Would MicroLofts or Tiny Condos work in downtown Oklahoma City? I found an article on TinyHouseBlog (weird interest of mine) about tiny lofts in Vancouver. Very interesting as we're going through a downsize craze in this country anyway. Here's the article on the MicroLofts and a couple others I found.

Micro-lofts - The Shrinking Condo (http://tinyhouseblog.com/tiny-house/micro-lofts-the-shrinking-condo/) (Read the post comments too - interesting.)

CoolTown Studios - Mini Condos (http://www.cooltownstudios.com/2009/10/23/mini-condos-on-the-rise-in-walkable-urban-areas)

fashionable living, with money left for life... moda apartments (http://www.modaapts.com/)

With so many people clamoring for affordable housing downtown and so much talk about getting and keeping young creatives, twenty and thirty somethings, this seems like a way to provide "rooftops" at an affordable price downtown. These obviously aren't for everybody, but for many this is all they need or want. Seems like an opportunity for a developer with some guts. I think it just might work in OKC and shake up the center city living scene.

Take a look at what I'm talking about and leave your thoughts. It's nothing if not interesting.

By the way, that Cool Town Studios blog (http://www.cooltownstudios.com/)is awesome. You should take a few minutes and look through some of the posts. It's all about urban creative "crowdsourcing."

Looks pretty neat, not sure if OKC buyers would go for it though.

It's not going to happen in OKC until FHA backs off of its current financing requirements for condo developments.

It's not going to happen in OKC until FHA backs off of its current financing requirements for condo developments.


I'm really curious about the concept as much as anything.

Looks pretty neat, not sure if OKC buyers would go for it though.

I know tons of people who would go for something like this, especially recent grads, and especially if it happened downtown.

Unless, of course, the current trend of overpricing the life out of everything just because it's downtown applies to them.

Google 'Katrina Cottage'... there many sellers of small, hella-cute, pre-fab houses.

I'm really curious about the concept as much as anything.

I don't think anyone is going to live in a glorified dorm room by choice. In cities where square footage is offered at a premium, this might be viable. OKC is not one of those cities even if developers want to force that premium.

Now, as a concept for a college dorm room, this'd be flippin' sweet.

midtowner please explain to all of us what the FHA financing requirement for condos are and how it differs from their other financing requirement.

I don't think anyone is going to live in a glorified dorm room by choice. In cities where square footage is offered at a premium, this might be viable. OKC is not one of those cities even if developers want to force that premium.

Now, as a concept for a college dorm room, this'd be flippin' sweet.

These are more than college dorm rooms. These are condos with great amenities but the units are very small. Like I said, not for everyone, but all many would want or need.

I can see something like this going well right in the heart of downtown. Perhaps bust south of Deep Deuce, it would only work though, if there was a shopping center on the bottom floor complete with mini grocery, bar, coffee shop, a selection of restaurants and a general store.

No one wants to live in a showbox if they have to drive out of the city to get things to live and enjoy life anyway. These only work if the city becomes more "walkable" i.e. easy access to the things that make life easier to live.

midtowner please explain to all of us what the FHA financing requirement for condos are and how it differs from their other financing requirement.

The new requirements require developers to be able to pay 30 (or 33%?) cash up front in order to secure financing. That means that unless the developer has access to large sums of cash or have investors who have that sort of cash and are willing to risk it in this economy.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not in that industry, I just try to pay attention to it.

The new requirements require developers to be able to pay 30 (or 33%?) cash up front in order to secure financing. That means that unless the developer has access to large sums of cash or have investors who have that sort of cash and are willing to risk it in this economy.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not in that industry, I just try to pay attention to it.

I work for a bank that does commercial financing and that is about right. Since all the stuff that happened in the banking industry in the last couple of years, banks have simply tightened their requirements (going from 80% LTV with 20% cash or other collateral down to 70% LTV with 30% cash down.) Also, if there is anything that would make the bank a little suspicious on your credit report, that would have to cleared up before moving forward.

