Just introduced on Steve's blog. Wow.

There's lots more to come. Hang on to your underwear.

Doug and I are involved in something very, very, very exciting... history, my friends, is about to get interesting.

Maybe I am slow...but, what is this?

Well, let's just say that it is sexy.

http://www.myspacefx.net/import/graphics/Funny_Graphics_and_Pics/lol-cats_i-love-this-thread-so-much.jpg

George, have the title to say IM Pei OKC and then add the actual link when you make the first post. That way people don't have to copy/paste.

I.M. Pei OKC | Resurrecting the Model | May 2010 (http://www.impeiokc.com)

Well, let's just say that it is sexy.

Ah! It must be that statue of me in Bricktown that was proposed a few months back.

Bingo! Stand ready for your wholeness to be unveiled for all to see! Or not.

Started following them on twitter a couple of days ago. I must say, the images are fantastic.

http://www.myspacefx.net/import/graphics/Funny_Graphics_and_Pics/lol-cats_i-love-this-thread-so-much.jpg

That is just too good (no offense to Steve et al)

Wow.
This is the very model I remember seeing in the early/mid seventies at the fairgrounds near what is currently the OPUBCO Pavilion just northwest of the "space needle"
I remember the two sets of triplet towers thinking, even then, how cool it would look and far away the date was that it would come to fruition.
Had that image in my mind for decades...nostalgic.

really like the Retro Metro logo.

Thanks goodness very little of that plan got done. All that Soviet style architecture would be a nightmare today, not to mention the multiple plazas and vast open space. OKC dodged a bullet.

okc dodged a bullet.

eh... i'd say yes and no on that, kerry. -M

eh... i'd say yes and no on that, kerry. -M

I was thinking when I wrote it that maybe we did take the bullet - it just didn't kill us. Maybe we just cheated death but the damage was done.

Kudos on the very slick website. JTM did a nice job.

There's lots more to come. Hang on to your underwear.

what if we're going commando? :LolLolLol


Thanks goodness very little of that plan got done. All that Soviet style architecture would be a nightmare today, not to mention the multiple plazas and vast open space. OKC dodged a bullet.

Agreed, although as you later commented, lots of damage was done and we lost more than we gained in the end.

Guys, if any of you have memories you can share related to the I.M. Pei plan and that era of Urban Renewal, please do so by emailing them to justin@retrometrookc.org

I can't even look at it. Thinking about what happened makes me sick.

I see things to like and dislike in the model. Some of the architecture may leave some to be desired, but at the same time, I like some of the curved roads and open spaces. And some of the buildings on the model are very imposing and impressive.

Kudos on the very slick website. JTM did a nice job.

Justin Tyler More is one of the most talented web and graphic designers I've met. He and Cody Cooper are the brains behind Abandoned Oklahoma.

Very cool. This I have to see.

cool site I wish we would have kept some of them buildings
The aireal of downtown before renewal looks pretty dense I always thought even though OKC downtown doesnt have height it has density.

never knew it was even more dense than present once upon a time.

I did find it interesting that the model has a tall building on the same lot Liberty/Chase/Cotter ended up being built. Does anyone know if the Pei Plan led to Liberty Tower being built where it is? Also the cluster of three skyscrapers looks a lot like the design for the Kerr McGee/Sandridge building.

Fascinating/creepy that there is a plaza with (apparently) a reflecting pool in almost the exact location as the OKC National Memorial public space. They obviously could not forsee street closure on 5th, and the model's plaza sits on the existing, barely-utilized park on top of the federal parking garage overlooking the memorial, but the location and appearance are uncanny.

If anyone watched the film reels, the announcers voice and music perfectly fit the optimism of the time. It is understandable why the city fathers feel in love with this "vision" and started tearing down things with abandon.

Probably one of the most notable things I observed in the film is that the Biltmore is depicted as standing in the model. I had always heard that it was because of the Pei Plan that it was torn down. I guess the leaders at the time picked and chose what parts they would adhere to.

