The title of this thread is Public Safety, which includes Police/Fire/Animal Control/Municipal Courts, there are a few that feel OKC's Public Safety is adequately funded (myself included), and the only ones claiming their underfunded is the few on here that are members of the OKC Fire Department. In my opinion, it sound's/appears to be more about sour grapes and want--want--want and not entirely about need.

RCJunkie it would appear that you and Mr. Couch have differing opinions on staffing issues and whether or not they are adequately funded. According to his statement in the last paragraph of his May 5, 2009 letter to the Council it looks as though the members of the OKC Fire Department aren't the only ones making the claim of underfunded staffing issues when he states;

"The recently approved Ambulance Service Membership
program will take effect in October 2009 and will reduce
the General Fund payment to the Emergency Medical
Services Authority (EMSA) by $3.3 million. A portion
of this funding has been used to balance the FY 2010
budget and the remainder, approximately $2.1 million,
will be set aside in a reserve to serve as a buffer against
the uncertainty that still exists within the economy. As
the economy begins to improve in future fiscal years,
this reserve can be used to fund increased services, such
as those identified in recent studies on Fire and Police
staffing.

Again, stating that Police and Fire have had budget reductions every year since 1995 is at best, false.

For the past several years, most revenue increases have went toward the increase in wages (step and merit increases are wages) and the ever increasing cost of health insurance. This fiscal year alone, the increase in wages and health insurance, just for Public Safety Employees was over 5 million dollars.

Theres approximately 4500 city employees, insurance for every employee is at least $10,000 per employee, per year and increasing each year, it's easy to understand where revenue increases are going.

RCJunkie, I took your advice and looked at the budget. What I found makes me wonder why you complain so much about how expensive Firefighters are. Unless, you sly dog you, your complaining is just a tactic to divert attention away from your old department then I'm thinking Parks and Recreation with it's excessive employee cost may be the problem.

I compared the increases needed for FY/09-10 to fund the pay plan adjustments, step and merit raises, and the increased cost for employee health insurance. The Fire Department with it's 984 budgeted employees required a $1,955,400. increase, which averages out to $1,987.20 per employee. To cover those same increases the Parks and Recreation Department required $2,398.98 for each of it's 203 employees for a total of $486,993. There's your drain on the budget.

Andy157- why do you suppose parks employees are so much more costly? Do you think they are " looking at the budget, cutting where they can and spending wisely $400.00 per employee?"

Andy157- why do you suppose parks employees are so much more costly? Do you think they are " looking at the budget, cutting where they can and spending wisely $400.00 per employee?"I don't know, but thats a good question. Lets ask RCJunkie maybe he knows, he's pretty wired in you know.

Andy157- why do you suppose parks employees are so much more costly? Do you think they are " looking at the budget, cutting where they can and spending wisely $400.00 per employee?"
Looking deeper into the budget I also see where in the F.D. the average employee makes $77,377. per year and the average P & R employee earns $71,109. It's true that a Firefighter will earn $6,268. more than someone in P & R, of course they have to work an extra 832 hours per year to do so. Really when you think about it, if the Firefighters worked 832 hours less like they do in P & R you would have to take out $7,488. in O.T. pay which would bring the average pay for a Firefighter down to $69,889. Just think if the City would put the Firefighters on a 40 hour week like Parks a person mowing grass would make more than a Firefighter. Hows that fair?

RCJunkie it would appear that you and Mr. Couch have differing opinions on staffing issues and whether or not they are adequately funded. According to his statement in the last paragraph of his May 5, 2009 letter to the Council it looks as though the members of the OKC Fire Department aren't the only ones making the claim of underfunded staffing issues when he states;

"The recently approved Ambulance Service Membership
program will take effect in October 2009 and will reduce
the General Fund payment to the Emergency Medical
Services Authority (EMSA) by $3.3 million. A portion
of this funding has been used to balance the FY 2010
budget and the remainder, approximately $2.1 million,
will be set aside in a reserve to serve as a buffer against
the uncertainty that still exists within the economy. As
the economy begins to improve in future fiscal years,
this reserve can be used to fund increased services, such
as those identified in recent studies on Fire and Police
staffing.

That why I stated that it was MY OPINION, Mr. Couch is a grown man, more educated and knowledgeable than you or I, and as a Citizen of the US, he's free to make his OPINION.

Isn't it great to live in a free society where everyone has a voice and every voice counts.

Andy157, isn't it funny how Junkie falls back to freedom of speech, it's my opinion. Everybody has a right to their opinion when you exposed him to be uninformed.

