Red Dirt, I don't disagree with the jist of your post. You've made a personal journey and you have a point of view which serves you well. When I was 20, I didn't know much about urban living, but I had a damn good fake ID and could tell you instinctively that there was a huge difference between the OKC of the 1990s and the St. Louis of the 1990s. Not everyone can travel to 40 different cities, and the level of comfort that one feels when one is 20 or 21 or 22 can make a huge difference as to where they choose to start their life. More to the point, I wanted to encourage Maniacal Pope that he has the right to express his point of view as he is at the point where he is starting to make those decisions. I do disagree that "everyone" who is 26 wants to go back to Oklahoma. What generally happens, in my experience, is that people often choose a city right out of college for whatever reason and their lives begin to take shape in that city, making it less likely they will pick up and move back. We do have to think about a 20-year old's impressions rather than just assuming they will go out into the world and then "see the light."

Point taken, I guess I'm just tired of hearing there is nothing to do here, and that we have some non existent music scene. So I thought correcting that assumption from someone so young in their adulthood would help the rest of the people reading this think that all young people think that way.

May have come off as prickish, but I just wanted to correct some things. OKC is not for everyone but those were not good reasons. It almost completely has to do with the amount of high paying jobs and upward mobility, something OKC is starting to do very well in.

Red Dirt, one more post and then back to work. I agree that there is plenty to do in OKC, much more than 10 years ago. I guess if we get back to the point of the original question: OKC should do everything in it's power to promote the many good things that are there, keep working on improving the quality of life, so that there can be no doubt on the part of the casual visitor of whatever age. It's so hard to shake initial impressions, and it can be unfair. Show up in the wrong part of St. Louis and this is a dirty, dangerous city. Show up on the right day in the right neighborhood, and New York has nothing on us. Show up in OKC on a rainy Tuesday and you might be bored, and if it comports with an already-held bias, it can be deadly. Get frustrated when you are 20 (or to be more fair, 21) and that hurts. Those 2 or 3 years do more for keeping or pushing people out if a city than any other time period. Not fair but that's how it works for a lot of people.

As far as walkability goes, it depends on where you're walking, and to where. To be honest with you, I think that the aread bounded by Walker, 10th St., the Broadway Extension and Reno is very walkable. I walk it all the time, and there are sidewalks everywhere. I can get to the drycleaners, the YMCA. the Ford Center, the Art Musuem, the Harkins Theater, Trattoria Il Centro or the Myriad Gardens without ever once having to worry about where I will walk. It's pretty comparable to when I lived in Denver. It's not as pretty as some other cities yet, but it's pretty walkable. Oklahoma City loses walkability in the newer parts of town. One of those reasons is because there are no sidewalks. The other is because Oklahoma City is so young that you don't have the little two to ten block areas that were old retail centers that can be renovated and once again become locations for restaurants and retail. The Plaza District, the Paseo, 23rd St., and Capitol Hill are some areas that come to mind that have that potential or are already developed, and, if you live close to one of them, your area is or will almost assuredly become very walkable. But, if you live in a neighborhood off May Ave. north, or in Putnam City, there are no old retail centers, and there's not much within walking distance, because we've always had cars since those areas were developed. I suspect the same is true in other cities as well, but because those cities are far older and many of the neighborhoods were developed in the pre-car era, those old retail centers exist, to be renovated and renewed.

I did not want to go back and look at all the previous posts on the subject but has anyone mentioned the lack of a state personal or corporate income tax in Texas? This is a major factor in Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston's growth since the late 1960's. Even Pennzoil and Quaker State moved their headquarters to Dallas to avoid paying the corporate income tax. I do not want Oklahoma City to become another Dallas or Houston, especially with the traffic problems but I would like to see OKC's economy diversify beyond energy, agriculture, bio-science, and government.

Bigrayok

So the much higher property taxes of Texas are economically preferable to the income tax of Oklahoma? If so, why??? Or does it make no difference to corporate execs and CEOs? Probably in Texas the hub airports and better choice of people to hire from both over rule the taxation issue.

I fear I may just be repeating myself but anyway...

