you guys should search for "conference of mayors" in Twitter. You can get an idea of the nation's mayors attending and how they feel about coming to OKC.

you can also search the tag #USCM10

Spartan, bite me!

If you don't care about down town OKC because you can do everything you need or want in the burbs or where ever else then what is taking place downtown shouldn't matter to you.

Since you don't care and don't plan to enjoy what is going on there then why even post here since it is of no interest to you?

Just live your life in the burbs and forget about it... I however suspect that would be way to hopeful on my part! :boxing2:

Yes, you are correct that is way to hopeful on your part. lol
Especially when my tax dollars are going in part to bank roll this area of the city. I guess that you could say, I pay my part so i get to put my 2 cents in like the rest of the do-gooders.

LOL, this is awesome. Seriously, this is funny and spot on.

This is hilarious, it doesnt take much to stir this pot. You guys are way to easy. lol

Glad to see that your cage is getting rattled BOBtheBuilder, just kidding there (LOL). I believe this will be good for OKC and bring in $$$$ and recognition for the city! If you do not want to see progress or growth in your city then maybe a forward thinking city is not for you! Remember Bob MAPS 4 is just around the corner! (lol).

I'll bet if WalMart built a giant Super Center and WalMart World Museum in Bricktown Bobthebuilder would be all over it and the city couldn't keep him out of Bricktown. I saw his kind in Gatlinburg when the Dukes of Hazzard Museum opened. The line was 3 blocks long an hour before opening.

I dont recall ever asking anyone to come in here and try to revitalize the downtown area anyway.

That is nice that they have an entertainment district, there is not a whole lot downtown that I cant get in other areas of the city without the headache of parking, transients, and being densely populated.

It just seems that all of the do-gooders from out of state, whether you are young or old, with your multitude of self proclaimed knowledge and or opinions in building and planning, are pushing your the way of life where you used to live at down the throats of people who are life long residents of this city.

If where you lived at was so great, then why didnt you just stay there, which ever big league city that was.

Sorry but most of us are lifelong residents of OKC as well. Sounds like what you're wanting to live in is Weatherford.

Sorry but most of us are lifelong residents of OKC as well. Sounds like what you're wanting to live in is Weatherford.

I wonder why BOBTHEBUILDER even participates on this forum. Perhaps he's trying to represent the voices of those for whom progress of any kind is a frightening prospect.

I wonder why BOBTHEBUILDER even participates on this forum. Perhaps he's trying to represent the voices of those for whom progress of any kind is a frightening prospect.

Obviously my participation on this forum is not welcomed by some members, since it goes against the grain. ( I am probably going to lose some sleep over this, ok maybe not ). I am not about to jump on the bandwagon of the urban yuppy movement. I am all for development, but responsible development, which I think that we dont have a lot of in OKC. That is my opinion I am going to leave it that.

Now, I am going to comb my mullitt, get my John Deere ballcap, brush my billybob teeth, take my hunting dawg, load up in my crew cab dually and head to town to tractor supply and walmart. Whoops, gotta get that damn remote for the entry gate to the addition, man I hate modern technology.
Yall have a wunderfool day, ya hear

You people are pretty funny, I will tell you that BOBTHEBUILDER is in fact, a home builder. He has a degree from OU and could buy and sell most of you on here. Really funny to hear you try to run him down as a redneck. Just goes to show, you never really know who you are talking to on here!

Secretary Sebellius to speak on "Childhood Obesity" today, and conference participants and their families expected to spend over a million dollars this weekend on lodging, food, transportation and all the other lil goodies in Bricktown.

Secretary Sebellius to speak on "Childhood Obesity" today, and conference participants and their families expected to spend over a million dollars this weekend on lodging, food, transportation and all the other lil goodies in Bricktown.

Thats awesome. Good stuff.

Obviously my participation on this forum is not welcomed by some members, since it goes against the grain.

Being an ignorant, moronic, myopic butthead isn't "going against the grain." It's just called being an ignorant, moronic, myopic butthead, and nothing else.


You people are pretty funny, I will tell you that BOBTHEBUILDER is in fact, a home builder. He has a degree from OU and could buy and sell most of you on here. Really funny to hear you try to run him down as a redneck. Just goes to show, you never really know who you are talking to on here!