Looking deeper into the budget I also see where in the F.D. the average employee makes $77,377. per year and the average P & R employee earns $71,109. It's true that a Firefighter will earn $6,268. more than someone in P & R, of course they have to work an extra 832 hours per year to do so. Really when you think about it, if the Firefighters worked 832 hours less like they do in P & R you would have to take out $7,488. in O.T. pay which would bring the average pay for a Firefighter down to $69,889. Just think if the City would put the Firefighters on a 40 hour week like Parks a person mowing grass would make more than a Firefighter. Hows that fair?

andy, you can stop by your local Walmart and pick up a cheap calculator for less than $5.00 (being that your so under paid, I'll buy you one if needed), the average park employee makes no where near $71,000. If you feel a new calculator isn't required, sharpen your your pencil or stop using that fuzzy math.

"check your budget, cut where you can, spend wisely"

Andy157, isn't it funny how Junkie falls back to freedom of speech, it's my opinion. Everybody has a right to their opinion when you exposed him to be uninformed.

:yourock:

Well junkie, since you're armed with your wally-world cacultor, how much do they make?

RCJunkie, I took your advice and looked at the budget. What I found makes me wonder why you complain so much about how expensive Firefighters are. Unless, you sly dog you, your complaining is just a tactic to divert attention away from your old department then I'm thinking Parks and Recreation with it's excessive employee cost may be the problem.

I compared the increases needed for FY/09-10 to fund the pay plan adjustments, step and merit raises, and the increased cost for employee health insurance. The Fire Department with it's 984 budgeted employees required a $1,955,400. increase, which averages out to $1,987.20 per employee. To cover those same increases the Parks and Recreation Department required $2,398.98 for each of it's 203 employees for a total of $486,993. There's your drain on the budget.

Is it a reading problem, comprehension problem. I have never complained about "how expensive FireFighters" are, all I have ever stated is that I feel the Fire Department is adequately funded.

Being that you mikey feel the need to make this a Firefighter vs. Park Employee discussion, the biggest difference is that you don't see or hear Park employees whining about need--need--need, we understand the budget/economy and make do with what we have. (especially during a campaign)

"look at the budget, cut where you can and spend wisely"

Well junkie, since you're armed with your walmart cacultor, how much do they make?

Average is 52,000.

andy, you can stop by your local Walmart and pick up a cheap calculator for less than $5.00 (being that your so under paid, I'll buy you one if needed), the average park employee makes no where near $71,000. If you feel a new calculator isn't required, sharpen your your pencil or stop using that fuzzy math.

"check your budget, cut where you can, spend wisely"

Not talking about you. Talking about the statement above.

Not talking about you. Talking about the statement above.

52,000 is the average salary per park dept. employee

$52,000.00 to cut the grass, Dayum! No wonder none of them are complaining!!!!!

$52,000.00 to cut the grass, Dayum! No wonder none of them are complaining!!!!!

I know, isn't life great, only in America.

They don't complain because we don't have the self driven ego or that want--want--want mentality.

Junkie you are a funny man, I assume you are male. How many times did you apply for the fire dept? Ever get to the interview? I'm sorry you didn't get hired.

andy, mike, wambo, it's been fun, I'm headed to Tenkiller for a few days, being that I made so much less then you firefighters, can I swing a loan, I need gas for my boat and fire wood for my cabin. Don't worry, I'm taking my laptop w/wireless INTERNET so I can keep you guys informed. If you have something I can't answer, I'll get a hold of Mick or Chief Marrs and get back with you.

"check the budget, cut where you can and spend wisely"

Remember, keep those big red trucks all bright and shiny, and don't forget to grease the pole!!

Junkie you are a funny man, I assume you are male. How many times did you apply for the fire dept? Ever get to the interview? I'm sorry you didn't get hired.

Never applied, didn't have the qualifying ego and my arm wasn't long enough to pat myself on the back!

In reality, the thought did cross my mind, but because of nepotism clause, I couldn't. Don't ask who, if I told you, I'd have to kill you.

Never applied, didn't have the qualifying ego and my arm wasn't long enough to pat myself on the back!

In reality, the thought did cross my mind, but because of nepotism clause, I couldn't. Don't ask who, if I told you, I'd have to kill you.

There is no nepotism clause. Plenty of related folks. Wrong again. About that ego thing....ROFLMAO

There is no nepotism clause. Plenty of related folks. Wrong again. About that ego thing....ROFLMAO

Shows how ignorant you are re: policy and chain of command, your forgiven.

