I would like to open a mobile food cart like I have seen in NYC. Does anybody think there is a market for that in Downtown OKC with all the stuff going on?

I would like to open a mobile food cart like I have seen in NYC. Does anybody think there is a market for that in Downtown OKC with all the stuff going on?

My guess is that yes there is. While working in downtown Tampa I ate at the sidewalk vendors almost every day.

Someone a while back was kicking about the idea of a dawgs cart down in bricktown. Not sure what ever happened to it.

It ought to be a doable enterprise, notwithstanding the food trucks that are now available.

I definitely think it can work, especially if 1) you bring a new/unique product to OKC that isn't already there and 2) if you can be flexible in hours and/or location.

One thing I find rather interesting, is the LACK OF CHICAGO STYLE foods in Oklahoma City. I can not think of 1 place that serves Chicago-Style hot dogs, Chicago Deep Dish pizza, or Maxwell Street Beef, so on. I think this would be a HUGE hit, especially if you were able to locate in the CBD area (say near city hall or Kerr Park) in the daytime and near the border of LB and Bricktown at night, particularly game nights and weekends.

Other concepts not currently in the metro area should do very well. But longjevity all depends upon price point and food quality (and often quantity). ...

Good luck and PLEASE!!! consider expanding OKC's downtown eating options.

yes there IS a market for this. There are also 2 carts and several food trucks already downtown. DT could support more, especially with Devon construction workers. There are other threads on this topic for ideas. HOTROD there are places in metro that have those foods, if you lived in OKC you'd know :)

HOTROD there are places in metro that have those foods, if you lived in OKC you'd know :)

Yes, there are. The first one that comes to mind is the Chicago-style dog at the Prohibition room. kinda pricey for a hot dog, but it's there.

One thing I find rather interesting, is the LACK OF CHICAGO STYLE foods in Oklahoma City. I can not think of 1 place that serves Chicago-Style hot dogs, Chicago Deep Dish pizza, or Maxwell Street Beef, so on.
There have been a few over the years, the last one that I remember was on NW 23rd just east of Meridian. It was pretty good food (no pizza but the dogs & beef) and the prices were decent. Went to it one day and it was closed, never heard of any reason why but it never seemed very busy, I don't think it was a good location for that type of food (and I grew up in that area).

Taste of Chicago was the place east of Meridian on N.W. 23rd. I liked its Vienna Beef hot dogs and chili covered tamales. It has since been a short live mecicanr restaurant, then El Pollo Chulo and is now Jill's Grill.
I have always thought the location is difficult to get in and out of because traffic backs up from the stop light at 23rd and Meridian. It is difficult to exit the property and to turn left off of 23rd. I am not sure the demographics around the location was the best place for a Chicago style hot dog place. Anyone remember Max's Frisco Franks with Francene the Wiennie Queen at S.W. 89th and Western. It closed after Fancene's brother-in-law who was the owner died of a heart attack. She tried to open another location in Del City but it closed.

Bigray in Ok

What about Halal meat? When I'm in NYC I have to get my hands on some of that. Delish.

I definitely think it can work, especially if 1) you bring a new/unique product to OKC that isn't already there and 2) if you can be flexible in hours and/or location.

One thing I find rather interesting, is the LACK OF CHICAGO STYLE foods in Oklahoma City. I can not think of 1 place that serves Chicago-Style hot dogs, Chicago Deep Dish pizza, or Maxwell Street Beef, so on. I think this would be a HUGE hit, especially if you were able to locate in the CBD area (say near city hall or Kerr Park) in the daytime and near the border of LB and Bricktown at night, particularly game nights and weekends.

Other concepts not currently in the metro area should do very well. But longjevity all depends upon price point and food quality (and often quantity). ...

Good luck and PLEASE!!! consider expanding OKC's downtown eating options.

Try Old Chicago.

and OH, there is a guy that sells hot dogs from a cart on the street in Bricktown during big events, i.e. thunder games, and he was there NYE

Yes, I agreee with you Flippity; "KISS" approach is usually the best idea, you know, traditional street food, hot dogs, can cokes, chips and of course, hot chocolate this time of year!