I work for a bank that does commercial financing and that is about right. Since all the stuff that happened in the banking industry in the last couple of years, banks have simply tightened their requirements (going from 80% LTV with 20% cash or other collateral down to 70% LTV with 30% cash down.) Also, if there is anything that would make the bank a little suspicious on your credit report, that would have to cleared up before moving forward.

Hence the hundreds of condos here in destin, and thousands throughout Florida that arent being sold. It's nearly impossible to get a normal loan to purchase a condo here, much less a FHA loan.

I like the idea of these smaller apartment/condoss too. I have been thinking for a while that it would be cool to see areas with smaller houses or apartments that are the same quality as much more expensive ones. just because someone cant afford a million dollar house doesnt mean they dont desire million dollar finishes on a much smaller version. My question is (and yes im looking for feedback) is do people think they are getting a deal/do they justify the same sqft price as a more expensive place. Example: lets say a nice 1000 sqft condo sells for $200,000. That would be out of the price range for many young professionals. Now lets say someone builds some smaller condos of the same high quality and downsizes them to 500sqft @$200/sqft. Now you have a much more more affordable high quality condo for half the price, but half the size and the same price per foot. Do people think in these terms, or do yall think they dont mind paying a high dollar per foot as long as the finished product is in their price range?

benman, if I'm a young professional (I am) and I'm looking at that, I'm also thinking about resale.

That's a pretty damn big risk to take in this market. And with financing requirements being what they are, I can't think too many lenders would be willing to jump into bed with you on such a risk. That said, the condos over in Bricktown at the Centennial were in the ~$300/sq ft range and they sold out fast.

I guess you never know..

benman, if I'm a young professional (I am) and I'm looking at that, I'm also thinking about resale.

That's a pretty damn big risk to take in this market. And with financing requirements being what they are, I can't think too many lenders would be willing to jump into bed with you on such a risk. That said, the condos over in Bricktown at the Centennial were in the ~$300/sq ft range and they sold out fast.

I guess you never know..

Not sure if I was very clear.. Im not saying I would build these (maybe someday), or asking if a lender would be on board. Im asking if younger people (and older) dont mind paying high $$ per sqft as long as something is in their price range. Affordability seems to be the theme on these. Basically, does simply cutting the price of a condo in half by cutting the size in half, while still building at a high $$/sqft justify it as "affordable." I think some people with say, $100,000 might jump all over it, while maybe someone else would break down the costs and still think its overpriced.

It's not for me, but something like this might be a hit near Devon with the oil and gas crowd which will soon be flocking to downtown.

It's still anything but a safe investment though. Trying to command Dallas prices in OKC when real estate can be had within five minutes of downtown for less than half what downtown developers are asking has risk written all over it though.

I do think that the rental market in these sorts of units might be strong though. Especially near the new law school when that moves downtown.

Not sure if I was very clear.. Im not saying I would build these (maybe someday), or asking if a lender would be on board. Im asking if younger people (and older) dont mind paying high $$ per sqft as long as something is in their price range. Affordability seems to be the theme on these. Basically, does simply cutting the price of a condo in half by cutting the size in half, while still building at a high $$/sqft justify it as "affordable." I think some people with say, $100,000 might jump all over it, while maybe someone else would break down the costs and still think its overpriced.

I think there are probably a fair number of people who would choose quality over square footage, as long as the square footage is reasonably liveable. The square footage you're talking about is similar to that of a carriage house, and I've seen some of them that are really nice.

The plans for the Leslie in Maywood Park start at $99,000 and are in that square footage range. I know they wouldn't start it until they've sold more of the units in the Maywood Lofts, but they would be a great option for people.

theleslieatmaywoodpark.com

$99,000 for 560sq feet seems a bit high to me.. Does that include parking for a vehicle? I know there's not much within walking distance from those units, so a vehicle would be fairly necessary.

**edit: Actually it seems way too high considering there's places 2 or 3 times as big within 3 miles of that place for the same price.

