View Full Version : Ladder Trucks



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andy157
04-24-2010, 06:14 PM
But will be returned---you seem to forget that fact.No, you assume that I forgot that fact. That fact was irrelevant as it pertained to my statement. The M4K use tax should not have been used to fund Fire rigs to begin with, whether it will be paid back or not isn't the issue here.

Mikemarsh51
04-24-2010, 10:22 PM
There is a glaring point here. That funds that were in place to fund badly needed fire dept. vehicles. The funds were diverted to fund hockey improvements. That fact blows a huge hole in Mayor Cornetts statements that "public safety is our number 1 priority."

kevinpate
04-25-2010, 10:04 AM
There is a glaring point here. That funds that were in place to fund badly needed fire dept. vehicles. The funds were diverted to fund hockey improvements. That fact blows a huge hole in Mayor Cornetts statements that "public safety is our number 1 priority."

FWIW, another funding source was utilized and those funds were then used to proceed with this particular replacement ladder vehicle.

That took several weeks, and that's longer than it should have taken, in my opinion, but at least OKC fathers did see the need for the purchase to proceed rather than delay it further.

I agree it would be more impressive if there had been no delay, and still more impressive if more than one truck was already on order.

Larry OKC
04-25-2010, 04:22 PM
FWIW, another funding source was utilized and those funds were then used to proceed with this particular replacement ladder vehicle.

...

Do you happen to have a link or know which source of funds was used? Know the City has a myriad of different funds but one has to wonder if they had the funds elsewhere anyway, why divert ones that had already been earmarked for public safety?

andy157
04-25-2010, 07:45 PM
Do you happen to have a link or know which source of funds was used? Know the City has a myriad of different funds but one has to wonder if they had the funds elsewhere anyway, why divert ones that had already been earmarked for public safety?

No link, and this probably does not answer your question. Nevertheless, if your curious, I have provided the documents and the page numbers for reference to show the (Fire) history regarding the City and School Capital Projects (M4KIDS) Use Tax Fund dealing with Fire apparatus and Fire passenger vehicle replacement for the OCFD.

FY/09-10 Adopted Budget (page 420): A total of $12,549,820. was budgeted from the City and School Capital Projects (M4KIDS)Use Tax Fund for OCFD Fire apparatus and Fire passenger vehicle replacement projects.

The breakdown of the $12,549,820. can be found on(page 507). For Fire apparatus the budget was $10,777,820.,for Fire passenger vehicles the budget was $472,000. The remaining $1,300,000. was to repair/remodel/rebuild Fire Station #7.

The same information for FY/08-09 can be found on pages 326, 406 and 407. It appears there was a $1,300,000. amended increase from $6,629,846 t0 $7,929,846. in FY/08-09. For FY/07-08 see pages 328, 405 and 406. In FY/07-08 they budgeted $3,052,347. but only spent $129,226. of that amount.

kevinpate
04-25-2010, 07:55 PM
Larry, no, I do not have a link. I may even be incorrect. However, a different funding source is the only answer that is logical. If the funds came from the same source, there would have been no logic to delay the purchase of a needed PS ladder truck and shift those funds over to be loaned. If it was the same source, the truck would (seemingly) never have been on the table. thus I presume the funds came from a different pot as the truck was again green-lighted.

From reports here, it sounds like more trucks are currently needed to replace aged or otherwise deficient equipment. I hope that also gets addressed well before someone regrets it not being addressed.

I'm an acknowledged outsider, but have friends in the metro. I prefer they be safe.

Mikemarsh51
04-25-2010, 09:42 PM
Kevinpate, there is a fact you have missed. There original bid was for 4 ladder trucks. Yes we got one ordered. We still have only 6 of 13 functioning as aerial devices. That controversy has fallen by the wayside.

andy157
04-25-2010, 11:42 PM
Larry, no, I do not have a link. I may even be incorrect. However, a different funding source is the only answer that is logical. If the funds came from the same source, there would have been no logic to delay the purchase of a needed PS ladder truck and shift those funds over to be loaned. If it was the same source, the truck would (seemingly) never have been on the table. thus I presume the funds came from a different pot as the truck was again green-lighted.

