STL, as a young professional working/living in an urban environment, we want to be able to walk to retail we will use on a REGULAR basis and draws lots of Foot traffic. How many single professionals downtown walk to a scuba shop or antique store on a regular basis? How often would we walk to a Gap, Urban Outfitters, American Apparel, Walgreens or other drugstore, Kenneth Cole, etc. not only would tons of downtowners and visitors staying DT walk to this type of retail on a regular basis, but it's the type of destination retail that suburbanites would come and walk to. Scuba shop is no different than Bass Pro, suburbanites will come in and park as close to the door as possible, and head back to suburbia. It does little to create a healthy, busy street life.

I suspect they will swim, not sink. the higher end specialty stores going in are destination retail, not neighborhood retail. That's not a bad thing. There is ample space in the area for smaller neighborhood shops along with this particular stretch of higher end retail. Far better to see these specialty stores going in than see spaces sit empty for ages on the thin hopes of a GAP showing up.

Metro- I hear what you are saying. I would love to see an American Apparel or Urban Outfitters downtown. I would not particularly care about a Gap. I just don't think it's realistic to wait around for a national chain to take a chance on an unproven area. Build the street up with a wide variety of retail options - to include all kinds of local stores and services. Get the neighborhood going and maybe national chains will arrive. Of course by that time we may not want them to. The Delmar Blvd loop in STL (University City) is one of the most successful urban streets in the whole Midwest and it actively tries to keep out chains. It has music stores, clothing stores, used book stores, coffee shops, a tobacconist, a tattoo parlor, ethnic restaurants. And on and on. AA should grow organically with an open book policy on interesting uses. Wait around for national chains and we'll never develop density. And one more thing - I dont necessarily think the AVERAGE neighborhood user is going to be going in an Urban Outfitters on a weekly basis.

If the national retailers start looking at places like AA the rents will go up to the point that the local (even specialty) retailers will find someplace else go to. It has happened in areas like South Congress and South Lamar in Austin. Shops like Terra Toys which made South Congress into a unique place were forced out when the nationals started looking at it and are willing to pay exorbitant rents compared to what a small interdependent local shop can pay. When a shops rent doubles or triples over one year because all of a sudden a landlord sees a possibility of a national taking their space, most push the local retailer out the door. I know of a few places that sat empty for a few years because of this after they pushed out the long time tenants. Most of them didn't get their big, national retailer paying a ridiculous amount either, they ended up sitting vacant until a local bar signed a lease at about the same rate as the tenant they kicked out.

The Delmar Blvd loop in STL (University City) is one of the most successful urban streets in the whole Midwest and it actively tries to keep out chains. It has music stores, clothing stores, used book stores, coffee shops, a tobacconist, a tattoo parlor, ethnic restaurants. And on and on.

I was in LA a couple of weeks ago and walked up and down Melrose Ave. from La Cienga to La Brea. That is considered to be one of the hippest shopping streets in the LA area. Unless I missed something I didn't see any nationally known retailers at all. The shops are mainly small and were very specialized.

If it wasn't for the dive shop, antique store, coffee shop and bike shop I'd never have a reason to be on Broadway, let alone stop - and now I find myself there often when just a few years ago the place was deserted. Put in a Walgreens and you're never going to see me going in to the place - there is WalGreens on every corner.

...there is WalGreens on every corner.

Well, every corner except the urban core that is. The difference between people that see downtown as an 'urban backyard shared by everyone' and those that want to actually live in it 24/7 is starting to come into sharp relief.

I don't think a strip like AA needs general retail like a Walgreen's, to me those would work just as well on one of the cross streets.

Well, every corner except the urban core that is. The difference between people that see downtown as an 'urban backyard shared by everyone' and those that want to actually live in it 24/7 is starting to come into sharp relief.

I never got the whole, "I need a WalMart, Walgreens and Homeland within a few blocks of my home." Most of our friends live either downtown or "in the country" and none complain about the lack of one of those within walking distance. The proximity of those places is last on our list when looking to move downtown. The fact is, you can be at virtually any retailers door within 5-15 minutes in OKC.