Again, fuzzytoad, it depends on what you get for the money, and what you want. If you get wood floors and granite countertops, really nice cabinetry and custom finishes, then that's what it costs, especially if they're going to use buildblock construction, which dramatically lowers utility bills, but is expensive to build. I'm not sure about parking. I know there are two parking spaces outside every building in the front, and I suspect there would be parking in the rear as well. As far as not being much within walking distance, I live nearby and I rarely drive. I walk to Bricktown, downtown or over to 9th Street to eat. I walk to the Harkins to go to the movies, and to the Ford Center or the Brick for games. I can walk to the Civic Center, the Art Museum, the Myriad Gardens....pretty much anywhere downtown in 10 minutes or less. The only thing missing is a grocery store, and I drive no farther to the grocery store at 16th and Classen than I did when I lived farther out.

Three miles from there means you certainly cannot walk.....or skateboard. Is anyone here the skateboarder I see wearing a business suit who rides to work? That's one of my favorite sights in the morning. Pretty funny.

Ah, well, I didn't take into account the interior design, and agree that the higher the quality, the higher the price.. I'll admit that I haven't even glanced at the insides of those Maywood Park units.. If it doesn't have an attached garage with room for a workshop, or a basement, I've not really paid attention :smile:

I'd purchase one. I think there is enough market that we could probably support at least one development of these. I agree, I think it's more the price point than the price per square foot that is an issue. People want the downtown lifestyle, but it has to be affordable. Only so many people can afford $250K+ for a small condo. I would definitely trade my bigger condo in MidTown/SoSA for a smaller microcondo in the heart of downtown.

I would definitely trade my bigger condo in MidTown/SoSA for a smaller microcondo in the heart of downtown.

What are the physical boundaries of The Heart of Downtown?

Well technically downtown is defined as Classen on the West, NW 13th on the North, I235 on the east and the Oklahoma River south, but most people consider MidTown starting at either NW 4th or NW 6th. I'd consider downtown proper Broadway on the east, NW 4th on the north, Walker on the West and Reno on the south.

Micro Lofts and Lofts are coming to the Mideke. Watch for info.Exciting for Bricktown.
Affordable with a View......

Micro Lofts and Lofts are coming to the Mideke. Watch for info.Exciting for Bricktown.
Affordable with a View......

That's great news! Please tell more.

I found this on Craigslist:

Bricktown Lofts- Mideke Supply Co. Bldg (http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/reo/1544552816.html)

The only way i would want something like this would be if i worked downtown and used it for a place to crash during the work week, assuming i had a nice big house way out in the country that i could drive to on the weekends. Of course i would want to work long hours that way i could shorten the week.

These look very nice but there is no way i could deal with the lack of space.

Steve's article in the Oklahoman talks about the Mideke Building. Here is a quote from the article as it pertains to Microlofts:

He is now contemplating how best to pursue housing for the building’s empty top three floors. Ideas include either apartments or introducing a new concept to downtown: for-sale microlofts that come with no more than a bathroom and living area.

The only obstacle, he said, is the need to add a second fire escape stairway, which he is hoping to get done this next year.

"I think this is doable if the economy heals or stays somewhat stable,” Berlin said.

"The key to operating in this economy is to come up with something people can afford. And I see some of the units on the fourth floor being as low as $80,000.”

He expects to settle on a firm plan this next year.

Here is the rest of the article:

NewsOK (http://newsok.com/bricktown-chocolatier-rolls-along-with-flow/article/3436719?custom_click=lead_story_title)

Is microloft a fancy new name for efficiency apartment?

Bigray in Ok

Is microloft a fancy new name for efficiency apartment?

Bigray in Ok

Pretty much. If you look at the first page of this thread, there are links to various developments in different areas. Seems most of the microlofts range from 250-400 sq feet. I would guess these would be in the higher of that range and the developer said they would be about $80,000. That is about $200/ square foot for an apartment in Bricktown.

There's a 4-story brick building at the NW corner of 10th & Broadway - I think that would be a great locale for something like this.

I found this on Craigslist:

Bricktown Lofts- Mideke Supply Co. Bldg (http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/reo/1544552816.html)

Sounds interesting. I emailed them. We'll see what the response is.