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I previously operated hot dog cart in the area of which you speak of. always above board operation never a violation with Health Department. My business grew past this phase (within two years) and I recently sold my custom made HD cart. Partly because the health department regs for mobile vending carts (hot dog carts) has become more restrictive in the past year (much like the regs in Texas) and there are a lot of things that cannot be offered on the carts anymore. If you study the regs closely, operators of mobiel hot dog carts are required to operate from AN APPROVED Commissary Facility. This is a very subjective loophole that is open to interpretation to some of the health dept inspectors. The permitting and gray area became too much for my liking and I have since moved on into other ventures. The regs in Texas continue to restrict these types of carts (Oklahoma is following closely) and complying with all of the regs is getting very expensive for area operators who own small mobile carts.

That's why most here in Austin have gone to trailers, I don't recall seeing a cart anywhere anymore but you can find food trailers all over town with all sorts of different foods.

I previously operated hot dog cart in the area of which you speak of. always above board operation never a violation with Health Department. My business grew past this phase (within two years) and I recently sold my custom made HD cart. Partly because the health department regs for mobile vending carts (hot dog carts) has become more restrictive in the past year (much like the regs in Texas) and there are a lot of things that cannot be offered on the carts anymore. If you study the regs closely, operators of mobiel hot dog carts are required to operate from AN APPROVED Commissary Facility. This is a very subjective loophole that is open to interpretation to some of the health dept inspectors. The permitting and gray area became too much for my liking and I have since moved on into other ventures. The regs in Texas continue to restrict these types of carts (Oklahoma is following closely) and complying with all of the regs is getting very expensive for area operators who own small mobile carts.

I'm sorry to hear this, but not surprised. This city and state are very good at shooting themselves in the foot. Someone -- possibly Bricktown restaurant owners -- has probably gotten in through the back door to screw over the mobile carts.

That's why most here in Austin have gone to trailers, I don't recall seeing a cart anywhere anymore but you can find food trailers all over town with all sorts of different foods.

Yeah the Trailers are pretty cool there in Austin, they seem to favor the Airstream type with all that bright polished aluminum!

I have seen Cupcake trailers, sushi, burgers & dogs & tacos. I am sure there are others but they are nice looking!

It is unfortunate that the restrictions are so severe on the carts though, becuase the idea and nostalgia created by them add a sense of vibrancy and richness to the streets that they are positioned. Plus another job that is legislated out of existance. I am all for the entrepreneurs at all levels, and they should be encouraged not restricted. Plus it places another set of eyes on the street.

I'm sorry to hear this, but not surprised. This city and state are very good at shooting themselves in the foot. Someone -- possibly Bricktown restaurant owners -- has probably gotten in through the back door to screw over the mobile carts.


Now wait a minute... you say that as if it's unreasonable for a restaurant owner to have any concerns over mobile food carts.
Let me play devil's advocate here for a second: you invest your life savings in setting up a restaurant, you hire employees, and you commit yourself to staying open in Bricktown during good and bad times. Sure, it might be great when there big events at Ford Center or when the area is busy during spring and summer. But you're gasping for life in late December when the city is knee deep in snow and then staying indoors when the temperature hits 5 degrees.
You have no choice but to tough it out during these times, paying rent, which also includes the cost passed down by property owners for being a part of the business improvement district, etc. Maybe you even pay dues to the Bricktown Association to better promote the area and improve standards for how the area looks.
.........
So you have this restaurant, and maybe you're serving hamburgers, hot dogs, and basic fare. And then a cart parks in front of your place. They don't have to pay any rent, and they're free to come and go, basically cherry picking business when times are good.
Don't say this can't happen or doesn't happen. It's happening all the time now with some "retailers" who set up folding tables selling flashing teeth, shirts, etc., all in front of existing stores trying to surive on the canal (remember, the OKC Talk crowd has made it clear they think Bricktown has blown it when it comes to retail leasing).

OK folks, I like buying a street hot dog as much as the next guy. And certainly there's a place for that sort of thing. But is it fair to make this another case of "blame it on the bad guys in Bricktown"?

