[QUOTE=BOBTHEBUILDER;316027] Could it be whomever is getting these bids is getting some kickbacks? /QUOTE]

Bob, you make a lot of good points but unless you have some information to back this up, it is reckless statement.

If we are concerned about sprawl and its effect on providing cost effective services, such as Public Safety, there is a solution. Following Councilman Marrs suggestion that department heads should identify certain services to be discontinued, and not in the short term until the economy gets better, but from now on. I can think of a simple way to save the City close to 2 million a year, shut down Fire Station #32.

Station 32 is in Ward 8, and for those who are not aware it is the Surry Hills station, in far,far N.W. OKC.

The station houses an Engine and a Brush Pumper and is staffed with 18 Firefighters (3 shifts of 6). When you consider that in a years time they make few if any actual house fires and less than 400 total calls, it seems like a waste of 2 million dollars.

In the rare instance of a house fire why not simply hope no one is home, but if someone should be, then pray they get out in time, and let it burn. If only 2 or 3 burned down a year, at $200-250 k each the City could pay them off and be money ahead.

I'm not sure if the Fire Chief wants to go there and who could blame him. But Marrs could. I'm sure Councilman Ryan would be on board.

[QUOTE=andy157;316246]If we are concerned about sprawl and its effect on providing cost effective services, such as Public Safety, there is a solution. Following Councilman Marrs suggestion that department heads should identify certain services to be discontinued, and not in the short term until the economy gets better, but from now on. I can think of a simple way to save the City close to 2 million a year, shut down Fire Station #32.

Station 32 is in Ward 8, and for those who are not aware it is the Surry Hills station, in far,far N.W. OKC.

The station houses an Engine and a Brush Pumper and is staffed with 18 Firefighters (3 shifts of 6). When you consider that in a years time they make few if any actual house fires and less than 400 total calls, it seems like a waste of 2 million dollars.

In the rare instance of a house fire why not simply hope no one is home, but if someone should be, then pray they get out in time, and let it burn. If only 2 or 3 burned down a year, at $200-250 k each the City could pay them off and be money ahead.

I'm not sure if the Fire Chief wants to go there and who could blame him. But Marrs could. I'm sure Councilman Ryan would be on board.[/QUOTE

Sounds like your proving a point for those that disagree with the firefighters re: staffing. Your saying that St. 32 is not needed, therefore the 18 Firefighters that house there are not needed.

[QUOTE=andy157;316246]If we are concerned about sprawl and its effect on providing cost effective services, such as Public Safety, there is a solution. Following Councilman Marrs suggestion that department heads should identify certain services to be discontinued, and not in the short term until the economy gets better, but from now on. I can think of a simple way to save the City close to 2 million a year, shut down Fire Station #32.

Station 32 is in Ward 8, and for those who are not aware it is the Surry Hills station, in far,far N.W. OKC.

The station houses an Engine and a Brush Pumper and is staffed with 18 Firefighters (3 shifts of 6). When you consider that in a years time they make few if any actual house fires and less than 400 total calls, it seems like a waste of 2 million dollars.

In the rare instance of a house fire why not simply hope no one is home, but if someone should be, then pray they get out in time, and let it burn. If only 2 or 3 burned down a year, at $200-250 k each the City could pay them off and be money ahead.

I'm not sure if the Fire Chief wants to go there and who could blame him. But Marrs could. I'm sure Councilman Ryan would be on board.[/QUOTE

Sounds like your proving a point for those that disagree with the firefighters re: staffing. Your saying that St. 32 is not needed, therefore the 18 Firefighters that house there are not needed.Seems to me the only people who have a real problem with staffing is the C.M., the Mayor, and the Council. They can solve the problem,, each of them needs to select 1 station from their respective wards and close it down. Suck it up and cut staffing, or quit whinning about it. If they do cut the 140 or so Firefighters like they have threatened to do, do you think they will repeal the extra 3/4 cent tax they're collecting that was meant to hire those 140?

Sounds like your proving a point for those that disagree with the firefighters re: staffing. Your saying that St. 32 is not needed, therefore the 18 Firefighters that house there are not needed.