"...microlofts that come with no more than a bathroom and living area." starting "as low as" $80,000???

Sounds like about the size of a standard hotel room w/bathroom (but no kitchenette?). I know of people that live in those type of spaces but they are typically temporary and not something they would consider as a long term (purchase). With most hotel arrangements like this they do include linen change as often as once a week (but usually monthly). Don't imagine that would be done here. Is there laundry facilities in the area? The $80,000 does seem high to me but have never looked at buying a condo. What does that translate into a monthly payment? My 2 bed/bath apt w/ 960sf runs me about $550/month.

"...microlofts that come with no more than a bathroom and living area." starting "as low as" $80,000???

Sounds like about the size of a standard hotel room w/bathroom (but no kitchenette?). I know of people that live in those type of spaces but they are typically temporary and not something they would consider as a long term (purchase). With most hotel arrangements like this they do include linen change as often as once a week (but usually monthly). Don't imagine that would be done here. Is there laundry facilities in the area? The $80,000 does seem high to me but have never looked at buying a condo. What does that translate into a monthly payment? My 2 bed/bath apt w/ 960sf runs me about $550/month.

All said and done the payment would be roughly the same depending on mortgage insurance and all that good stuff. Do you pay 550 total at your apt? or is it 550 for you and 550 for a roomate. That seems pretty cheap, which is awesome.

"...microlofts that come with no more than a bathroom and living area." starting "as low as" $80,000???

Sounds like about the size of a standard hotel room w/bathroom (but no kitchenette?). I know of people that live in those type of spaces but they are typically temporary and not something they would consider as a long term (purchase). With most hotel arrangements like this they do include linen change as often as once a week (but usually monthly). Don't imagine that would be done here. Is there laundry facilities in the area? The $80,000 does seem high to me but have never looked at buying a condo. What does that translate into a monthly payment? My 2 bed/bath apt w/ 960sf runs me about $550/month.

Doing $80,000 at 5% on 30 years would be about $430/month. If you were to do the same loan on 15 years, it would increase the payment to $630/month. That is not factoring in taxes and insurance.

I think with so few units they would have at Mideke, they'd be smarter to make them apartments. To me, the microloft ownership thing only makes sense when there's room for amenities and a larger community of owners.

You have a point about apartments Mike. We are considering all the options at this time, we know for sure we want to have people living in the building as it is sooo awesome and such an amazing view.
Also if any of you guys are up early Fox 25 at Coco Flow 6-9 in the morning

All said and done the payment would be roughly the same depending on mortgage insurance and all that good stuff. Do you pay 550 total at your apt? or is it 550 for you and 550 for a roomate. That seems pretty cheap, which is awesome.

If payment is about the same as now, that is completely unacceptable...giving up all that sf

$550 for just me, no room mate...includes $24 for community utilities (water/sewer, trash pick up and EMSA). Personally think it is high but have definitely seen higher prices for smaller sf the farther north and west I looked

Also do these types of micro loft units have a home owners association type fee that has to be added on too (hear about that on HGTV's House Hunters, adds $200/month if I remember correctly)

Doing $80,000 at 5% on 30 years would be about $430/month. If you were to do the same loan on 15 years, it would increase the payment to $630/month. That is not factoring in taxes and insurance.

Thanks for the info...that is insanely high IMO

On the other hand, you're living downtown, and you're putting equity into your living space. In addition, I've heard they have really high ceilings, and you can customize them, which you can't really do with a rental. Some people, and I realize it's not all people, are willing to pay for that. It's like buying a designer shoe versus one at Pay Less. Some people want the designer shoe. Some people think it's a waste of money.

It really depends on how important your dwelling is to you, versus being simply a place in which to sleep, and it depends on what location you want.

On the other hand, you're living downtown, and you're putting equity into your living space. In addition, I've heard they have really high ceilings, and you can customize them, which you can't really do with a rental. Some people, and I realize it's not all people, are willing to pay for that. It's like buying a designer shoe versus one at Pay Less. Some people want the designer shoe. Some people think it's a waste of money.