If that's the case, why did a council member have to leave office so that her son could join the fire department !!!

There is no nepotism clause. Plenty of related folks. Wrong again. About that ego thing....ROFLMAO

You can be related, as long as it's not a direct supervisor, which was the situation in my case. Wrong Again
Does constantly being wrong damage the ego ? Just asking.

Shows how ignorant you are re: policy and chain of command, your forgiven.

If that's the case, why did a council member have to leave office so that her son could join the fire department !!!

She left office because, as a councilperson, she had the ability to directly affect the policy and budget of the dept. he worked for. Are you saying your relative is a councilperson and that's why you didn't apply? Short of that there's no reason it should have stopped you.

By the way, please stop offering forgiveness that hasn't been asked for. It makes you look like an arrogant a$$. Well in your case it's one of the things that makes you look like an arrogant a$$.

You can be related, as long as it's not a direct supervisor, which was the situation in my case. Wrong Again
Does constantly being wrong damage the ego ? Just asking.

So you were going to hire on and be a direct supervisor of one of your relatives. How does that work? How could you know that before applying?

Or, you were going to hire on and be directly supervised by one of your relatives. Again, how does that work? It doesn't work that way. That's what the policy you cited prevents. It doesn't keep you from applying, or even working for the same department. It does keep you from being directly supervised by each other. You said it prevented you from applying. Why would it do that. How could you know before applying that your relative would be your direct supervisor? Please elaborate on that.

So you were going to hire on and be a direct supervisor of one of your relatives. How does that work? How could you know that before applying?

Or, you were going to hire on and be directly supervised by one of your relatives. Again, how does that work? It doesn't work that way. That's what the policy you cited prevents. It doesn't keep you from applying, or even working for the same department. It does keep you from being directly supervised by each other. You said it prevented you from applying. Why would it do that. How could you know before applying that your relative would be your direct supervisor? Please elaborate on that.

If a relative is a Department Head. It's really not that hard to understand, it's in the policy and procedure handbook that Personnel issues, if you would like, I'll get a copy and send it to you.

She left office because, as a councilperson, she had the ability to directly affect the policy and budget of the dept. he worked for. Are you saying your relative is a councilperson and that's why you didn't apply? Short of that there's no reason it should have stopped you.

By the way, please stop offering forgiveness that hasn't been asked for. It makes you look like an arrogant a$$. Well in your case it's one of the things that makes you look like an arrogant a$$.

This is what's known as the pot calling the kettle black!, and I think you meant ASS

Now go to work, shine those trucks and grease those poles or if your off work, the weather is nice, take a stroll through one of OKC's newer Parks, S. Lakes at SW 119th and Meridian or Route 66, at NW 23rd and Overholser Dr., you'll find them to be free of litter and nicely mowed.

Remember the Budget: check, cut, spend wisely

$52,000.00 to cut the grass, Dayum! No wonder none of them are complaining!!!!!

It wasn't just cutting grass, it was much more involved and detailed then that, it was the highly sophisticated practice of making short grass out of tall grass.

Remember the Budget: check, cut, spend wisely

Junkie, it looks like you have "bitter career face", I'm just saying.

Junkie, it looks like you have "bitter career face", I'm just saying.

Not at all, I had a wonderful career, one that provided me and my family all the comforts we needed, and I'm thankfull that I was able to retire at a young age.

How about you, any plans on retiring soon ?

That why I stated that it was MY OPINION, Mr. Couch is a grown man, more educated and knowledgeable than you or I, and as a Citizen of the US, he's free to make his OPINION.

Isn't it great to live in a free society where everyone has a voice and every voice counts.Hell yes this is a great society we live in where the 3 of us can form our personal opinions. What makes it much better still is the fact that we can base our opinions how ever we want, on what ever we want. What makes it even better still is, if we can find even one person willing to hear our opinions, with just a few exceptions, we can voice those opinions darn near anywhere we please. God Bless America.

However, in my opinion, with his ability to comprehend at a much higher level than you possess, it makes Mr. Couch's opinion an educated one based upon facts. Whereas your less educated opinion is nothing more than what it is. Which in my opinion is an uneducated opinion. And remember, a sharp mower blade, is a happy mower blade.

Hell yes this is a great society we live in where the 3 of us can form our personal opinions. What makes it much better still is the fact that we can base our opinions how ever we want, on what ever we want. What makes it even better still is, if we can find even one person willing to hear our opinions, with just a few exceptions, we can voice those opinions darn near anywhere we please. God Bless America.

