Because you still have an older generation running things at the City and NEDC. ...

Surely there is some other more likely reason. Norman and NEDC have each had a web presence for a number of years. Not saying the sites are exceptional or anything, but the two sites have been around a spell.

Even better - instead of life-style center they propose a traditional office park.

Technically the plan is to have the office park north of Embassy Suites I believe with hangar access to the airport. Then the lifestyle center is suppose to be across 24th. Who knows though. NEDC and the Norman Chamber just love blowing smoke to serve their own personal agendas.


Yep. Maybe rover can tell us what happened to the aerospace company or why any of the various other companies that look around decide on other sites?

Aerospace company = smoke. :)

Well we got half of council replaced this last go around, time to get the other half done next year. Granted Lynn Miller isn't exactly young, but thankfully the redneck teabagger is gone.
Dude, get over yourself. I'm not sure who you're talking about but you people with your whining. That's why I left this place for years. Looks like I may need to leave for good. I doubt someone would be allowed to say that liberal, pansy, tree huggers are an embarrassment without some sort of repisal on these boards.

You liberals with your Oklahoma has to change has to be more progressive (read liberal), has to get rid of the conservative thinking etc. I know you all want OKC to be a carbon copy of a place like Seattle but what's the purpose? Instead of making a carbon copy, just go live in the original. You guys and your talk of tolerance is laughable because you can't seem to tolerate anyone with a differing view. You won't shop at Wal Mart of Hobby Lobby because of their conservative nature. I see these posts in these threads on here. It seems there's been more of these posts just lately. The hatred is palpable. There are cities in this country with a decidedly liberal lean. There should be room in this country for cities with a conservative lean. You don't need to change it, you don't need to fix, it because it's not broken.

If someone doesn't join in on the liberal circle jerk on these boards then they're unwelcome.

Dude, get over yourself. I'm not sure who you're talking about but you people with your whining. That's why I left this place for years. Looks like I may need to leave for good. I doubt someone would be allowed to say that liberal, pansy, tree huggers are an embarrassment without some sort of repisal on these boards.

You liberals with your Oklahoma has to change has to be more progressive (read liberal), has to get rid of the conservative thinking etc. I know you all want OKC to be a carbon copy of a place like Seattle but what's the purpose? Instead of making a carbon copy, just go live in the original. You guys and your talk of tolerance is laughable because you can't seem to tolerate anyone with a differing view. You won't shop at Wal Mart of Hobby Lobby because of their conservative nature. I see these posts in these threads on here. It seems there's been more of these posts just lately. The hatred is palpable. There are cities in this country with a decidedly liberal lean. There should be room in this country for cities with a conservative lean. You don't need to change it, you don't need to fix, it because it's not broken.

If someone doesn't join in on the liberal circle jerk on these boards then they're unwelcome.


Being smart with what you build so that you don't have to rebuild it again doesn't all sound liberal to me, in fact that sounds pretty conservative if you want to put labels on it.

I don't agree with the teabagger statement, per se...however I am in favor of building something that lasts and doesn't take up as much space and utilizes the space to its best use...since I want to be conservative with how much land we are using to construct places like UNP.

I shop at Wal-Mart and Hobby Lobby....and I also advocate smart growth and wise-use of our land..and I don't believe UNP (the way that it is currently constructed) is either of those things.

Dude, get over yourself. I'm not sure who you're talking about but you people with your whining. That's why I left this place for years. Looks like I may need to leave for good. I doubt someone would be allowed to say that liberal, pansy, tree huggers are an embarrassment without some sort of repisal on these boards.

You liberals with your Oklahoma has to change has to be more progressive (read liberal), has to get rid of the conservative thinking etc. I know you all want OKC to be a carbon copy of a place like Seattle but what's the purpose? Instead of making a carbon copy, just go live in the original. You guys and your talk of tolerance is laughable because you can't seem to tolerate anyone with a differing view. You won't shop at Wal Mart of Hobby Lobby because of their conservative nature. I see these posts in these threads on here. It seems there's been more of these posts just lately. The hatred is palpable. There are cities in this country with a decidedly liberal lean. There should be room in this country for cities with a conservative lean. You don't need to change it, you don't need to fix, it because it's not broken.

If someone doesn't join in on the liberal circle jerk on these boards then they're unwelcome.