Yep. Steve and Jack Money wrote about this in "OKC: Second Time Around." Pei told OKC to keep the Biltmore and a number of other structures standing. However, the City's leadership became enamored with the "clean slate" approach and the potential to re-make the city. Also, various developers urged them to tear down buildings speculatively to make their proposed developments (much of which never happened) more profitable or doable. In some cases they did this, and in some cases they did not.

So basically, what we got was an overly-agressive implementation (and lack of implementation, regarding the re-building) of a bastardized version of what may or may not have been a plan with at least SOME merit.

I'm hoping that with the launch of I.M. Pei OKC | Resurrecting the Model | May 2010 (http://www.impeiokc.com) and the upcoming display of the model we can have a better understand of what happened and realize nothing is all bad or all good. I can argue there were good aspects in the original Pei Plan (and yes, I'm horrified that the Baum, Warner and Criterion were torn down). And there's an interesting parlor game that can be played on "what if the Biltmore hadn't been torn down?" I can make the case that such a change in history might have greatly hurt the odds of restoring the Skirvin to what we see today.
Regardless, history can be our best teacher as we move forward.

Amazing, just amazing!

Oh and when I saw the plaza in the same location as the OKC memorial today...it sent a chill down my spine, very prophetic in a spooky sort of way.

Very, very cool but also depressing.

Does anyone else remember the similar model that was displayed in the center court of Penn Square Mall around 15 years ago? It was what was envisioned after MAPS. It was a little more elaborate that what we got. As I recall, it had the canal going into the Myriad Gardens lake.

Thanks goodness very little of that plan got done. All that Soviet style architecture would be a nightmare today, not to mention the multiple plazas and vast open space. OKC dodged a bullet.

I've read your posts pertaining to urban issues in the past, and I think we finally have something we agree on.

Having said that, I say take a bunch of pictures of that Pei Soviet Bloc city model, and then burn the damn thing. Seriously. Why are people in Okc celebrating it? Burn it. And that I.M. Pei person - HORRIBLY arrogant. I saw him interviewed on TV and he was joking about, "My name is I.M. Pei, not I.M. Free." Basically bragging about his supposed greatness. Whatever. Don't need any stupid model to remember him. Hell, just look at all the surface parking lots in downtown. That should be enough to remember him by.

It's not to "remember him by" or to "celebrate" anything. It's just a piece of history. Burn it? Don't be silly.

Thanks goodness very little of that plan got done. All that Soviet style architecture would be a nightmare today, not to mention the multiple plazas and vast open space. OKC dodged a bullet.

100% agree Kerry. What a sterile nightmare.

And what did we get when they started demolition to implement this plan? Parking lots.

Excellent job, Steve et al.

Thank goodness we're in a more enlightened age where we aren't trying to tear down what remains of downtown's urban fabric.

Phew.

Excellent job, Steve et al.

Thank goodness we're in a more enlightened age where we aren't trying to tear down what remains of downtown's urban fabric.

Phew.

Well, sorta - Sandridge anyone?

Well, sorta - Sandridge anyone?

Yeah I think that was sarcasm.

And there's an interesting parlor game that can be played on "what if the Biltmore hadn't been torn down?" I can make the case that such a change in history might have greatly hurt the odds of restoring the Skirvin to what we see today.

Steve - you make an important point. As much as seeing historical photos of downtown OKC pain me in the amount of needless destruction that took place during urban renewal - all the mistakes, gaps in the urban fabric and empty lots present an opportunity for us to be dynamic in what we do moving forward in a way that would be impossible if everything had been flawlessly well preserved. Cities such as that, and I can think of a few, run the risk of constantly looking backwards - the ossification that results from living in one big museum.

The opportunity, however, is also a responsibility on the part of those of us who care to speak up too. Kudos to all involved on this project - can't wait to see more as it unfolds.

Yeah hopefully this will help put an end to the use of Pei as a scapegoat for what were just as much our own mistakes.