If it wasn't for the dive shop, antique store, coffee shop and bike shop I'd never have a reason to be on Broadway, let alone stop - and now I find myself there often when just a few years ago the place was deserted. Put in a Walgreens and you're never going to see me going in to the place - there is WalGreens on every corner.

Well, I'll if it wasn't for Hideaway, Coffee Slingers, Iguana, Panchinko Parlor, and ShopGood I'd never stop there. Those places bring a lot more vitality to the district. You should check them out...

Well, I'll if it wasn't for Hideaway, Coffee Slingers, Iguana, Panchinko Parlor, and ShopGood I'd never stop there. Those places bring a lot more vitality to the district. You should check them out...

I have problem with those places, they are small and local (I actually mentioned Slingers). More of those and the shops like are already there is all I need. Save the box retailers and out-of-state chains for corners down the street. Of those though, we can't stand Panchinko. But I like the vibe.

I don't understand why you can't have a Hideaway and a scuba shop and a Pachinko Parlor and a bike shop and a Shop Good and an antique shop. And for that matter a nonprofit HQ and a Walgreens, or preferably a local drug store. Why on earth do we feel like we have to segregate everything? Let the market develop; as housing comes in you'll see services. As the density improves, you'll see more strong retailers, in addition to the wonderful pioneers. As the local shops are more and more successful, you'll probably see some chains.

I don't understand why you can't have a Hideaway and a scuba shop and a Pachinko Parlor and a bike shop and a Shop Good and an antique shop. And for that matter a nonprofit HQ and a Walgreens, or preferably a local drug store. Why on earth do we feel like we have to segregate everything? Let the market develop; as housing comes in you'll see services. As the density improves, you'll see more strong retailers, in addition to the wonderful pioneers. As the local shops are more and more successful, you'll probably see some chains.

Ding Ding Ding - we have a winner.

If it wasn't for the dive shop, antique store, coffee shop and bike shop I'd never have a reason to be on Broadway, let alone stop - and now I find myself there often when just a few years ago the place was deserted. Put in a Walgreens and you're never going to see me going in to the place - there is WalGreens on every corner.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but having all of North Broadway be transformed by stunning renovations is definitely a plus for the city. I think what people are trying to convey is not just the vitality of Automobile Alley, but also the very cool vibe that exists there.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but having all of North Broadway be transformed by stunning renovations is definitely a plus for the city. I think what people are trying to convey is not just the vitality of Automobile Alley, but also the very cool vibe that exists there.

Hmmmmm, never said any of that wasn't true. I actually stated that if it wasn't for the current tenants and improvements I would have no reason at all to patronize the area. I personally don't think your typical national chains are what it needed. I certainly don't care if a couple of store fronts go in, but I'd hate to see something large like a WalGreen's in the immediate area. Maybe to the North in the vacant lot next to the Garage Lofts.

Free gourmet burgers at S&B on 9th until 8:00 PM tonight. Grand opening.

Hmmmmm, never said any of that wasn't true. I actually stated that if it wasn't for the current tenants and improvements I would have no reason at all to patronize the area. I personally don't think your typical national chains are what it needed. I certainly don't care if a couple of store fronts go in, but I'd hate to see something large like a WalGreen's in the immediate area. Maybe to the North in the vacant lot next to the Garage Lofts.

I think a Walgreens is a need for downtown, but I agree with your sentiment with local businesses over chains. We all know that's the way to go, but we also know that destination retail and local retailers are the best mix to create some synergy for further revitalization.

I didn't want to come down harsh on you, I just saw the attacks and potentially miscontsrued interpretation of your comments and wanted to get us back on some common ground is all.

Just had "The Frenchman" mushroom Swiss! Awesome good! They have homemade pies! Great addition to AA. Glad there is a Y on AA too. Lol

I think a Walgreens is a need for downtown, but I agree with your sentiment with local businesses over chains. We all know that's the way to go, but we also know that destination retail and local retailers are the best mix to create some synergy for further revitalization.

I didn't want to come down harsh on you, I just saw the attacks and potentially miscontsrued interpretation of your comments and wanted to get us back on some common ground is all.

I'm all onboard with a WalGreens and such, just not right on AA between 4th and 10th.

Free gourmet burgers at S&B on 9th until 8:00 PM tonight. Grand opening.