Apparently you have pretty rose colored glasses. There is a fair amount of back and forth on these boards, and please don't lump me in with the traditional "liberal" definition. My positions are pretty clear. However, if you had been exposed to the follies of Dave Spaulding for the last couple of years, you would be rejoicing to see him kicked out of City Council after one term. He brought an agenda that completely clashed with moving Norman forward and continued to sidetrack discussions with a Tea Party agenda that had no place in local politics. We also need to keep in mind that Norman is a fairly moderate city when compared to the rest of the state. Someone coming in with such divisive viewpoints and agendas wasn't helping anyone.

Perhaps educate yourself on the nature of what is (and was) going in Norman before making assumptions and looking like a fool. Do people want Norman to be the next Seattle? Hardly. I love the balance of an academic college town and a very laid back community. However, we also need to make sure we plan properly going forward to be sure we don't turn into "just another suburb". We are getting close, but hopefully fresh blood on council will help avoid continuing down the path.

....continued to sidetrack discussions with a Tea Party agenda that had no place in local politics.

That is because some of my fellow tea-party travelers are misguided; like they haven't thought their position completely. Here is a quick example to prove the point. The right-wing says the economy isn't doing great because all Obama has done is create part-time low wage jobs. Then the liberals in D.C. essentially ban Wal-Mart because they don't pay enough money, consider 27 hours a week full-time, and encourage their employees to go on public assistance to make up the deficiency with their wages. But guess who comes to the defense of Wal-Mart - you guessed it - the right-wing tea-party types.

All the conversation and hand-wringing about this project aside... having the Embassy Suites and Conference Center go up early in the process was what killed this whole thing. It was the equivalent of paying a contractor in advance for building a house. Certain powers-that-be wanted this project to go up so that they could get the conference center built. Once that was done, it was left up to the developer and the city council to keep things rolling on their own... obviously that hasn't worked out so well.

Just my assessment of it all. Having said that, I'm not nearly as upset about UNP as some of y'all. I am there quite frequently and find that the stores and restaurants that are there are pretty convenient and useful for me. But, I wouldn't be upset at something nicer going in there, for sure.

UNP is a nice strip center, and fairly convenient for central and west Norman. I've said it before but any kind of faux-urban lifestyle center should not be part of this development, and so far hasn't been. That should be in a real urban area like Campus Corner or anchoring the west end of downtown along Main as a redevelopment of the strip malls there. Leave UNP as a place for big box stores and a collection of chain restaurants, and hopefully eventually more office space in the northern parts. It is in a good location to create a new office cluster for the entire south OKC metro along I-35 between Rock Creek and Tecumseh.

Apparently you have pretty rose colored glasses. There is a fair amount of back and forth on these boards, and please don't lump me in with the traditional "liberal" definition. My positions are pretty clear. However, if you had been exposed to the follies of Dave Spaulding for the last couple of years, you would be rejoicing to see him kicked out of City Council after one term. He brought an agenda that completely clashed with moving Norman forward and continued to sidetrack discussions with a Tea Party agenda that had no place in local politics. We also need to keep in mind that Norman is a fairly moderate city when compared to the rest of the state. Someone coming in with such divisive viewpoints and agendas wasn't helping anyone.

Perhaps educate yourself on the nature of what is (and was) going in Norman before making assumptions and looking like a fool. Do people want Norman to be the next Seattle? Hardly. I love the balance of an academic college town and a very laid back community. However, we also need to make sure we plan properly going forward to be sure we don't turn into "just another suburb". We are getting close, but hopefully fresh blood on council will help avoid continuing down the path.

I don't mean to threadjack this thread so this will be the last I say about it.

What I was saying wasn't about what was going on in Norman. It was about that some people on here seem to believe that if someone doesn't agree with their point of view then that person must be some redneck, uneducated, backwoods, teabagger. Which I'm guessing teabagger is your "clever" little name for tea party people and not literally a sexual term.

I'm not a teaparty member but I've obviously got differing views from some of you on here. But I try to avoid getting into political or socio-political discussions on here. I stay off of the politics forum on here. I try to be respectful of other people's views and opinions on here.

And it's not just you. Don't think that this is personal, it's not.

UNP is a nice strip center, and fairly convenient for central and west Norman. I've said it before but any kind of faux-urban lifestyle center should not be part of this development, and so far hasn't been.

I think that is what we are all saying. The problem is that it WAS sold a new urbanism lifestyle center and is still presented that way - and it isn't one. I wonder if it was built as it was billed if it would be full of office space already.

I seen a sign up behind Kohls/Dollar Tree today for an Ashley Home Store coming soon.

That's good news, I really like some of their furniture and hopefully it will be a better price than Mathis Bros. Cut out the middle man!

