I see

^

That's all code for the Chamber and powers that be wanting to make a big push in the Innovation District and provide more corporate incentives.

Amazing.

We started doing MAPS bc our piles of incentive dollars weren't cutting it. At least when we did that, it was for AA, which would have heavily diversified our economy.

These people are cognitively and philosophically bankrupt if they want to incorporate any amount of incentives in MAPS 4. Yet there isn't any money for place-based improvements like the 235 cap, they just want a war chest for cash incentives.

I will oppose the entire ballot if they go that route.

I think that there is a fair amount of naivety by some of the establishment with regard to how much the electorate may have changed and what may or may not motivate it to support initiatives.

Well if this is true, and I don't want to assume, but if it is, then they want to masquerade the fundamental opposite of MAPS as the next MAPS.

In 1993, we arrived at MAPS by realizing the folly of trying to incentivize companies to come with cash.

I also think we are done with the days of this being a non-binding resolution. This has evaded accountability, and if they keep it up to further their own narrow interests, they are going to face a bloody renewal battle. It's unfortunate bc the Trump years will likely see a fire hose of federal matching funds and innovative tax credit schemes that could further what we did in MAPS 4 if we stay true to building things for quality of life and economic development, instead of just writing fat checks.

Also note how many of these "incentives" have gone to oil companies, which has clearly worked out great toward economic diversification.

I just increasingly don't see a future for MAPS until Jim Couch retires and goes back to North Dakota.

In 1993, we arrived at MAPS by realizing the folly of trying to incentivize companies to come with cash.

That is a great point as it relates to MAPS and it's history. Very astute.

That's why they could propose so many other bad ideas that would still be less stinging.

I'm not at all against incentives, really of any kind. Just not as a part of MAPS.

Oklahoma City will need to revise & resize its MAPS project proposals if we want to continue the momentum. We need future initiatives that will reduce the number of projects from 7-9 to 3 or 4 with no more than a 3 1/2 to 4 year collection period.

Sales Tax collections will rebound; therefore you may see a future 'surplus' with the shorter collection periods.

Yeah, I don't think anyone wants to get into why people voted for a Trump, especially on OKC Talk.

Not sure where the Draper Trail thread is(I looked and couldn’t find it) but that trail is officially open.

$40 million in excess MAPS 3 funds to be allocated (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=693-40-million-in-excess-MAPS-3-funds-to-be-allocated)

Today, the MAPS3 Board voted to return $15 million from the convention center which will not be needed for that project.

https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/union082117.jpg

Historic Union Station bordering Scissortail Park


Combined with approximately $20 million in excess sales tax collections, interest and contingency funds, plus an estimated $5 million that is likely to be returned at the completion of the convention center, the total is likely to approach $40 million.

MAPS 3 Project Manager explained that two key elements of the convention center -- the 4th Street Experience (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=688-4-million-pedestrian-way-proposed-for-convention-center) and the reconstruction of Robinson Avenue (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=26179&page=183&p=1070078#post1070078) between the center and Scissortail Park -- would be able to be completed and still return the nearly $20 million to the general MAPS budget.

Board Chair Tom McDaniel reported that he had previously met with Mayor David Holt and City Manager Craig Freeman and determined that city council would be the appropriate body to make decisions regarding the funds.

The Board voted to send requests from the various MAPS3 subcommittees to the mayor and council to consider.

Those requests include:

$9 million for the state fairgrounds MAPS4 coliseum project
$30 million for the park subcommittee towards connecting the lower park directly to the Oklahoma River as well as an estimated $25 million needed to renovate Union Station (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=617-Plans-to-renovate-historic-Union-Station-move-forward)
$4 million to be spread between senior centers numbers 1, 3 and 4.
$7.9 million to the whitewater facility for a new filtration system, zip line and improvements to meeting rooms
$20 million for a trail for connecting South Oklahoma City to the river trails via the May Avenue or Portland Avenue corridors.


