https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1519108_650906474973554_333989201_o.jpg

There is going to come a point where the various maps projects will need significant and costly maintenance.
At some point there will be an end to what can be responsibly built and maintained.

Commuter rail should be on the next maps vote and packaged with other needed projects.
OKC schools still need a lot of improvemnts.

There is going to come a point where the various maps projects will need significant and costly maintenance.
At some point there will be an end to what can be responsibly built and maintained.

Commuter rail should be on the next maps vote and packaged with other needed projects.
OKC schools still need a lot of improvemnts.

If I remember right they were bending the rules as it was to even do MAPS for kids, the funding for the other issues of the schools may have to go through a different funding mechanism.

Would a "MAPS for transportation' be a good idea? Unfortunately, I could foresee majority of the funds being focused on expanding highways and improving sprawl roads rather than HSR and other forms of public trans.

Would a "MAPS for transportation' be a good idea? Unfortunately, I could foresee majority of the funds being focused on expanding highways and improving sprawl roads rather than HSR and other forms of public trans.

I think that has been the consensus on the board for MAPS IV. More streetcar, buses, bike lanes, side walks. Some people have mentioned an RTA (Regional Transit Authority) as more of a county-wide tax for rail (commuter, light, high-speed, whatever you want to call it) and other transit option that would help out the whole county, not just OKC.

There was $835.5 million GO bond in 2007 that was a 10 year bond and that will come due around the same time as another MAPS tax would start. So, instead of asking people to pay $500 million for street repairs in OKC as part of MAPS, it could be worked into the next bond issue and those be kept seperate.

Who is Excited About the Future Core to Shore Park? | News OK (http://newsok.com/who-is-excited-about-the-future-core-to-shore-park/article/3924209)

Read the whole post folks....

Our park is gonna suck compared to Tulsa's... lol

Our park is gonna suck compared to Tulsa's... lol

Really, really suck compared to Tulsa's. Ours is just going to be a huge Myriad Gardens, which the Gardens aren't bad, we just had an amazing chance to build something spectacular & we end up with a large version of something we already have.

Wow, I guess I just see these two parks completely differently here. Tulsa's park will be in more of natural setting. Tulsa's park looks bad ass and there is nothing to say we couldn't get something built like that in the future maybe around the AICCM. The central park is going to be placed in downtown surrounded by mid and high-rises. What am I missing here? Are we doubting development is going to happen?

This park looks fine. Tulsa's park looks like a park that will be an attraction and our park looks like something that will resemble a scaled down NYC Central Park. Our park is something bigger cities would seem to build for their residents and not necessarily trying to attack horde of tourist like the one in Tulsa probably will. Anyhow, both parks will be cool. I really fail to see what all of the fuss is about.

Really, really suck compared to Tulsa's. Ours is just going to be a huge Myriad Gardens, which the Gardens aren't bad, we just had an amazing chance to build something spectacular & we end up with a large version of something we already have.

I don't think it's going to be at all like the Myriad Gardens. The design is a little pedestrian, but all I really wanted was grass, trees and trails. I didn't want a really weirdly shaped lake, but it looks the rest is about what I'd hoped. The less programming, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

My biggest concern is it almost looks like in some of the renderings the hardscaping looks like they are ignoring the possibility that anyone might be coming from the local streets adjacent to the park, which seems totally backwards if you are trying to entice medium to high density buildings to be constructed on the edges.

I don't think it's going to be at all like the Myriad Gardens. The design is a little pedestrian, but all I really wanted was grass, trees and trails. I didn't want a really weirdly shaped lake, but it looks the rest is about what I'd hoped. The less programming, the better, as far as I'm concerned.Agreed. This looks like a park that will be great for families living next to it and being able to just walk around, enjoy life, watch the kids chase each other(if you're a mom and/or dad), feed the birds while sitting on a bench(if you're an elderly lady), etc. This will be a great park I think and will become an awesome addition to downtown. The Myriad serves an entirely different purpose.

Agreed. This looks like a park that will be great for families living next to it and being able to just walk around, enjoy life, watch the kids chase each other(if you're a mom and/or dad), feed the birds while sitting on a bench(if you're an elderly lady), etc. This will be a great park I think and will become an awesome addition to downtown. The Myriad serves an entirely different purpose.

Every reason you just described could be considered a reason why people go to the Myriad Gardens. Maybe the MAPs 3 park is different, but it's certainly not entirely different.

The Myriad serves an entirely different purpose.

