I saw where OKC gave an incentive of 7 million plus to attract the outlet mall. Norman would never offer any incentive money...the council would argue about natural development and that everyone should be treated fairly, the little guy would get cheated, and that they could not afford it! This incentive money is small change in comparison to the return OKC will get from it.
The incentive was for tax credits so they could use it for advertising, like over a 5 or 10 year period.

I was suspicious of the project from the beginning. Rarely do directions to Louis Vuitton stores begin with "make a right at the Dress Barn and keep going until you see TJ Maxx"

Check out St. Johns Town Center. To get to Louis Vuitton you can enter by PetsMart, pass by Dress Barn, turn right at Target, turn right again at Dollar Tree, left at the ATT store, go around the traffic circle, and Louis Vuitton is just ahead on your right.

http://www.simon.com/mall/FloorPlan.aspx?id=857

Can we just take that and copy it for UNP?

It is disturbing that even in Moore they are talking about a lifestyle center there now and we can get this stupid one built. Rosenthal seems to be sleeping.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.448916462240.236534.165812997240&type=1

Can we just take that and copy it for UNP?

St Johns Town Center has it is own screw-ups as well. They have condos on site but they put a pond in-between it and the shopping which require people living on site to have to drive a 1/2 mile to go to a store that is 100 feet from their front door.

That is pretty stupid. I'm all for water features...but work in a couple artsy/scenic bridges (walking and vehicle) to allow for easy connections and promote a neighborhood type setting.

went to ulta with the family this morning and i noticed that the rock creek bridge is now open.. So is there going to be anything new being built or announced for the unp area?

It's been open several weeks now. The once planned office complex for that northern end of UNP seems to be, at best, in a coma. The once planned, allegedly anyway, lifestyle center for the eastern part of UNP seems to be, at best, a long forgotten pipe dream. Seems the current thinking is that nobody is building lifestyle centers anymore and they feel they missed out but are hopeful something else will work out.

Not the city's best laid plans all in all. But as my bank moved there from Main I'll likely go over to that area more now. Hadn't been much to date to make it worth the bother.

It would be good if they could at least finish the lake that was supposed to go in south of Academy. The new bridge looks nice.

Another hotel and a Crest Foods are planned, but the developer is dragging his feet on turning over the land....

http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x858781/TIF-again-under-scrutiny

It's interesting that the developer wants to alter pedestrian friendly areas to allow for more parking. Is that area so busy that no one can find a place to park?

Followup on the Oct. 4 study session:

Norman city council members tonight ordered City Attorney Jeff Bryant to let University North Park developers know there would be no further negotiations until land for Legacy Park has been dedicated to the city as promised. “The developer is not negotiating with the city in good faith,” Council Member Hal Ezzell said. “The developer is playing games.”
No members of the University Town Center development team were at the study session meeting. The Transcript spoke to Stanton Nelson, a Norman resident and member of the development team, by phone following the meeting.
“It’s more complicated than just the delivery of giving the land,” Nelson said. “From my perspective, I want to see the park developed. I believe it will be a benefit to the city. We want to see it happen. We want to see an agreement made. The partnership is more than willing to donate the land in order to make this a reality, but it’s more complicated than that.”

Full article is at
http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x858988/Norman-city-council-wants-park-dedication

What I don't get is that the park was part of the plan agreed to at the beginning...so why is it more complicated now to just get that part done?

Just screams of a developer that has/had no intention of following through on anything they agreed to and continue to develop a big box haven.

I am sure the developer has breached his agreement. The land is owned by the city right?

5 Guys is going in the same area (under construction) as Zio's, should open early fall.

Driving by their site on my way elsewhere yesterday, they have Now Hiring signs hanging outside their entry. Apparently they are still on track for opening soon.