No, I cannot get into a club after 9:00 p.m. or -legally- drink because I'm only 20, but reality comes into play and other options and an 'underground' scene become a necessity. Tons of people drink and get into these things far before 21. Even 21+ the underground scene is important. OKC is lacking in that area. It IS there but not as developed and to the extent of a lot of other cities. Clubs and such do play a role in things, but they're only one ingredient in the mix.

Same with the music scene, I never said it wasn't there it's just not as developed and big and varied as others. Also, it's not that there's nothing to do, it's that there's a very poor amount of stuff to do when you compare. I know it might be a great and happening city eventually and it requires young people like me to be there and make it happen but frankly I'm just not willing to spend my youth making a place appealing to the youth that'll come after me. I want to be where things are the most dynamic and developed and progressive (not in terms of political leanings). That's just not OKC.

I agree these may seem like poor reasons in picking a city when you look at the long term, but they're high up there in importance to most young people. OKC does satisfy long term needs but again, that's something many other places do just as well while offering many other things to a much better degree than OKC does. OKC was pretty far behind in the first place before all of what's going on now started happening, it's still in the catch-up stage.

I'll chime in on the whole right wing nutzo thing also. I don't believe Oklahoma is really as bad as it's usually made out to be in those terms. I'm a gay bleeding heart liberal atheist and VERY loud and passionate about who I am and my views, but I've never faced any more discrimination other than little bits like you'd expect anywhere else. Most of the people here are extremely tolerant of it and willing to be civil even if they think you're an evil person. But when I travel out of state or talk with people out of state and they learn about what kind of person I am & that I live in Oklahoma the first reaction is always something to the effect of, "Dang that's gotta suck!".

That right there is where the problem lies, the perception people have of the state, not the reality. Our loonies (loonies in the view of most others) are the loudest and most visible. If you look at it as an outsider with the information most available Oklahoma seems very backwards and just plain out unpleasant. Our politicians especially are pretty undesirable to most people. People look at them and assume they're like a lot of the people in the state because they won the votes, and imagining a state full of Jim Inhofes and Mary Fallins is a pretty frightening prospect to most, especially the more left-leaning youth. Basically, Oklahomans are fine when it comes to these things, we just have an image that suggests the opposite.

I'll chime in on the whole right wing nutzo thing also. I don't believe Oklahoma is really as bad as it's usually made out to be in those terms. I'm a gay bleeding heart liberal atheist and VERY loud and passionate about who I am and my views, but I've never faced any more discrimination other than little bits like you'd expect anywhere else. Most of the people here are extremely tolerant of it and willing to be civil even if they think you're an evil person. But when I travel out of state or talk with people out of state and they learn about what kind of person I am & that I live in Oklahoma the first reaction is always something to the effect of, "Dang that's gotta suck!".

That right there is where the problem lies, the perception people have of the state, not the reality. Our loonies (loonies in the view of most others) are the loudest and most visible. If you look at it as an outsider with the information most available Oklahoma seems very backwards and just plain out unpleasant. Our politicians especially are pretty undesirable to most people. People look at them and assume they're like a lot of the people in the state because they won the votes, and imagining a state full of Jim Inhofes and Mary Fallins is a pretty frightening prospect to most, especially the more left-leaning youth. Basically, Oklahomans are fine when it comes to these things, we just have an image that suggests the opposite.

Right. More Oklahoma people ought to take seriously your views on that subject because they are so very true, damn it! At least, I already know I won't be wrong and foolish enough to vote for Mary Fallin. I think too much of my state to do that. After all, I live here and think Edmondson has Oklahoma's interests more at heart over Fallin.

I fear I may just be repeating myself but anyway...

No, I cannot get into a club after 9:00 p.m. or -legally- drink because I'm only 20, but reality comes into play and other options and an 'underground' scene become a necessity. Tons of people drink and get into these things far before 21. Even 21+ the underground scene is important. OKC is lacking in that area. It IS there but not as developed and to the extent of a lot of other cities. Clubs and such do play a role in things, but they're only one ingredient in the mix.

Same with the music scene, I never said it wasn't there it's just not as developed and big and varied as others. Also, it's not that there's nothing to do, it's that there's a very poor amount of stuff to do when you compare. I know it might be a great and happening city eventually and it requires young people like me to be there and make it happen but frankly I'm just not willing to spend my youth making a place appealing to the youth that'll come after me. I want to be where things are the most dynamic and developed and progressive (not in terms of political leanings). That's just not OKC.