Drove by the other day and the place looked sharp.

Photos of S&B from today courtesy Urban Pioneer (note cool overhead doors):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sb1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sb2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sb3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sb4.jpg

I love to see new local places open up, but isn't the buger market getting a little saturated around here? Within a mile we have Irma's, Kaisers, Mcnellies (admitedly not know for its burgers, but you have to consider $3 burger night) and Tuckers isn't too far away. Please keep opening restruants in this area, but can we get something a little different? Don't get me wrong, I'll probably be down there tonight to check it out, I just think AA could benefit from a Jewish Deli, gyro's, a coolgreens, a german beirgarten or some amazing food that I've never even heard of.

I am encouraged by the Spaten, Left Hand and (I think) Breckinridge Brewery Taps though!

I love to see new local places open up, but isn't the buger market getting a little saturated around here? Within a mile we have Irma's, Kaisers, Mcnellies (admitedly not know for its burgers, but you have to consider $3 burger night) and Tuckers isn't too far away. Please keep opening restruants in this area, but can we get something a little different? Don't get me wrong, I'll probably be down there tonight to check it out, I just think AA could benefit from a Jewish Deli, gyro's, a coolgreens, a german beirgarten or some amazing food that I've never even heard of.

I am encouraged by the Spaten, Left Hand and (I think) Breckinridge Brewery Taps though!

It's hard to saturate in any market with burgers. I'd rather see a Jewish Deli or better yet a real breakfast diner. As far as cool greens, there is one a few blocks away in the CBD so doubt they'd build another downtown for quite awhile.

There was a deli in Midtown that failed. By all accounts it wasn't well-run, but still that concept has been recently attempted in the area.

McNellie's, Irma's and Kaiser's are not only in a different area (Midtown) they are all quite different than what S&B's is offering. Kaiser's and McNellie's are hardly burger-first operations and as far as I know Irma's doesn't even sell beer, much less have a bar.


I think this is a great addition to the area and actually offers something relatively unique. I also predict it will be a huge success.

Irma's has a bar and sells beer, just not a big bar.

Pete's right. It will be a huge success. If you've never had S&B (and most probably haven't, due to its quirky first location in NW OKC), the burgers are a dramatic departure from the other places mentioned (many of which are also unique and departures themselves, for instance Tucker's). They are all fantastic in their own right; this just fills another niche.

hmmm..may try them out on Thursday!

Midtown Irma's has a counter where you can eat, not a bar; and I think they only sell bottled beer.

Very, very different concept than S&B.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/irmas.jpg

Although I guess it would make it a chain, I'd love to see Rick Bayless open up a Xoco in AA or Midtown. Just had lunch there today (in Chicago) and it's a great concept that isn't in OKC anywhere.

S&B actually started out as a bar, ElectroLounge. It was EL for several years before they started serving burgers, and a while longer before they admitted to themselves and everyone else that they were more successful as a burger place than as a bar. They still have the soul of a bar though, and thankfully that extends to the new location.

Having eaten at all of those establishments, this is in a niche of its own. By far it will have a following. I would reiterate that the homemade pies could also contribute to this being such a niche downtown eatery. Particularly if the Lunch Box closes. It is hard to find a diverse selection homemade pies in the downtown area. Particularly meringue pies.

S&Bs is the bomb. Ate there tonight. I liked it way better than Tucker's, and that's not a slam toward Tucker's, which is very good, it's just that S&B's is more of a destination and there is a ton more variety and creativity to the menu.

Speaking of bars...OKC doesnt seem to blend the restaurant & bar very well. It seems its either mostly all restaurant with little thought put into the bar. Not much of a good job of blending the two. Mcnellies you could say does it but not many else. Im thinking of the type of places that you may go eat there but youd also hang out there at 11:30 and enjoy a few drinks as well as the surrounding crowd. Maybe Ive been to tulsa too much lately, which imo does the bar/restaurant blend very well. Everything here seems to be one or the other.

Although I guess it would make it a chain, I'd love to see Rick Bayless open up a Xoco in AA or Midtown. Just had lunch there today (in Chicago) and it's a great concept that isn't in OKC anywhere.