I think your misreading it rc. I think what he's saying is that if councilman Marrs is serious about making these cuts, that he's called for, he needs to step up and let his constituents in the far NW corner of his ward know that he finds them expendable. As far as that goes, every councilman can make the same decision about their wards. Identify the area that they deem excess and let those people know they are an excessive burden on the system. Of course, then they have to pay for these decisions at the ballot box at the next election. That's why I won't be holding my breath waiting. They are, after all politicians. If these decisions are made, the politicians that called for them will stay as far from the fray as possible.

If he thinks closing that station, and leaving the people in those neighborhoods at least 10 minutes from the nearest help, is a feasible solution then he needs to suggest it and own it. Same thing for each one of them. I don't see that happening and I think thats what Andy is saying.

The closest fire station to Gailladia is set to be closed as part of the budget cuts. I wonder if any of the ultra rich are concerned with the loss of their neighborhood fire station? That station also has a paramedic engine company, so the closest advanced life support will also be gone. I was just wondering!

Steve, you finally showed up! You're the hard hitting journalist of the site; was the Mayor lying to us when he was lobbying for Maps 3 touting that it would actually allow for more police and fire protection? Say it isn't so.....And no one from the council disagreed with him, including the CM. Wondered what happened between then and now! Surely someone like you could get to the bottom of this.

Let's see ... as I recall from the campaign ads, the mayor said that passage of MAPS 3 would put more police and firefighters out on the streets. He said this even though the council had not voted on any such offer to dedicate the MAPS 3 use tax to do so.
But barnold, remember, I wasn't included on coverage of the campaign. But I can repeat the facts as well as anybody else.

Steve, What does the mayor on TV telling the people something mean? Everybody wants to talk about the council not having voted on something like that means anything. The mayor of a large city was trying to get this mammoth tax passed and used the promise of increased public safety to help get it done. Now you tell me, wether or not he had council approval, he made promises to get the votes. Is this a case of ooops I made a mistake or he manipulated people?

I can promise you when they lay off Police and Firefighters, his words will be playing all over the place. You know it's on youtube, right?

The truth about Maps3 According Mayor Cornett-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKrTGap3vQ8

So it seems like you could make your case pretty effectively by posting the You Tube link here at www.okctalk.com. So if you feel that an elected official purposely misled residents, what are you prepared to do? Have you checked the charter to see what your options are?

Steve, If you think we are sitting around waiting, were not. We have several people working on our situation.

I can fall back on my training. I was told that I was an Oklahoma City Firefighter 24 hours a day. I was told to act accordingly because I was a representative of the city and I was not to do anything that would bring shame or embarrass the city. I would expect the same from anyone connected with the city.

Steve, what is frustrating is the spin that the overall media put on the Maps 3. I know you weren't specifically charged with covering the vote, but your fellow journalists and media outlets downplayed what the members of the police and fire were stating all along that Essential Services were already hurting and a focus should be made on those items before a Fluff tax for the Maps 3....

"A yes vote puts more police and fire jobs out on the streets"
I'll be as interested as anybody to hear how this is addressed. So now here's the question, with this in mind, and I'm not taking sides here, does this cause some to question the mayor's other promises relating to MAPS 3?
- He has promised a fair and open selection process for a convention center.
- He has promised the projects on the council resolution on MAPS 3 will be built as listed.
- He has promised the MAPS 3 oversight board will be given independence to review and make recommendations relating to the projects.

I would say let's take one broken promise (aka. lie) at a time. Then see if he can save face and come thru with the other items you've listed. With all the money Maps 3 is touted to bring in these should be trivial items to overcome. I would like to at least have one straight answer at a time from the council, mayor and staff.

"A yes vote puts more police and fire jobs out on the streets"
I'll be as interested as anybody to hear how this is addressed. So now here's the question, with this in mind, and I'm not taking sides here, does this cause some to question the mayor's other promises relating to MAPS 3?
- He has promised a fair and open selection process for a convention center.
- He has promised the projects on the council resolution on MAPS 3 will be built as listed.
- He has promised the MAPS 3 oversight board will be given independence to review and make recommendations relating to the projects.I guess when he said there would be more P & F on the streets he wasn't talking about for more protection, he was talking about more unemployed workers on the street.

In June of 1998 the City promised the Citizens that within 5 years that each and everyone of them would be provided a higher level of emergency medicine should they become injured or ill. The promise has not been kept, and all we have to show for it is 13 worn-out Ladder Trucks.

