We can't expect anything to change in the form of development in Norman anytime soon. The average Normanite doesn't 1) care about design 2) isn't even aware about "good" or acceptable design/form.

Link to back that up?

We can't expect anything to change in the form of development in Norman anytime soon. The average Normanite doesn't 1) care about design 2) isn't even aware about "good" or acceptable design/form.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Norman leadership and developers just have a small town mentality, and yes so do many of the citizens. Though Norman is no longer a small town it still has the overall mentality of an suburb and not its own city. I do think that will eventually change and we'll see Norman as more than just OU and neighborhoods full of either OU students/faculty or commuters to OKC. The discourse created during the Lindsey St design process was proof that there are changes happening in Norman, though the outcome of that discourse and the constant delays associated with higher density residential projects in Campus Corner indicate that there is still plenty of work to do..

Definitely agree BG. Change is happening, but it will probably take a generation to flush out the old thinking for the new.

Notice how the 10 pictures on the front page of the "Town Center" website are all of the parking lot, or taken in the parking lot. Failure on soooo many levels, but at least it doesn't include a Walmart (yet).Big blue walmart box, no. Big red target box, yes.
six of one, half dozen of the other on a few levels.

Sorry - that was a poke at the Choctaw Town Center - which is built around a Walmart.

What do you expect, its Choctaw?

I'm know I'm going to get crap for saying this, but I think the place is fine. I walked just fine through it and it had many nice stores. Was there the other weekend and no problems with it. I have no idea what it was sold as and I can understand if they sold it as what G.Walker said and then did this, how that would be maddening, but I have no personal issues with it.

This design is acceptable to me as long as it is maintained and is not located in in urban core, I don't see the problem with. The problem with most it seems like is a few people get mad when it is not pushed right up against the street, but then again, it sounds like to me that something completely different was sold to the people with this development so I can understand the frustration. I could see something like this being good for I-240.

There are a few things that I don't like, though I don't really feel like going into detail, I can if someone wants me to though and yes, it could use a little better walkability.

I'm know I'm going to get crap for saying this, but I think the place is fine. I walked just fine through it and it had many nice stores. Was there the other weekend and no problems with it. I have no idea what it was sold as and I can understand if they sold it as what G.Walker said and then did this, how that would be maddening, but I have no personal issues with it.

This design is acceptable to me as long as it is maintained and is not located in in urban core, I don't see the problem with. The problem with most it seems like is a few people get mad when it is not pushed right up against the street, but then again, it sounds like to me that something completely different was sold to the people with this development so I can understand the frustration. I could see something like this being good for I-240.

There are a few things that I don't like, though I don't really feel like going into detail, I can if someone wants me to though and yes, it could use a little better walkability.

The frustrating thing about it is that people apparently don't understand what they were sold in the first place. So far, this is what was advertised. The part that is yet to be determined is the "Town Center" that was supposed to go in south of the Embassy Suites. It's not entirely clear what that will turn out to be now, and yes, it will probably be different from what was promised (in part, because of the economy). Thus far, though, this development is pretty much what they said it would be. The Target, Academy, etc. was all intended to drive traffic for the Town Center that would eventually be located on the other side of the street.

University North Park is still one of the better shopping centers in the metro area. I understand it was scaled down from what was originally promised, but at least it isn't Belle Isle. Hopefully one day OKC will get a true town center style development.

Wasn't sure if we should break this out into another thread or not, but for now will keep it here.

Proposed Corporate Center in TIF would have industrial complex » Headlines » The Norman Transcript (http://www.normantranscript.com/headlines/x1636698284/Proposed-Corporate-Center-in-TIF-would-have-industrial-complex)

The Corporate Center will be a business park and industrial complex on the TIF's north end and comprise of 60 acres. The NEDC had purched the original 30 acres and is now buying another 31.67 acres this week.

City Council will consider spending $6.2 million for infrastructure improvements (utilities and such). NEDC apparently has one tenant already secured and will close the deal in a few weeks.