Now wait a minute... you say that as if it's unreasonable for a restaurant owner to have any concerns over mobile food carts.
Let me play devil's advocate here for a second: you invest your life savings in setting up a restaurant, you hire employees, and you commit yourself to staying open in Bricktown during good and bad times. Sure, it might be great when there big events at Ford Center or when the area is busy during spring and summer. But you're gasping for life in late December when the city is knee deep in snow and then staying indoors when the temperature hits 5 degrees.
You have no choice but to tough it out during these times, paying rent, which also includes the cost passed down by property owners for being a part of the business improvement district, etc. Maybe you even pay dues to the Bricktown Association to better promote the area and improve standards for how the area looks.
.........
So you have this restaurant, and maybe you're serving hamburgers, hot dogs, and basic fare. And then a cart parks in front of your place. They don't have to pay any rent, and they're free to come and go, basically cherry picking business when times are good.
Don't say this can't happen or doesn't happen. It's happening all the time now with some "retailers" who set up folding tables selling flashing teeth, shirts, etc., all in front of existing stores trying to surive on the canal (remember, the OKC Talk crowd has made it clear they think Bricktown has blown it when it comes to retail leasing).

OK folks, I like buying a street hot dog as much as the next guy. And certainly there's a place for that sort of thing. But is it fair to make this another case of "blame it on the bad guys in Bricktown"?

Whatever. Some people like food from mobile carts and find the idea of Bricktown restaurant owners ganging up on them to be unsavory.

Perhaps Steve is suggesting we can't have mobile carts because the restaurant owners have invested their blood, sweat and tears into their restaurants, and they shouldn't have to compete with someone pushing a cart.

Well, "whatever" is one response. Actually, I've not heard of any Bricktown restaurants at odds with cart owners. What I'm asking is whether how any of you would feel though if it were you operating a restaurant with a cart parked out front.

Soonerguru makes a valid point. One of the main reasons the Texas HD (and now the OKC HD) has become more restrictive on these types of moble cart operations is to regulate the "outlaw setups" that have plagued the areas in recent years. The HD had to come up with specific regs that had not been on the books in previous years in order to try to eliminate some of these "fly-by-nighters" that setup on the corners, get run off by property owners or the HD and then quickly setup somewhere else without permission or regulated. These regulations are need to protect the public and to protect those of us who play by the rules. It is expensive, can be rewarding, and if you are a people person - it's also a lot of fun!

As a professional moble food vendor, I continually spend a lot of financial resources to comply with the changing guidelines of the HD and am very proud that I have earned an excellent reputation with the HD and the public trust. This has always been very important to me and my business has grown exponentially over the past several years. Professional moble vendors operate in like capacity as restaurant owners (and should be expected to do so). Like any good business, it requires continued financial investment & capitol and a dedication to succeed.

As a previous cart operator, we now operate trailers and frequent many of the festivals and shows across the southwest. I believe there is a great opportunity for carts on OKC (as we have benefitted from this). We simply grew our business model beyond this level and look forward to our continued growth in the industry. Our customers continue to be happy, the HD is happy (we enjoy a great communication experience with them) and we continue to be blessed in our moble food business.

Steve - I appologize, I meant to also say that I agree with your point of view also. The local restaurant owners have a huge financial stake in the game, and their voice should be (and is) heard. I have not nor would never set up in front of a competing fixed location establishment. This is bad for everyone and I also believe that it's bad Karma for those that do this. There is a place at the table for good vendors and a healthy medium between restaurant owners and moble street vendors.

Aren't cart customers typically individuals who are looking for "hand food" (simple fuel in their gut) on the fly?

And restaurant customers typically groups who are looking for the opportunity to sit down and converse with greater food options?

Steve, I see your point on cherry-picking, but I can't really see that the cart vendors are cannibalizing (um, sorry) the business going to the restaurants.

Well, "whatever" is one response. Actually, I've not heard of any Bricktown restaurants at odds with cart owners. What I'm asking is whether how any of you would feel though if it were you operating a restaurant with a cart parked out front.

It depends on what I was selling.

If I had a hotdog restaurant and I was charging $10 for a "hot dog lunch", I'd be pissed if a cart set up outside my place.

I'd also deserve to have that happen.

It's called competition. Sure, I could keep the cart from being right outside my establishment, but I shouldn't be able to ban it from Bricktown altogether. That's nuts.