What you're referring to is more of a quick service type restaurant which he has opened. I like that concept. I also wish he, as on OKC native, would consider something like this in the downtown area.

http://www.redorestaurant.com/#/home

I had dinner there a couple of weeks ago and loved it. It is definitely an upscale concept though. Maybe Devon could lure him to the top of their tower. Dinner for two including drinks was about $90.00.

Speaking of bars...OKC doesnt seem to blend the restaurant & bar very well. It seems its either mostly all restaurant with little thought put into the bar. Not much of a good job of blending the two. Mcnellies you could say does it but not many else. Im thinking of the type of places that you may go eat there but youd also hang out there at 11:30 and enjoy a few drinks as well as the surrounding crowd. Maybe Ive been to tulsa too much lately, which imo does the bar/restaurant blend very well. Everything here seems to be one or the other.

I was at a coffee shop/bar called Vagabond in Wichita tonight and thought that was an interesting combo. People were having beers at one table while people nearby were studying. It is a dingy place for hipsters, but I liked it. It seems like a place that would actually fit really well on 9th street...

Seems to be a little work in progress at building located 1501 N. Broadway. The building has been for sale / for lease for some time now. Could be nothing but clean up for better presentation & marketing, but today 3 ADT security trucks are out front and the last couple of weeks there have been other contractors there too. http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2710/R042921500001sA.jpg

I couldn't find a building permit for 1501 N. Broadway, but lots of times they start interior renovation without one.

It is more than likely clean up and demo. I have seen 3 or 4 full sized trash containers on site as well.

I think it is owned by Corsair and the surrounding vacant buildings to the North are also being cleaned up with trash removal.

Despite my negativity in my last post regarding S&B, I dropped by last night, got there around 7:30 and was told that they were no longer seating people (closing the kitchen at 8 and there were several groups on the list ahead of me). The place looked awesome though and I can't wait to try it out once they open permanently. The hostess did say that since they had such a good turnout last night they might be opening again one more night this week and to watch for an anouncement on facebook.

Despite my negativity in my last post regarding S&B, I dropped by last night, got there around 7:30 and was told that they were no longer seating people (closing the kitchen at 8 and there were several groups on the list ahead of me). The place looked awesome though and I can't wait to try it out once they open permanently. The hostess did say that since they had such a good turnout last night they might be opening again one more night this week and to watch for an anouncement on facebook.

today would be the last night they might open ..... they plan to be closed on thursday and open for business to on friday

Its great to see more places come around 9th, but I really wish it was not S&B. I personally think they are a bit overpriced for the quality of food you get.

I am hoping that they have a special Tuesday deal at that location to go with the special Tuesdays theme that seems to have developed.

Prices at S&B on May is very reasonable. Great burgers and great options. Doesn't compete with McDonalds or other cheap fast burgers. GOOD is better than just cheap.

I've got no problem paying 6 or 7 bucks for a high-quality specialty burger. This is not a lettuce-tomato-mustard cheeseburger (though I love those too). Here's a photo of the May Ave menu (http://www.urbanspoon.com/u/menu/1493908) from UrbanSpoon. Here are the reviews (http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/46/1493908/restaurant/Suburban-Northside/S-Bs-Burger-Joint-Oklahoma-City) on UrbanSpoon. I think there is plenty of room for a place like this, especially on 9th/AA, where there currently IS no burger option. Seriously, if you're just looking for cheap, Carl's, Jr. is right down the street.

http://a1.urbns.pn/w/s/No/XLrkp344EGJYPZ.jpg

Uh, those prices aren't high at all. Very reasonable.

Just to be clear, the $3/4 prices are for sliders. They often have 2 or 3 slider deals, and also have $5 full-size burger deals from time to time. One other note is that the new location has a few new/changed items from the menu shown there. But seriously, read the reviews; the place is overwhelmingly well-rated on US.

I'd rather pay 6-7$ here on something that is quality,rather than going thru a MickeyD's drive-thru and saving 1$!

I'll say, considering the bigger burgers at Carl's all are over $5 and medium fries are $2.

Place is PACKED. They don't have their liquor license yet. Out of pie already. They say Friday they will hopefully start serving liquor. Looking at this huge list of drinks they say they will serve here. Will send photos to Pete.