I agree these may seem like poor reasons in picking a city when you look at the long term, but they're high up there in importance to most young people. OKC does satisfy long term needs but again, that's something many other places do just as well while offering many other things to a much better degree than OKC does. OKC was pretty far behind in the first place before all of what's going on now started happening, it's still in the catch-up stage.

I'll chime in on the whole right wing nutzo thing also. I don't believe Oklahoma is really as bad as it's usually made out to be in those terms. I'm a gay bleeding heart liberal atheist and VERY loud and passionate about who I am and my views, but I've never faced any more discrimination other than little bits like you'd expect anywhere else. Most of the people here are extremely tolerant of it and willing to be civil even if they think you're an evil person. But when I travel out of state or talk with people out of state and they learn about what kind of person I am & that I live in Oklahoma the first reaction is always something to the effect of, "Dang that's gotta suck!".

That right there is where the problem lies, the perception people have of the state, not the reality. Our loonies (loonies in the view of most others) are the loudest and most visible. If you look at it as an outsider with the information most available Oklahoma seems very backwards and just plain out unpleasant. Our politicians especially are pretty undesirable to most people. People look at them and assume they're like a lot of the people in the state because they won the votes, and imagining a state full of Jim Inhofes and Mary Fallins is a pretty frightening prospect to most, especially the more left-leaning youth. Basically, Oklahomans are fine when it comes to these things, we just have an image that suggests the opposite.

ManiacalPope
You make many valued and valuable comments and I hope you will reconsider remaining in the City to help the movement to improve in many of the areas you mentioned

I fear I may just be repeating myself but anyway...

No, I cannot get into a club after 9:00 p.m. or -legally- drink because I'm only 20, but reality comes into play and other options and an 'underground' scene become a necessity. Tons of people drink and get into these things far before 21. Even 21+ the underground scene is important. OKC is lacking in that area. It IS there but not as developed and to the extent of a lot of other cities. Clubs and such do play a role in things, but they're only one ingredient in the mix.

Same with the music scene, I never said it wasn't there it's just not as developed and big and varied as others. Also, it's not that there's nothing to do, it's that there's a very poor amount of stuff to do when you compare. I know it might be a great and happening city eventually and it requires young people like me to be there and make it happen but frankly I'm just not willing to spend my youth making a place appealing to the youth that'll come after me. I want to be where things are the most dynamic and developed and progressive (not in terms of political leanings). That's just not OKC.

I agree these may seem like poor reasons in picking a city when you look at the long term, but they're high up there in importance to most young people. OKC does satisfy long term needs but again, that's something many other places do just as well while offering many other things to a much better degree than OKC does. OKC was pretty far behind in the first place before all of what's going on now started happening, it's still in the catch-up stage.

I'll chime in on the whole right wing nutzo thing also. I don't believe Oklahoma is really as bad as it's usually made out to be in those terms. I'm a gay bleeding heart liberal atheist and VERY loud and passionate about who I am and my views, but I've never faced any more discrimination other than little bits like you'd expect anywhere else. Most of the people here are extremely tolerant of it and willing to be civil even if they think you're an evil person. But when I travel out of state or talk with people out of state and they learn about what kind of person I am & that I live in Oklahoma the first reaction is always something to the effect of, "Dang that's gotta suck!".

That right there is where the problem lies, the perception people have of the state, not the reality. Our loonies (loonies in the view of most others) are the loudest and most visible. If you look at it as an outsider with the information most available Oklahoma seems very backwards and just plain out unpleasant. Our politicians especially are pretty undesirable to most people. People look at them and assume they're like a lot of the people in the state because they won the votes, and imagining a state full of Jim Inhofes and Mary Fallins is a pretty frightening prospect to most, especially the more left-leaning youth. Basically, Oklahomans are fine when it comes to these things, we just have an image that suggests the opposite.

Wow that was a fantastic response.

Every state has bad press.
But the problem is we have more kooks in office or wanting to be in office, where they can cost the state the opportunities, and have a impact on the course of Oklahoma.