To be fair Andy only six of them are worn out and out of service. We have 1 new one ordered and have let bids for a couple of barely used 1 owners. We did buy one of those already with great success. It's the purple one with white and blue stripes located at station 9. Administration is working hard to correct years of inattention. Kudos to them!

Steve, you are getting dangerously close to making someone explain themselves!

"A yes vote puts more police and fire jobs out on the streets"
I'll be as interested as anybody to hear how this is addressed. So now here's the question, with this in mind, and I'm not taking sides here, does this cause some to question the mayor's other promises relating to MAPS 3?
- He has promised a fair and open selection process for a convention center.
- He has promised the projects on the council resolution on MAPS 3 will be built as listed.
- He has promised the MAPS 3 oversight board will be given independence to review and make recommendations relating to the projects.

I'll ask the same question here that I asked in another thread. How does a two term mayor, who is running for his third term, not know that he doesn't have the authority to make these promises? Or did he know and just lie about it. To read the stories after the elections you'd think he was some sort of political genius. That leads me to think he knew better.

You know the people who can ask these questions and get answers a whole lot better than the rest of us. Please find out why these questions aren't being asked.

Steve, Wambo makes a good point. If it's not on Fox25 or being discussed here it not going to be heard about.

I'll ask the same question here that I asked in another thread. How does a two term mayor, who is running for his third term, not know that he doesn't have the authority to make these promises? Or did he know and just lie about it. To read the stories after the elections you'd think he was some sort of political genius. That leads me to think he knew better.

You know the people who can ask these questions and get answers a whole lot better than the rest of us. Please find out why these questions aren't being asked.

Better yet, why did those Council members who later objected to the Mayor's Use Tax promise remain SILENT about it during the campaign?

Better yet, why did those Council members who later objected to the Mayor's Use Tax promise remain SILENT about it during the campaign?

Very good question. Like Mike said, unless Fox25 presses for the answer, I'm afraid we'll never get to know.

"A yes vote puts more police and fire jobs out on the streets"
I'll be as interested as anybody to hear how this is addressed. So now here's the question, with this in mind, and I'm not taking sides here, does this cause some to question the mayor's other promises relating to MAPS 3?
- He has promised a fair and open selection process for a convention center.
- He has promised the projects on the council resolution on MAPS 3 will be built as listed.
- He has promised the MAPS 3 oversight board will be given independence to review and make recommendations relating to the projects.

Exactly when and were will this be addressed? I hate to tell you this Steve, but until the media starts asking some questions, it'll never be addressed.

Someone could show up at every council meeting from now to hell freezes over asking these questions in that forum. You know what they'll get in the long run? Instead of answers, they'll get to be branded as the next looney tunes citizen activist who won't just sit down and shut up.

Exactly when and were will this be addressed? I hate to tell you this Steve, but until the media starts asking some questions, it'll never be addressed.

Someone could show up at every council meeting from now to hell freezes over asking these questions in that forum. You know what they'll get in the long run? Instead of answers, they'll get to be branded as the next looney tunes citizen activist who won't just sit down and shut up.

I agree with Mike and Wambo, if the media and the citizens start asking the right questions, the Mayor, the city manager as well as the council will have to attempt to explain themselves. There are many of us on this site that know the answers already, but I personally want these elected officials to answer these questions publicly, and not in a bunch of pre-scripted bs tv ads or newspaper quotes that they can hide behind.

I agree with Mike and Wambo, if the media and the citizens start asking the right questions, the Mayor, the city manager as well as the council will have to attempt to explain themselves. There are many of us on this site that know the answers already, but I personally want these elected officials to answer these questions publicly, and not in a bunch of pre-scripted bs tv ads or newspaper quotes that they can hide behind.


We want to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
No more lies, no more deception.

It still looks like they are up to their old tricks of overcharging the PSST for items for fire and police, purchasing the items for the going rate and funneling the overcharge back to the general fund. That is how the city gets their hands on the PSST money that is supposed to be earmarked for public safety.

Wambo, the reporter you need to question on this matter is the City Hall beat reporter, Bryan Dean.

Has the use tax been spent yet? Has it even been collected yet? Is there an announced location of where that money is going? If MAPS 3 hadn't passed would more firefighters and police officers be put on the streets? Is MAPS 3 completed and all of a sudden "lies" are being discovered?

Everyone else seems to be asking questions so I decided I would throw some out too...and just like everyone else...I'm not choosing sides...just asking questions here.

