It is great....but it will even be better once there is one dedicated to a bar/restaurant and not just some special event space above offices/retail. If there is a nice evening, no matter the day of the week, itd be nice to go sit on the roof and get a drink.

There is a bar on top of Café do Brasil.

There is a bar on top of Café do Brasil.

I figured that would be pointed out. However it is small and you cant expect a good crowd/fun atmosphere very often.

The bar atop the under-renovation Osler should be amazing, with plenty of space and some of the best skyline views anywhere.

I know we are moving pretty far afield, but since Pete posted off-topic right above me I feel safe in pointing out that Leadership Square has to be one of the most colossally-missed opportunities for great outdoor rooftop space in the history of OKC. I wish I could find a photo.

I moved the more recent posts on Peloton Wine Bar to a new thread in the Restaurants & Food forum:

http://www.okctalk.com/food-restaurants/34096-peloton-wine-bar-cafe.html

What is the 9th Street District?

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s160x160/187790_114870208589555_3513104_n.jpg

I came across this facebook page (which has not seen any activity in quite awhile):

https://www.facebook.com/9thstreetokc

It looks like a railroad sign but with what you see in it above. I assume it's a grouping of all the businesses that comprise 9th Street from the tracks on across Broadway.

More neon for Auto Alley, this time for HSE architecture just south of 9th on the east side of Broadway (thanks to Urban Pioneer):



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hse1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hse2.jpg

I am really liking what is happening in Automobile Alley recently. It looks amazing at night with all the neon.

I am really liking what is happening in Automobile Alley recently. It looks amazing at night with all the neon.

Actually, I think they should start taking down some of that neon. It's just getting too visually noisy....

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Just kidding! :wink:

I am really liking what is happening in Automobile Alley recently. It looks amazing at night with all the neon.
Some of what you are seeing (specifically in the case the neon) is actually the result of work that was done in the mid to late nineties, after the bombing. There were a series of design charrettes for north Broadway, and organizational and other brainstorming, put together by then-Mayor Ron Norick and stakeholders in the district. The Automobile Alley Main Street Program grew out of that. At the time in those sessions, the idea came up to reintroduce neon to the district. It was specifically championed by Rand Elliott and Meg Salyer.

The Automobile Alley Main Street Program design committee (on which Rand served) came up with the idea to use incentives to get property owners to use neon. The idea was to create an incentive grant fund that would pay for half of the cost of a neon sign, up to $1000 (these days that would come nowhere close to halfway to funding most of the signs I see). They asked the board to help get it funded, and Meg made the ask to the Kirkpatrick Family Fund, who came up with $10,000 in grant money, or the equivalent of ten signs. To qualify, the signs had to be reviewed and approved by the design committee. The first recipient installation was the modest ADT sign at 800 N Broadway.

I know that at least one additional round of $10K came from the same source, after the first round was used up. I'm not sure if the program still exists, but that was the catalyst, and was a decisive point that HELPED create the great neighborhood we see emerging.

I bring this up mostly to illustrate that, despite how much we want things to change TODAY - and despite the impression we sometimes get that something actually DID happen suddenly - great, fundamental changes like the ones that have happened along Broadway usually take time, planning, and lots of work, especially behind-the-scenes. Sometimes small, good decisions that we make (or don't make) today are the tipping point that will create (or fail to create, if not undertaken) a sea change in a neighborhood, and often it can't be truly appreciated until years or even decades later.

Some of what you are seeing (specifically in the case the neon) is actually the result of work that was done in the mid to late nineties, after the bombing. There were a series of design charrettes for north Broadway, and organizational and other brainstorming, put together by then-Mayor Ron Norick and stakeholders in the district. The Automobile Alley Main Street Program grew out of that. At the time in those sessions, the idea came up to reintroduce neon to the district. It was specifically championed by Rand Elliott and Meg Salyer.

The Automobile Alley Main Street Program design committee (on which Rand served) came up with the idea to use incentives to get property owners to use neon. The idea was to create an incentive grant fund that would pay for half of the cost of a neon sign, up to $1000 (these days that would come nowhere close to halfway to funding most of the signs I see). They asked the board to help get it funded, and Meg made the ask to the Kirkpatrick Family Fund, who came up with $10,000 in grant money, or the equivalent of ten signs. To qualify, the signs had to be reviewed and approved by the design committee. The first recipient installation was the modest ADT sign at 800 N Broadway.