I did not want to go back and look at all the previous posts on the subject but has anyone mentioned the lack of a state personal or corporate income tax in Texas? This is a major factor in Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston's growth since the late 1960's. Even Pennzoil and Quaker State moved their headquarters to Dallas to avoid paying the corporate income tax. I do not want Oklahoma City to become another Dallas or Houston, especially with the traffic problems but I would like to see OKC's economy diversify beyond energy, agriculture, bio-science, and government.

Bigrayok

Yes, this has been covered repeatedly, and Texas corps pay a franchise tax so it's a wash.

Companies moved to Texas to be near talent pool and transportation. Oklahoma already has a low-cost business environment. You might want to read the thread.

I fear I may just be repeating myself but anyway...

No, I cannot get into a club after 9:00 p.m. or -legally- drink because I'm only 20, but reality comes into play and other options and an 'underground' scene become a necessity. Tons of people drink and get into these things far before 21. Even 21+ the underground scene is important. OKC is lacking in that area. It IS there but not as developed and to the extent of a lot of other cities. Clubs and such do play a role in things, but they're only one ingredient in the mix.

Same with the music scene, I never said it wasn't there it's just not as developed and big and varied as others. Also, it's not that there's nothing to do, it's that there's a very poor amount of stuff to do when you compare. I know it might be a great and happening city eventually and it requires young people like me to be there and make it happen but frankly I'm just not willing to spend my youth making a place appealing to the youth that'll come after me. I want to be where things are the most dynamic and developed and progressive (not in terms of political leanings). That's just not OKC.

I agree these may seem like poor reasons in picking a city when you look at the long term, but they're high up there in importance to most young people. OKC does satisfy long term needs but again, that's something many other places do just as well while offering many other things to a much better degree than OKC does. OKC was pretty far behind in the first place before all of what's going on now started happening, it's still in the catch-up stage.

I'll chime in on the whole right wing nutzo thing also. I don't believe Oklahoma is really as bad as it's usually made out to be in those terms. I'm a gay bleeding heart liberal atheist and VERY loud and passionate about who I am and my views, but I've never faced any more discrimination other than little bits like you'd expect anywhere else. Most of the people here are extremely tolerant of it and willing to be civil even if they think you're an evil person. But when I travel out of state or talk with people out of state and they learn about what kind of person I am & that I live in Oklahoma the first reaction is always something to the effect of, "Dang that's gotta suck!".

That right there is where the problem lies, the perception people have of the state, not the reality. Our loonies (loonies in the view of most others) are the loudest and most visible. If you look at it as an outsider with the information most available Oklahoma seems very backwards and just plain out unpleasant. Our politicians especially are pretty undesirable to most people. People look at them and assume they're like a lot of the people in the state because they won the votes, and imagining a state full of Jim Inhofes and Mary Fallins is a pretty frightening prospect to most, especially the more left-leaning youth. Basically, Oklahomans are fine when it comes to these things, we just have an image that suggests the opposite.

This is outstanding. Great work.

Any chance OKC had at becoming a hub died when US Airways and America West merged in 2005. I am not even sure how the idea of a mini-hub would work. The thing with hubs like Dallas and Atlanta is that most people are connecting there so how would you get a passenger to a connecting flight via a mini-hub that would reduce flights at the original hub (which was the original intent)?

Now if OKC or the State were serious they could go after AirTran for a western hub. AirTran currently operates hubs in Atlanta, Milwaukee, and Baltimore plus major operations in Orlando.

Agree that going after a smaller airline might work. As far as the larger airlines go, I think part of our problem today is how few, if any, direct flights to major hubs we have. It seems like every third year an airline cuts St. Louis from our destinations, or some other major hub. For us to work as a back-up hub we basically have to have flights to all of the major hubs, and several a day. That doesn't mean we have to have as many offerings as DFW, but enough to make some connections across the country would do.

everyone talks of good paying jobs (in multiple threads) but Im curious as to what the $ consensus is of a "good paying job" to keep or attract the 25- 30 somethings. I think I know what a good paying job is, but im not sure if everyone's definition is above or below below mine.

There are industries right here in OKC starting undergrad college new hires with zero experience in the $50k-60k range and higher.

I think that there are two really antagonistic, self-defeatist, horrible "schools of thought" implicated when it comes to OKC being competitive. And they feed off of each other which makes it worse.