BTW I woke up to this Facebook message this morning, " 'A yes vote for maps will put more police and fire on the streets' Your dad is a liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yup, 28 exclamation points. 3 or 4 would have been good enough. So many accusations and no proof of anything...because collecting has only been going on for 13 days of the 2830 days total allotted. The budget cuts had nothing to do with Maps 3. Project 180 has nothing to do with Maps 3. Start pointing the finger at where it needs to be, the recession the entire globe is feeling...police and fire unions just happen to have a "Maps3" to blame it on.

Casey, I am sorry that happened. I'm sure you know that job takes big shoes and broad shoulders to do. Just words, don't let it bother you.

The budget cuts had nothing to do with Maps 3. Project 180 has nothing to do with Maps 3. Start pointing the finger at where it needs to be, the recession the entire globe is feeling...police and fire unions just happen to have a "Maps3" to blame it on.

See the see spot run version from earlier post.

No, maps3 had nothing to do with police or fire budget. But with a known issue, known shortage, all the public service was asking is why Maps3, we need other things first, why cant we help public services first?

Dont take anything personally. Your last name could be Cornett, Bush, Palin and not even related to them and the moonbats will STILL attack you, like you had something to do with it.

Casey, sorry that someone felt the need to blast you on facebook. Perhaps you shouldn't read these "opinion" posts if it troubles you. I promise any !!! will be kept to a min.

IMO- The Mayor floated the MAPS 3 vote on the backs of FF and PO by going on TV every half hour during the final days of the election and saying "A vote for Maps 3 will increase your fire and police protection". There is not one shred of written documentation that dedicates the use tax or any other funds toward this goal. Thus, the discussion of layoffs and cuts.
WOW!!! Go back and read the posts from the pre-maps elections. Many people have been trying to get that word out that OKC is not "recession proof" as touted in the magazines and we need to tighten the purse strings for a little while. Not buy champagne and caviar in hopes that the Great Gatsby will throw his next party in OKC.
Ask Dear Old Dad at the next sunday dinner why the city didn't accept the firefighters offer to give back the 1.4 % raise awarded by the arbitrator and roll over the contract last year? It has been offered back to them 3 times now. It was what the city asked for in the first place and now they don't want it? They would much rather drag it out in court.

Let me start by saying that your dad seems to be a likeable person. But, that doesn't change what I see as some basic facts.


If MAPS 3 hadn't passed would more firefighters and police officers be put on the streets?
This has nothing to do with what your dad said. What the future holds is anybodys guess. Let's deal with what we know at this moment. What seems certain is that MAPS 3 passed and we're preparing to close firestations and layoff manpower in both the police and fire departments. That runs completely contrary to what the mayor said in those commercials.


BTW I woke up to this Facebook message this morning, " 'A yes vote for maps will put more police and fire on the streets' Your dad is a liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Who ever sent you this is a classless buffoon. I don't think anyone here condones it.


So many accusations and no proof of anything...because collecting has only been going on for 13 days of the 2830 days total allotted.
The proof is that the council has already told your father that he made those promises, not them. You need to go back and watch the council meeting where the mayor says "We need to discuss using the use tax to hire more public safety employees". When asked why, he says "Because that's what we promised." He is then informed by councilman White that "You made those promises, not this council". He is also informed that maybe the chamber of commerce would like to help him keep those promises.
So this leaves us with two possible scenarios. (A) He honestly,after two terms in office, had no idea he needed the councils approval to make these promises, or (B) he knew he needed the councils approval and made the statements anyway, without regard for their truthfulness, to further his agenda. Either way he doesn't come out looking so good.


The budget cuts had nothing to do with Maps 3.
The mayor is the one who tied MAPS3 to saving manpower. Nobody else. Does he regret now that he made those statements? I have to guess he probably does.


Start pointing the finger at where it needs to be, the recession the entire globe is feeling...police and fire unions just happen to have a "Maps3" to blame it on.
I'm pretty sure that's the point that police and fire were trying to make. That with the looming budget crunch, maybe it was the wrong time to tie up tax dollars in this way.
We're not blaming it on MAPS3. The budget director says he made the mayor, city manager and city council aware of the coming problems many months before the election, almost a year, and they either ignored his warnings or tried to keep them quiet until after the election.