I know that at least one additional round of $10K came from the same source, after the first round was used up. I'm not sure if the program still exists, but that was the catalyst, and was a decisive point HELPED create the great neighborhood we see emerging.

I bring this up mostly to illustrate that, despite how much we want things to change TODAY - and despite the impression we sometimes get that something actually DID happen suddenly - great, fundamental changes like the ones that have happened along Broadway usually take time, planning, and lots of work, especially behind-the-scenes. Sometimes small, good decisions that we make (or don't make) today are the tipping point that will create (or fail to create, if not undertaken) a sea change in a neighborhood, and often it can't be truly appreciated until years or even decades later.

The Kirkpatracks have done so much for OKC that the average citizen doesn't know about. In many ways, OKC would be a cultural desert if not for them and their giving.

Plenty Mercantile now willing to book events on the roof after September 1, 2013:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1044393_254222488036289_1376734849_n.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=254222488036289&set=a.164434183681787.15932.125154924276380&type=1)

So, evidently, they're expecting this to be ready in a couple of months.

Drove by AA this weekend, noticed the Cricket Wireless space next to Treasures Past is up for lease. Hopefully we will see a more exciting tenant soon.

Yeah, the for lease sign has been up for a month or more. Would love to see someone have enough vision to give up the 3-4 parking spaces in front and turn that into patio dining, perhaps even covered. Would be absolutely killer for that. The large setback is mostly a liability otherwise.

Plenty Mercantile now willing to book events on the roof after September 1, 2013:
...
So, evidently, they're expecting this to be ready in a couple of months.

Or perhaps, sometime in August. :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/994202_255326767925861_1132411478_n.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=255326767925861&set=a.164425290349343.15930.125154924276380&type=1)

Or perhaps, sometime in August. :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/994202_255326767925861_1132411478_n.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=255326767925861&set=a.164425290349343.15930.125154924276380&type=1)

August is such a great time to be on a roof in OKC!

[edit] Can't believe this was my 4,000th post. Rather ho-hum. I'll try better on my 5,000th. [edit]

August is such a great time to be on a roof in OKC!

[edit] Can't believe this was my 4,000th post. Rather ho-hum. I'll try better on my 5,000th. [edit]

It's not so bad in the evenings. It's great to see OKC getting more spaces like this.

August is such a great time to be on a roof in OKC!

Actually it is. At 6:30 in the morning.

Just be sure to be off the roof by 7:00 am.

:wink:

There is a pile of gravel, a pile of sand and a porta-potty on the empty lot at the northwest corner of 13th and Broadway, but no sign or anything else.

There is a pile of gravel, a pile of sand and a porta-potty on the empty lot at the northwest corner of 13th and Broadway, but no sign or anything else.

That entire corner is still owned by the Bob Moore group -- hasn't changed hands in 10 years.

Couldn't find any sort of building permit.

The Pontiac. Why not turn that upper floor into living space?
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/9233179589_7cfbf93456_b.jpg

Just a random alley in Automobile Alley...
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3820/9235976818_00a5b304f5_b.jpg

I missed some signs. Oh well...next time.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2809/9235963628_cbc4aa174b_b.jpg

Plenty Mercantile now willing to book events on the roof after September 1, 2013:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1044393_254222488036289_1376734849_n.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=254222488036289&set=a.164434183681787.15932.125154924276380&type=1)

So, evidently, they're expecting this to be ready in a couple of months.

Meh. Another private rooftop space for special occasions does nothing for me. Why cant we get a rooftop space occupied by a full time bar and/or restaurant? Packards doesnt count. One small, slow bar serving drinks in plastic cups isnt what Im talking about.

Bossa Nova (cafe do rooftop) is pretty close. It has a full service bar and stays open till 2 on summer weekends. Also the ambassador's rooftop seems like it will be a fulltime bar/restaurant.

More neon is on the way and this sounds impressive.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3869702?embargo=1


The 15-year effort to bathe Broadway with neon light — echoing back to its hey day as the city's premier automobile alley — is set to get its biggest addition yet with recreation of a 24-by-23-foot “Buick” rooftop sign that likely will be seen from miles away.

Chris Fleming, a partner in the Midtown Renaissance development group, said the sign is being modeled after one pictured atop the four-story former dealership at 1101 N Broadway more than a half century ago.