That's good news, I really like some of their furniture and hopefully it will be a better price than Mathis Bros. Cut out the middle man!

Its being built by/owned by, Mathis Brothers

Its being built by/owned by, Mathis Brothers

OMG I hope Rit makes an appearance

Its being built by/owned by, Mathis Brothers

Well, Fiddlesticks. Mathis does have a reasonable price to quality ratio though.

There's a dollar tree up there? Wow, real upscale.

There's a dollar tree up there? Wow, real upscale.

I love Dollar Tree. You can buy good merchandise for a measly dollar.

I have their stock. Dollar Tree is the greatest store in the entire world.
Any strip center is super lucky to have a Dollar Tree as a tenant.

I love Dollar Tree. You can buy good merchandise for a measly dollar.

I have their stock. Dollar Tree is the greatest store in the entire world.
Any strip center is super lucky to have a Dollar Tree as a tenant.


I can't even begin to describe how I feel haha.

I love Dollar Tree. You can buy good merchandise for a measly dollar.

I have their stock. Dollar Tree is the greatest store in the entire world.
Any strip center is super lucky to have a Dollar Tree as a tenant.

While DT may or may not be the greatest store in the world, this idea of greatness is not what the planners told the public would be going in there.

While DT may or may not be the greatest store in the world, this idea of greatness is not what the planners told the public would be going in there.

I am not a fan of Dollar Tree and would rather have more upscale options, but the planners DID say that there would be stores like that on THAT side of the road. The upscale part is supposed to be across the street between Crest and the Embassy Suites. This development is very misunderstood.

I am not a fan of Dollar Tree and would rather have more upscale options, but the planners DID say that there would be stores like that on THAT side of the road. The upscale part is supposed to be across the street between Crest and the Embassy Suites. This development is very misunderstood.

I have a sliver of hope left that with them establishing the traffic to that area now, and starting to get more fill in...that it will have the town center/lifestyle center developed on the east side of 24th do better.

I have a sliver of hope left that with them establishing the traffic to that area now, and starting to get more fill in...that it will have the town center/lifestyle center developed on the east side of 24th do better.

sigh.

sigh.

I know i know. However, I've seen lifestyle centers pop up everywhere up north and many fail miserably because there is no additional development around them. At least now there is a significant amount of people in that area every day which should help drive more people to the area to make a higher end store do well.

I am not a fan of Dollar Tree and would rather have more upscale options, but the planners DID say that there would be stores like that on THAT side of the road. The upscale part is supposed to be across the street between Crest and the Embassy Suites. This development is very misunderstood.

There are 7000 Dollar Tree stores around the country including many in "Upscale" malls.
There's a Dollar Tree in the Mall of America, at North Park Mall in Dallas and in many fine centers.
You'll find some Dollar Trees next to Nordstrom's, next to Neiman's.

It is one of the more well run businesses in retailing.
And I'm not just saying this because I've built Dollar Tree's in Connecticut, Long Island, Seattle, Portland, Florida,
and in 30 other spots across the country.

The Dollar Tree brings traffic. Even the princesses and Lambo drivers drop in to fill their Gucci's they've just bought up the road.

I have some doubt that there is a nordstrom next to a dollar tree.

You have to keep in mind that this was developed during the real estate crash. Many discount retailers are finding themselves welcome in places they were once snubbed. They have the money to expand while others don't have money to expand or have the money and have chosen to invest in their exiting locations.

I have some doubt that there is a nordstrom next to a dollar tree.

Define 'next to' Here in Jax our new Nordstrom is in the same shopping center as Dollar Tree. Not right next door to it but close enough you can walk from one to the other.

The council's agenda for last Tuesday included the UNP Final Site Development Plan. It's, of course, terrible design.

4839

Isn't this a lovely life-style center design? :)

The council's agenda for last Tuesday included the UNP Final Site Development Plan. It's, of course, terrible design.

4839

Isn't this a lovely life-style center design? :)

I thought the lifestyle center was supposed to be south of Embassy Suites? Am I mistaken?

Also, this whole thing has been a disappointment. I can't believe this is what we ended up with. Could have at least added some apartments or something.

I thought the lifestyle center was supposed to be south of Embassy Suites? Am I mistaken?

Also, this whole thing has been a disappointment. I can't believe this is what we ended up with. Could have at least added some apartments or something.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the Lifestyle center is further SEW than this map. It seems to just be the build out plan for the final patch to the NW section. I think at this point it is expected all highway adjacent development is going to be big box.

