well end the discussion. The Poke knows all, and is omniscient, and is able to move goal posts, so we don't stand a chance.

The amount of pearl clutching by OU fans here is comical. Good luck with all your debt, university certainly doesn't have any issues with it at all. You will have the #1 basketball program soon, don't worry.

I have not moved the goal posts at all and no one has proved anything I've brought up wrong either. Maybe you all know better than Fitch and other credit rating agencies. Just start your own maybe? Lol

Just poking holes into a dumb proposal. OU fans should expect better, because they could have better. I know, I'm just horrible for saying it and thinking it.

Again, it's not wrong.

Not that it matters, but it is completely wrong in reference to most the people you are arguing with here.

I noticed the FAQ mentions there is no proposed timeline for this project. Since the Campus Corner "leveling" project is also pending in the background, to me it makes sense that these projects could coordinate. So I don't understand why the campus corner area isn't considered for the arena location. Especially with $800MM in private investment is planned (which is for profit sharing from the entertainment district). Isn't that exactly what the new campus corner is supposed to be? Bars, restaurants, hotels, housing. LNC is 3k more capacity than this proposed arena, it could fit somewhere in CC no problem.

Seems like a missed opportunity to do some really cool urban integration for campus corner with the arena as an anchor piece.

The arena would take up all of CC. There would be minimal mixed-use space available. Plus, I doubt the houses nearby would want an arena there (likely would have more pushback from citizens than this proposed location).

The arena would take up all of CC. There would be minimal mixed-use space available. Plus, I doubt the houses nearby would want an arena there (likely would have more pushback from citizens than this proposed location).

You could easily fit an arena north of Rickos Tacos if you clear out some of those older buildings to the north and utilized the parking lots up to Apache. Over 60% of that is parking already and an arena with a parking structure and ground floor retail (look how the Verizon Center was built in DC as a good example) could easily go there.

Another option slightly further north would be the parking lot south of First Baptist.

Or even the parking lot south of Noun along University. That is plenty big enough for an arena to go on and would be 1,000 X better for OU and could be done in a similar private-public partnership. Building out a mixed-use 'urban center' would be 1,000 x more viable there than in a suburban wasteland like UTC.

i finally just decided it wasn't worth it and added to ignore list. lol

Agreed. Getting dangerously close to OKVision4U territory...

Agreed. Getting dangerously close to OKVision4U territory...

LOL - Sooner fans... if a few critiques on a dumb proposal hurts your feelings that much put me on ignore now. Just bury your head in the sand that OU can't do better and doesn't deserve better of a new arena proposal than some dumb faux entertainment strip mall in UTC when they could do something way better around Campus Corner or elsewhere. Especially if the university is acquiring land and planning a redevelopment of Campus Corner this is just a massive, massive miss. Only endless sunshine pumpers allowed on OKCTalk, I forget.

The arena would take up all of CC. There would be minimal mixed-use space available. Plus, I doubt the houses nearby would want an arena there (likely would have more pushback from citizens than this proposed location).

I just used Google to measure square footage of all of [the main part] of campus corner (minus NOUN hotel and Boyd House for obvious reasons). The total land sq ft is over 500K.

Using the same thing, I took the square footage of the current LNC (Which is 3K more capacity than this proposed arena) and the total land sq ft is under 190K.

Obviously you will need parking for the arena, but the entire campus corner area needs structured parking anyways. To me, it doesn't seem like such a crazy idea.

^

OU is not acquiring land in or around Campus Corner.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

I noticed the FAQ mentions there is no proposed timeline for this project. Since the Campus Corner "leveling" project is also pending in the background, to me it makes sense that these projects could coordinate. So I don't understand why the campus corner area isn't considered for the arena location. Especially with $800MM in private investment is planned (which is for profit sharing from the entertainment district). Isn't that exactly what the new campus corner is supposed to be? Bars, restaurants, hotels, housing. LNC is 3k more capacity than this proposed arena, it could fit somewhere in CC no problem.

Seems like a missed opportunity to do some really cool urban integration for campus corner with the arena as an anchor piece.

The CC project and UNP/this arena + project would take all of the property from Boyd to W Duffy and S University to RR tracks. While that would be awesome, it would require every single one of the property owners to sell which most likely would require eminent domain to get the deal done. So yes, an investment of somewhere in the ballpark of 1.5 billion in this area would be great but far cry from reality.