Legacy Park will be done by August. The Lifestyle Center agreement requires the developer to have 250,000 sq ft of business to it by 2018.

Wasn't sure if we should break this out into another thread or not, but for now will keep it here.

Proposed Corporate Center in TIF would have industrial complex » Headlines » The Norman Transcript (http://www.normantranscript.com/headlines/x1636698284/Proposed-Corporate-Center-in-TIF-would-have-industrial-complex)

The Corporate Center will be a business park and industrial complex on the TIF's north end and comprise of 60 acres. The NEDC had purched the original 30 acres and is now buying another 31.67 acres this week.

City Council will consider spending $6.2 million for infrastructure improvements (utilities and such). NEDC apparently has one tenant already secured and will close the deal in a few weeks.

Legacy Park will be done by August. The Lifestyle Center agreement requires the developer to have 250,000 sq ft of business to it by 2018.

They write a similar article like this every year, and nothing happens....

From 2008: UNP Corporate Centre to be 'world-class' » Commerce » The Norman Transcript (http://www.normantranscript.com/commerce/x519006745/UNP-Corporate-Centre-to-be-world-class)

From 2010: Norman City Council to consider resolutions to entice companies into University North Park | News OK (http://newsok.com/norman-city-council-to-consider-resolutions-to-entice-companies-into-university-north-park/article/3494553)

From 2012: Projects at Norman's University North Park extend beyond retail | News OK (http://newsok.com/projects-at-normans-university-north-park-extend-beyond-retail/article/3713339)

From 2013: Center expected to boost economy » Headlines » The Norman Transcript (http://www.normantranscript.com/headlines/x730433527/Center-expected-to-boost-economy)

catch my drift?

Oh I know. We've seen the story many times with Don Wood is telling us some great employer is coming in there. Like that one aviation company that was suppose to move in there, but some how vanished.

Notice how the 10 pictures on the front page of the "Town Center" website are all of the parking lot, or taken in the parking lot. Failure on soooo many levels, but at least it doesn't include a Walmart (yet).

Screw professional photographer. I gotta camera phone. Let's make usselves a website.

Whatever happened to that advanced manufacturing company that was set to be announced? Do we even know who it was and where they ended up choosing? What about the aviation company venture referenced? Anything on that?

Probably not even really existed. Just a ghost to make it sound like this is progressing.

Screw professional photographer. I gotta camera phone. Let's make usselves a website.

It isn't the photographer with the problem, it is his subject that isn't photogenic. If you are photographing the Sandra Bernhard of shopping centers it doesn't matter who is taking the picture.

Whatever happened to that advanced manufacturing company that was set to be announced? Do we even know who it was and where they ended up choosing? What about the aviation company venture referenced? Anything on that?

Don Wood I think posts on this site, maybe he can come clean and fess up to what is actually going on out there. If they don't announce this new company by the end of the year, the guy will just lose what little credibility he has left in my eyes. If the deal isn't done, stay quiet and don't even hint at anything.

It appears a new hotel is being built just south of the Embassy. Currently framed out in metal rafters, it is about 4 stories high. Seems odd there is enough demand for more hotel space, but perhaps it is an apartment? Does anybody know?

Whatever happened to that advanced manufacturing company that was set to be announced? Do we even know who it was and where they ended up choosing? What about the aviation company venture referenced? Anything on that?

Is that what bid this afternoon (the infrastructure improvements at least)? The title of the project was vague, something like UNP Corporate Center and Manufacturing

I'm pretty sure it is the Holiday Inn Express that was announced several months back. I believe there are one or two additional hotel projects for UNP to help cover the demand from the convention center.

I'm pretty sure it is the Holiday Inn Express that was announced several months back. I believe there are one or two additional hotel projects for UNP to help cover the demand from the convention center.

I believe you are correct and the lot to the east of this will be a Residence Inn.