The total requests of approximately far exceed the estimated overage and city council will likely have additional items that will compete for funding.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/whitewater022320a.jpg
Proposed 4-person zip line over the whitewater facility


https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/unionstation052219a.jpg
Proposed renovation of Union Station

Good news that we have some extra butter to put on our pancakes. However, is it a little concerning that the white water facility already needs a new $8mm filtration system?

Filtration, zip line, meeting rooms, other small improvements.

The filtration is to stop the water from being so brown.

Filtration, zip line, meeting rooms, other small improvements.

The filtration is to stop the water from being so brown.

I would be okay with just the filtration system... Zip Line doesn't look to be anything special

Personally, I'd like to see it all go toward Union Station then everyone else can compete for what remains.

Personally, I'd like to see it all go toward Union Station then everyone else can compete for what remains.

i would love the full union station renovation and then half of the budget .. for the lower park river connection

I'd like to see it go to Union Station and connecting the park to the River.

Wait, what about a couple miles of streetcar track!

It's interesting that the fairgrounds is already asking for $9M more for the coliseum before MAPS4 has even started.

Seems like at every turn, we are pouring more money into the fairgrounds and the boathouse area.

As a reminder, the lower park will basically stop at SW 15th.

The city owns the land to the south of 15th (commonly known as Riverfront Park) but there is currently no budget to include that section and tie it into the larger park.

As of now, Riverfront Park is not much of anything apart from the existing trail that runs through it.

https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark052219a.jpg


https://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark121618a.jpg

We need someone to pony up and have the park over pass 15th, similar to the Gathering Place!

Yeah the fairgrounds ask when we're not even executing on MAPS 4 yet is friggin annoying. What they're going to do I bet is get started with that 9M and then when the prioritization for MAPS4 spending comes up they'll say, well, now we have to be first because we already started. I'm so chapped. No lack of appreciation for the money they bring in, but damn.

But I love money going to Union and more bike trail (and south side love!). In particular, loving that the CC is turning out to be cheaper than expected. We were all worried it was going to be a $400M debacle and I'm cool with being wrong on that for what we're getting.

The southside trail would be similar to the Will Rogers Trail on the north side, from what was discussed at the meeting.

The southside trail would be similar to the Will Rogers Trail on the north side, from what was discussed at the meeting.

long overdue and a disappointment initially with MAPS3, not getting more south side trail expansion (I mean, yeah Draper, but...), glad for it to be rectified.

for me, trails should get it first. then Union station. but i'd be okay with the other way around, and have 30 go to union station and then the rest go to trails

Personally, I think fairgrounds and boathouse district still have strong visitation potential to maximize.

I think they should spend all the money on traffic control in and around the fairgrounds, which IMO is currently selfish, And Totally Impossible To Make Any Sense Of.

long overdue and a disappointment initially with MAPS3, not getting more south side trail expansion (I mean, yeah Draper, but...), glad for it to be rectified.

What chaps me about Draper is they built a concrete trail around the lake for walkers, runners, and cyclists and there is no charge to use it. However on the land that the OEF leases from the Water Board on the east side of Post, the Water Board charges MTB's to pay a $25.00 annual fee to use the trails they had no part in constructing.

whoa, had no idea. that is very chap-worthy...

It's interesting that the fairgrounds is already asking for $9M more for the coliseum before MAPS4 has even started.

Seems like at every turn, we are pouring more money into the fairgrounds and the boathouse area.

Remind me again if you would, I saw a breakdown on KFOR that allocated $63 million to the "fair ground coliseum." Is that correct? I have also seen Maps4 breakdowns that state the money isn't allocated into portions yet, and is more on a first come, first serve allocation system. Could you please clarify?

What chaps me about Draper is they built a concrete trail around the lake for walkers, runners, and cyclists and there is no charge to use it. However on the land that the OEF leases from the Water Board on the east side of Post, the Water Board charges MTB's to pay a $25.00 annual fee to use the trails they had no part in constructing.