However, in my opinion, with his ability to comprehend at a much higher level than you possess, it makes Mr. Couch's opinion an educated one based upon facts. Whereas your less educated opinion is nothing more than what it is. Which in my opinion is an uneducated opinion. And remember, a sharp mower blade, is a happy mower blade.

I'm sure Mr. Couch would be happy to hear your ringing endorsement.

Budget: look/cut/spend wisely.

Remember, a clean and shiny truck is a happy truck and a greased pole wont hurt your hands.

I'm sure Mr. Couch would be happy to hear your ringing endorsement.

Budget: look/cut/spend wisely.

Remember, a clean and shiny truck is a happy truck and a greased pole wont hurt your hands.

No but a greased pole will lead to broken ankles, torn up knees or much worse. This is pretty much basic common sense but hey, with your vast knowledge of the inner workings of the ole FD, surely you knew that. I'm beginning to wonder since this is the second time you posted it in your sign off. You weren't in charge of safety at the parks dept. were you? :wink:

I'm sure Mr. Couch would be happy to hear your ringing endorsement.

Budget: look/cut/spend wisely.

Remember, a clean and shiny truck is a happy truck and a greased pole wont hurt your hands.Hey likewise. Remember you started this conversation by pointing out his higher level of education as well as his superior knowledge. You know when I first read that I thought to myself...this guy is retired, what is he sucking up to Couch for...but I thought, nah, surely not. Now your talking about "greased poles" hmmm I don't know. Lets just say I'll take your word on the greased pole thing, and leave it at that.

Hey likewise. Remember you started this conversation by pointing out his higher level of education as well as his superior knowledge. You know when I first read that I thought to myself...this guy is retired, what is he sucking up to Couch for...but I thought, nah, surely not. Now your talking about "greased poles" hmmm I don't know. Lets just say I'll take your word on the greased pole thing, and leave it at that.

I'm not sure about the greased poles myself, must be a fireman thing!!


Budget: look/cut/spend wisely

No but a greased pole will lead to broken ankles, torn up knees or much worse. This is pretty much basic common sense but hey, with your vast knowledge of the inner workings of the ole FD, surely you knew that. I'm beginning to wonder since this is the second time you posted it in your sign off. You weren't in charge of safety at the parks dept. were you? :wink:

Sounds like your talking from experience. Did you file a workers comp claim, how long were you off work, any long term disability, did you return ASAP, or did you milk the system.

Have a Good Day, I'm headed out on the Lake, trying to catch lunch/dinner.

Budget: look/cut/spend wisely

Get a room you three!

[QUOTE=rcjunkie;293279]andy, you can stop by your local Walmart and pick up a cheap calculator for less than $5.00 (being that your so under paid, I'll buy you one if needed), the average park employee makes no where near $71,000. If you feel a new calculator isn't required, sharpen your your pencil or stop using that fuzzy math.

"check your budget, cut where you can, spend wisely"[/QU

I have plenty of calculators so I don't feel as though I require an additional one at this time. However, in lieu of you spending a portion of your vast wealth(you must have Zillions considering you have a mansion on Lake Tenkiller) on a calculator I'll just take the 5 bucks. That would really help me out by reducing my begging time by an hour or two.

The City's allotment from it's General Fund for the Personal Services expenditures (if you don't know what that means look on page 54 of the FY/09-10 budget for a definition) for the 203 Parks and Recreation Department employees is $14,435,075. Using these factors see if you can determine what the average cost per employee would be.

Now, if you are having a hard time understanding third grade math and it seems a little fuzzy then you might want to spend that $5.00 on a math tutor for some remedial math training, if so I'll understand. If not then let me know and I'll try to walk you through the process.

Get a room you three!This homey don't play that game, and it's safe to say Wambo don't either, beyond that I can't say.

[QUOTE=rcjunkie;293279]andy, you can stop by your local Walmart and pick up a cheap calculator for less than $5.00 (being that your so under paid, I'll buy you one if needed), the average park employee makes no where near $71,000. If you feel a new calculator isn't required, sharpen your your pencil or stop using that fuzzy math.

"check your budget, cut where you can, spend wisely"[/QU

I have plenty of calculators so I don't feel as though I require an additional one at this time. However, in lieu of you spending a portion of your vast wealth(you must have Zillions considering you have a mansion on Lake Tenkiller) on a calculator I'll just take the 5 bucks. That would really help me out by reducing my begging time by an hour or two.