A lot of people seem to be in the, "Go back to New York with your crazy ideas. I don't want OKC to become any of those goddamn cities you mentioned." The other school of thought is, "Well little-minded Okie, the reason, and the only reason, we can't move ourselves forward is our location in the middle of backwards Oklahoma, rather than in Texas or New York."

It would be nice if we could strike a balance between the big city envy and big city hate people that are always speaking out here. The bottom line that the hate group needs to realize is that progress is something that will always happen, and the bottom line that the envy group needs to realize is that progress is happening, just not as fast or as dramatic as they would like.

The problem is that our city leaders act like battered house-wives, or like battering husbands. That's me putting words in your mouth.

There are industries right here in OKC starting undergrad college new hires with zero experience in the $50k-60k range and higher.

When I return to OKC, I will have 6 years of experience in the IT field, a degree (been there, done that) and several certs. I can't wait to get back!

The problem is that our city leaders act like battered house-wives, or like battering husbands. That's me putting words in your mouth.

Just for the record, in family court and GAL work, I saw at least as many battering "housewives" as their opposite. Actually, I saw much more. They did less damage and the men invariably took the fall if someone had to go to jail. They also seemed to think it was okay for a girl to hit a boy but the boy couldn't hit back...

Just for the record, in family court and GAL work, I saw at least as many battering "housewives" as their opposite. Actually, I saw much more. They did less damage and the men invariably took the fall if someone had to go to jail. They also seemed to think it was okay for a girl to hit a boy but the boy couldn't hit back...

Why do I suddenly have visions of Trinity from The Matrix dancing in my head.

I don't know how much light I will be able shed on the topic. All I can give is my own personal experience.

I graduated from high school in 2005 and went to the east coast for college. I graduated last may and there is one reason I didn't move back. Money. Yes I know that there are some decent paying jobs in the city, low cost of living (kind of), etc. but the kind of jobs that would pay me the kind of money I wanted were all in industries that I had no interest in. There are opportunities for great careers but I am not going to be a doctor or a lawyer, and I have no interest in working in oil & gas. Therefore, I had to rule OKC out. Simple as that.

In conclusion, I would say a diversification of industries with available jobs doing something more exciting than punching the clock and that pay in excess of 70k per year. If OKC had jobs like that, it would be on the upswing.

People always place too much emphasis on things to do. If you pay people enough, they will make their own fun.

People always place too much emphasis on things to do. If you pay people enough, they will make their own fun.

Amen

I don't know how much light I will be able shed on the topic. All I can give is my own personal experience.

I graduated from high school in 2005 and went to the east coast for college. I graduated last may and there is one reason I didn't move back. Money. Yes I know that there are some decent paying jobs in the city, low cost of living (kind of), etc. but the kind of jobs that would pay me the kind of money I wanted were all in industries that I had no interest in. There are opportunities for great careers but I am not going to be a doctor or a lawyer, and I have no interest in working in oil & gas. Therefore, I had to rule OKC out. Simple as that.

In conclusion, I would say a diversification of industries with available jobs doing something more exciting than punching the clock and that pay in excess of 70k per year. If OKC had jobs like that, it would be on the upswing.

People always place too much emphasis on things to do. If you pay people enough, they will make their own fun.

In what field did you start your career?

Just a couple of personal stories:

I have two friends that moved to OKC in the last six months.

One of them works at Fedex/Kinkos and his wife works at Devon. They previously lived in Orlando, FL.

The other one, she works from home and her husband works downtown for the DA's office. They previously lived in Chicago and St. Louis.

When I asked them why they moved back they said they did their research and when they looked up cost of living, low unemployment, housing market, etc, OKC always came up high on the list. For the record, their ages range from 26-30 years old.

Prettier woman, smarter men...

Prettier woman, smarter men...

? Oklahoma has a reputation of having gorgeous women. Not sure what our rep is about smart guys, but all I have ever heard from people is how good looking all the girls are here. I feel the same.

Prettier woman, smarter men...

ohh stop..

Well, that puts me in the bunch doesn't it?? I can make fun of Oklahomans because I am one. But, I do give ya that one. SOME, Oklahoma women are very great looking, but have you been to wal-mart lately?? And I stand by my smarter men comment.