It really depends on how important your dwelling is to you, versus being simply a place in which to sleep, and it depends on what location you want.

The last part of your statement is the whole point...this sounds like just simply a place to sleep and thats about it (and at a very high price point, IMO). To go with your analogy, it is like paying designer shoe prices but getting the Pay Less shoe (and one that is too small). It is about value for the money. if there is value there then I can see it. For some the value does lie in "living Downtown". I wouldn't avoid living downtown like I would have in the past, but I don't see that much advantage in it right now either.

And this isn't a slam of these particular units or building per se. I love these types of buildings (that have some character to them). Haven't been in them but hard for me to imagine that much of a view on the 4th floor (where the "cheap $80K" units are). Now if you were talking about the 14th floor, but it is only a 5 story building. Maybe someone could post some pics of the fantastic view from the 4th floor vantage point.

And I am sorry, but "affordable" to me is NOT $80K (certainly not for something that small and virtually no amenities. But there is financial reality. Given the way banks are being very stingy with money these days, how realistic is it that someone could even get a loan for something like this? Since you mentioned you can customize it, is the $80K just for a shell unit? Do you have to add the customization cost into the mix as well? Hard to imagine someone that could even begin to afford something like this would be willing to settle for so little in return.

I wish them luck with it though, and if that is what you want, can afford it, then by all means, go for it.

The view of Downtown OKC from the Mideke is amazing from the ground level or the 5th floor.
I have the awesome photos, I will post if someone can tell me how the posting works on OKC talk. Not sure how to attache the photos in this program:)

The lofts are in the early stages, spaces start at 750 sq feet. They will have walls, doors, heat air and all utilites to the space. You do the rest.

There will be amenities yet to be determined as the plans are in the early stages. Its hard to imagine the inside of this old building unless you have actually experienced it first hand. The view....... I would say the view of Downtown is probly one of the best in the area. Everyone who sees it is in awe.
Definitly not for everyone but if someone really wants to live in Bricktown at an affordable price this project is for them.

Anyone interested in checking this out let me know. We have two committed to buyers as of Sunday and much interest. I myself am buying and moving down to Bricktown. I can't wait to actually live down there.

Please Larry, tell me how to post the photos then you will see what I am talking about.
i have photos of every season including New Years eve....

lhendrix, I don't have a reason to buy, since I already live in the area (welcome to the neighborhood!), but I'm curious. Do you have contractors interested in being available to finish out spaces. Or will people need to find their own contractors?

...Please Larry, tell me how to post the photos then you will see what I am talking about.
i have photos of every season including New Years eve....

Hope someone else can help him out as I don't know how to post photos here either (did it once, but don't recall how)

Mideke Lofts are still a go. Much planning has to be done with the first thing gathering information on City Rules and regulations. There are many. We are proceeding with that phase and learning everything that has to be upgraded, added or removed in order to make a warehouse built so long ago code ready for residents. I will keep everyone posted.
If someone could tell me how to post photos I would post the amazing view of the skyline from there. :)thanks

Upload the image to photobucket.com or imageshack.us. Find the box that says "Direct Link" and copy that string. Put the copied string between [ IMG ] and [ /IMG ] without the space between "IMG" and the brackets.

I don't think it would work here because one can drive 5 mins and get more for their money. 500 sq ft is TINY no one would be willing to pay that when they can double their sq ft for the same money and get better schools, garage, yard, attic and not have to put up with neighbors loud stereos and/or noise. It simply doesn't make sense in OKC.....and vancouver is a much different city. They are all crammed in there and many of those large buildings we see are actually high rise apartments. OKC is a different demographic.

Spaces are starting at 750 sq feet and many people are signing up for 2. I think living in a place like Bricktown is not for everyone but for those who it is for it is a great opportunity to get in on a new project.. The View is everything from the Mideke and thats why most people want to live there. The complete skyline of Downtown is breathtaking any time of year. Its all about what someone wants and there five units are committed to...