The City's allotment from it's General Fund for the Personal Services expenditures (if you don't know what that means look on page 54 of the FY/09-10 budget for a definition) for the 203 Parks and Recreation Department employees is $14,435,075. Using these factors see if you can determine what the average cost per employee would be.

Now, if you are having a hard time understanding third grade math and it seems a little fuzzy then you might want to spend that $5.00 on a math tutor for some remedial math training, if so I'll understand. If not then let me know and I'll try to walk you through the process.

Checks in the mail---you do have a checking account don't you or should I send cash.

Do you seriously think that salary is the only thing that comes from Personal Services Expenditures---are you sure you passed the written tests for the Fire Department or did someone sneak you in the back door. Someday I'll explain how to read and understand the budget manual.
As for getting a room with andy and wambo, it wouldn't work, I'm 6'4 and weigh 260, their ego's are are least twice that size, I don't know of any rooms that big.

Well got to go, I let my cook and butler have the day off, have to fix my own dinner.

Take care, be safe and God Bless!!

"Keep the trucks shiny and don't slide down any dry poles"

BUDGET: look,cut,spend wisely

[QUOTE=andy157;293701]

Checks in the mail---you do have a checking account don't you or should I send cash.

Do you seriously think that salary is the only thing that comes from Personal Services Expenditures---are you sure you passed the written tests for the Fire Department or did someone sneak you in the back door. Someday I'll explain how to read and understand the budget manual.
As for getting a room with andy and wambo, it wouldn't work, I'm 6'4 and weigh 260, their ego's are are least twice that size, I don't know of any rooms that big.

Well got to go, I let my cook and butler have the day off, have to fix my own dinner.

Take care, be safe and God Bless!!

"Keep the trucks shiny and don't slide down any dry poles"

BUDGET: look,cut,spend wiselyConsidering I directed you to the page where the definintion of Personal Services could be found, I think I have a pretty clear understanding as to it's obligations, so I don't believe I will require you to provide any further explaination. Let me type this real slow..using these factors see if you can determine what the average COST per employee would be.

Andy, Mike, Wambo, you guys are wasting your time verbally sparring with RC. He is set in his beliefs and its obvious he is not willing to hear much less understand anyone elses opinion or facts.

He is entitled to have his opinions just as we are. So why dont we let this guy enjoy his retirement from the city.

Lets move on and try to educate someone that would like to know the facts about the fire service, not someone who is looking to drag us down.

Lets agree to disagree and move on.

Andy, Mike, Wambo, you guys are wasting your time verbally sparring with RC. He is set in his beliefs and its obvious he is not willing to hear much less understand anyone elses opinion or facts.

He is entitled to have his opinions just as we are. So why dont we let this guy enjoy his retirement from the city.

Lets move on and try to educate someone that would like to know the facts about the fire service, not someone who is looking to drag us down.

Lets agree to disagree and move on.

Come on now okcsmokeandfire, don't spoil the fun, I love a challenge, well maybe your right, it's not much of a challenge. I guess you three can hide under a rock until the next election.

BUDGET: look,cut,spend wisely

[QUOTE=rcjunkie;293742]Considering I directed you to the page where the definintion of Personal Services could be found, I think I have a pretty clear understanding as to it's obligations, so I don't believe I will require you to provide any further explaination. Let me type this real slow..using these factors see if you can determine what the average COST per employee would be.


Your the man andy, you showed me didn't you. You have got to be a fairly new hire, and it's obvious your not involved with budget preparation because you have no idea what's covered under Personal Services. We have been discussing AVERAGE ANNUAL SALARY NOT AVERAGE ANNUAL COST. Personal Services Budget covers more than just salary, so dividing this budget amount by the number of employees tells you absolutely nothing.
I give up, one of the reason's I retired was because I got tired of dealing with mental midgets, I refuse to do it now.

BUDGET: look, cut, spend wisley

rcjunkiefirst of all I would like to know what part of Tenkiller do you go to. I have been going for 53 years(Strayhorn Landing for me). If we ever meet at the lake I'll by the first cold one. I will tell you we have different views on this subject. I have been reading this post daily. I was unable to locate the page about the city having an 85 million dollar rainy fund. You seem to know how the budget process works. Are you aware the the city is only required by law I believe to place 2% of its budget in the rainy day fund. The city council a few years back voted to increase that to 10%. They did that for the tough times we are in. I ask you why do think they are not going to pull from the rainy day fund to help all departments within the city.

Chef, the quote was from Jim Couch about the $823,000,000.00 budget being approved. He stated the we had approx. 11% of that in fund balances. Fire union president Phil Sipe stated that at a $14,000,000.00 monthly shortfall that money would be gone rather quickly. The idea would not fix any problems, just put off the inevidable.