Yeah, the women need to lose weight in Wal-Mart, though if the guys won't quit drinking beer and lose weight, why should the women?

it depends on what kind of 20-35 year old you are talking about. Im a student at OU and turn 20 in march, and there really isnt a reason for me to leave unless my future job requires it. We do not need to change to attract certain styles of people, like those you may find in austin or other similar cities of our size. We are a unique city with unique citizens, and need unique ideas. most of the things i read in this thread were ideas that already existed, but we need to not copy other cities and instead grow ourselves. And by doing so ideas will come up that do not exist yet, which would undoubtedly attract people who would help us grow

Oklahoma City and Edmond in particular is chock-full of hot women. It surprised the hell out of my colleague from Southern California when I showed him around OKC last July.

Well, that puts me in the bunch doesn't it?? I can make fun of Oklahomans because I am one. But, I do give ya that one. SOME, Oklahoma women are very great looking, but have you been to wal-mart lately?? And I stand by my smarter men comment.
I think that says more about Wal Mart than anything else, you can find that at any Wal Mart, anywhere in the country...or just peruse The People of Wal Mart (http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/), I think pretty much every state is well represented there.

As being the mother of a 28 yo who was raised here but currently lives in Dallas (after living in Los Angeles for a few years), I would have to agree that "diversification of industries with available jobs doing something more exciting than punching the clock..." would definitely be one of the reasons why he will probably never move back to OKC. The jobs we do have here are so limited and so many (okay MOST of them) are still ran by the good ole' boy network... You can still offer your employees a fun, interesting work environment and still get a great work product out of them. No need to be stuck in the "old-fashioned" ways of the past. Heck, I work for a firm that still has CRT monitors....I'm seriously thinking of buying my own monitor for work... really people...I totally understand why the young people want to leave... I did leave for a short period and would definitely not be opposed to moving again...

it depends on what kind of 20-35 year old you are talking about. Im a student at OU and turn 20 in march, and there really isnt a reason for me to leave unless my future job requires it. We do not need to change to attract certain styles of people, like those you may find in austin or other similar cities of our size. We are a unique city with unique citizens, and need unique ideas. most of the things i read in this thread were ideas that already existed, but we need to not copy other cities and instead grow ourselves. And by doing so ideas will come up that do not exist yet, which would undoubtedly attract people who would help us grow

Well said! I commend your pragmatic approach! You are exactly the kind of people that we are trying to retain here in this great state as well as its central and capital city! We need people of action who will take a unique approach and work to bring them to fruition. That is what place making is! It is not transplanting used ideas from one location to another. Granted the use and study of precedent is always welcome and smart but then you have to take it much further and discern how the space, place or entity evolved or was designed and for what reasons so that you can then look for opportunities in our own backyard that may present similar but wholly unique ones that are appropriate to their context. That goes for infill planning (physical place making) as well as innovations in business or systems planning. (economic developments)

As being the mother of a 28 yo who was raised here but currently lives in Dallas (after living in Los Angeles for a few years), I would have to agree that "diversification of industries with available jobs doing something more exciting than punching the clock..." would definitely be one of the reasons why he will probably never move back to OKC. The jobs we do have here are so limited and so many (okay MOST of them) are still ran by the good ole' boy network... You can still offer your employees a fun, interesting work environment and still get a great work product out of them. No need to be stuck in the "old-fashioned" ways of the past. Heck, I work for a firm that still has CRT monitors....I'm seriously thinking of buying my own monitor for work... really people...I totally understand why the young people want to leave... I did leave for a short period and would definitely not be opposed to moving again...

I know this is a stretch here but illustrates a point...so on the one hand this is a complaint about the incumbent "good ole boy " system which is broadly overused to paint a picture of backwards and corruption plagued institutionalism founded on protecting the members of the club utilizing unfair business practices to keep competition at bay and protect the turf as established...(whew!) But if you change your perspective for a minute and then think a bit larger scale...if they are inefficient and inept and backward and can't even provide decent equipment so the employees can do an efficient job in an environment that they feel confident and respected in (Large dose of supposition inserted there! LoL!) What you have left is by golly an opportunity for a competitor to come in and clean the ole' boys clocks and steal market share and draw away their most valued (or overlooked) possession you the employee who makes it possible! I know that you personally may not have the desire to take the risk and form a company of your own (or maybe you do, and if so...Go For it!) but that is a perfect example (albeit extremely simplified) of how opportunity is just around every corner, for those who will see past the status quo and think that location is the only way to resolve their problems. Heck the simple act of moving is so awful and difficult a proposition it might be easier to stomach the risk involved in setting up a new company and competing with the dying vestiges of a by gone era! Lol!!!!