“This is an old-style, retro look, where we will be taking the Buick logo and creating lettering 9 inches thick,” said J&B Graphics owner Bob Morris. “The way it's designed, the Buick name will look like it's floating in the air. It will be a real showpiece.”

You can see a rendering here... Very cool!

The Oklahoman (http://oklahoman.com/news)

Love that neon. There's a new company going in on Broadway called Ratio, I believe. They've got a cool "coming soon" sign.

There's a new company going in on Broadway called Ratio, I believe. They've got a cool "coming soon" sign.

Ratio 2 shoe store to be located at 710 N. Broadway.

That's it! AA is becoming a legit urban shopping street.. there goes the neighborhood.

We now have a district with critical retail mass.

Can you guys close your eyes and envision all this neon, all this retail, and all this life on what is clearly OKC's most grandiose street - with the STREETCAR gliding past.

To me that's why it's so important that we get the streetcar down AA because there's still a lot of upsides here. I bet we could catch the attention of UO or Gap soon, and there are still plenty surface lots along here to be filled in.

We just don't notice the surface lots so much because the historic fabric on the west side of the street is so in tact.

AA really needs some infill residential.

The Metropolitan will help, as will a quiet zone.

But there is tons of great space near the RR tracks that would be perfect for some smaller housing projects... And maybe a couple of larger ones as well.

As an Automobile Alley biz, love seeing what's happening with the neon (Can't wait to get ours once we are street facing) and the new businesses. Development of the two buildings on the northside of 10th will be great when it happens. Lofts on those upper floors are something I would definitely be interested in.

As an Automobile Alley biz, love seeing what's happening with the neon (Can't wait to get ours once we are street facing) and the new businesses. Development of the two buildings on the northside of 10th will be great when it happens. Lofts on those upper floors are something I would definitely be interested in.

Do you have a feel for how other AA merchants / businesses feel about the streetcar?

It's been suggested that some would rather not have it.

AA really needs some infill residential.

What ever happened to the studies done by 9th street a couple years ago? They asked the public for ideas about what to do/could be done with the street. I remember suggesting some mixed use developments with residential. It doesn't seem any plans ever surfaced after planning, no?

Do you have a feel for how other AA merchants / businesses feel about the streetcar?

It's been suggested that some would rather not have it.

That's insane considering I don't know who else would stand to benefit more from the streetcar than retailers in a parking-limited district.

A couple of perspectives on the new quiet zone proposal from business owners in the area.

Downtown Oklahoma City merchant hopes proposed quiet zone helps mute passing trains | News OK (http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-city-merchant-hopes-proposed-quiet-zone-helps-mute-passing-trains/article/3870031/?page=2)

Do you have a feel for how other AA merchants / businesses feel about the streetcar?

It's been suggested that some would rather not have it.

I think some of the opposition is coming from a local architect, who objects to an overhead wire. I agree that AA is the corridor most appropriate for the streetcar -- and historically Broadway had one.

The sign is killer. Love it.

A couple of perspectives on the new quiet zone proposal from business owners in the area.

Downtown Oklahoma City merchant hopes proposed quiet zone helps mute passing trains | News OK (http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-city-merchant-hopes-proposed-quiet-zone-helps-mute-passing-trains/article/3870031/?page=2)

Seems like Bill Crum has successfully found a way to portray the quiet zone proposal as a means of making morning yoga more peaceful at the expense of hard-working and industrious business. Unbelievable.

I guess if they can find opponents to the streetcar going through AA, they can find opponents to the quiet zone, too. Why don't they just come out and see these are people who aren't exactly committed to downtown's revitalization, and neither is the Oklahoman which has gone back to pandering to less urbane interests in the interests of appearing "fair and balanced."

Do you have a feel for how other AA merchants / businesses feel about the streetcar?

It's been suggested that some would rather not have it.

I don't know if it's a controversial opinion, but I wouldn't mind having one to take me and the folks of my staff quickly between AA and downtown. We have clients who are in leadership square, the chase building and first national. Driving down there seems a waste - and it usually takes longer to find a parking space than to drive.

Anyone notice the overwhelming poll numbers on NewsOK right now that insist the trains downtown are fine?


I wonder how many voters are aware that people live downtown now?

I hope this quiet zone gets done, but I'm not optimistic about it. Seems like there's a ton of negativity surrounding it.