[QUOTE=andy157;293770]


Your the man andy, you showed me didn't you. You have got to be a fairly new hire, and it's obvious your not involved with budget preparation because you have no idea what's covered under Personal Services. We have been discussing AVERAGE ANNUAL SALARY NOT AVERAGE ANNUAL COST. Personal Services Budget covers more than just salary, so dividing this budget amount by the number of employees tells you absolutely nothing.
I give up, one of the reason's I retired was because I got tired of dealing with mental midgets, I refuse to do it now.

BUDGET: look, cut, spend wisleyThanks, I'll take that as a compliment. I'm not sure we, as in you and I have been discussing average annual salary, since I've not used that term.

For me it has always been about Personal Services. I should have been more clear, and I'm sorry you didn't understand. Your right, I had no idea that when I used the term earned and/or make that you took that to mean only the salary portion.

I wrongfully took for granted that you knew I was referring to wages and benifits which are categorized as Personal Service expenditures according to the M.B.A. My bad.

rcjunkiefirst of all I would like to know what part of Tenkiller do you go to. I have been going for 53 years(Strayhorn Landing for me). If we ever meet at the lake I'll by the first cold one. I will tell you we have different views on this subject. I have been reading this post daily. I was unable to locate the page about the city having an 85 million dollar rainy fund. You seem to know how the budget process works. Are you aware the the city is only required by law I believe to place 2% of its budget in the rainy day fund. The city council a few years back voted to increase that to 10%. They did that for the tough times we are in. I ask you why do think they are not going to pull from the rainy day fund to help all departments within the city.

Chef, I believe if you will look back at post #54 Steve's explaination as to the City's justification for not using more of the fund balance will answer your question.

rcjunkiefirst of all I would like to know what part of Tenkiller do you go to. I have been going for 53 years(Strayhorn Landing for me). If we ever meet at the lake I'll by the first cold one. I will tell you we have different views on this subject. I have been reading this post daily. I was unable to locate the page about the city having an 85 million dollar rainy fund. You seem to know how the budget process works. Are you aware the the city is only required by law I believe to place 2% of its budget in the rainy day fund. The city council a few years back voted to increase that to 10%. They did that for the tough times we are in. I ask you why do think they are not going to pull from the rainy day fund to help all departments within the city.

A cold one sounds good!!

I have a cabin and 10 acres abut 1/2 mile from Barnacle Bills. Do you have property at Strayhorn or use camp grounds.

I think the decision to increase the funding of the rainy day fund to 10% was a very wise move, and the present Council/Mayor, has made some changes that have served to lesson the impact of the recent economy situation. All this talk about all of the Maps programs not bringing in the additional revenue people claimed it would are way off base, could you imagine where the City would be without the tax/revenue benefits from the previous Maps programs. To gain a clear picture, one just has to look at Tulsa to understand what could have happened to OKC and it's employees.

Have a Great Day

Junkie, you need to watch Fox25 because OKC's budget director was on last night saying that the 12% budget cut he is calling for will call for the loss of an equal amount of employees that Tulsa is about to lose. He also stated he had been telling the city council this for over a year. Both Police and Fire reps were asked if this was true. Both stated it was and the city knew it but never discussed it because they wanted to get Maps3 passed. Check out Fox25.


Go to Youtube

Maps 3 after the vote services are being slashed

Junkie, you need to watch Fox25 because OKC's budget director was on last night saying that the 12% budget cut he is calling for will call for the loss of an equal amount of employees that Tulsa is about to lose. He also stated he had been telling the city council this for over a year. Both Police and Fire reps were asked if this was true. Both stated it was and the city knew it but never discussed it because they wanted to get Maps3 passed. Check out Fox25.


Go to Youtube

Maps 3 after the vote services are being slashed


Thanks Mike, I'll look for it. Please note that if this indeed happens, I'll be one of the first at Council meeting to voice my opposition.
I'm moving just outside of Oklahoma County into Cleveland County so my voting days in OKC are numbered, but there is other methods to voice any objections or approvals.

On a side note, any update on the firefighter that was seriously injured just before Christmas, I think the report stated that he fell while hanging lights at his church!!

Have a Great Day and a Better Weekend

Why is Fox25 News the only ones covering this. Where are the other news outlets in this city?

As far as the FF who fell while working at his church, last I heard he was looking at multiple surgeries and a very long recovery. He broke alot of bones.