Went to S&R last night, awesome place. They had most of my favorite beers and those fries... peanut butter bacon sweet potato heaven! I officially take back any negativity I had about getting another burger place in the area.

I went last night as well before the Thunder game. I had the Skinny which is the Veggie burger since I am a vegetarian. It was really good. The patty is made fresh on site and not the typical Boca burger type thing that I usually have to contend with. It had the texture of a crab cake which I really used to enjoy when I ate meat and seafood. The beer selection is great and the key lime pie was devine. I am really glad to have another great place within walking distance of my office.

Although I guess it would make it a chain, I'd love to see Rick Bayless open up a Xoco in AA or Midtown. Just had lunch there today (in Chicago) and it's a great concept that isn't in OKC anywhere.

Yeah, agree totally with this. Sadly, though, I don't think he'll ever open up anything here, he lives in Chicago, will most likely stay living there for a long while, and open up his restaurants there. Been a huge fan of his shortly after we moved there in 96, and try to hit one of his places every time we go back.

They've got their liquor license now (and all other ones now). Ask anyone who's opened up a restaurant and they'll tell you how much of a pain in the ass it is to get a new liquor license in OK. ABLE is kind of a pain.

A lot different inside than the other location. More space, you can see the kitchen, and you don't smell like grease when you leave. Same food though. Between people working downtown and the OU health science center, I can see this place doing pretty well.

The vacant building(s) on the nw corner of 14th and broadway has an application on thursday's board of adjustment meeting to receive a variance for required parking spaces. It says the owner is proposing to remodel the building into a restaurant!

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=1423587

The vacant building(s) on the nw corner of 14th and broadway has an application on thursday's board of adjustment meeting to receive a variance for required parking spaces. It says the owner is proposing to remodel the building into a restaurant!

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=1423587

This city can't win for losing. In order to get the on-site variance from the required 116 spaces down to the 60 the existing lot can hold, they have to build a 78 car surface parking lot on the other side of Broadway and the lot has to exist as long the restaurant stays in business.

So if this passes another surface lot comes to Broadway.

This city can't win for losing. In order to get the on-site variance from the required 116 spaces down to the 60 the existing lot can hold, they have to build a 78 car surface parking lot on the other side of Broadway and the lot has to exist as long the restaurant stays in business.

So if this passes another surface lot comes to Broadway.

Ah, didn't catch that. So if the new parking lot is ever developed, it will have to be at the expense of this future restaurant. Of course, zoning can change I suppose...

IMO, 60 spaces seems more than enough already for what that building will ever need at one time.

I have to say I've never seen a full shopping parking lot in this city except for a sporting event or Black Friday, etc. You would think the city would take the tax dollars that come from redevelopment as they come and not worry about parking lot regulation.

The vacant building(s) on the nw corner of 14th and broadway has an application on thursday's board of adjustment meeting to receive a variance for required parking spaces. It says the owner is proposing to remodel the building into a restaurant!

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=1423587

I thought that most of the downtown areas have done away with the required parking guidelines and restrictions?

That parcel is outside the area defined for those purposes as "downtown." The dividing line is 13th. Developments in downtown have no contiguous parking requirements. This change was made in the late 90s. Before then if you wanted to develop something in the core you basically had to acquire additional property and even knock down buildings if necessary to satisfy suburban-style parking requirements.

I went last night as well before the Thunder game. I had the Skinny which is the Veggie burger since I am a vegetarian. It was really good. The patty is made fresh on site and not the typical Boca burger type thing that I usually have to contend with. It had the texture of a crab cake which I really used to enjoy when I ate meat and seafood. The beer selection is great and the key lime pie was devine. I am really glad to have another great place within walking distance of my office.
I had to chuckle over that line, CCOKC ... why not do the whole enchilada and enjoy real meat and seafood which you very plainly wish to emulate vis a vis vegetarian means ... are you a vegetarian traitor, or what ? J/K :dizzy:

I feel your pain.

I'm with Doug on that one. There is little reason to eat something that tastes like or resembles the texture of something delicious. Just go ahead and eat the delicious!

It is always better to be thinking 'this is danged fine crabcake' than 'this has a texture like good crabcake'

Same be true for steak, lobster, prawn, turkey, Q, and sausage.