Well it makes perfect sense that BOBTHEBUILDER is a home builder. I want to thank you, Bob, The Builder, for building your ****ty tract houses that meet the bare minimum building code standards established in communities across the metro for tract housing. If it weren't for you, OKC might be something other than a lifeless sprawl cesspool devoid of the same level of culture found in similarly sized cities. If it weren't for you children growing up in the inner city would be on equal footing as children growing up elsewhere around the country and would have the same opportunity for a better life. If it weren't for you OKC might not be in danger of massive EPA fines and 70% of our lakes and streams in OKC wouldn't be polluted. If it weren't for sorry scumbags like you the taxpayers wouldn't be forced to line the pockets of the highway builders for $100+ million a mile freeway projects like I-40 and all the other crappy highways out to the suburbs. Which you know, that's vital because we gotta keep forking our money over to the oil companies and the other terrorists that want to destroy the U.S., whether they be Islamic extremists or oil conglomerates. If it weren't for you we would have a more condensed and efficient city structure and wouldn't constantly have resources going towards new roads, sewer lines, power lines, water lines, other infrastructure, police and fire service, new schools..we'd have more money to make what we have better or perhaps even up to par with the rest of the nation. Who knows, if it weren't for you, the state likely wouldn't be bankrupt right now either.

Most of all I want to thank you and other homebuilders for ruining my city and displacing thousands and thousands of farmers and other rural folk just to make a quick buck. I understand it is so much easier to build crap and turn around and sell it than it is to actually build anything of lasting value that anyone will fight to save 100 years from now. Thanks for all you do to make OKC a crappier place and get rich at the same time. You wouldn't know responsible development even if you lived in it.

/end rant

You people are pretty funny, I will tell you that BOBTHEBUILDER is in fact, a home builder. He has a degree from OU and could buy and sell most of you on here. Really funny to hear you try to run him down as a redneck. Just goes to show, you never really know who you are talking to on here!

Thanks for the defense, but no need, Im just ruffling some morning feathers. lol. Its all good. Have a good one.

Well it makes perfect sense that BOBTHEBUILDER is a home builder. I want to thank you, Bob, The Builder, for building your ****ty tract houses that meet the bare minimum building code standards established in communities across the metro for tract housing. If it weren't for you, OKC might be something other than a lifeless sprawl cesspool devoid of the same level of culture found in similarly sized cities. If it weren't for you children growing up in the inner city would be on equal footing as children growing up elsewhere around the country and would have the same opportunity for a better life. If it weren't for you OKC might not be in danger of massive EPA fines and 70% of our lakes and streams in OKC wouldn't be polluted. If it weren't for sorry scumbags like you the taxpayers wouldn't be forced to line the pockets of the highway builders for $100+ million a mile freeway projects like I-40 and all the other crappy highways out to the suburbs. If it weren't for you we would have a more condensed and efficient city structure and wouldn't constantly have resources going towards new roads, sewer lines, power lines, water lines, other infrastructure, police and fire service, new schools..we'd have more money to make what we have better or perhaps even up to par with the rest of the nation. Who knows, if it weren't for you, the state likely wouldn't be bankrupt right now either.

Most of all I want to thank you and other homebuilders for ruining my community just to make a quick buck. I understand it is so much easier to build crap and turn around and sell it than it is to actually build anything of lasting value that anyone will fight to save 100 years from now. Thanks for all you do to make OKC a crappier place and get rich at the same time.

Wow, all of those words grouped together to form sentences, and you sound rather angry. Do you actually believe all of those things, always blaming someone else for problems. I am thinking that you may be hard pressed to afford the housing that I am referring too, if at all and its far from tract housing. I do happen to agree with you on the tract housing issue.

Make no mistake, the population has been moving from the center of the city for 100 years, the more population that you have the farther away that you move. Until you run, into natural barriers such as a river and the like.

So let me get this right, you are suggesting that we have 1 million people in the metro all live downtown area, so we wouldnt have to fund infrastructure elsewhere in the city. There is no way possible that will ever happen.

Spartan, wow, nice rant. Oh by the way your an idiot! I guess you weren't able to get qualified for a loan. Is that why your so mad? And again, bite me!

Pretty good link with details about OKC. USCM 2010 (http://www.uscm2010.com/media.php)

Spartan, wow, nice rant. Oh by the way your an idiot! I guess you weren't able to get qualified for a loan. Is that why your so mad? And again, bite me!