I can't give out to much information right now but a big box appliance store and a western wear store may be going in north of Kohl's. I'm not at liberty to name any names at this time and it's all preliminary right now and could change.

I'm pretty sure it is the Holiday Inn Express that was announced several months back. I believe there are one or two additional hotel projects for UNP to help cover the demand from the convention center.

You believe correctly.

The best part about UNP? The intersections are decorated with brick that forms the shape of a roundabout. I get a good chuckle everytime I go through this area.

The best part about UNP? The intersections are decorated with brick that forms the shape of a roundabout. I get a good chuckle everytime I go through this area.

Fake it 'til you make it.

Has anyone tried to get onto I-35 Northbound from Robinson? Whoever designed that little on-off ramp from Robinson to 35 right behind target at UNP was surely intoxicated at the time.

Not a fan. Whether going to OKC or coming from, if I am driving, I prefer to use 77/Flood. In part because old habits die hard and in part because even with several improvements over the years, none were designed/constructed by starving zombies.

Has anyone tried to get onto I-35 Northbound from Robinson? Whoever designed that little on-off ramp from Robinson to 35 right behind target at UNP was surely intoxicated at the time.

I do a few times every month, never had any problems!

Has anyone tried to get onto I-35 Northbound from Robinson? Whoever designed that little on-off ramp from Robinson to 35 right behind target at UNP was surely intoxicated at the time.

This entrance to I-35 is fine, I drive it almost daily. Pretty petty complaint...

Same here, I've never had a problem with it.

I don't think it is terrible...but it isn't all that fun for those turning left onto Interstate Drive next to the tire place and realize they have only one option - I-35 north. It's not terrible though, but takes some getting use to.

This entrance to I-35 is fine, I drive it almost daily. Pretty petty complaint...

I drive it daily too and never have problems. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been done in a way that doesn't launch you on to the high way. They need a longer merge area, most cars seem to not get up to speed in the short amount of time they have to merge.

First of all, nobody merges in Oklahoma. They just slow down and sometimes stop at the end of the entrance. If boggles my mind on why Oklahomans do that and the rest of our nation do not.

First of all, nobody merges in Oklahoma. They just slow down and sometimes stop at the end of the entrance. If boggles my mind on why Oklahomans do that and the rest of our nation do not.

This isn't the thread for it, but I fully agree. I just avoid the "merging" lane altogether unless I'm entering or exiting the motorway.

This isn't the thread for it, but I fully agree. I just avoid the "merging" lane altogether unless I'm entering or exiting the motorway.
Looks like you 2 are just looking for something else to "hammer" Oklahomans about. I merge successfully all the time and see most "Oklahomans" merging with little or no problem.

This isn't the thread for it, but I fully agree. I just avoid the "merging" lane altogether unless I'm entering or exiting the motorway.

Motorway? Did I click on the 1940s internet? I don't think I've heard anyone in this century call it that.

Looks like you 2 are just looking for something else to "hammer" Oklahomans about. I merge successfully all the time and see most "Oklahomans" merging with little or no problem.

I merge successfully, but it comes with its difficulties at times. There are often people -- they exist everywhere, but it is fairly common in OKC -- that slow down when they are merging or go very slow on the entrance ramp & cannot merge due to them still going 10-20 mph under the speed limit. This goes with what I was just talking about, but it is also somewhat common (everywhere, honestly) when the other lanes are empty but someone stays in the merging lane & causes someone to have to slow down because they cannot get on the motorway (freeway / interstate) faster than the person already on it.

Disclaimer (since it is apparently needed) - I am not trying to bash the fine people of Oklahoma; I am, however, just stating my own personal experiences that may or may not be experienced by others.

I was not looking for anything to hammer Okies about -- I actually find it somewhat comical, maybe borderline silly, that such rhetorics of paranoia are applied every time someone does not state the highest honors for the people of *insert any state or country* -- , I just find it rather annoying to deal with people trying to merge that slow down -- despite them having no yield sign (the treatment of yield signs can be its own topic) -- when you slow down to allow them on.