I have been on active duty since I was 17 and just got released about a week ago, I have moved to to the native land in which I am from to finish school at OU. I have been in search of the very things that you are talking of right now. Can you make any suggestions for a 23 year old "newbie" returning from travels around the world?? I am about to go stir crazy for some type of culture that exsists outside the confounds of the churches that are on every corner.

Jesus Christ, this thread need to die

(Along with the all the NBA players think it's boring threads)

What are these jobs you speak of?

... Heck, I work for a firm that still has CRT monitors....I'm seriously thinking of buying my own monitor for work... really people...

Especially with the current economy, going out and replacing computers and/or monitors just isn't realistic for many businesses. We have a mix of CRT and flat screens. Essentially, as long as the CRT is functioning, why go to the expense to replace it?

I know this is a stretch here but illustrates a point...so on the one hand this is a complaint about the incumbent "good ole boy " system which is broadly overused to paint a picture of backwards and corruption plagued institutionalism founded on protecting the members of the club utilizing unfair business practices to keep competition at bay and protect the turf as established...(whew!) But if you change your perspective for a minute and then think a bit larger scale...if they are inefficient and inept and backward and can't even provide decent equipment so the employees can do an efficient job in an environment that they feel confident and respected in (Large dose of supposition inserted there! LoL!) What you have left is by golly an opportunity for a competitor to come in and clean the ole' boys clocks and steal market share and draw away their most valued (or overlooked) possession you the employee who makes it possible! I know that you personally may not have the desire to take the risk and form a company of your own (or maybe you do, and if so...Go For it!) but that is a perfect example (albeit extremely simplified) of how opportunity is just around every corner, for those who will see past the status quo and think that location is the only way to resolve their problems. Heck the simple act of moving is so awful and difficult a proposition it might be easier to stomach the risk involved in setting up a new company and competing with the dying vestiges of a by gone era! Lol!!!!

...besides, the place you move to might have their own 'good ole boy' network running in full gear. When you fight imaginary entities it seems they are everywhere you look.

... Can you make any suggestions for a 23 year old "newbie" returning from travels around the world?? ...

Some information regarding your interests regarding music, art, food, drink, sports, outdoor fun, etc. would be useful in pointing you the right direction.

We've got a passle of offerings available in and away from the metro. You mention OU. Snapping up a Gazette from O'Connell's or another rack in Norman each week will be a useful tool for your planning.

Re: the CRT monitor issue. In a large enterprise, the electricity savings alone can justify the cost of upgrading. I worked in a place where, if I recall correctly, they estimated the utility savings would pay for the monitors in 24 months. They took CRTs away from people who had not had them 90 days and replaced them with flat screens.

Attract 20-35 year olds? Your mom in a bikini.

What are these jobs you speak of?

I want to know this also!

I just moved here and I haven't been able to find anything besides helpdesk or call center temp positions.

Re: the CRT monitor issue. In a large enterprise, the electricity savings alone can justify the cost of upgrading. I worked in a place where, if I recall correctly, they estimated the utility savings would pay for the monitors in 24 months. They took CRTs away from people who had not had them 90 days and replaced them with flat screens.

Sorry, but 2 YEARS for the monitor to pay for itself? Doesn't justify it at all if the CRT is still functioning well. Money is tight now and items get replaced when they need to be replaced.

I want to know this also!

I just moved here and I haven't been able to find anything besides helpdesk or call center temp positions.


Then take anything you can get. Because employers with decent paying jobs are far more impressed with someone who is already established at a job rather than someone looking for a job.

Then take anything you can get. Because employers with decent paying jobs are far more impressed with someone who is already established at a job rather than someone looking for a job.

Riiight, thanks for the basic employment education.

I asked about the jobs referred to that Rashell also asked about.