Good point Jersey Boss.

Decisions like these we need to address in any MAPS and future initiatives; especially the White Water Rapid facility that was among the first MAPS 3 projects to be completed, many of us applauded this project's construction, now we're hearing about the many funding vices in operating this facility that now needs a new filtering system; they need to figure out some immediate cost cutting measures because this facility will be a future drain on any funds used to support it. Figure something out in this off season...

Remind me again if you would, I saw a breakdown on KFOR that allocated $63 million to the "fair ground coliseum." Is that correct? I have also seen Maps4 breakdowns that state the money isn't allocated into portions yet, and is more on a first come, first serve allocation system. Could you please clarify?

$63M is the amount that has been proposed, not counting this additional request.

The money isn't officially allocated to get around election rules, but there has been a commitment from the mayor that these budgets will be honored:

https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=647-Full-list-of-all-proposed-MAPS4-projects

Also interesting to note that due to an existing fairgrounds project for MAPS 3, they had the opportunity to put in a request for additional MAPS 3 funds for the coliseum which is a MAPS 4 project.

In other words, almost all the MAPS 4 project groups are not represented in MAPS 3, so they did not get the same opportunity.

For example, the soccer stadium, the animal shelter... If we're going to open this up to MAPS 4 projects, then they all should get a chance to submit requests.

So 72M for the fairgrounds arena. Uncomfortably close to the cost of the MAPS1 downtown arena. I realize not entirely apples to apples because of inflation but still, I bet it won't be nearly as solid as the original Ford Center.

Filtration, zip line, meeting rooms, other small improvements.

The filtration is to stop the water from being so brown.

Is the source water the oklahoma river or the city water system?

I'd like to see it go to Union Station and connecting the park to the River.

Ditto.

And a hard no on letting the fairgrounds grab yet more tax money to spend with zero oversight.

The economic impact of the horse industry & related trade shows staged at State Fair Park justifies putting money into State Fair Park complex which generates $230 million a year in direct spending and more than $400 million a year in total economic impact: https://statefairparkokc.com/new-coliseum/in-the-news/study-shows-benefits

The horse & trade shows need to be addressed ASAP before we lose many of these events to Fort Worth who is well equipped to lure these annual events to Cowtown--much like the NFR's Las Vegas adventure; we won't get them back.

Bennett Event Center & State Fair Coliseum dual will be equivalent to a convention center complex at State Fair Park.

Know that many of you on this forum have a bad taste in your mouth (justified IMO) about the State Fair Board Trust (SFBT)--City possesses these records. The SFBT issue should have been put to rest at its beginning because there seems to be an after affect about its trust & stewardship that has left a bad taste about anything related to the State Fair Park's 440 acre parcel.

You bet Fort Worth is waiting for Oklahoma City to drop the ball.

The International Finals Rodeo (IFR) now staged at the Lazy E in Guthrie (accommodates 7,233 mostly non chair back seats) needs to be brought back to OKC where we can maximize the IFR's potential in a new 5,000 seat arena at SFP with chair back seats. The Meridian hotel corridor will benefit from the construction of the new State Fair Coliseum.

Lazy E Arena: https://www.lazye.com/facilities

SMG manages Chesapeake Energy Arena & Cox Convention Center: https://facilitiesonline.com/uncategorized/smg-approved-to-continue-to-operate-two-major-facilities-in-oklahoma-city-and-announces-chris-semrau-as-new-general-manager-of-both-facilities

How about we get some of our money back due to excessive taxation. Surprised this has not yet been discussed.

How about using some to get theft resistant street and highway lights?

How about using some to get theft resistant street and highway lights?

How about an unbiased Lotto making 40 new instant millionaires in OKC?

I would like the connection to the river or the central station proposal. Is there any chance a wealthy person would take on either of these projects?

Is the source water the oklahoma river or the city water system?