The theater is out and a cluster of hotels and a grocery store are in, reported University North Park Developer Bob Stearns of Sooner Investments. (emphasis added)



Stearns and architect Frank Goppold reported to city council members on the changing vision for the TIF District development on 24th Avenue Northwest. Discussion revolved around plans for a town center, a concept which replaces plans for a lifestyle center originally proposed for the project. (emphasis added)





“We’re excited about this cluster of hotels to anchor the village center,” Goppold said. He described the “streetscape” of the proposed village center as reminiscent of a boulevard in Paris with a wide median containing a double row of trees. ...


Rest is at:
http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1511839928/Vision-clearer-for-TIF

Read that in the paper this morning...looks like the buyout amount Hollywood wanted for the theater was insane. Which stinks because that place is a dump and they haven't done much to it for years. So a negative for Norman since tax dollars are going to Moore anyway and it likely won't stop. I guess the best hope for a new theater would be a tornado, fire, or Hollywood going bankrupt. LOL

Here is the development they are wanting to model the town center section after: http://www.birkdalevillage.net/

Which if we get something that looks like that, I'm perfectly good with.

http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Birkdale+Village+in+Huntersville,+N.C&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Birkdale+Village&hnear=0x88541e15e2989709:0x15a48906c2995b01,Hunter sville,+NC&cid=0,0,10332610668986526502&ei=-5CfTo7RJqPpsQLyguGWBQ&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CAUQ_BI

It still has a lifestyle center feel to it, based on the ones I've been to. The store front/street parking that stores want can work like they have there. It is basically a typical downtown/uptown area with parallel parking in front of the stores with the main parking lots set off behind the stores. So I'm not entirely upset at all using Birkdale Village as a model.

At the end of the day though, if they follow through with that they are going to cause a lot of competition with General Growth's Sooner Mall. If they were smart, I would be talking with GGP about some joint working in developing UNP - moving stores over - and then redevelop Sooner Mall's area as a business park.

http://newsok.com/department-store-anchors-are-sought-for-norman-retail-district/article/3614972?custom_click=lead_story_title

Here is the development they are wanting to model the town center section after: http://www.birkdalevillage.net/

Which if we get something that looks like that, I'm perfectly good with.

That development is okay, but it isn't great. It does offer the chance to park once and walk from store to store, but no one is going to walk to the shopping center except for those that live on-site. Now if they built 10 of those side by side they might have something.

That development is okay, but it isn't great. It does offer the chance to park once and walk from store to store, but no one is going to walk to the shopping center except for those that live on-site. Now if they built 10 of those side by side they might have something.

I doubt it will be like Birkdale Village, Frank Goppold's work in centered around a more suburban, not urban feel, http://goppoldarchitecture.com/. He said it will be have a "village" feel, and as high as two stories on each side.

See: http://goppoldarchitecture.com/project-03.html#

Nonetheless, its a good addition to the area, and that its finally moving forward.

You know G.Walker, I am amazed at how developers try to portray the image of traditional neighborhood development with the project names they select and how they market the project, but then build auto-dependent suburban style projects. Is there any larger an oxymoron than calling something a Town Center when 90% of the land is dedicated to parking and the only jobs are retail and hospitality. What a joke.

Norman should have focused all this effort on downtown Norman where they didn't need to build all the infrastructre, had existing businesses ready to move in, and lots of people near by who could get there without having to drive a car. With the money saved they could have put in a starter streetcar system. Opportunity missed.

See: http://goppoldarchitecture.com/project-03.html#

Interesting to note that other pictures are under the "on the boards" link, as well as upcoming projects in OKC and Edmond called Valencia Center and Bridges at Spring Creek, respectively.

I doubt it will be like Birkdale Village, Frank Goppold's work in centered around a more suburban, not urban feel, http://goppoldarchitecture.com/. He said it will be have a "village" feel, and as high as two stories on each side.

Eh, just going off of what he actually told the committee based on the Transcript article. Of course if he actually follows through is a totally different thing.

Norman should have focused all this effort on downtown Norman where they didn't need to build all the infrastructre, had existing businesses ready to move in, and lots of people near by who could get there without having to drive a car. With the money saved they could have put in a starter streetcar system. Opportunity missed.