I always love it, when in the process of calling someone else an idiot, people prove just how dumb they are. "Your an idiot." Nice.

Wow Spartan, that was some pent up rage that has been waiting for the right moment! Might have been a little lopsided in your assumption without knowing what and where "BOB" builds. But your points are valid, except for maybe the crosstown, which is not so much a route that was paved to support the burbs outward expansion so much as it is a necessary key infrastructure improvement through the city, that is replacing a desparate set of hazardous elevated highway that is heading for disaster.

Now as it relates to the new proposed Blvd, I could care less and think that we may not even need it. Like was posted elsewhere on this forum I too would like to see more effective utilization and improvements to the existing Blvds that we have which have real potential, and would spur infil and other needed development.

I would rather invite BOB to show us what would be his definition of responsible development, since that is what he touted was the need that he was all for. What to you would that look like and how would that be defined by you?

Then if responsible development is what you are after, then the welcome mat is out and I would invite you to put some of that wealth into action.

Despite where "Bob" builds, I think Spartan's point of none of the current builders are building anything that will be worth saving in 100 years. Maybe Bob can show us some of his "fine workmanship" and "responsible development."

stay on topic guys

stay on topic guys

that'd be good....I've yet to see one on-topic reply on this last, most current page...you guys, politics is no less than the crucifixion of the truth...find some common ground or go...I'd advise....
the us conference of mayors...hell, I can't even believe I bothered...the topic calls for a bit of education in current events....huh?

CNBC will be interviewing some of the mayors attending the conference. Maybe along the way there will be good comments made about Oklahoma City.

So let me get this right, you are suggesting that we have 1 million people in the metro all live downtown area, so we wouldnt have to fund infrastructure elsewhere in the city. There is no way possible that will ever happen.

I hate to stay off topic but cities all over the world have populations equal to or great than OKC and do it in a fraction of the size. All those pipes, telephone wires, cable wires, cell towers, water lines, pavement, etc don't get there for free and it all has to be maintained. We are building cities we won't be able to maintain (hey what do you - I stayed on topic after all).

It really doesn't matter how much money you have, ignorance is always free.

King183, let me fix that, "yer an idiot!" is that better?

Wow, Spartan, that is one of the best rants I've seen on OKCTalk! Well done. It now obviously makes sense why BOBTHEBUILDER is on here, advocating the continuation of disastrous city planning efforts and ill-conceived development ideas: if OKC Talk were successful in directing better use of land and more density, it might hit BOBTHEBUILDER in his pocketbook! We couldn't have that, now, could we?

So let me get this right, you are suggesting that we have 1 million people in the metro all live downtown area, so we wouldnt have to fund infrastructure elsewhere in the city. There is no way possible that will ever happen.

That's not what he's saying Bob. Obviously you have the wit to deteriorate board member's attitudes on this whole off-topic at hand so I'm sure you're able to grasp the concept of his rant also. Yes, it is natural for cities to spread outwards but the more sustainable and successful cities spread upwards also. Something that Oklahoma City has failed to do. No one want all of Greater Oklahoma City's population to live downtown; that's such an immature way of going about a comeback really. But regardless, the expediated sprawl of this city comes with harsh consequences. A solution to that problem may be condensing city limits into something that's much more manageable and captures urban development and not rural acres like so much of OKC's current land encompasses. The money that OKC spends on infrastructure alone is phenomenal and incredibly wasteful at that. Especially when compared to the thought of how much more efficient this community could become if efforts were made to concentrate the future population into something maybe a bit bigger than the current urbanized area. This would allow for a budget that can more than adequately take care of the city's needs while also encouraging smart planning, a revitalized core, and still a large portion of suburbia for all the suburbanites to eat their perfect hearts out. Is this agreeable with?

Oh and Mike. Financial "fitness" will put no one on a pedestal here I'm afraid. Besides, I doubt buying us would do anyone any good. That'd be the worst investment you will have made; we would make sure of that. ;P

Wow, Spartan, that is one of the best rants I've seen on OKCTalk! Well done. It now obviously makes sense why BOBTHEBUILDER is on here, advocating the continuation of disastrous city planning efforts and ill-conceived development ideas: if OKC Talk were successful in directing better use of land and more density, it might hit BOBTHEBUILDER in his pocketbook! We couldn't have that, now, could we?