Thanks Mike, I'll look for it. Please note that if this indeed happens, I'll be one of the first at Council meeting to voice my opposition.
I'm moving just outside of Oklahoma County into Cleveland County so my voting days in OKC are numbered, but there is other methods to voice any objections or approvals.

On a side note, any update on the firefighter that was seriously injured just before Christmas, I think the report stated that he fell while hanging lights at his church!!

Have a Great Day and a Better Weekend

I'm not sure what to say to this? Junkie must have fallen off the boat at tenkiller and struck his head on a piece of driftwood. This appears to be a kindly sort of remark made reasonably and in good faith. Weird.

I can really appreciate this from you Junkie.

As to the aforementioned FF, he is rehabbing well and expected to return with the addition of some bionics.

I'm going to weigh in on this thread again, because I've got itchy typing fingers.

It was mentioned during the MIII threads that we were only bringing issues such as these to the front because we were not getting anything from the passage of MAPS.

We were cornered by the obvious disregard that has plagued our negotiations with the city for many years, as stated previously 1995, a year that consequently gave Marrs his political legs. In what other issue is the discrepancy between wants and needs more glaringly apparent? In what other issue could one find the two faces of city government in a lineup side by side.

The smiling, handshaking, ever your buddy, best dressed in 2007 party pleaser, and the hand ringing, nervous, fiscal augur who chimes in with foreboding prognostics of dire financial straits to come, both were on display within weeks of the vote.

I'm not looking to rehash the MIII thing, no need. I would like to examine the duality upon which certain issues are spun and their timing because there are those who like to reiterate that we only got into the fight because we weren't getting our dues. I think that is an unfair accusation. We got into the fight because our services, as they are provided to the citizens who pay for them, are ever being hacked away at behind closed doors in negotiations, while simultaneously appearing to be a priority in public.

In fact a keystone promise made during said campaign was frankly rejected by members of the council, mind you after the vote was passed. Had they denied Mick's wants prior to the vote, perhaps the sway would have gone the other direction, perhaps not....

What other venue would have brought this duality to light better than MIII? Rig issues have recently been brought up because prior to the capricious turn to pander to a hockey team, we weren't really having rig issues. Granted, we were still in the old ones that were on their respective last legs, but we were on a schedule for replacement, now, we have a ladder company operating out of a minivan, not a piece of fire apparatus, a van that soccer moms use for commuting. That rig is only good for manpower meaning that without gear there is no rescue until somebody comes to the rescue of the Fire and Rescue Department.

We are well paid as employees, enough so that our families are taken care of. We are not getting rich as firefighters. We are doing well enough to know that our job is the best job out there. As a department, we are a money suck. How could it be any other way? On a person's worst day we are called to respond in force to mitigate emergencies satisfactorily with citizens our primary concern and their property second and we do this with the moniss that were supposed to be dedicated to us by the vote of the people because service such as ours should be expensive, for being free.

Thanks Mike, I'll look for it. Please note that if this indeed happens, I'll be one of the first at Council meeting to voice my opposition.
I'm moving just outside of Oklahoma County into Cleveland County so my voting days in OKC are numbered, but there is other methods to voice any objections or approvals.

On a side note, any update on the firefighter that was seriously injured just before Christmas, I think the report stated that he fell while hanging lights at his church!!

Have a Great Day and a Better Weekend
Definately check it out RC because I was gung ho for maps 3 as well, I'm not a fan of the police or fire union and agreed they were blowing things out of proportion. But my brother sent me the link today, it definately seems the mayor and council ignored the warnings. They KNEW a budget mess was coming, you don't miss 10 and 12% revenue shortfalls. They were covering it up, plain and simple :( Which saddens me to say because I was all for Maps3 defended it to family time and again, and now I look like the fool.

Why is Fox25 the only ones covering this. Where are the other news outlets in this city?

Gaylords.

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I'm not sure what to say to this? Junkie must have fallen off the boat at tenkiller and struck his head on a piece of driftwood. This appears to be a kindly sort of remark made reasonably and in good faith. Weird.

I can really appreciate this from you Junkie.

No kidding. I almost fell out of my chair. Pleasantly suprised.

If that day before the council comes Junkie, let us know, we'll form a line.

Definately check it out RC because I was gung ho for maps 3 as well, I'm not a fan of the police or fire union and agreed they were blowing things out of proportion. But my brother sent me the link today, it definately seems the mayor and council ignored the warnings. They KNEW a budget mess was coming, you don't miss 10 and 12% revenue shortfalls. They were covering it up, plain and simple :( Which saddens me to say because I was all for Maps3 defended it to family time and again, and now I look like the fool.