To me, I.M. Pei was the heroin dealer. The idiot city leaders were the addicts. Everyone involved should be shamed.

Yeah hopefully this will help put an end to the use of Pei as a scapegoat for what were just as much our own mistakes.
Ahh... the discussion moves to a higher level. Now, let me challenge all of you on this matter: how did Pei inspire city leaders to do things right?

how did Pei inspire city leaders to do things right?

I could see how he would have inspired them to do things right in hindsight...but in the context of the original urban renewal effort? I'll have to give that some thought...

Steve, I'm not sure what you're asking because I don't know how Pei inspired anything but demolition and parking lots. I sorta concede the notion that Pei didn't want to demo the Biltmore, but he designed that damn cloudy, cylindrical, greenhouse thing where the Biltmore once stood! Maybe he didn't mean for it to be in that particular location?

All I know is that there is no love lost on that Pei character. So he designed the glass pyramid at the Louvre in Paris. Nothing special considering it's out of place against the Baroque architecture of the Louvre. Trying to be all avant-garde, but looks more like something a 5th grader came up with instead.

Sorry, no good words for him.

Ron Ronnie, I'm basically challenging folks to question what they know, what they believe, and consider alternative views of our history. I can think of one BIG inspiration - one that has lasted for almost a half century and is still going strong...
Maybe it's time to drop the good guy/bad guy view of history and to go a little deeper... at least consider it. I really hope this upcoming exhibit, and the conversation that follows, will leave us with a better understanding of the choices and complexities involved with keeping the urban core alive.
I know of at least four different threads on this site that are directly related to the issues first posed by the Pei Plan.

I can think of one BIG inspiration - one that has lasted for almost a half century and is still going strong...


Steve, I assume you're referring to the Cox Convention Center (nee Myriad) and indeed that was something greatly needed at the time even if it is outdated now. The biggest concern about that building at the time it was being built was the roof design. Many people felt it was dangerous and might fall in at some point. I guess they were wrong.

Nope, less tangible...

The thing I noticed Steve was that the elevated Crosstown Expressway is depicted in the model and referred to in the film. It sounds as though it was inspired as part of Pei's plan (at least the elevated aspects, which was revolutionary at the time).

Also, note EK Gaylord Boulevard and the downsizing of the freight railway right-of-way. It looks as though they "moved" the retaining wall as part of this plan to make way for EK Gaylord.

Myriad Gardens was probably the biggest Civic inspiration that is now being renovated. This idea of a large public garden has hung on through time. Why, we are just about to replace the glass panels in the tube.

The more I think about this, I do worry that some of you might think I'm becoming a defender of how so many wonderful historic buildings were razed. This is not so!
I hate what happened...
So, let me share my perspective, which right now is constantly evolving the more I learn about all this.
Pei inspired city leaders to ensure that downtown remained the heart of the city - that it remained a focal point and something worth fighting for even as the city tended to sprawl in all directions.
And yes, if you step back and take an honest account of everything, the city's leadership in the 1960s through the early 1980s didn't abandon downtown. They worked furiously to reinvent it, to make it relevant for a new generation.
Unfortunately they were too zealous in their crusade, and looking back it's easy to say they could have been a lot more thoughtful in what they did and didn't tear down.
Some buildings had to go folks. Most of the area where the convention center was built wasn't really worth saving. The same could be said about where the Myriad Gardens was built.
Now here's the controversial part of my look back... the Biltmore was a wonderful part of the downtown skyline. But when you look at how it was constructed, when you look at how it was never truly a successful business. When you look at how if it had survived it would have distracted from efforts to save the Skirvin... I can make the case, reluctantly, for the demolition of the Biltmore.
That's it folks - I.M. Pei inspired our city to not give up on downtown and to dream big dreams.

This is why planners/city leaders have to be cautious about their "vision". Sometimes well intentioned planning can have dire foreseen and unforeseen consequences. We all think we know what's best.