Motorway? Did I click on the 1940s internet? I don't think I've heard anyone in this century call it that.

No, you clicked on an English -- as in the UK (United Kingdom, not University of Kentucky) -- term. :tongue:

I merge successfully, but it comes with its difficulties at times. There are often people -- they exist everywhere, but it is fairly common in OKC -- that slow down when they are merging or go very slow on the entrance ramp & cannot merge due to them still going 10-20 mph under the speed limit. This goes with what I was just talking about, but it is also somewhat common (everywhere, honestly) when the other lanes are empty but someone stays in the merging lane & causes someone to have to slow down because they cannot get on the motorway (freeway / interstate) faster than the person already on it.

Disclaimer (since it is apparently needed) - I am not trying to bash the fine people of Oklahoma; I am, however, just stating my own personal experiences that may or may not be experienced by others.

I was not looking for anything to hammer Okies about -- I actually find it somewhat comical, maybe borderline silly, that such rhetorics of paranoia are applied every time someone does not state the highest honors for the people of *insert any state or country* -- , I just find it rather annoying to deal with people trying to merge that slow down -- despite them having no yield sign (the treatment of yield signs can be its own topic) -- when you slow down to allow them on.

I'm originally from Jersey, and I noticed the exact same thing -- even people stopping while attempting to merge. I see this with some regularity on major entrance ramps onto highways. Boggles my mind.

I'm originally from Jersey, and I noticed the exact same thing -- even people stopping while attempting to merge. I see this with some regularity on major entrance ramps onto highways. Boggles my mind.

I have seen that as well. Thankfully, I'm on the interstate cruising by & not behind them stopped as well.

I'm originally from Jersey, and I noticed the exact same thing -- even people stopping while attempting to merge. I see this with some regularity on major entrance ramps onto highways. Boggles my mind.

That's because in Jersey people merge at top end speeds, yield signs be damned! I'll take any drivers over those in the NE any day.

6223

Presenting the UNP Ramp to Nowhere in front of Crest.

dude who cares, just enjoy life a little bit and stop worrying about small things man. I went to UNP the other day and it was just fine. I liked it and walked about just fine.

dude who cares, just enjoy life a little bit and stop worrying about small things man. I went to UNP the other day and it was just fine. I liked it and walked about just fine.

I took it as just a sarcastic / ironic / "tongue in cheek" kind of thing. It actually made me snicker a little.

I took it as just a sarcastic / ironic / "tongue in cheek" kind of thing. It actually made me snicker a little.

bingo.

It's just a funny sight to see, that's all. Relax.

That is the problem. There are yield signs everywhere on entrances even with plenty of merge room, so many Oaklahomans end up "yielding" as in stopping on the freeway while others pass them going 60 MPH. What are they suppose to do then? The opportunity to merge is gone and people then treat it like a stop sign or right turn lane into a freeway and sit still for an opening. I find it very dangerous to just stop at the end of the entrance. I find myself having to slam on my brakes behind someone as I enter the highway instead of speeding up like the rest of the country. Many Oklahomans must think I am crazy for thinking that it's strange. I have not observed this elsewhere in the United States. Culture shock I guess. I don't mean to insult Oklahomans. Anyways, either way I find the entrance and exit at UNP nice. Much easier to get to Target and Crest going northbound on 35.

I've driven in several states and have encountered many idiot drivers everywhere. It's not unique to Oklahoma.

What I hate is when people feel like they have to drive all the way to the end of the merge lane before they get over. What I do when merging is look over and see where there's a space. Then I hop over into that space even if I have a lot of room left before the merge lane ends. When merging, you try for the zipper effect so that no one has to slow down. But what I get is people thinking "Oh, the merge lane ends. Time for me to get over." Yet, there I am and I can't get over to give them space because there's a car next to me and the idiot merging doesn't understand that two objects can't occupy the same space. The merge lane doesn't tell you when to get over, the traffic pattern does.