LOL - Sooner fans... if a few critiques on a dumb proposal hurts your feelings that much put me on ignore now. Just bury your head in the sand that OU can't do better and doesn't deserve better of a new arena proposal than some dumb faux entertainment strip mall in UTC when they could do something way better around Campus Corner or elsewhere. Especially if the university is acquiring land and planning a redevelopment of Campus Corner this is just a massive, massive miss. Only endless sunshine pumpers allowed on OKCTalk, I forget.

OU ISN'T ACQURING ANY LAND OR INVESTING A SINGLE PENNY IN UNP OR IN CC. An investor is 80% fronting the UNP development with 20% coming from the community and once again NOT OU. OU is not investing a single penny in CC either. Just because you "think" OU is fronting it doesn't mean they are. OU has other needs they are looking at which includes more than both of these investments combined to address the needs of the University. Get your head out of the sand or more likely a sheep's rear and end your bias to all things OU. Good bye pokie

I have not moved the goal posts at all and no one has proved anything I've brought up wrong either. Maybe you all know better than Fitch and other credit rating agencies. Just start your own maybe?

I think what people are trying to point out to you is that you either misunderstand the developments you are talking about or you are misrepresenting them for some reason. There are a few examples of this, but the most obvious one is that you keep bringing up the school's credit rating in context of a proposal that doesn't use the school's credit. You used your crystal ball to weave a narrative where it will come into play to justify the connections, but it's irrelevant at least as far how the proposal has been presented.

^

OU is not acquiring land in or around Campus Corner.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Ok, so the campus corner redevelopment everyone on OKCTalk seems to think is happening (including you) is just a bunch of smoke and made up? Ok that's cool then I guess...

What I don't understand is the opinion that this needs to be on campus. Yea, it would be great but there are plenty of examples where off-campus arenas have thrived. UofL has an arena miles and miles away from campus and they're constantly number one in attendance with a team that hasn't made the tourney in a few years. I know we're not the Cards and can't expect to fill over 12,000 seats when the team isn't performing well, but I see very few flaws in this proposal. That's just my opinion.

Ok, so the campus corner redevelopment everyone on OKCTalk seems to think is happening (including you) is just a bunch of smoke and made up? Ok that's cool then I guess...

No, it's being done by private developers.

I don't know why you are having such a hard time with this concept.

I think what people are trying to point out to you is that you either misunderstand the developments you are talking about or you are misrepresenting them for some reason. There are a few examples of this, but the most obvious one is that you keep bringing up the school's credit rating in context of a proposal that doesn't use the school's credit. You used your crystal ball to weave a narrative where it will come into play to justify the connections, but it's irrelevant at least as far how the proposal has been presented.

If this isn't clear than I understand that, and I see your point. You're literally the only one that is saying something reasonable in saying I don't get why you're saying this in connection to this.

The credit rating takes into it a lot of factors including endowment investments, debts, etc. I don't believe that OU isn't going to be in this proposal somehow (that's my opinion at this point). Even if it's an equity investment into the surrounding retail/mixed-use development and is only a lease with the city for the arena they are still going to be involved somehow. If it goes bad that will impact OU's credit rating even more if their endowment is not collecting as much revenue off investment. OU's endowment has made some really bad real estate investments in the past too. That's part of what has gotten OU into some of it's debt problems. UTC was a contributing factor to that as well. To act like it's been revenue positive for OU isn't true, just look at the financial details behind it all. I feel like this is why OU leadership is pushing this given they want to spark more development in this area and they think an arena will help. It's not. They'd be better off trying to build a Norman version of Wheeler District here (my opinion) and build an area within walking distance to campus and do a public-private partnership there and forget about an arena at UTC in a suburban wasteland. There isn't a good example of an arena built in a suburban environment like UTC that has ever created a sustainable, profitable surrounding mixed-use development. In downtown areas, sure, but even those took a lot of public subsidies. I don't get how people here think this is going to magically get paid for. A developer/private group isn't going to pay for the arena and surrounding development without help somehow.

Sorry if this was already answered - lots going on here...but who exactly is putting in the $800 million of private money, and has that actually been raised? That is a massive private investment (and as I understand it, is not coming from the OU Foundation).

The CC project and UNP/this arena + project would take all of the property from Boyd to W Duffy and S University to RR tracks. While that would be awesome, it would require every single one of the property owners to sell which most likely would require eminent domain to get the deal done. So yes, an investment of somewhere in the ballpark of 1.5 billion in this area would be great but far cry from reality.