It just looks like a nightmare to navigate with a car, much less with your feet!!

If I'm not mistaken that is south of rock creek and west of 24th. In theory the lifestyle portion is supposed to start NE of there. And I agree, crappy layout.

If I'm not mistaken that is south of rock creek and west of 24th. In theory the lifestyle portion is supposed to start NE of there. And I agree, crappy layout.

That's correct. Here is a direct link to the image so it is a bit bigger to read. You can clearly see Rock Creek at the top and 35 to the left. 24th is off the map. Lifestyle portion is actually East or slightly SE of this area.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/norman/4839d1382627627-update-university-north-park-plan.jpg

If I'm not mistaken that is south of rock creek and west of 24th. In theory the lifestyle portion is supposed to start NE of there. And I agree, crappy layout.

Yep, that's my bad. I mistook Rock Creek Rd for Tecumseh Rd. Venture's right on the location.

It's bad that we have to distinguish which streets are which to determine which part of the development is supposed to be a "lifestyle center" and which part isn't.....since we obviously can't tell by the design because it's all the same typical linear commercial sprawling development.

I don't know... from what I have been reading lately on the Norman threads this 'lifestyle' center pretty much aligns with Norman's lifestyle. I would say they nailed it.

I don't know... from what I have been reading lately on the Norman threads this 'lifestyle' center pretty much aligns with Norman's lifestyle. I would say they nailed it.

Harsh, but true.

I don't know... from what I have been reading lately on the Norman threads this 'lifestyle' center pretty much aligns with Norman's lifestyle. I would say they nailed it.

What you expect Normanites to walk, ride their bike, or use public transit? Silly Floridian. I'm going to go cry in the corner now.

I read that Crest opens next week. Has anybody heard anything about what the store will be like or anything special going on next week?

Opens Monday, November 18th.

Thus exhausts my knowledge of the matter, though I wish them well.

Opens Monday, November 18th.

Thus exhausts my knowledge of the matter, though I wish them well.

Nobody has stopped by to give us a report yet?

It's only been open a few hours. maybe they are still in checkout line?

It's only been open a few hours. maybe they are still in checkout line?

Or doing that thing called work. :)

planning on going by this evening, will give an update

You're talking about a grocery store?

no, no, no Jersey. We're talking about a CREST! Home of Rock bottom Prices.

.oO(oh crikies, when did I start to channel Thunder anyway)Oo.

FWIW, I drove by there this afternoon on my way to a business appt. No doubt they are having a decent opening day. Parking lot was jammed packed both times I went by.

Yea it was really busy. The isles were super wide and everything was very nice looking. There were virtually no lines which was a suprise. Overall it reminded me of the Resers in Bixby, if anyone has been. Much nicer than there store on Rockwell or any homeland here in Norman.

I was surprised at how extremely large the new Crest is. I'm thinking it's the largest grocery store in Norman now. So the pros include many things... The store is very nice and certainly has its upscale elements such as multiple deli counters, a desert counter that looks nearly as nice as the glass counter at La Baguette, refrigerated compartments specializing in something like one I saw that was nothing but different types of mushrooms, and so on. The cons for me are two things... The first is that while they have a good selection of products and many fully cooked meals ready to go, I definitely do not get the Whole Foods-esque healthy and allergen-free vibe there. The other con is the staff... I noticed people at the deli counter standing around, or coming up to the counters, and while employees were standing by ready no one was acknowledging the customers' presence. No "hi can I help you." The other thing I found annoying was that the kids doing inventory and moving around boxes of stuff were the crowd that thinks it's okay to walk in front of your customers, or cut off old ladies, and not say excuse me or even acknowledge a human presence. So from that perspective there was definitely that certain walmart vibe.

I've been meaning to post some new pictures of UNP. The latest round of development is actually quite nice, and in some instances quite modern. If I get some free time after the holiday I'll do that and post them here.

I was surprised at how extremely large the new Crest is. I'm thinking it's the largest grocery store in Norman now. So the pros include many things... The store is very nice and certainly has its upscale elements such as multiple deli counters, a desert counter that looks nearly as nice as the glass counter at La Baguette, refrigerated compartments specializing in something like one I saw that was nothing but different types of mushrooms, and so on. The cons for me are two things... The first is that while they have a good selection of products and many fully cooked meals ready to go, I definitely do not get the Whole Foods-esque healthy and allergen-free vibe there. The other con is the staff... I noticed people at the deli counter standing around, or coming up to the counters, and while employees were standing by ready no one was acknowledging the customers' presence. No "hi can I help you." The other thing I found annoying was that the kids doing inventory and moving around boxes of stuff were the crowd that thinks it's okay to walk in front of your customers, or cut off old ladies, and not say excuse me or even acknowledge a human presence. So from that perspective there was definitely that certain walmart vibe.