Not trying to be argumentative, but what's the entirely different purpose that the Myriad Gardens serve? When I go to the Myriad Gardens, it's to walk around, enjoy life, if I had kids, I would take them there -- I know I would because I've thought to myself "If I had kids, I would bring them here" lol -- , I enjoy feeding the fish / ducks. Your points are great, so I'm not trying to take that away, I just thought the Myriad Gardens served the purpose that you listed our new park as having.

The Myriad Gardens is a series of outdoor "rooms" to me. When you walk from area to area, it changes fairly dramatically. It reminds me of a more contemporary version of an English garden. The different rooms make you look around, pay attention, observe the differences. If you have a large park with long swathes of green, very little changes. To traverse the park, you go for a stroll. It's a very relaxing exercise where you can basically chill out. It's more like being out in nature. On great big lawns, you see people sleeping, reading, playing frisbee. It's very social, and yet you don't really have to interact. I see the two parks as very different and appealing for different reasons. But, for me, the big green space with trees, paths and not a lot else is what I'm looking for on a sunny afternoon when the temperature is perfect.

The Myriad Gardens is a series of outdoor "rooms" to me. When you walk from area to area, it changes fairly dramatically. It reminds me of a more contemporary version of an English garden. The different rooms make you look around, pay attention, observe the differences. If you have a large park with long swathes of green, very little changes. To traverse the park, you go for a stroll. It's a very relaxing exercise where you can basically chill out. It's more like being out in nature. On great big lawns, you see people sleeping, reading, playing frisbee. It's very social, and yet you don't really have to interact. I see the two parks as very different and appealing for different reasons. But, for me, the big green space with trees, paths and not a lot else is what I'm looking for on a sunny afternoon when the temperature is perfect.

I know it's just a matter of personal opinion & what you're saying makes complete sense to me. I suppose it's because I go specifically to just sit, chill out, breathe in the fresh air & if they're out, it's always fun to watch the people working out in the open lawn area, in a non-creepy way. The Myriad Gardens is like a place of rest, peace, & restoration in the middle of the heart beat of our city. I'm hoping that's what the new park will be like, but on a much larger scale.

Not trying to be argumentative, but what's the entirely different purpose that the Myriad Gardens serve? When I go to the Myriad Gardens, it's to walk around, enjoy life, if I had kids, I would take them there -- I know I would because I've thought to myself "If I had kids, I would bring them here" lol -- , I enjoy feeding the fish / ducks. Your points are great, so I'm not trying to take that away, I just thought the Myriad Gardens served the purpose that you listed our new park as having.naw I completely understand where you're coming from man. Luckily Betts responded before me because I have trouble putting thoughts into words sometimes.

But what I was trying to say what pretty much what Betts said. To me, the Myriad Gardens seems more like a showcase type area where you go to have a "tourist" kind of experience with the Botanical atrium, thunder fountain, restaurant etc. and is something people will plan to see.

The new Central Park is more of a "hey family, you want to spend the evening playing in the park tonight" or perhaps having your kids if they can go play with their friends in the park while you're cooking dinner or whatever a few stories above, or perhaps just sitting around your home bored and you decide to just take stroll out in the park or go lay down in the grass and take a nap(that might be weird here in Oklahoma but people in bigger cities do it all the time) or just decide to go for a late night jog at the last second before you goto bed.

I will still likely go to the Myriad Gardens more though. I usually visit there like 3-4 times a month. I love that place.

It will be so exciting to have this new park though with an amazing urban district around it. Hopefully it isn't ruined by the new boulevard. Can't wait for all this stuff to be built though. I find myself going downtown more and more. Especially with Native Roots, I've been shopping there a bunch! All the more reason to go I guess.

Anyhow, I totally get what you're saying though. Hopefully we get some cool park like Tulsa's along our river someday. I just think this park should be more like NYC's Central Park. Just matter of preference I suppose though. That's what makes new things better is public input though :)

I just think this park should be more like NYC's Central Park. Just matter of preference I suppose though. That's what makes new things better is public input though :)

True, plupan, because Central Park in New York is more about people just having a nice green area to relax than having a multitude of activities to engage in.

naw I completely understand where you're coming from man. Luckily Betts responded before me because I have trouble putting thoughts into words sometimes.

But what I was trying to say what pretty much what Betts said. To me, the Myriad Gardens seems more like a showcase type area where you go to have a "tourist" kind of experience with the Botanical atrium, thunder fountain, restaurant etc. and is something people will plan to see.