Think how sick it would be to have Boyd lined with housing, bars, restaurants. All the way from University to Monnett. Then have the arena and hotels and parking just north in the existing main CC footprint. It would probably be north of 2.5 billion in investment. It is definitely a pipe dream, but seeing these two groups work together would sure be something.

^

OU sold most of the land at UNP for pure profit and still owns most the property north of Rock Creek.


Okay, I'm done now. It's been established you aren't worth debating.

Only a slightly unhinged reply haha. I don't think you understand OSU alumni and where did I say anything about football? If OSU proposed an idea like this I would frankly be even more harsh, as would most OSU people. OU fans, especially non alumni, have a really difficult time with reality.

LOL. I've never understood why some people think having a fanbase made up only of students and alumni is such a flex. Translation...your school has never been good enough a sport, that anyone actually cares about, to gain a fanbase outside of those who went to school there.

Yes, it really sucks to have a bunch of non alumni fans that sell out the stadium every weekend, donate to the school/athletic department, help expand the brand and send their children there.

Sorry if this was already answered - lots going on here...but who exactly is putting in the $800 million of private money, and has that actually been raised? That is a massive private investment (and as I understand it, is not coming from the OU Foundation).

If you think about who would have this kind of money and is connected to OU it is pretty easy to figure out. I'd be willing to bet several of us know.

No, it's being done by private developers.

I don't know why you are having such a hard time with this concept.

I'm not having a hard time, you just need to re-read what I said in a day or two. I'm being objective and apparently someone can't do that if they aren't a Sooner fan. It's funny everyone including you are so upset by it - do you not want people to have a different opinion than you on your board? If not, happy to leave. I find this all comical how hurt everyone's feeling are by me saying OU can do better (so horrible of me!!!) and it's a dumb financial move for them even if the only thing it costs them is lease payments to play sports there. It's dumb to have an arena so far away from campus where they could benefit more from having it incorporated into a public-private partnership. Why do you think I think only OU could do the campus corner redevelopment? I have literally never said that - you all are just really amped up that some one dares to say an idea is stupid. Questioning the university leadership would be helpful for OU because not questioning them for so many decades got them into a lot of trouble. Even for as many great things as Boren did and others, the debt issues at OU are real whether you all want to realize it or not.

If you think about who would have this kind of money and is connected to OU it is pretty easy to figure out. I'd be willing to bet several of us know.

Well apparently everyone thinks it's coming from magic beans in the ground and an arena will just sprout out in five years when it blooms.

If there's a private individual that can donate that much or several - it shouldn't be built in UTC.

What everyone seems to be claiming when that's brought up is that the arena will be paid for by the surrounding development and income from the retail, apartments, etc. So a private developer will build the arena out of the kindness of their hearts and foregoing profit on surrounding development to make sure that happens according to many here. No help from OU at all, just a small $20-30 million help from City of Norman, County, etc.

If you think about who would have this kind of money and is connected to OU it is pretty easy to figure out. I'd be willing to bet several of us know.

Ha, I was thinking some of them may be spending a big chunk of money on an arena 20 miles to the north. The UT arrangement as I understand it is pretty interesting. National group associated with Live Nation gets rights/revenue from concerts and non-UT sports events -- basically built an awesome arena music venue in a town that didn't have one before. Just didn't know if it was some national group that is not really OU/Oklahoma based. And while the Chickasaws have some decent-sized venues, they don't have an arena for concerts etc.

I'm not having a hard time, you just need to re-read what I said in a day or two. I'm being objective and apparently someone can't do that if they aren't a Sooner fan. It's funny everyone including you are so upset by it - do you not want people to have a different opinion than you on your board? If not, happy to leave. I find this all comical how hurt everyone's feeling are by me saying OU can do better (so horrible of me!!!) and it's a dumb financial move for them even if the only thing it costs them is lease payments to play sports there. It's dumb to have an arena so far away from campus where they could benefit more from having it incorporated into a public-private partnership. Why do you think I think only OU could do the campus corner redevelopment? I have literally never said that - you all are just really amped up that some one dares to say an idea is stupid. Questioning the university leadership would be helpful for OU because not questioning them for so many decades got them into a lot of trouble. Even for as many great things as Boren did and others, the debt issues at OU are real whether you all want to realize it or not.

Private developers acquiring private property on campus corner want to build a mixed use entertainment district and DON'T want to put an arena in it. OU does NOT own the land and does NOT control what happens there.

Private developers AND THE CITY want to build a mixed use entertainment district at university north park WITH an arena in it. OU DOES own the land and DOES control of what happens there.