While I totally disagree with cuts to Police/Fire, without MAPS and if the City had done nothing to improve the quality of life in this Great City, the proposed or possible cuts would definitely have been much deeper.

"A yes vote puts more police and fire jobs out on the streets"
I'll be as interested as anybody to hear how this is addressed. So now here's the question, with this in mind, and I'm not taking sides here, does this cause some to question the mayor's other promises relating to MAPS 3?
- He has promised a fair and open selection process for a convention center.
- He has promised the projects on the council resolution on MAPS 3 will be built as listed.
- He has promised the MAPS 3 oversight board will be given independence to review and make recommendations relating to the projects.

These are exactly the questions I ask myself. A lot of MAPS 3 is based on trust that officials will do what they SAY they will do, with little to no consequences for breaking those pledges. They can smile and deflect the blame, but it's hard to have complete faith when statements like those from Mayor Cornett's were cut and dried with little wiggle room. When someone looks you in the eye and says, "With X - Y WILL HAPPEN," and in fact, the opposite occurs, it gives me pause.

These are exactly the questions I ask myself. A lot of MAPS 3 is based on trust that officials will do what they SAY they will do, with little to no consequences for breaking those pledges. They can smile and deflect the blame, but it's hard to have complete faith when statements like those from Mayor Cornett's were cut and dried with little wiggle room. When someone looks you in the eye and says, "With X - Y WILL HAPPEN," and in fact, the opposite occurs, it gives me pause.

I have to think more people than you would be asking the same questions if only the news media would cover it with the same zeal they covered the campaign. Thanks to Fox25 and KOCO some questions are being asked. They seem to be the right questions, if the uncomfortable look on the mayors face means anything. Maybe the DOK and the other two stations will catch up next month. I won't be holding my breath.

PS biggest PR nightmare -

if it turns out the general populace truly isn't concerned about the proposed cuts


Not saying that this will happen.
Not saying it would be anything short of horridly short-sighted if it happens.

But, given the long running city budget perception, and the constant reports for months of continuing budget woes at state level and beyond, it could happen. Compared to other shortages out there, a 8-12% cut doesn't sound that terrible, even when it is a deep cut. The nature of bad news that isn't as bad as other news that came before it.

Luck with it all.

Kevinpate, how do you think a district court order requiring the manpower not drop below 948 personnel affect things?

An update, currently as of today the city has lowered the amount that was going to be cut from the fire department budget from $9,000,000.00 to 2,850,000.00. This is better news, we still are hoping that sales tax reciepts continue to rise.

An update, currently as of today the city has lowered the amount that was going to be cut from the fire department budget from $9,000,000.00 to 2,850,000.00. This is better news, we still are hoping that sales tax reciepts continue to rise.

That is good news and, while I'm not familiar with what prompted this decision, it sounds like the city is not just "out to get the fire department" as some on here seem to think. It sounds like they will make adjustments based on current situations.

This is also what the police department has heard. With this, they will be able to adjust without removing officers.

That is good news and, while I'm not familiar with what prompted this decision, it sounds like the city is not just "out to get the fire department" as some on here seem to think. It sounds like they will make adjustments based on current situations.This has nothing to do with the idea that some of us on here think that the City is only "out to get" the Fire Department. It has to do with the fact that some of us on here are Firefighters, both active and retired. Therefore our concerns are related to, and we are more vocal about, Fire issues, nothing more, nothing less.

This has nothing to do with the idea that some of us on here think that the City is only "out to get" the Fire Department. It has to do with the fact that some of us on here are Firefighters, both active and retired. Therefore our concerns are related to, and we are more vocal about, Fire issues, nothing more, nothing less.

Andy, that may be true but to those of us not personally involved it sounds that way sometimes.

The Fire chief has required the last class of firefighters to attend a meeting today. This meeting is to inform them of their impending termination.

Is this a last in, first out thing where seniority, not skill or achievement, determines who stays or goes?

Is this a last in, first out thing where seniority, not skill or achievement, determines who stays or goes?

Yes. But you already knew that didn't you?

Is this a last in, first out thing where seniority, not skill or achievement, determines who stays or goes?

Nothing new, this is a Union issue, not fair, but it is what it is. I dealt with this issue many time involvng AFSCME Employees.

Wow Steve, I was told to be careful in discussions with you. It is not hard to see where you stand. Of course, this is an opinion board. That was a nice dagger you threw!