City water. It just gets so dirty from wind blowing dirt in. I’m sure the constant churning doesn’t help the look either.

...

I'm fully prepared for Holt and the gang to screw this deal up. The zip-line is just an awful idea, as is giving more money to the senior shelters.

100% of this should be (a) returned to the OKC taxpayers in one form or another; (b) invested in local tech startups; or (c) used to lure Fortune 1000 companies

I'm fully prepared for Holt and the gang to screw this deal up. The zip-line is just an awful idea, as is giving more money to the senior shelters.

100% of this should be (a) returned to the OKC taxpayers in one form or another; (b) invested in local tech startups; or (c) used to lure Fortune 1000 companies

no

Well, if maps is going to build the west river bike path, then why can’t they use some of this money to fix the now closed off trail at I-40?

I'm fully prepared for Holt and the gang to screw this deal up. The zip-line is just an awful idea, as is giving more money to the senior shelters.

100% of this should be (a) returned to the OKC taxpayers in one form or another; (b) invested in local tech startups; or (c) used to lure Fortune 1000 companies

I have no vote but this is a big no.

Press release:

********************

Oklahoma City Council uses extra MAPS 3 capital funds to boost park, senior center and coliseum projects
04/14/2020

Scissortail Park, MAPS 3 Senior Health and Wellness Centers and the MAPS 4 Fairgrounds Coliseum will have boosted budgets thanks in large part to MAPS 3 capital sales tax collections that exceeded expectations.

The Oklahoma City Council voted Tuesday to allocate about $33 million in additional MAPS 3 sales tax collections to the projects:

$19 million to buy and renovate Union Station to incorporate it into Scissortail Park, along with improvements to the park’s lower section and a connection to the Oklahoma River.
$9 million for the MAPS 4 Fairgrounds Coliseum.
$4.975 million to three of the MAPS 3 senior centers:
$2.2 million for Center No. 4 (to be located on Western Avenue south of SW 134th Street).
$1.8 million for Center. No. 3 (to be located at NE 36th Street and Lincoln Boulevard).
$975,000 for Center No. 1 (11501 N Rockwell Ave., healthylivingokc.com).



A strong economy throughout most of the MAPS 3 temporary sales tax collection period boosted collections beyond projections. MAPS 3’s Oklahoma City Convention Center project also came in well under budget, returning more money to the program. Other additional money comes from interest and unused contingency funds.

MAPS 3 sales tax collections are by law required to fund capital improvement projects. The City Council has discretion on how to spend the funds, as long as it’s for capital projects and not operations or other uses.

About the projects

Union Station sits at the southwest corner of Scissortail Park’s upper section. The City’s Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority (COTPA) owns the building and has offices in it. The City will buy and renovate it to incorporate it into the park.

Other parts of the newly approved funding will pay for further improvements to Scissortail Park’s 30-acre Lower Park, including a better connection to the Oklahoma River south of SW 15th Street. Construction is scheduled to begin this year and finish in 2021.

The Fairgrounds Coliseum is partially funded by $63 million of MAPS 4 funds. The rest of the funding will come from Tuesday’s Council action and at least $25 million from hotel tax revenues already earmarked for fairgrounds improvements. It will be the new home of major national, state and local events that attract visitors from around the world who boost the local economy with their spending.

The improvements at the MAPS 3 Senior Health and Wellness Centers are to ensure parking lots, locker rooms and other facilities will meet anticipated demand. The first center has already been expanded with additional public and private funds after initial demand exceeded expectations. That prompted the use of the additional funding for the new centers to help meet needs from day one.

These were the requests made by the MAPS Board.

Fairgrounds got the full $9M requested; senior centers got the almost $5M they wanted.

Union Station got $19M of the $30M they asked for; trails got $0 despite asking for $20M.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/maps041420a.jpg

Nvm...

Trails should have gotten the 9 over the FG...

Trails should have gotten the 9 over the FG...