Yes Spartan that was an excellent rant, too bad you missed your target, save that for the tract home builders. lol But you sure sounded good.

Soonerguru, I am merely on here to make the statement that not everyone wants to live downtown in studio apts in a high paced rat race, much less drive a toyota prius or ride a bicycle to work.

I personally stay away from downtown as much as possible due to the lack of parking, the transients, and the overall congestion. If that is the lifestyle that you guys want then pay for it yourselves and quit whining because developers are slow to follow your wishes and spend a small fortune to renovate delapidated buildings into housing for you guys. If you guys want to get in the development business, feel free to bankroll your projects yourselves or secure your financing through the banking industry like everyone else does and proceed. It may just be me, but I really dont like the prospect of having neighbors living on top of me as well as under me. To each their own.

I dont suppose any time soon they are going to have acreage additions with 5000 to 10000 sq ft. houses anywhere downtown are they, lol.
Didnt think so.

Soonerguru, I am merely on here to make the statement that not everyone wants to live downtown in studio apts in a high paced rat race, much less drive a toyota prius or ride a bicycle to work.

I personally stay away from downtown as much as possible due to the lack of parking, the transients, and the overall congestion. If that is the lifestyle that you guys want then pay for it yourselves and quit whining because developers are slow to follow your wishes and spend a small fortune to renovate delapidated buildings into housing for you guys. If you guys want to get in the development business, feel free to bankroll your projects yourselves or secure your financing through the banking industry like everyone else does and proceed. It may just be me, but I really dont like the prospect of having neighbors living on top of me as well as under me. To each their own.

As someone who has plenty of parking, rarely sees a transient in my neighborhood (probably as many unidentified "suspicious" characters strolling down the streets in Nichols Hills - especially at night- as downtown), is married to someone who drives a Prius and has on one occasion ridden a bicycle to work, I actually agree with you. Personally, I love living close to other people, and I talk to my neighbors. We don't have fences so we actually see each other and carry on friendly conversations. When I lived on one of those acreages in a big house I never saw my neighbors and I like this better. But, it is true that we really should only hope developers will want to build downtown, and if we want to make it happen, we probably should do it ourselves. I would love to see Bricktown and the surrounds (my neighborhood) with more housing and more people living there, but it's not an inalienable right to have neighbors and development. It has to be profitable for the developers. People want low cost high quality housing and that's a difficult combination. It's even more difficult with renovation than new construction. So, we can wish, but unless we are willing or able to do it ourselves, that's pretty much all we can do.

Where I disagree with you is your stated objection to using tax dollars to improve our downtown. Even when I didn't live here, I was a big fan of donating a few pennies a day to build amenities for our citizens. I've yet to miss those pennies, and if you're as successful a builder as you're implying, you shouldn't either. A better city benefits us all, and I'm sure we'll impress some of our visitors this week (back on topic) with what we've created with those pennies.

That's not what he's saying Bob. Obviously you have the wit to deteriorate board member's attitudes on this whole off-topic at hand so I'm sure you're able to grasp the concept of his rant also. Yes, it is natural for cities to spread outwards but the more sustainable and successful cities spread upwards also. Something that Oklahoma City has failed to do. No one want all of Greater Oklahoma City's population to live downtown; that's such an immature way of going about a comeback really. But regardless, the expediated sprawl of this city comes with harsh consequences. A solution to that problem may be condensing city limits into something that's much more manageable and captures urban development and not rural acres like so much of OKC's current land encompasses. The money that OKC spends on infrastructure alone is phenomenal and incredibly wasteful at that. Especially when compared to the thought of how much more efficient this community could become if efforts were made to concentrate the future population into something maybe a bit bigger than the current urbanized area. This would allow for a budget that can more than adequately take care of the city's needs while also encouraging smart planning, a revitalized core, and still a large portion of suburbia for all the suburbanites to eat their perfect hearts out. Is this agreeable with?

Oh and Mike. Financial "fitness" will put no one on a pedestal here I'm afraid. Besides, I doubt buying us would do anyone any good. That'd be the worst investment you will have made; we would make sure of that. ;P

Architect,

You seem like a pretty intelligent guy.

Here are some things to think about with infrastructure.