Anyone notice the overwhelming poll numbers on NewsOK right now that insist the trains downtown are fine?


I wonder how many voters are aware that people live downtown now?

In the last month the Oke's downtown news coverage has become decidedly harmful to downtown.

They need to figure out whose side they're on.

I hope this quiet zone gets done, but I'm not optimistic about it. Seems like there's a ton of negativity surrounding it.

I think it's just a vocal minority.

This will get done as there are many businesses and land owners that will benefit.

The least that article could have done is include the fact that there are MANY people that live along this same RR that live just a handful of feet away at some parts.

The least that article could have done is include the fact that there are MANY people that live along this same RR that live just a handful of feet away at some parts.

Nope. It's just some yoga studio. That's all there is.

Nope. It's just some yoga studio. That's all there is.

Lol.



Going off the comments of that article and the poll on NewsOK right now, I wonder if NewsOK just needs to occasionally fuel the fire that is their main readership group - bitter suburbanites that think too much money is going downtown.

I think it's just a vocal minority.

This will get done as there are many businesses and land owners that will benefit.

Calling them a vocal minority is generous. It's just two businesses out of a multitude of several. Remember, this is partially being funded by the businesses along the RR, so I doubt it would have happened if they didn't support it. Plus the city has a proverbial gun to its head to implement this with the huge Metropolitan development.


Lol.

Going off the comments of that article and the poll on NewsOK right now, I wonder if NewsOK just needs to occasionally fuel the fire that is their main readership group - bitter suburbanites that think too much money is going downtown.

Never read the comments! NewsOK probably thought it was being smart by getting rid of anonymity with Facebook. They forgot that people nowadays have no shame.

Lol.



Going off the comments of that article and the poll on NewsOK right now, I wonder if NewsOK just needs to occasionally fuel the fire that is their main readership group - bitter suburbanites that think too much money is going downtown.

And they're doing it with this new journalist, who they got from the Norman Transcript and who has a family that lives in Norman, who knows NOTHING about downtown. That is why all of his articles stoke that exact same fire over and over again.

When Lackmeyer does a story that paints a downtown boon in a bad light, it's a once in a year occurrence and that's just a unique quirk in his viewpoint. We get it, Lackmeyer won't be defending the streetcar with his pen, okay. But with Bill Crum every single article is like this.

It's as if he is still writing to a Norman Transcript readership and not to an audience of people who go downtown. His articles are atrociously bad. Crum needs to ask his colleague in the Dark Tower for some help and guidance next time he writes a piece about downtown.

It is not the role of the press to advocate one way or the other unless clearly stated and put in the editorial section. Otherwise, they are to be fair, balanced and truthful. Usually people feel like that is accomplished when the article presents a story that if favorable with their own viewpoint and when it doesn't it is easy to claim press bias.

I don't usually feel the Oklahoman writes stories to disguise an editorial...they aren't bashful about those anyway. My issue is the lack of quality of the writing and the thoroughness of the research. I don't think it is bias as much as it is the general degradation of quality.

I'm sorry, there's always a side. Always. To say that there's not a side or to be oblivious of that is either so incredibly stupid that would be shocking for you, Rover. I'm not making money off of this and the only dog I have in this fight is that I want to see OKC thrive into a great city, and I pay attention, and know what is what so don't give me this "fair and balanced" malarkey.

In fact most TV news employ monikers like "News on your side."
7 on your side - Google otsing (http://www.google.ee/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=7+on+your+side#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=3cd05062573ef338&q=on+your+side+news)
It seems to be a theme with ABC affiliates in particular. This concept implies that "we're on your side, not on the side of people who have financial interests in public affairs."

The bottom line is that these seasoned journalists have no excuse for doing such surface level stories, research, and not digging into what everyone on this board knows about these issues. In fact it's incumbent on them to know more than message board people, and it's embarrassing that they don't.

It's not a matter of "thoroughness of research" it's that the only way you can be so inept as a journalist is if you're doing it on purpose. You leave out viewpoints, issues, arguments, and tons of sources purposefully and that is what is at play the last few times the Oke has covered a major downtown issue.

edit: personal attacks self-removed out of respect

Objectivity is a myth as we always bring our ignorance, bias, culture, etc. into our efforts, but we can strive towards being fair. Using the word "fair" admits our biases, but recognizes efforts to consider multiple perspectives and present a situation honestly. Sorry. Its more semantics than anything.