The new Central Park is more of a "hey family, you want to spend the evening playing in the park tonight" or perhaps having your kids if they can go play with their friends in the park while you're cooking dinner or whatever a few stories above, or perhaps just sitting around your home bored and you decide to just take stroll out in the park or go lay down in the grass and take a nap(that might be weird here in Oklahoma but people in bigger cities do it all the time) or just decide to go for a late night jog at the last second before you goto bed.

I will still likely go to the Myriad Gardens more though. I usually visit there like 3-4 times a month. I love that place.

It will be so exciting to have this new park though with an amazing urban district around it. Hopefully it isn't ruined by the new boulevard. Can't wait for all this stuff to be built though. I find myself going downtown more and more. Especially with Native Roots, I've been shopping there a bunch! All the more reason to go I guess.

Anyhow, I totally get what you're saying though. Hopefully we get some cool park like Tulsa's along our river someday. I just think this park should be more like NYC's Central Park. Just matter of preference I suppose though. That's what makes new things better is public input though :)

As with betts post, I see where you are coming from. I never saw it as a showcase / outdoor room because I've always went there to relax & I don't really walk around a ton unless I'm arriving / leaving. I didn't expect everyone to see the botanical gardens the way I did, but I just never really considered the different opinions others might have of it, but now that you guys have gone into detail about what you see the Myriad Gardens as versus the expected setting of our new park compared to other large parks -- the only large park in the middle of a city I've been to is the Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta, which is more of a dedication space but also has the park elements you & betts mention -- & it makes complete sense to me.

I never disliked our future park, I've been excited for it since I first heard about it, I just never really considered the differing setting that betts, ljbab728, & yourself have mentioned & now I "see the light" so to speak. It will definitely be a spot many others & myself will visit fairly regularly, I just never considered the "NYC central park, family setting, stroll in the park, get away from life" type setting you all speak of.

Maybe it's just the rendering style, but despite it's large size, The Gathering Place looks far more welcoming and intimate to me. Like a long string of differing spaces. Perhaps that's the influence of the river. I also really like the boardwalks over the pond in Moore's Central Park. And for what it's worth, it seems that each set of renderings from Hargreaves has shown less and less of interest to me. I'm quite underwhelmed for $132MM. I understand the concept of limiting programming to keep O&M cost manageable, but the Tulsa design seems to do a much better job of creating separate beautiful spaces with trees and rocks and water.

Remember though, you're looking at the parks from a different perspective. The Tulsa pictures are an artists' rendering of what it would look like walking through the park, while you're looking at a landscape architecture design with the OKC park. They can make an artists' rendering as pretty as they want. Also, lets be honest, Tulsa's climate is much more vegetation and water feature friendly than ours. I think ours will be fine. We can add features later if we want them. I don't think our design is groundbreaking (sorry about the pun!), but I think it will still be a nice park.

I hear what you're saying, but accounting for a duplicate image, four of the images Steve presented are from a ground level perspective. As I said, maybe it's just rendering style, but I think I'll take the image presented in the Tulsa renderings every time, and I think the strangely unnatural shape of our water feature might be off-putting to me as well.

Steve's update on the Maps Legacy

MAPS 20th Anniversary | News OK (http://newsok.com/business/maps-turns-20)

Continuing good news for Maps 3 viability.

Oklahoma City update: MAPS 3 tax collections ahead of projections | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-update-maps-3-tax-collections-ahead-of-projections/article/5349133)


MAPS 3 tax collections are running 6 percent ahead of projections.

Also from that link:


o The city council on Tuesday will get an update on plans for a hotel to be built adjacent to the MAPS 3 convention center.
o A MAPS 3 construction outline for the next five years also is on the agenda for Tuesday’s council meeting.

Sounds like today's Council meeting may be fairly interesting. They usually stream the meetings online on the city's YouTube channel, so hopefully I'll have time to tune in.

Said stream (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqRb01vw6SE), if anyone is interested. I tuned in late, though, so I don't know if the MAPS 3 update is already out of the way. They are currently discussing the rideshare ordinance.

An update by Bill Crum on what the city council will be looking at from the various advisory committee recommendations.

Oklahoma City Council to review advisory committees' recommendations on latest MAPS 3 projects developments | Oklahoman.com (http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5423306&headline=Oklahoma%20City%20Council%20to%20review%2 0advisory%20committees%27%20recommendations%20on%2 0latest%20MAPS%203%20projects%20developments)

http://www.okc.gov/news/2015_06/MAPS_3_West_River_Trail_to_open_June_27_with_inaug ural_bike_rides_and_free_events.html


MAPS 3 West River Trail to open June 27 with inaugural bike rides and free events

(June 11, 2015) - The community is invited to celebrate the opening of Oklahoma City’s new West River Trail with bike rides and a free family festival from 9 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. Saturday, June 27.