I think the carts are great. There is the "Disco Dog" and another one that frequent Bricktown after 10 PM. They add character to the sidewalk and oh... Delicous.

I don't think restaurants should be worried. These vendors are out there after 10 PM when many "sit downs" are closed. I-Hop I can tell you, is not hurting during that time slot. Lol

If anything, we need more of them. There are only a few establishements open. I-Hop and Prohibition Room, and other typical fast food.

Now wait a minute... you say that as if it's unreasonable for a restaurant owner to have any concerns over mobile food carts.
Let me play devil's advocate here for a second: you invest your life savings in setting up a restaurant, you hire employees, and you commit yourself to staying open in Bricktown during good and bad times. Sure, it might be great when there big events at Ford Center or when the area is busy during spring and summer. But you're gasping for life in late December when the city is knee deep in snow and then staying indoors when the temperature hits 5 degrees.
You have no choice but to tough it out during these times, paying rent, which also includes the cost passed down by property owners for being a part of the business improvement district, etc. Maybe you even pay dues to the Bricktown Association to better promote the area and improve standards for how the area looks.
.........
So you have this restaurant, and maybe you're serving hamburgers, hot dogs, and basic fare. And then a cart parks in front of your place. They don't have to pay any rent, and they're free to come and go, basically cherry picking business when times are good.
Don't say this can't happen or doesn't happen. It's happening all the time now with some "retailers" who set up folding tables selling flashing teeth, shirts, etc., all in front of existing stores trying to surive on the canal (remember, the OKC Talk crowd has made it clear they think Bricktown has blown it when it comes to retail leasing).

OK folks, I like buying a street hot dog as much as the next guy. And certainly there's a place for that sort of thing. But is it fair to make this another case of "blame it on the bad guys in Bricktown"?



Steve, I totally side with you on this. Being a small business owner, I understand the costs of having a brick and mortar establishment versus a mobile food cart thats basically a fly by night operation.

Solution: Have a designated area in Bricktown somewhat away from the restaurants where ALL of the mobile food carts can set up. That way, they are separated from the restaurants.

The Fiesta Odelay taco truck just took out a pickup truck parked on Park.

Steve,

As a business owner, I may have strong "feelings" against any and all kinds of competition.

Realistically, if I have a brick and mortar establishment, I have more to offer on the menu than what can be accommodated in a mobile cart.

I would probably have comfortable seating out of the elements.

I might have a plush bar area in which I can sell alcoholic drinks at a high margin.

But it really might hurt my "feelings" if some guy is selling halal meat and pita bread outside? Perhaps if this hurt my "feelings" I should consider whether I have the intestinal fortitude to make it in the restaurant business. And if my feelings are that some guy selling food from a cart is going to hurt my business, then it may be time to evaluate the quality of restaurant I have.

Regarding my use of the term "whatever," the implication is that this thread is about OKCTalk members' enthusiasm for mobile carts, not the feelings of jilted restaurateurs.

I will only speak for myself and my experiences with hot dog carts and mobile food trailers regarding the "fly by nighters" comment from GQ (no offense was taken); furthemore. We operate with signed contractural agreements with our property owners and hold ALL permits including very expensive zoning permits that are issued from the municipality (and difficult to ogtain). In an average month our rent payment for a particular location (paying a percentage of our daily gross) nets the property owner approximately $500-$800 per month (an average spot on the concrete measuring 12'x12'). In addition, cart permits, zoning permits (including everything that complies with local and state Health Dept regs) averages approximately $1500 annually. On top of that, we also carry liability & workers comp insurance (required) that on average cost $2500 annually. This is an expensive endeavor and trust me, I have met a lot of people who think its easy and cheap, but the cost is considerable. Granted, as I mentioned in a previous thread, many do not follow the letter of the law and they risk it all every time they pass a food product to the buying public. If any of those risk-takers (outlaw setups) every get hammered with a lawsuit or someone gets sick or seriously injured, the municipality AND the health department has the authority to pursue criminal action against those violators, and in most cases the penalty is extremely harsh and expensive. The "outlaws" will usually be weeded out sooner or later. Some of us are restaurant owners, our brick & mortar just happens to have a set of wheels on them...