The UNP "town center" appears to be mostly national chains some of which may relocate from Sooner Mall. It wpn't be a high end shopping center, and has been majorly scaled back from what was originally proposed. Still potential for an even better development in downtown Norman/Campus Corner with high end national anchors and lots of local stores which is better anyway. Main from Flood to University is absolutely ripe for such a mixed-use development.

5 guys is now open

The UNP "town center" appears to be mostly national chains some of which may relocate from Sooner Mall. It wpn't be a high end shopping center, and has been majorly scaled back from what was originally proposed. Still potential for an even better development in downtown Norman/Campus Corner with high end national anchors and lots of local stores which is better anyway. Main from Flood to University is absolutely ripe for such a mixed-use development.

BG, just curious but do you realistically think high end retailers will come to downtown/CC? If so what are the incentives?

I would love to see that happen but I just can't see it. Call me a pessimist.

BG, just curious but do you realistically think high end retailers will come to downtown/CC? If so what are the incentives?

I would love to see that happen but I just can't see it. Call me a pessimist.

Campus Corner absolutely. There are already several higher end boutiques there and would be a destination. Mix a few chains like Banana Republic and Pottery Barn with local places. Add a small movie theater, boutique hotel and loft apartments. Along University Blvd is the perfect place for such development.

Downtown is better for local but not necessarily higher end stores. As Campus Corner continues to revitalize it won't be as local as it once was (already happening) and downtown will benefit as it will primarily be local stores and restaurants.

Now just need to find a developer, with money, who actually sees it the same way. Unfortunately they don't exist yet.

Does anybody know what is going in the lot being cleared by target?

also is the new grocery store ever going to open?

Does anybody know what is going in the lot being cleared by target?

also is the new grocery store ever going to open?

Should be announced soon that Crest Foods and Cheesecake Factory will start construction in spring.

The land being cleared near the Target is for Mathis Brothers' Mattress Store.

Also, where is the Crest Food store going in the UNP? I have not heard anything about Cheesecake Factory. What is your source and where would it be going in the UNP?

Should be announced soon that Crest Foods and Cheesecake Factory will start construction in spring.

Along with the SE Norman Walmart, I hope you are right about this. No source?

A mattress store there with all those restaurants seems terrible. Another place to eat would seem to make alot more sense but i guess they are taking what they can get. I sure wish they would bring that Discount Tire store back.

A mattress store there with all those restaurants seems terrible. Another place to eat would seem to make alot more sense but i guess they are taking what they can get. I sure wish they would bring that Discount Tire store back.

???? People who buy matresses don't eat?

Along with the SE Norman Walmart, I hope you are right about this. No source?

The source works at City Hall, can't provide name for obvious reasons.

The land being cleared near the Target is for Mathis Brothers' Mattress Store.

Also, where is the Crest Food store going in the UNP? I have not heard anything about Cheesecake Factory. What is your source and where would it be going in the UNP?

Not sure about location at UNP for Cheesecake Factory, but Crest is planned for the N. end of UNP, closer to Tecumseh.

Should be announced soon that Crest Foods and Cheesecake Factory will start construction in spring.

I have heard about Crest being built near Target, I was also told or its rumored that Cabelas will be built there on UNP as well. But I will always wonder how Dollar Tree is high end retail?

I feel this whole UNP is a failure and a waste of moeny or least tax dollars by having it as a TIF, since us the employees are being told that we won't hire anymore, still have merit freezes, residents have to feel the crunch as well, but will still keep giving millions to bring in supposed high end retail for UNP.

I don't see acadamy being very happy with a cabelas going there.

I don't see acadamy being very happy with a cabelas going there.

LOL I don't either, I have told alot of outdoor guys and hunters, and they thrilled to know that a Cabelas will be brought into Norman, since Bass Pro is expensive, I would also like to think that Acadamy will have to lower prices to compete with Cabelas on some of there outdoor stuff.