It's also 10-15 minutes closer to where the majority of people who go to OU basketball games live and is still technically on campus.

LOL. I've never understood why some people think having a fanbase made up only of students and alumni is such a flex. Translation...your school has never been good enough a sport, that anyone actually cares about, to gain a fanbase outside of those who went to school there.

Yes, it really sucks to have a bunch of non alumni fans that sell out the stadium every weekend, donate to the school/athletic department, help expand the brand and send their children there.

LOL - OSU has plenty of non alumni fans too and they are just not only fans of OSU when they win like a big portion of the non-alumni OU fans and they are not football only fans like a huge portion of non-alumni OU fans. Our football program has sucked the majority of it's existence. You all didn't sell out your stadium prior to Stoops very often... so congrats. That HUGE non alumni fan base supported you all really well then and will in the future if you all ever start losing regularly which is bound to happen as every program has cycles (yes even OU, Bama, etc.)

I do find it hilarious that you want to discuss football/OU in a proposal about OU's possible new basketball arena... the irony is not lost on any non OU lover. You do realize there's other sports at OU right? Like, basketball for example.. the point of this specific thread topics right? How many basketball sellouts does that huge OU fan base account for in the last several decades at OU - haha.

I'm not having a hard time, you just need to re-read what I said in a day or two. I'm being objective and apparently someone can't do that if they aren't a Sooner fan. It's funny everyone including you are so upset by it - do you not want people to have a different opinion than you on your board? If not, happy to leave. I find this all comical how hurt everyone's feeling are by me saying OU can do better (so horrible of me!!!) and it's a dumb financial move for them even if the only thing it costs them is lease payments to play sports there. It's dumb to have an arena so far away from campus where they could benefit more from having it incorporated into a public-private partnership. Why do you think I think only OU could do the campus corner redevelopment? I have literally never said that - you all are just really amped up that some one dares to say an idea is stupid. Questioning the university leadership would be helpful for OU because not questioning them for so many decades got them into a lot of trouble. Even for as many great things as Boren did and others, the debt issues at OU are real whether you all want to realize it or not.

In context of campus corner, you have stated that the university is making acquisitions and is a part of the redevelopment efforts. That doesn't seem to be the case.

In general, you are overstating the University's role in these developments, especially financially, in your criticisms.

I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of OU's credit rating or endowment portfolio, but if those issues hinder the building of a new basketball facility, then it just sounds like they came up with a solution to that. You can use your imagination to weave those issues into these developments, but honestly, that's where the rivalry bias is showing.

I'm being objective and apparently someone can't do that if they aren't a Sooner fan.

except you aren't being objective. the objective facts are that OU isn't the one making these land acquisitions, or putting this money forward. it is private developers who have gotten private investors to support their plans. Especially with CC, OU literally has nothing to do with it, at all. that is the objective facts.

you are not being objective, you are subjectively changing changing reality to make it fit your narrative that you want to talk about. just because you say you are objective, does not mean you are.

Well apparently everyone thinks it's coming from magic beans in the ground and an arena will just sprout out in five years when it blooms.

If there's a private individual that can donate that much or several - it shouldn't be built in UTC.

What everyone seems to be claiming when that's brought up is that the arena will be paid for by the surrounding development and income from the retail, apartments, etc. So a private developer will build the arena out of the kindness of their hearts and foregoing profit on surrounding development to make sure that happens according to many here. No help from OU at all, just a small $20-30 million help from City of Norman, County, etc.

now you are just admitting that you don't know how real-estate developments work.

LOL - OSU has plenty of non alumni fans too and they are just not only fans of OSU when they win like a big portion of the non-alumni OU fans. You all didn't sell out your stadium prior to Stoops very often... so congrats. That HUGE non alumni fan base supported you all really well then and will in the future if you all ever start losing regularly which is bound to happen as every program has cycles (yes even OU, Bama, etc.)

I do find it hilarious that you want to discuss football/OU in a proposal about OU's possible new basketball arena... the irony is not lost on any non OU lover. You do realize there's other sports at OU right? Like, basketball for example.. the point of this specific thread topics right?

Yes, OU had trouble selling out the stadium for one 3-5 year period from 1945-2023.

Yep we have other sports. You know why we talk about football? Because it pays for all those other sports with a bunch left over and basketball, the second highest revenue generating sport, can't generate enough revenue or donations to fund its own arena. OU's football program is the reason it's going to the SEC and the reason it's athletic department is about to make substantially more revenue than any of the Big 12 teams do...a number that will continue increasing while the revenue share per team in the Big 12 will decrease.

now you are just admitting that you don't know how real-estate developments work.