From reports here, it sounds like more trucks are currently needed to replace aged or otherwise deficient equipment. I hope that also gets addressed well before someone regrets it not being addressed.

I'm an acknowledged outsider, but have friends in the metro. I prefer they be safe.According to Cafeboeuf, whom I have no reason to doubt, the Ladder in question was funded with M4KIDS Use Tax (see post #36 in this thread). Considering the $4 M +/- which was diverted from the original budget of $10,777,820. would leave $6.5 M +/- which could cover the cost of the 1 ladder. Come to think of it, that would most likely pay for 10 or 12 ladders at $500,000. So wheres the problem I wonder?

Mikemarsh51
06-23-2010, 10:09 PM
Two slightly used as demonstrator ladder trucks are now in service as RL16 and RL25. These vehicles are base models, yet are very high quality vehicles. You will notice these trucks if you see them, they are a dark maroon color unlike the bright red color of all our other trucks.

rcjunkie
06-23-2010, 11:03 PM
Two slightly used as demonstrator ladder trucks are now in service as RL16 and RL25. These vehicles are base models, yet are very high quality vehicles. You will notice these trucks if you see them, they are a dark maroon color unlike the bright red color of all our other trucks.

Is this a new color choice for OKC, or being slightly used ladder trucks, is it "what you get is what you get".

Rescue_Company_One
06-24-2010, 01:44 AM
I am willing to bet it was a "Here are 2 trucks, take em or leave em deal" and I am sure the firefighters arent going to complain about the color as long as it works at the moment. For the OKC Firefighters here, Would you , or could you, please list as many vehicles as you can and thier ages and problems. Also is the union fighting with the city over this issue still??? I have seen ZERO coverage of this and its a pretty big deal. Even bigger when your trapped on the 6th floor somewhere and the Ladder truck that is supposed to be there within 8 minutes to raise up and save you doesnt work. OOOPS. (Not the Fault of the Firefighters)
There is a cool thing called ISO. Its all about your insurance rates. The ISO's Fire Suppression Rating Schedule (FSRS) measures the major elements of a community's fire-protection system, which includes guidelines for providing ladder truck and service company response. The ISO recommends that an aerial ladder truck be used in response areas that have:
Five buildings that are three stories — 35 feet to the eaves — or more in height.
Five buildings that require a fire flow of greater than 3,500 gpm.
Five buildings with any combination of these criteria.

I am curious how many of the 37?? Fire Districts in OKC meet these Standards. I understand its crazy to have a ladder at every station but 6 Ladders to cover 621 Square miles is nuts. How can we put up with a city council that allows this to happen???

1 More Quastion for the OCFD guys here. I saw a new Chief vehicle Driving around and it had "Battalion Chief", Are they changing from District Chief to Battalions now??

oneforone
06-24-2010, 02:41 AM
Those demonstrator trucks are being used while E-One completes upgrades to OCFD Ladder Trucks. If you look close at them, there are no city logos or engine numbers on those trucks.

OCFD signed a deal with E-One when they were orginally purchased in 90's that included a truck upgrades when the trucks turn a certain age.

E-ONE - Press Releases (http://www.saulsburyfire.com/news/press-releases.htm?id=183)




Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, recently contracted the E-ONE Factory Service Center to restore six 19-year-old aerials which included removing and updating the aerial devices, replacing the bodies and replacing the chassis with the new Quest chassis. The aerials look and perform like new at a cost savings of over $100,000 per truck versus a new purchase.


“Given the current state of the economy, this upgrade allowed us to let our rig budget go further,” said Deputy Chief Cecal Clay. “We are extremely happy with the way the units turned out, they look brand new, you can’t even tell they’re 19-years-old.”