I myself would love to see a Cabelas since I haven't been able to see one to see what kind of merchandise they carry compared to Bass Pro.

LOL I don't either, I have told alot of outdoor guys and hunters, and they thrilled to know that a Cabelas will be brought into Norman, since Bass Pro is expensive, I would also like to think that Acadamy will have to lower prices to compete with Cabelas on some of there outdoor stuff.

I myself would love to see a Cabelas since I haven't been able to see one to see what kind of merchandise they carry compared to Bass Pro.

You definitely need to price check, Bass Pro and Cabelas are almost identical in pricing.

I really like the look of Cabelas a lot more than Bass Pro. However like RC said, they are almost identical in pricing. Though Cabelas would be a very good draw for Norman, especially from the Southern half of the state who would stop there instead of going to Bricktown.

I have heard about Crest being built near Target, I was also told or its rumored that Cabelas will be built there on UNP as well. But I will always wonder how Dollar Tree is high end retail?

I feel this whole UNP is a failure and a waste of moeny or least tax dollars by having it as a TIF, since us the employees are being told that we won't hire anymore, still have merit freezes, residents have to feel the crunch as well, but will still keep giving millions to bring in supposed high end retail for UNP.

UNP was NEVER planned to be 100% "high end retail"

Is/are there an/any accurate, accessible master site plan/s for UNP that show/s announced projects?

UNP was NEVER planned to be 100% "high end retail"

Many forget that. You need some of the lower end retail to get the foot traffic there. If they went 100% upscale, you wouldn't get enough people. This is one of the reasons why it is also key to hold the developers in developing the lifestyle center. The village shopping environment and combining it with loft apartments and offices would do wonders.

I don't see acadamy being very happy with a cabelas going there.

That would be a really strange move but it wouldn't surprise me. These are the same folks who built a Panda Express literally in Pei Wei's parking lot after all.

That would be a really strange move but it wouldn't surprise me. These are the same folks who built a Panda Express literally in Pei Wei's parking lot after all.

Um, if you are saying that panda express and pei wei are interchangeable, then you have some pretty bad taste buds... They are for totally different markets and occasions. It would be the equivalent of saying that the Long John Silvers in front of the Pearl's was redundant. lol

There will be two mattress stores right near each other also, Mathis brothers and the one in strip with Zios/five guys etc.

... This is one of the reasons why it is also key to hold the developers in developing the lifestyle center. ...

Isn't that already a done dead and buried idea?

It is definately dead! "they aren't building lifestyle centers anymore"- developer, about a year after his idea to build lifestyle center. haha!

The most recent news suggests that they plan to build a "town center" or "village center" instead of a "lifestyle center" . . . still too early to judge this whole project . . .

http://normantranscript.com/government-beat/x1511839928/Vision-clearer-for-TIF

The most recent news suggests that they plan to build a "town center" or "village center" instead of a "lifestyle center" . . . still too early to judge this whole project . . .

http://normantranscript.com/government-beat/x1511839928/Vision-clearer-for-TIF

Go back to page 4 and we actually discussed that. I personally don't see any difference from lifestyle center to town/village center. Just a different name to call it.

I agree, it's old news, but some folks either don't keep up or just want to focus on the negative.

I also agree that if they keep the landscaping and design up to standards, this can still be a great addition. I was never convinced that it had to have a pedestrian-only promenade to be nice. I have seen plenty of nice town centers that are not pedestrian-only, and I would be fine with that.

There are some things I like about UNP (SuperTarget, Pei Wei, Zio's) and some things I don't (Dollar Tree, $1 Jewelry Galore), but it's too early to make a final judgment.

I’m glad to hear about a rumored Norman Cabelas.
I have ordered high quality extreme cold weather gear from their catalog before.