Any sewage, storm drains and water lines are paid for and placed by the developers, to the specifications that the city provides in developments.
The city does not pay for these things.
The utilities are paid for by the developers not the city.
Many of the rural settings, water lines are ran a great distance at the expense of the development, not the city.

The city is paid monthly for trash service, water, drainage, and sewage service. They are not providing these services for free.

The city is responsible for providing adequate police and fire protection.
The city is responsible for providing street maint, line maint. and traffic cont.
The city is responsible for the mowing of the right of way and maintaining the parks, lakes, and the like.

I personally think that the city has plenty of tax revenue to conduct business as it needs to regardless of the urban development philosophy.

I think that the majority of the wealth in OKC is in the outer ring. OKC has to do a better job of keeping these large amounts of tax dollars in OKC, to help other areas of the city in the long term. Ex. Warren theatre supposed to be built on Memorial, equates into OKC tax dollars, takes away from Warren theatre in Moore. There are people that drive 40 miles one way to go to that theatre, its atmosphere, will be nice to have that in OKC. Another ex. the new Crest on the southside, that place will be a gold mine for tax revenue, it will take a lot of business from Walmart in Moore, Newcastle, Mustang, OKC, all of that tax revenue will be coming to OKC. We have to capitalize on the lost tax revenue that OKC loses to surrounding cities daily because they are closer to the money so to speak.

The last year tax revenue has been down, so we have all to tighten our belts a bit, but we are on the way back up, people are spending money again and building. Tax revenues are coming up as well. Sorry kinda got off track a bit, but it just blows my mind that people dont understand this.

thats my 2 cents, sorry, you guys get back on topic

Sorry, can't get back on topic just yet as I am late to this thread. I lmao at the contrived "little bitchy drama queen act" that Spartan performed, then laughed further at the dweeb like posters that came forth to compliment him on it. This forum is really special and I want to thank all of you that have been here awhile for the comedy. By the way, if you read real closely and have any comprehension at all, I did not call any one a name.

Hey, I know I probably just lost some of my credibility right there, but it needed to be said. Everyone on here knows what side of debates I fall on. Downtown is not just a pet project. Downtown has the potential to be a sustainable, viable community and that is a resource that we're not tapping. I'm not talking about MAPS projects downtown, I'm talking about people actually living, shopping, working, playing, praying, and more--downtown.

It's true, I don't know what kind of homebuilder you are, Bob. But just about every homebuilder likes to insist that he is an above average homebuilder and that his homes are special. They like to talk about sustainability and I've seen a few even suggest the urban design aspects of their NW 200+ Street tract homes. Facts are facts and realities are realities. Just because your rhetoric makes a tract home sound like this:
http://media.officenewswire.com/images/thumbs/2009.06.07revitDallas.davidbaker,partners%20archit ects%20fletcher%20studio.jpg
...doesn't make it so.

Jeff Click Homes - About - New Homes Edmond - New Homes Oklahoma City - Unique - Contemporary - Energy Efficient - Edmond Builder - Oklahoma City Builder (http://www.jeffclickhomes.com/about)

Energy | Ideal Homes | Oklahoma's Leading Homebuilder (http://www.ideal-homes.com/energy/)
"We're leading the way in innovation. Ideal Homes was the first builder in America to build affordable Energy Star homes. We built the first affordable Zero Energy home in America, and we built the first LEED-certified home in America. We also built the first NAHB Green Certified home in Oklahoma. To us, energy efficiency isn't a trend it's the fiber of our company."

Yes, Ideal Homes. Who have blanketed the metro with this:
http://image.americanhomeguides.com/metro/nho/community/homesnationalbusiness/018281_elev11.jpg

Sparty, I don't know why you're pointing fingers at the home builders because if you've never owned or built a home you have no idea what goes into the construction of these homes. These are truly quality built energy efficient homes. Better so than old frame houses in Midtown and other urban areas. What's wrong with these builder's building homes for people that want them who choose to live in the suburbs? They aren't encroaching upon downtown since you seemed to be focused on that area. You seem pretty pissed off about something but you're pushing the blame on the wrong person. You need to be mad at the people of Oklahoma City for choosing to live in the suburbs. You can't choose where people live. I would love to live downtown but I choose to live elsewhere. You can't be pissed off at people like me because we aren't populating downtown. Yes, downtown has potential as you say, but are you doing your part to live, work, play, pray, etc. in downtown where the U.S. Conference of Mayors is currently being held?