Is the west trail actually open all the way to downtown? I heard a bit of grumbling it was still not connected to the river.

I rode it from Regatta Park to Overholser Monday night and connected via the south river trail without too much difficulty. The south river trail ends behind the chinese buffet on SW 15th and Meridian; you just hop down into their parking lot and then go back north across the bridge to get on the west river trail.

There were a few places where more work is needed (one section lacked the top asphalt layer, a little more signage, etc.) but overall it was a nice ride!

I will say next time I will be spraying myself down with DEET. It was a little more like the "west nile river trail" with all the mosquito action.

An update in William Crum's interview with Tom McDaniel.

NewsOK Videos | MAPS 3 has ground to make up (http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/4506896393001)

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5449226&headline=MAPS%203%20delays%20do%20not%20pose%20pro blem%20to%20consultant

My only question is, the say they are 6% ahead in sales tax so if they stay on that pace, what are they doing with the extra almost 50 million?

My only question is, the say they are 6% ahead in sales tax so if they stay on that pace, what are they doing with the extra almost 50 million?

I don't think they'd plan on spending it until the final project... because sales tax collections for the coming year or two might end up lower than expected. It would be prudent to wait and then expend it on sidewalks or trails or some other community amenity.

I agree. I just didn't know if they hit their projections early if they would end the tax or just continue until the end of the collection period.

I agree. I just didn't know if they hit their projections early if they would end the tax or just continue until the end of the collection period.

In the past ones, they've always continued to the end. I'm not sure they could even suspend collection early since it as a voter-approved tax.

Yeah, that makes sense. In the past have the over collected and just come up with a smaller project at the end?

Yeah, that makes sense. In the past have the over collected and just come up with a smaller project at the end?

Not sure about over collecting, but the MAPS with the arena had to have an extension to fund it, IIRC. It seems like they added a 6 month extension....

Great video showing a fly-over of the new west river trail:

O3Peh9hjOpg

Where are some of the access points to this trail?

http://www.okc.gov/trails/documents/WestRiverTrail_Map.pdf

I've ridden the West River Trail a few times now; I like it a lot. It is almost eerie in certain places because you get the feeling that you're way out in the middle of the woods somewhere.

I need to dust off my bike and ride it as well.

I can easily jump on the OK River trail from where I live and ride all the way up to Lake Hefner.

I have walked the entire trail a few times and I really like it. There was a lot of thought put into this trail and look forward to seeing the other MAPS 3 trails projects. You can tell there was pent up demand from the bicycling community because it was used before it was even completely finished. Probably my second favorite trail after the part of the trail between Meridian and the Boathouse district.

The main thing for the biking community is you can now get in some decent distance on a dedicated bike lane, all the way from the east of the river trail up to and around Lake Hefner.

They will also be connection Lake Hefner to points south with a dedicated bike trail along I-44.

Normally I don't care that much for dedicated trails but in OKC there are almost zero dedicated bike lines and people here are no used to having cyclists on the road with them. Truthfully, I don't think I would ride alone apart from the dedicated trails and I used to do 80% of my rides alone.

What is the timeline on the I-44 trail? I can't find the project map on the city's website anymore.

I've ridden the West River Trail a few times now; I like it a lot. It is almost eerie in certain places because you get the feeling that you're way out in the middle of the woods somewhere.

Definitely. The only time I've ever ridden it was at the grand opening, but at one point I saw a buffalo behind a fence. I had no idea that was even legal (perhaps it isn't?).

What is the timeline on the I-44 trail? I can't find the project map on the city's website anymore.

They are supposed to start construction soon and be finished near the end of the year.

Here is the map for the northern portion of the I-44 trail; looking for the southern portion but it goes all the way down to the OK River:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i44trailupper.jpg

This is the MAPs project that will honestly have the greatest impact on my personally. I love to bike, but getting to a trail I can enjoy without dodging cars is not easy now. Once this I-44 portion is complete, I'll be able to safely ride from my house at about NW 30th and May all the way to both lakes and the river. I'd rather have safe bike lanes on the street grid, but for just exercise and recreation, this is excellent.

^

Agree completely.

Can't wait for it to be finished.

Definitely. The only time I've ever ridden it was at the grand opening, but at one point I saw a buffalo behind a fence. I had no idea that was even legal (perhaps it isn't?).