Not a dagger... just asking questions. People hate questions. I'm actually quite likable when you get to know me. I know of some folks who are very frustrated with these rules in Tulsa, and was asking if it were true here as well. Maybe I should quit asking questions. Nobody seems to like them on this site.

Steve, keep asking the questions!

Steve, keep asking the questions!

Yes Steve, please keep asking questions. Even the ones you know the answers to in advance. How about asking them of both sides while your at it.

Why don't you tell us the layoff methods used by the DOK recently during their last round of layoffs. Did seniority and experience count for nothing there? Was the staff of the DOK all of a sudden 15-20 years younger across the board? Did getting rid of the more experienced people extend into upper management or was it just for the average working stiff? Have you always been such a fan of youth over experience? Are you going to be such a fan of this retention methodology when you're another 10 years into the job? See, you're not the only one who likes to ask questions.

Honestly Wambo - I really didn't know if this were true with OCFD - and that's why I was asking. And it's been my experience in the private sector that employees close to retirement were given the option to go for early retirement first, and then the employees with poor performance records were then the first ones cut. Maybe I should go back to the Bricktown thread and discuss retail with Metro.

Not a dagger... just asking questions. People hate questions. I'm actually quite likable when you get to know me. I know of some folks who are very frustrated with these rules in Tulsa, and was asking if it were true here as well. Maybe I should quit asking questions. Nobody seems to like them on this site.

No, not a dagger, just a slanted question meant to imply your opinion.

Exactly what rules are people very frustrated with in Tulsa?

I have no doubt you're a regular teddy bear when one gets to know you. Most of us are. We're just a little protective of what we consider to be our interests.

I hear you. There are some teachers in Tulsa, good ones, about to lose their jobs simply because they're new, and they can tell horror stories about veteran teachers who are protected simply because they've been around a long time.

My wife is a school teacher and she feels the same way. She has seen some good teachers let go when they can't make room for them. It's a difficult situation that doesn't have an easy answer. Teaching is a profession that can really wear you down if you let it. You have to love what you're doing or it'll end up showing in your performance. She's been teaching for 23 years and is still a yearly candidate for teacher of the year. She loves it but it's not easy by any means.

I know you'd rather be here than dicsussing bricktown retail with metro.

Why can't the bad employees be fired or put in front on the lines for lay-offs? This is something I've never understood, and seriously, I'm interested in what you've got to say, and I'll listen with an open mind. But with lay-offs looming, it seems like now is as good a time as any to get a better understanding of what's behind this sort of process.

In our line of work we are all put through a very rigorous line of training that is not optional. It is put on all of us equally so we know the man or woman next to us has passed the same training and has the same basic qualifications. Poor job performance evaluations are used to build a case for termination at the time, not put in a file waiting for layoffs. We've never had layoffs before so I can't really tell you anything about the process except that it is addressed in our contract and is based on seniority. We all know the process but none of us has ever seen it in practice. Seeing as poor job performance is usually addressed at the time it occurs and is either rectified or carried on to the next step, it doesn't really figure into the process.

That makes sense - and I can see what you mean in terms of going into an unusual situation in terms of public safety layoffs.
Care to discuss Bricktown retail now? (I kid! I kid!)

Yeah, I've been reading that thread. Interesting opinions.

I'll be very curious to see if the city continues to subsidize the river boats and engage in other expenditures like that if it goes through with public safety layoffs.
(uh-oh... might have just p-ssed-off another group)

I wouldn't worry about it. People get over it pretty quick with a little honest discussion. I really want to see if they continue along the layoff path while the mayor keeps insisting it's not going to happen. Did you happen to see him on ch.9 news last night? He was saying that not only would there be no layoffs, but they were going to hire more FF's. I really don't know what to think.

Didn't see that report. Intriguing. There's an item on the council docket tonight - apparently the May 11th contract election is canceled, but since I'm not covering all this, I'm just an avg guy trying to figure this whole thing out. Looks like city staff and/or council is not happy with the ballot that they feel was being forced on them.

After doing a little research, it appears they never filed for an election with the election board. They claimed to. That's pretty interesting. Did they ever intend to have the election or was it just a negotiation ploy? That seems to be the line of disconnect that we have with the city. Either the right hand doesn't know what the left hands doing, or they are working in unison to keep everyone confused.