That's it folks - I.M. Pei inspired our city to not give up on downtown and to dream big dreams. That's way more meta than the lines I was thinking along ... but I like it.

The more I think about this, I do worry that some of you might think I'm becoming a defender of how so many wonderful historic buildings were razed. This is not so!
I hate what happened...
So, let me share my perspective, which right now is constantly evolving the more I learn about all this.
Pei inspired city leaders to ensure that downtown remained the heart of the city - that it remained a focal point and something worth fighting for even as the city tended to sprawl in all directions.
And yes, if you step back and take an honest account of everything, the city's leadership in the 1960s through the early 1980s didn't abandon downtown. They worked furiously to reinvent it, to make it relevant for a new generation.
Unfortunately they were too zealous in their crusade, and looking back it's easy to say they could have been a lot more thoughtful in what they did and didn't tear down.
Some buildings had to go folks. Most of the area where the convention center was built wasn't really worth saving. The same could be said about where the Myriad Gardens was built.
Now here's the controversial part of my look back... the Biltmore was a wonderful part of the downtown skyline. But when you look at how it was constructed, when you look at how it was never truly a successful business. When you look at how if it had survived it would have distracted from efforts to save the Skirvin... I can make the case, reluctantly, for the demolition of the Biltmore.
That's it folks - I.M. Pei inspired our city to not give up on downtown and to dream big dreams.

I'll sum it up in a sentence. OKC is too big to dream small. Alaska might be America's last frontier, but Oklahoma was the next to last frontier. Whether it was OKC on day one, the IM Pei plan, or the MAPS sequence - OKC was built on big ideas.

Historically, as I see it, the problem wasn't that 2/3 of downtown was destroyed, it was that it was allowed to descend to a level where destruction was even necessary. The IM Pei plan wasn't the problem, it was a solution. The problems existed before anyone in OKC knew who IM Pei was.

i will take the biltmore over the skrivin it may not have more deco but it diffenlty let you know you were downtown.

it could have ate the skrivin

but then again i wasn't even born when it was torn down

will someone that saw, stayed or worked in it inform what it was like

Northsider, I'm limited to what I know from photos. Do you have any memories of the Biltmore that would allow for a better appreciation of this building? Everything I've seen would indicate the Biltmore lacked the quality of design that went into the Skirvin. I'm also told it had low floor to ceiling heights, and with concrete and reenforced steel structure, it would even today be extremely difficult to renovate and adapt for modern use.

I stayed at the Biltmore back in the late 60's and it seemed kinda bland to me but, I was sad to see it destroyed.

Northsider, I'm limited to what I know from photos. Do you have any memories of the Biltmore that would allow for a better appreciation of this building? Everything I've seen would indicate the Biltmore lacked the quality of design that went into the Skirvin. I'm also told it had low floor to ceiling heights, and with concrete and reenforced steel structure, it would even today be extremely difficult to renovate and adapt for modern use.I don't have many memories which only means it wasn't very memorable. What I do remember is it being drab, poorly maintained, and uncomfortable. I suspect it would have been much more difficult and expensive to renovate than the Skirvin and without much good reason.

The Skirvin, on the other hand, is in many good memories. Even when it was old and showing obvious disrepair the grandeur of the place was still there.

I kind of feel the same way about the old First National lobby.

Could anyone tell me what bldg. was on the site before the Murrah bldg.?

Could anyone tell me what bldg. was on the site before the Murrah bldg.?

I believe Father Bruce told me that it was the former Catholic School and Convent grounds tied to the St. Joseph's Old Cathedral at the time.

I believe Father Bruce told me that it was the former Catholic School and Convent grounds tied to the St. Joseph's Old Cathedral at the time. I was working for Southwestern Bell in a bldg. that was right across the street at the time and watched daily as they demolished whatever bldg. or bldgs. that were there. I thought that there was a large hotel there.(could be wrong)

hope this helps... 1955 sanborn map of the area in question. -M

http://www.magnvs.de/pics/murrah_site_1955.jpg

Thanks for the map.