Gaylords.


Interesting, didn't know the Gaylords controlled KFOR, KOCO, KWTW, KSBI, KOKC, KTOK, Journal Record and Oklahoma Gazette. Learn something new every day.

Interesting, didn't know the Gaylords controlled KFOR, KOCO, KWTW, KSBI, KOKC, KTOK, Journal Record and Oklahoma Gazette. Learn something new every day.

I was being sarcastic on that answer, all media blame seems to go to the Gaylords in OKC so thats why I posted it.

I'm not sure what to say to this? Junkie must have fallen off the boat at tenkiller and struck his head on a piece of driftwood. This appears to be a kindly sort of remark made reasonably and in good faith. Weird.

I can really appreciate this from you Junkie.

As to the aforementioned FF, he is rehabbing well and expected to return with the addition of some bionics.

I'm going to weigh in on this thread again, because I've got itchy typing fingers.

It was mentioned during the MIII threads that we were only bringing issues such as these to the front because we were not getting anything from the passage of MAPS.

We were cornered by the obvious disregard that has plagued our negotiations with the city for many years, as stated previously 1995, a year that consequently gave Marrs his political legs. In what other issue is the discrepancy between wants and needs more glaringly apparent? In what other issue could one find the two faces of city government in a lineup side by side.

The smiling, handshaking, ever your buddy, best dressed in 2007 party pleaser, and the hand ringing, nervous, fiscal augur who chimes in with foreboding prognostics of dire financial straits to come, both were on display within weeks of the vote.

I'm not looking to rehash the MIII thing, no need. I would like to examine the duality upon which certain issues are spun and their timing because there are those who like to reiterate that we only got into the fight because we weren't getting our dues. I think that is an unfair accusation. We got into the fight because our services, as they are provided to the citizens who pay for them, are ever being hacked away at behind closed doors in negotiations, while simultaneously appearing to be a priority in public.

In fact a keystone promise made during said campaign was frankly rejected by members of the council, mind you after the vote was passed. Had they denied Mick's wants prior to the vote, perhaps the sway would have gone the other direction, perhaps not....

What other venue would have brought this duality to light better than MIII? Rig issues have recently been brought up because prior to the capricious turn to pander to a hockey team, we weren't really having rig issues. Granted, we were still in the old ones that were on their respective last legs, but we were on a schedule for replacement, now, we have a ladder company operating out of a minivan, not a piece of fire apparatus, a van that soccer moms use for commuting. That rig is only good for manpower meaning that without gear there is no rescue until somebody comes to the rescue of the Fire and Rescue Department.

We are well paid as employees, enough so that our families are taken care of. We are not getting rich as firefighters. We are doing well enough to know that our job is the best job out there. As a department, we are a money suck. How could it be any other way? On a person's worst day we are called to respond in force to mitigate emergencies satisfactorily with citizens our primary concern and their property second and we do this with the moniss that were supposed to be dedicated to us by the vote of the people because service such as ours should be expensive, for being free.

Thanks and my thoughts and prayers go out to the injured firefighter and his family. While we agree to disagree on some issues, a promise is a promise, now it's up to the Mayor and Council to "pony up."
As I stated earlier, if they fail to do as promised, I'll be one of the first to join in and help, being that I'm moving out of Oklahoma County, I can't offer support at the poles, but I can in different ways.

Thanks and my thoughts and prayers go out to the injured firefighter and his family. While we agree to disagree on some issues, a promise is a promise, now it's up to the Mayor and Council to "pony up."
As I stated earlier, if they fail to do as promised, I'll be one of the first to join in and help, being that I'm moving out of Oklahoma County, I can't offer support at the poles, but I can in different ways.

The council has already told the mayor that he made those promises and they were under no obligation to follow through on them. Councilman White made this clear, in no uncertain terms, in a recent meeting. Councilman Walters was the only one who sided with the mayor on the need to make good on the promises made. Politics certainly does make strange bedfellows.

RC Junkie I have a place at Stayhorn Landing. 40' off of the lake. can cast a lure from my deck. Some how we will figure on how to meet.
Has anyone thought about this. Maybe Andy 157 or MikeMarsh51. If the Journal record states that 200 additonal FF will be added can they layoff these FF. It appears to me that the city is asking for general fund relief. It also appears the the city has 3 funding sorces. General Fund, 3/4 cent sales tax and hopefully the use tax. So in theory last ones hired first ones fired may not hold true. Only FF in the general fund can be laid off.