Your first con: Crest does not aim for a certain type of customer like Whole Foods does. They aim for the general public and they will adjust their store based on the feed back they receive from the everyday customers once the newness wears off and everyday traffic commences. When the 104th Street store opened my parents hated it because they didn't carry the stuff they liked. They thought the store belonged in Nichols Hills or Edmond (They prefer a simple store with the things they like to buy). Now that the newness is gone, they love it and do almost all their shopping there.

Second Con: The employees will get better and the quality of the service will get better. I have been a loyal Crest shopper for years now and the Harroz family expects the best customer service possible from there employees and I like to think they treat them well because I have seen same faces at the Midwest City stores since I moved here in 2008. The people that don't provide the best customer service usually don't stay very long with Crest. Lastly, a large number of the grand opening employees usually turn over in the first year with just about every business I have dealt with over the years.

I made my first trip to the new Norman Crest last night and was impressed... It's now Norman’s nicest Grocery store.

I had no problems with the help. They were mostly kids who will learn and get better.
We were asked if we could be helped at all the counters we closely looked at. My wife recognized several faces from Sprouts and Homeland. One employe told her that Crest treated their employees much better than either of the other 2 stores. There were a few rock bottom prices on a few items which we stocked up on.

The new Crest is going to really cut into Wal Mart, Target and Homeland's grocery sales. I don't see how the near by Homeland makes it. But we can enjoy the lower prices caused by the competition.
It was very windy, there was dirt blowing from the fresh the construction site into the parking area. That was the worst thing I saw.

I would agree with.... “They aim for the general public”

It's a nice addition to Norman. This level of grocery store is to be expected in a metro of this size. It's not extraordinary but certainly a big step better than most. I wish OKC didn't have a few decent stores here and there but more consistency for quality. I hope other grocery stores and chains continue to value quality. With that said, I will now be shopping here instead of Walmart, Target, and Crapland.

Apparently this development has changed its name to University Town Center? I received some marketing information on it with the new name recently. I also noticed this website has now been created:

University Town Center (http://www.shopuniversitytc.com/)

Sigh. It's anything but a town center, oh well...cemantics

Apparently this development has changed its name to University Town Center? I received some marketing information on it with the new name recently. I also noticed this website has now been created:

University Town Center (http://www.shopuniversitytc.com/)

I was always confused by the name "University North Park". It kept reminding me of either the Shoppes at NorthPark in OKC or NorthPark Center/University Park in Dallas.

Apparently this development has changed its name to University Town Center? I received some marketing information on it with the new name recently. I also noticed this website has now been created:

University Town Center (http://www.shopuniversitytc.com/)

They could have done better than that, this website is awful. I guess the website mimics the development, cheesy & cheap. UNP never lived up to what its original vision was supposed to be, a walkable mixed-use environment. Its just a massive sprawling strip mall/shopping center. One could argue that the town center in Midwest City is more pedestrian friendly, walkable, and better planned. I don't know where the ball was dropped, but this development still doesn't have housing, no major employer (what happened to the Advanced Manufacturing Center?), no office space (what happened to the corporate office park?), and no walking or bike trails.

It seems like every year the Norman Transcript will do a story on UNP saying a major employer is coming to the development, and the corporate office park will start. Well they have been saying this for years now, besides the Embassy Suites hotel, nothing developed in UNP has been catalyst. What a joke...

Yeah it's a pretty bad website. I think they basically just used a standard wordpress template. I guess their website was designed by the same 14 year old that planned out their land use.

Sigh. It's anything but a town center, oh well...cemantics

Notice how the 10 pictures on the front page of the "Town Center" website are all of the parking lot, or taken in the parking lot. Failure on soooo many levels, but at least it doesn't include a Walmart (yet).

Notice how the 10 pictures on the front page of the "Town Center" website are all of the parking lot, or taken in the parking lot. Failure on soooo many levels, but at least it doesn't include a Walmart (yet).

Big blue walmart box, no. Big red target box, yes.
six of one, half dozen of the other on a few levels.

We can't expect anything to change in the form of development in Norman anytime soon. The average Normanite doesn't 1) care about design 2) isn't even aware about "good" or acceptable design/form.