Pete mentioned the 1949 Sanborn map as authority for 1101 N Broadway "originally" being the Oklahoma City Regional Office of the VA. As I recall, before the OKC office was established in the late summer of 1946, the building was an auto agency -- but not for Pontiac; I remember it as featuring Pirelli tires. The pontiac agency, "Chieftrain Pontiac," was across the street at 1100, and the service department was on the second floor.

My father transferred from the wartime Guayule project into the VA in early 1946, and was originally based in Muskogee. We spent the summer of 1946 there. However toward the end of the summer, the OKC office came into being and he became the training officer in charge of its "special rehab" unit -- dealing with the most severely disabled veterans, including those blinded among others. Among those whom he shepherded through college was a personable young fellow named Hez Bussey, who lost his sight in a Japanese POW camp due to malnutrition. A more tragic case was the fellow from Hollis who had a perfectly legal 300% disability; the law set loss of any single major sense such as sight, hearing, or smell as 100% disability by definition, and a Japanese bullet through his head had cost him his sight, taste, and sense of smell, all three. Unable to adjust, he eventually committed suicide.

Later, the VA office moved across Broadway to a magnificent white marble building that's no longer there. By the mid-50s, it was down on 5th street at the location later occupied by the Murrah Building. That was where I filed my own claim for service-connected disability in 1954, at the urging of my father.

It's good to see AA coming back at long last!

Objectivity is a myth as we always bring our ignorance, bias, culture, etc. into our efforts, but we can strive towards being fair. Using the word "fair" admits our biases, but recognizes efforts to consider multiple perspectives and present a situation honestly. Sorry. Its more semantics than anything.

Like? Maybe even love

The bottom line is that these seasoned journalists have no excuse for doing such surface level stories, research, and not digging into what everyone on this board knows about these issues. In fact it's incumbent on them to know more than message board people, and it's embarrassing that they don't.Once again, one of my hottest hot-buttons has been pressed by this. It's not always, or even often, malfeasance on the part of "these seasoned journalists" that results in unbalanced coverage when the presses finally roll. It's the editors, and above them the publishers, who set and enforce the rules.

More than 50 years ago, my city editor at the Oklahoman told me in so many words that "it isn't news until we print it," when he was ordering me to ignore a meeting of concerned parents to protest the location of a proposed elementary school in SW OKC. Since I had hungry kids at home to feed, I followed my orders -- but when an opportunity presented itself, left OPubCo for good even thought it involved moving to California to do so.

Before leaving Oklahoma, I had very close contact with a staff member for Walter Harrison (former managing editor for OPubCo, who had broken with the giant) at The North Star, his weekly paper that offered opposing viewpoints. I was told that the Skipper's secret files contained enough documented material to totally destroy the existing power structure, but that he would not publish it because 'the devil we know is better than the devil we don't" and the threat of him making the material public helped prevent too many excesses.

I have no way to determine the truth of that claim, and after the Skipper's death no such files reached public view. However after the 1982 implosion of Penn Square Bank, much of the predicted collapse did come to pass...

Don't sell the staff writers short. Just be thankful that they're allowed to tell us as much as they are! It's a lot more than we had available in the late 50s!

Didn't a developer recently announce a 300-unit apartment to be built between Oklahoma & I-235, from 6th to 9th Streets? I can't find where it is on this board.

Didn't a developer recently announce a 300-unit apartment to be built between Oklahoma & I-235, from 6th to 9th Streets? I can't find where it is on this board.

Metropolitan - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Metropolitan&highlight=metropolitan)

I think some of the opposition is coming from a local architect, who objects to an overhead wire. I agree that AA is the corridor most appropriate for the streetcar -- and historically Broadway had one.

The sign is killer. Love it.
It still isn't overhead wires like they have in Japan, they are everywhere there.
http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120117&t=2&i=559512069&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=390&r=2012-01-17T204524Z_01_SR1E81H0ZQT21_RTRRPP_0_JAPAN

It still isn't overhead wires like they have in Japan, they are everywhere there.
http://s3.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20120117&t=2&i=559512069&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=390&r=2012-01-17T204524Z_01_SR1E81H0ZQT21_RTRRPP_0_JAPAN

It's not even overhead "wires" like we've seen in the US. It's actually overhead "wire." We saw a train with the single catenary wire in Barcelona and you barely even noticed it's there.