Yep, fairgrounds should've gotten nothing, the citizens need more trails and senior centers, just glad Union Station didn't get screwed completely.

Maybe they should hold off on thinking there's any extra money until they see how COVID affect revenues?

MAPS3 dollars are fully collected and just have to be allocated. MAPS3 ended prior to Safer Streets, which just ended 3/31. 4/1 began MAPS4 collection.

Seriously unimpressed with the Fairgrounds taking MAPS 3 money for a MAPS 4 project.

Drive north on I-40 Amarillo Junction, you'll see the impact of the horse shows with all the trailers parked where All Sports Stadium use to sit. The Bennett Event Center accommodates the trade shows associated with the horse related activity. Like it or not, many on this forum questioned the State Fair Board Trust management of the fairgrounds; the new State Fair Coliseum will be a game changer for Oklahoma City to retain and keep these events; also notice the hotels on the Meridian Hotel Corridor as many improvements are being made. The new State Fair Coliseum will be an engine to generate out-of-state sales tax dollars.

https://businessviewmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/oklahoma-state-fair-park-aerial_f.png
State Fair Park, in Oklahoma City is one of the largest and busiest event facilities in the country, as well as the center of Oklahoma City’s status as “Horse Show Capital of the World.” --https://businessviewmagazine.com/oklahoma-state-fair-park-versatile-venue/

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/large960_blur-94bb12cc09c65bfb713f79314d1a8c46.jpg


Over the past five years, an average of 836,000 horse show visitors have spent $175 million each year in Oklahoma City hotels and restaurants, adding $8.16 million to the city’s sales tax coffers.

Horse shows are big business for OKC https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/economy/horse-shows-are-big-business-for-okc/?back=super_blog

I think the problem, at least for me, is the State Fair Board let most of us think we still had a "fairgrounds"...instead it has been transformed into a horse show venue. Nothing wrong with that but just let the people know.

https://majorskylights.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/n596-bennetteventcent-okc-22385-lemke-0417.jpg
Bennett Event Center, $58.7 million, 279,000-square-foot expo building.

https://statefairparkokc.com/uploads//oksf-ext-c0100-4k-final-update.jpg



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Dz3_K95Zo&feature=youtu.be

State Fair Park has primarily transformed into an exposition
grounds. The State Fair of Oklahoma operates 10 days annually in September.

The SFA will be replaced with a new venue, the State Fair Coliseum estimated to cost in the range of $100 million.

The $9 million in funds (MAPS 3) will be a starter to help with construction and anticipated MAPS 4 penny sales tax shortages anticipated from the Covid-19 pandemic.

Forecast: Oklahoma City voters may be asked to extend MAPS 4 (One or two years) in order to complete the package of 16 projects approved by voters in December 2019.

Concern: The new Big House will have a maximum seating capacity for basketball 7,300 (4,700 fixed seats & 2,600 lower/upper level retractable seats). The State Fair Arena could seat 10,300 for high school basketball playoffs.

Trails should have gotten the 9 over the FG...

Absolutely ZERO chance the council was going to let $20MM for trails south of the river into South OKC. Heaven forbid South be connected to the trail system. Remind me again how much funding Hefner and the Katy trail been awarded in the last few years?

Absolutely ZERO chance the council was going to let $20MM for trails south of the river into South OKC. Heaven forbid South be connected to the trail system. Remind me again how much funding Hefner and the Katy trail been awarded in the last few years?

It is the status quo for this city. In the MAPS 4 meetings on parks, the parks directory admitted that south okc has been neglected when it comes to parks and the whole city council and mayor just moved on without addressing the issue. I loathe our city government.

Not really sure where to put this and doesn't deserve its own thread but I am surprised to see them resurfacing and putting new curbs in on S Walker between 59 and 74th. What is surprising is putting in new curbs without the handicap access ramp in the curb. If they ever get around to doing sidewalks which this area needs, we will have to pay for all the curbs to be redone again