Spartan. Nice that your finally pointing a finger in the right direction. I would rent before I lived in an Ideal home. For that matter any of the mass produced companies. They are crap, yet they allow for homeownership. Personally I wouldn't deal with anyone who hides behind a fancy name. Wether it is a plumber or builder, people who use their name seem to have a sense of pride. Hey, how about those mayors?

http://media.officenewswire.com/images/thumbs/2009.06.07revitDallas.davidbaker,partners%20archit ects%20fletcher%20studio.jpg
...doesn't make it so.



I'm sorry but that looks like a twister has already hit it and turned into a twisted mass. Reminded me of the pic that was in the paper where the twister had turned a cell phone tower into what more closely resembled a roller coaster track.

Thankfully the Obama did not besmirch the city of OKC with a visit.

Facts are facts and realities are realities.

Jeff Click Homes - About - New Homes Edmond - New Homes Oklahoma City - Unique - Contemporary - Energy Efficient - Edmond Builder - Oklahoma City Builder (http://www.jeffclickhomes.com/about)

...I've seen a few even suggest the urban design aspects of their NW 200+ Street tract homes.



Spartan, I'm not sure how I've found myself under your bus. While I generally prefer to participate on-topic, I'd like to address your tangent.

If your intent is, as you said, to remain true to facts, let's do that, beginning with the fact that I don't build "NW 200+". Additionally, I do more than suggest urban design aspects...I actually implement them. But I do so with a clear and playful reference in my marketing that it's in a suburban setting (see Walnut bridge billboard and/or downtown magazine).

Urban design aspects can mean many things, and currently in my case, it's more in reference to interior design style. My exterior elevations are evolving in that direction, but they still have to be compatible among other single-family designs. A true urban style, in the sense I believe you're envisioning, is difficult to do without involving an elevator to help people get to their front doors. Don't get me wrong; multi-family and mixed use, or even single-family downtown, isn't something I'm opposed to...in fact, I'm a big fan of true urban development...I'm just not doing it. Yet.

Either way, I must be doing something right, as many of my clients shop downtown housing as well, and end up opting for what I'm offering...and I'm busier than I've ever been.

Regarding sustainability, I do build a fully ENERGY STAR (sorry for the caps, that's how it's supposed to be referenced) line of homes, but those aren't where you linked. Those are at HelloModern.com.

I might add that these homes are 40% more energy efficient than what code requires and while not necessarily LEED, or as sustainable in the Green sense as they could be, they are indeed sustainable in the sense that they are built to last and to last affordably.

Did I mention that they're also priced at $150-180K? Show me where you can find anything remotely comparable in downtown.

Price is probably the biggest reason that sprawl continues, and the fact that many people want new homes. If somehow developers (with city help?) could find ways to build new houses in existing inner city neighborhoods and still offer these houses, with 3 bd/2 ba and garage, for under 200K then I think there would be a major urban renaissance in the older neighborhoods around downtown. These homes could easily be built to blend in with their older counterparts with front porches, garages to the side, and similar scale/materials.

Price is probably the biggest reason that sprawl continues, and the fact that many people want new homes. If somehow developers (with city help?) could find ways to build new houses in existing inner city neighborhoods and still offer these houses, with 3 bd/2 ba and garage, for under 200K then I think there would be a major urban renaissance in the older neighborhoods around downtown. These homes could easily be built to blend in with their older counterparts with front porches, garages to the side, and similar scale/materials.

Price is a factor but quality of schools, safety, crime and age of homes are also factors. The fix and flip and the "teardown" trends seen in some other large cities hasn't hit OKC yet. Until home prices in urban OKC go higher or gasoline goes significantly higher, I doubt you will see a huge amount of redevelopment in urban OKC. We haven't had that "trigger" yet.

So Jeff, as a builder, you are uniquely able to tell us if you can build more cheaply on the edge of the city as opposed to downtown, or if you think you could build downtown for around the same price. That would be a very interesting piece of information and I'd love to hear your take on that.

However, I would like to argue that people who look downtown but choose one of your houses are choosing an urban look over an urban lifestyle, and perhaps they constitute a group that is different from those who ultimately choose to live downtown.