Yeah! I swear I saw a deer in the same pen along with that buffalo a couple times. Not sure what's going on there (I could have been hallucinating due to exertion?).

No hallucination there. I have a friend that bikes all of the major trails every Saturday. The tricky part is the Katy trail that turns into a sidewalk coming into downtown or the Grand trail from the Dell campus to the park at South 29th which is just the street with no sidewalk. I hope the I44 isn't a glorified sidewalk on that northern section. I was out of town last year and missed the presentation the city did. Did anyone here go?

I went to a BikeWalkOKC meeting and griped at the planners about things like the sidewalk being part of the trail in that one little stretch, among many other things...

Here is the map for the northern portion of the I-44 trail; looking for the southern portion but it goes all the way down to the OK River:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i44trailupper.jpg

I'm not a biker but I will enjoy the northern part of that along Meridian and 63rd. That's about a block from where I live and there are no sidewalks at all in that area along those streets.

I'd rather have safe bike lanes on the street grid, but for just exercise and recreation, this is excellent.

Interesting comment. Maybe this is different than what I thought. What exactly is this trail (in this I-44 part) if not dedicated bike lanes? Are the trails running near the I-44 corridor going to be actual off-street trails like the others?

One other quick question. Looking at the route map that Pete posted, I'm curious if the Northwest Expressway and Meridian intersection will be some kind of fly-over?

Great video Pete in #579.

There is a difference between bike trails that are used for recreational cycling, and bike lanes that are used for transportation. The trails we're building are great if you just want to ride, but if you'd like to use your bike to get somewhere that otherwise requires a car, we need to integrate bike lanes into the streets.

Fifth senior wellness center considered

MAPS 3 has extra money

By: Sarah Terry-Cobo The Journal Record December 14, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – A MAPS 3 overage could be a boon for seniors.

Most MAPS 3 subcommittee members are in favor of considering a fifth senior wellness center in Oklahoma City. Committee member Terri Watkins said she wasn’t yet convinced adding a fifth wellness center should be a priority.

The Metropolitan Area Projects 3 senior health and wellness center subcommittee discussed on Wednesday a measure to support adding another facility. Residents aged 50 and older need access to reasonably priced fitness facilities. Another wellness center could improve the health of the city’s aging population.

Subcommittee chairman Mike Dover said his group is not asking for money yet, and they haven’t yet decided on a location or a contractor to run another center. If there is broad support for another senior wellness center, then his subcommittee would examine the best place to put it, he said.

Subcommittee member Sam Bowman said if voters responding to polls supported trails, sidewalks and wellness centers, then the committee should consider supporting another wellness center.

Watkins voted against the resolution, but she said she isn’t necessarily opposed to a fifth center. She said the city needs wellness centers because those facilities are vitally important to improve Oklahoma City residents’ health. Better health outcomes will improve the local economy, she said.

“I’m not there yet on whether a fifth wellness center is a priority above sidewalks,” Watkins said, “when I see people walking in the streets in neighborhoods and I know the economic impact of a park.”

She said it’s too soon to determine the best priority, because the city needs more sidewalks.

MAPS program manager David Todd said early discussions of MAPS 3 projects included four or five senior wellness centers.

Dover said the resolution provides a signal to the City Council that if there is surplus money after the convention center and the downtown Central Park projects have received bids, subcommittee members have suggestions on how to spend it. Members passed a resolution Wednesday to recommend consideration of an additional wellness center to the MAPS advisory board. If the advisory board approves the recommendation, then it will send a report to the City Council identifying the interest.

The project is contingent on excess revenues generated from MAPS 3’s 1-cent sales tax, Todd said. The first senior wellness center is nearing completion and is slated to open in February 2017. It cost about $9.6 million. Each of the four approved centers are slightly different, but should provide similar services, Todd said.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/12/16/oklahoma-citys-maps-is-a-model-public-works-program/#5f4380054783


With pending completion of MAPS 3, locals are already weighing the possibility of a 4th MAPS. If that's approved, it will, said Williams, arrive within a different context than the previous three. The initial point of the program was to bring the city through tough times. Now Oklahoma City is an emerging global city that's competing for companies and workers with nearby rivals like Houston and Dallas. This means, he said, that the nature of the investments must be more targeted.

Article is about MAPs in general. Interesting mention of MAPs 4 though....

^

That's all code for the Chamber and powers that be wanting to make a big push in the Innovation District and provide more corporate incentives.