Is there anything more known about how realistic this is and when and where?
Thanks

http://www.kansas.com/2011/02/16/1722771/council-to-weigh-cabelas-fee.html

http://www.kansas.com/2011/03/08/1752829/wichita-council-approves-incentive.html

http://www.kansas.com/2011/08/12/1970781/cials-kick-off-cabelas.html

Um, if you are saying that panda express and pei wei are interchangeable, then you have some pretty bad taste buds... They are for totally different markets and occasions. It would be the equivalent of saying that the Long John Silvers in front of the Pearl's was redundant. lol

I don't know why you have to put me down. I wasn't making a judgement call on their food at all... I was saying I would imagine one company that has been established in UNP for some time wouldn't be too happy to see their competitor, be it Cabella's or Panda, located so closely to them. In case you are curious go look up stock ticker PFCB, the parent company of Pei Wei. Go to a site like Yahoo Finance and look through their legal filings... they flat-out state that they view Panda Express as one of their primary competitors. Go to a site like WikiInvest and you'll find mention of Panda eating away at Pei Wei and PF Chang's market share. Do a search for those business names in USA Today and you will find several articles citing the down economy and the trend of consumers to migrate away from Pei Wei and PF Chang's and towards Panda Express. Regardless of taste buds, there is a very real trend going on with the finance side of the house and those guys are direct competitors. So all I am saying is that it seems pretty bad to me that UNP would put the two so close together, and if the rumors in this thread are right would do it again with Academy and Cabela's. If I am the owner or manager of a store the last thing I want to do at night is walk out the front door and see a company that corporate views as the primary competitor 20 feet away in the parking lot. If I'm a potential tenant of UNP and I see that as a trend I probably would rather look someplace else in the metro to locate myself in. You may disagree that they're in different categories because of taste, but the money people don't see it that way. That's all I'm saying.

I don't know why you have to put me down. I wasn't making a judgement call on their food at all... I was saying I would imagine one company that has been established in UNP for some time wouldn't be too happy to see their competitor, be it Cabella's or Panda, located so closely to them. In case you are curious go look up stock ticker PFCB, the parent company of Pei Wei. Go to a site like Yahoo Finance and look through their legal filings... they flat-out state that they view Panda Express as one of their primary competitors. Go to a site like WikiInvest and you'll find mention of Panda eating away at Pei Wei and PF Chang's market share. Do a search for those business names in USA Today and you will find several articles citing the down economy and the trend of consumers to migrate away from Pei Wei and PF Chang's and towards Panda Express. Regardless of taste buds, there is a very real trend going on with the finance side of the house and those guys are direct competitors. So all I am saying is that it seems pretty bad to me that UNP would put the two so close together, and if the rumors in this thread are right would do it again with Academy and Cabela's. If I am the owner or manager of a store the last thing I want to do at night is walk out the front door and see a company that corporate views as the primary competitor 20 feet away in the parking lot. If I'm a potential tenant of UNP and I see that as a trend I probably would rather look someplace else in the metro to locate myself in. You may disagree that they're in different categories because of taste, but the money people don't see it that way. That's all I'm saying.

Wasn't saying anything about you personally, just being a smarta**. lol. I understand your point, but I was just saying that I wouldn't ever consider those two direct competitors. Apparently my tastes are different than the masses.

While driving by UNP yesterday, I noticed two new construction sites have broke ground. Both are on the east side of 24th, north of the Five Guys and Zio's locations. One of the sites had a sign out front showing the building, but it looked more like a small office development than retail. The other site was just scraped clean with the blue stormwater barriers up around it. Good to see some more development here.

One will be another bank (cant remember which one)...also, a four story Holiday Inn Express and suites will be going in on the E. side of 24th (not sure when that will get started).

Holiday Inn basically owns the Oklahoma City area hotel market.

Holiday Inn basically owns the Oklahoma City area hotel market.

Actually, the various brands under the Marriott umbrella have a much larger share of the market.

Actually, the various brands under the Marriott umbrella have a much larger share of the market.

That's true. I guess Holiday Inn's are just a little more obvious to the eye for me than Marriott's are. I'm still waiting for a Drury Inn to enter into the OKC market.