You got me. I'll be declaring bankruptcy tomorrow just for you - I don't know how to do the thing I've done for decades. Enlighten me oh great one of how this is being paid for again?

You got me. I'll be declaring bankruptcy tomorrow just for you - I don't know how to do the thing I've done for decades. Enlighten me oh great one of how this is being paid for again?

Private, non-OU funds for 80% of it. Not sure how you are missing that. And 20% public funding (TIF or bonds).

Not sure where your disconnect is.

Yes, OU had trouble selling out the stadium for one 3-5 year period from 1945-2023.

Yep we have other sports. You know why we talk about football? Because it pays for all those other sports with a bunch left over and basketball, the second highest revenue generating sport, can't generate enough revenue or donations to fund its own arena. OU's football program is the reason it's going to the SEC and the reason it's athletic department is about to make substantially more revenue than any of the Big 12 teams do...a number that will continue increasing while the revenue share per team in the Big 12 will decrease.

Then why even have the other programs? Why have someone else build an arena for OU basketball? I don't get what you're even arguing.

Congrats, you uncovered the secret that everyone knows... football makes the most money. I'm glad you taught me that today. No clue that was the reason OU is going to the SEC. That's awesome, all makes sense to me now - thank you.

Can we go back to the topic of what this is about, because it's not OU football or football at all.

Private, non-OU funds for 80% of it. Not sure how you are missing that. And 20% public funding (TIF or bonds).

Not sure where your disconnect is.

No way... really? It's being paid for exactly by what I've been saying and everyone is... had no idea.

So that 80% in private dollars... that's just coming from magic though right? Or MAYBE it could be coming from the surrounding real estate development revenue... possibly (the main claim everyone is saying why it can ONLY be built at UTC). Mystery to me how you could come up with 80% of the funds privately and it not be a donor or donors willing to put up the cash - that if it was the case those same donors could also pay say 80% of it for an on campus arena, no?

No way... really? It's being paid for exactly by what I've been saying and everyone is... had no idea.

So that 80% in private dollars... that's just coming from magic though right? Or MAYBE it could be coming from the surrounding real estate development revenue... possibly (the main claim everyone is saying why it can ONLY be built at UTC). Mystery to me how you could come up with 80% of the funds privately and it not be a donor or donors willing to put up the cash - that if it was the case those same donors could also pay say 80% of it for an on campus arena, no?

They could, yes. But OU doesn't want to. So they are funding this development instead. Like Pete said, there are numerous reasons an on-campus arena won't work. OU looked at multiple different sites. Most on-campus ones would fit a 7-8k arena. But OU wants bigger, since they are planning on having concerts and other events there. Who knows. But I think OU is wanting one thing and has donors lined up who will support OU either way.

Yes, OU had trouble selling out the stadium for one 3-5 year period from 1945-2023.

Yep we have other sports. You know why we talk about football? Because it pays for all those other sports with a bunch left over and basketball, the second highest revenue generating sport, can't generate enough revenue or donations to fund its own arena. OU's football program is the reason it's going to the SEC and the reason it's athletic department is about to make substantially more revenue than any of the Big 12 teams do...a number that will continue increasing while the revenue share per team in the Big 12 will decrease.

think about this every home game attendance in OU history since 1957 is larger then the BPS record attendance ..

that if it was the case those same donors could also pay say 80% of it for an on campus arena, no?

this is not donor money ..

They could, yes. But OU doesn't want to. So they are funding this development instead. Like Pete said, there are numerous reasons an on-campus arena won't work. OU looked at multiple different sites. Most on-campus ones would fit a 7-8k arena. But OU wants bigger, since they are planning on having concerts and other events there. Who knows. But I think OU is wanting one thing and has donors lined up who will support OU either way.

This is not what everyone else has said nor Pete. The claim is a donor or donors support for an on-campus arena doesn't exist. The only options to build one at all is at UTC where they can leverage income from surrounding development to pay for it. Supposedly it would be paid for by "private" $$$ - well if donor support isn't there for an on-campus arena there isn't magically going to be ones for it at UTC. If there is donor support for an arena, building it at UTC is even dumber of an idea. OU has plenty of land to build a mixed-use development on. Even on the parking lots of the arena now or even a bit north. Not having available land on the OU campus is not an issue.

Again, if you want concerts it's going to have to be more than 10,000 seats. Not what they are proposing.