Mikemarsh51
06-24-2010, 07:30 AM
Oneforone, you are wrong! OCFD purchased three of these trucks from Eone. The loaner rig you speak of was bought early this year after the 4 ladder upgrades were completed. It has been restriped and designated RL-9. RL-16 and RL-25 are as I stated earlier are demonstrator models, one with 9000 miles and one with 13,900 miles. They were purchased from Eone and were delivered already marked as RL-16 and RL-25.

kevinpate
06-24-2010, 09:03 AM
OK, I'm a touch lost. a couple of months back we were discussing the dearth of safe ladder trucks. We discussed how only one was ordered, albeit after a minor touch of hockeyitis delay.

But the last 24 hours of posts look like several refurbs have been garnered while waiting on the new truck. So for those of us who sometimes can't count well unless we're dividing up m&m candies, how the FD sitting regarding ladder trucks after the recent changes?

Mikemarsh51
06-24-2010, 10:44 AM
RL-1 Refurbished 1991 E-one, New truck, ladder dismantled and rebuilt, recertified.

RL-6 1995 Pierce, out of service, non-usable, now using old RL-25, Ladder is inoperable.

RL-7 Refurbished 1991 E-one.

RL-9 2003 E-one HP 78, former loaner rig we purchased for $165,000.

RL-14 1995 LTI, in service, needs replacedment.

RL-15 Refurbished 1991 E-one.

RL-16 2009 E-one HP 75, former demonstrator.

RL-18 1995 LTI, out of service.

RL-22 2006 E-one 100 foot ladder.

RL-25 2009 HP 78, former demonstrator.

RL-30 refurbished 1991 E-one

RL-31 1995 LTI in service, needs replacement.

RL-34 1995 LTI in service, needs replacement.

We have 13 aerial devices. of those, 8 are in excellent working condition. 2 are completely out of service, these companies are operating out of reserve fire engines, which can only carry a portion of the assigned equipment. 3 are in service but have problems such as the ladder is inoperable. These three rigs are still roadworthy and carry all the needed equipment.

The 1995 pierce is most likely going to be the subject of a lawsuit due to construction flaws.

The LTI trucks manufacturer is no longer in business and parts are impossible to very hard to find.

This leaves us with no Ladders in reserve, if a ladder goes out of service they could be assigned a resrve engine, squad or possibly a van to operate out of.

Rescue_Company_One
06-24-2010, 11:58 AM
Mike,
Thanks for the Info. Its good that there are now 8 aerials that work in the city. Does the City have any Tower Ladders or are all the aerials stright stick??? Just Curious.

Mikemarsh51
06-24-2010, 02:53 PM
RL-6, RL-7 and RL-15 are aerial platforms. RL-6 is out of service permanently.

andy157
06-24-2010, 11:23 PM
OK, I'm a touch lost. a couple of months back we were discussing the dearth of safe ladder trucks. We discussed how only one was ordered, albeit after a minor touch of hockeyitis delay.

But the last 24 hours of posts look like several refurbs have been garnered while waiting on the new truck. So for those of us who sometimes can't count well unless we're dividing up m&m candies, how the FD sitting regarding ladder trucks after the recent changes?

Here are the facts as of 2:00 pm on 3/9/10:

Rescue Ladders 1, 7, 9, 15, 22, and 30 are all in front line original equipment and fully operational.

Rescue Ladder 6 is Out-of-Service and the crew is in old rescue squad 108.

Edit: You will see RL31 does not appear because I was unable to make contact with them that day.

Rescue Ladder 14 is in original equipment but they are not allowed to use the aerial ladder.

Rescue ladder 16 is Out-of-Service and the crew is in old engine 101.

Rescue ladder 18 is Out-of-Service and the crew is in old engine 111.

Rescue ladder 25 is in original equipment but they are not allowed to use the aerial ladder.

Rescue ladder 34 is Out-of-Service and the crew is in old rescue squad 117.

This information was verified by directly contacting the officer’s in charge of each RL.

barnold
06-26-2010, 04:13 PM
3 months later but the situation hasn't improved any on the ladder trucks. A few trucks have come back into service and a few more have gone out of service for an undetermined amount of time. I'll see if I can get a more up to date list in the next several days.

Mikemarsh51
06-26-2010, 11:47 PM
BA check page 3, I have an updated list, you might see how close it is.