6223

Presenting the UNP Ramp to Nowhere in front of Crest.

At least it is ADA compliant.

I've driven in several states and have encountered many idiot drivers everywhere. It's not unique to Oklahoma.

What I hate is when people feel like they have to drive all the way to the end of the merge lane before they get over. What I do when merging is look over and see where there's a space. Then I hop over into that space even if I have a lot of room left before the merge lane ends. When merging, you try for the zipper effect so that no one has to slow down. But what I get is people thinking "Oh, the merge lane ends. Time for me to get over." Yet, there I am and I can't get over to give them space because there's a car next to me and the idiot merging doesn't understand that two objects can't occupy the same space. The merge lane doesn't tell you when to get over, the traffic pattern does.
Bingo. This is NOT unique to Oklahoma. Does NOT happen any more here than any other place. Those of you saying it does, are full of c**p and just looking for a reason to rag on Oklahoma.

Is there a reason why there is still discussion about driving habits in the UNP thread? We probably have 3-5 driving habit/gripe threads from the last few months. Would probably be best to shift to that.

As far as UNP related. Finally went up to Crest and it is a really nice store. I hope they can keep it like that, but we'll see. Still a bit of a drive for me to go to over Homeland, but there might be some cases where it makes sense.

Mauds, we need a driving complaint subforum.

Is there a reason why there is still discussion about driving habits in the UNP thread? We probably have 3-5 driving habit/gripe threads from the last few months. Would probably be best to shift to that.

As far as UNP related. Finally went up to Crest and it is a really nice store. I hope they can keep it like that, but we'll see. Still a bit of a drive for me to go to over Homeland, but there might be some cases where it makes sense.


Too much of a drive? Isn't the homeland just down the street?

Also they have kept up their 104/may store, clean and always stocked.

Too much of a drive? Isn't the homeland just down the street?

Also they have kept up their 104/may store, clean and always stocked.

Crest keeps all there stores clean and presentable. They are one of the few stores that have employees working around the clock facing, stocking and cleaning. The only store that had any issues was the Reno Crest because it was aging. It just recieved a remodel with a lighting upgrade, new coolers/freezers and fresh paint. The store looks great.

Too much of a drive? Isn't the homeland just down the street?

Also they have kept up their 104/may store, clean and always stocked.

Should have said..."still a bit of a drive for me instead of just going over to Homeland." Considering I'm in SE Norman with a Homeland a mile from the house versus 8 miles away for Crest.

I am in SE Norman also and I make the trip to Crest up at UNP. No way am I dealing with Crapland.

I am in SE Norman also and I make the trip to Crest up at UNP. No way am I dealing with Crapland.

Eh, the one on Alameda isn't terrible. I tend to coupon as well so I don't pay anywhere near what their sale prices are (I never buy non-sale items from them). I tend to know where prices typically fall so if I see something that is well priced at another store I'll get it there instead.

Seen a sign west of Ashleys Furniture beside I-35 that Chucky Cheeses is coming soon! Be excited people, this is BIG news! :-)

Destination shopping! Wow. Folk will most certainly drive from Dallas to frequent this 5-star restaurant. I wonder if you will be able to see the exploding water cannons while you dine?

Seen a sign west of Ashleys Furniture beside I-35 that Chucky Cheeses is coming soon! Be excited people, this is BIG news! :-)aawwwww yeah! Next thing you know they'll announce a Taco Bell!!!!!!!!

Went to Ashley Furniture yesterday to look for some pieces for our house. I called and they said they had a soft opening last Monday and a grand opening on Thursday. Well laid out store, reasonable prices and not all those annoying vultures like Mathis Brothers...

I am sooooo happy we are getting a Chuck E Cheese in Norman. Sometimes, you just want to get out, put your feet down and let other people's loud kiddos and crazy relatives hoop and hollar all around and slosh their soda on your shoes while you eat kiddie playground quality chow that is called pizza just because it's fun to pretend it is I suppose