Wouldn't it be a great tennant in The Rise?

Yeah, I heard today that Crescent Market is thinking about going back into their old space and that Trader Joe's is probably not an option there.

Yeah, I heard today that Crescent Market is thinking about going back into their old space and that Trader Joe's is probably not an option there.

I'm not buying this because Crescent previously required a "subsidy" from Chesapeake Land through a break in rent, and they won't be as generous with subsidies now that Aubrey is leaving. Also, Crescent wasn't successful before Whole Foods moved into the neighborhood - they wouldn't stand a chance now.

I'm not buying this because Crescent previously required a "subsidy" from Chesapeake Land through a break in rent, and they won't be as generous with subsidies now that Aubrey is leaving. Also, Crescent wasn't successful before Whole Foods moved into the neighborhood - they wouldn't stand a chance now.

I'm not saying it's a smart business move, but I did have an extremely reliable source tell me that. I also didn't say it's a done deal, but rather that the Crescent owners are thinking about it.

Crescent would have to step up their game big time to actually compete. Crescent had become stale but looked good vs. Homeland or WalMart. Against Whole Foods, Sprouts, or even the new Crests they aren't special.

Much tougher for Crescent now as 1) a brand new and heavily subsidized Whole Foods is a block away; 2) no doubt they will be charged more rent and 3) they don't have the drug store and lunch counter next door to help draw traffic.

Wouldn't it be a great tennant in The Rise?

OMG yes

I was going to write up my feelings about Trader Joe's and why I think WF or even WMNM would be a better choice but I found this online. It sums up what I would have said way better than I could have: Cart Snob (http://www.cartsnob.com/)

The story is very misleading (it's a load of 'c--p'). Ironically, I have shoped and lived near both of the stores quoted in the story. I lived in Cary and then moved to N. Raleigh. After 7 years we moved to Alpharetta GA, and the closest TJ is a few miles away in Rosewell - where I will be going after writing this. Over time we have come to discover our health is now depended on eating non-processed, low sodium, or gluten free foods (for my sons health). We are pleased to see local Walmart grocery stores introduce gluten free, and otherwise offer more healthy choices. This also true of Kroger. But, in both cases, it is much CHEAPER to get the same or similar products at TJ. And, there are many products not availabe at WM or Kroger that we can only get at TJ. Traders bases it's buisness on healthy, enviormentally friendly, and 'exotic' foods. This combined with wine is the core of their buisness. Whole pineapples are as cheap at TJ as at Walmart - and almost half the cost of at Publix or Kroger. Since a lot of processed food is high in salt, when Traders carries it it is due to it being exotic - my son loves his Tika Masala (made in Canada). I am happy that I can find a gluten-free frozen pizza for him for under $4. If healthy, alternative foods are not your thing, you can find cheaper places. But, like myself - who grew up shopping at Crest because it was cheap, you will find yourself forced to shop at a TJ or Whole Foods - for the repair of your health. There are one of the original Whole Foods down the street even closer than Traders. We often shop there because they offer a greater variety of healthy, and exotic foods - but you sure pay for it. Trader is cheaper because they make direct contracts with the producer in their area. So, in N. Carolina strawberries and blueberries are cheaper because they are local - and you pay more for the product that is shiped across the country. That is true of all their stores. Having said this, Trader will not be the best for everyone, but it does get a lot of young professional, multi-cultural, and health concious buisness. A 1/4 of any Traders store is Wine - and I've shopped at least 5 stores (Cary and central Raleigh - Atlanta, Sand Springs, and Rosewell) and they are all layed-out this way. Just like their food, they act as wholesalers or direct-ship vendors, so the prices are very cheap for good products. I suspect this is very important to their buisness plan - and so I don't see them moving into Oklahoma unless the laws are changed.

Traders bases it's buisness on healthy, enviormentally friendly, and 'exotic' foods. This combined with wine is the core of their buisness.

Is their wine healthy, environmentally friendly, and exotic?

A 1/4 of any Traders store is Wine - and I've shopped at least 5 stores (Cary and central Raleigh - Atlanta, Sand Springs, and Rosewell) and they are all layed-out this way. Just like their food, they act as wholesalers or direct-ship vendors, so the prices are very cheap for good products. I suspect this is very important to their buisness plan - and so I don't see them moving into Oklahoma unless the laws are changed.
Trader Joe's can only sell wine in one (1) store in the state of Colorado but they are going to open up stores here anyway, just like what that Whole Foods has done. The only Whole Foods with wine (and "high point beer") is in Boulder, the Trader Joe's with wine will be in a redevelopment area east of Downtown Denver.

Washington is the only state that does not require a three-tier distribution system in which they could not act as their own distributor or is has a alcoholic beverage control jurisdictions in which the state acts as the distributor. Even their own private label wine has to go through a distributorship (or state agency) in those states that require it.

Somebody told me that Trader Joe's was trying to get a local partner to open up a liquor store next door to sell their beer and wine. Is this possible under the Oklahoma liquor laws?

As long as they have been an Oklahoma resident for the previous 10 years and do not currently own a store (for a new licensee), then they can. An existing store could possibly relocate to a space like that, it would just have to meet relocation approval. This is how the liquor stores in Costco/Sam's stores in Texas and Colorado are handled, they build a space next to but completely separate from the main store and lease the space to a licensed operator. In Texas Costco only sells beer/win, in Colorado only 3.2 beer, the adjacent liquor stores sell the rest.

The Colorado example is a little misleading. Sure, Colorado may have similarly restrictive liquor laws, but it also has a lot more health-conscious shoppers than the typical state.

What does "health conscience" have to do with it liquor laws and how stores operate around them? Colorado is also the "Napa Valley of Craft Beer" and The Great American Beer Festival here sold out in about 30 minutes. You can't walk or around downtown without passing a high number of brewpubs and there are quite a few of them out here in the burbs and multiple ones in pretty much every decent sized mountain town. I was merely stating the falsehood that liquor laws were preventing stores from opening up from opening up in OKC and/or Tulsa. We all know that OKC demographics are skewed but many national retailers don't seem top have a clue that OKC seems to operate from a completely different set of parameters than many other cities. I think the liquor laws here and in Oklahoma are screwed up but they really aren't that much worse than many so-called "liberal states" like Massachusetts (the last time that I was there a few years ago they still only sold beer/wine/liquor in package stores) or the 18 states which still have state owned liquor stores and some of those include beer/wine in that.

Many of those so called "health-conscious" people that I knew in Austin (and here) are some of the biggest partiers/drinkers that I knew. They are "health-conscious" to balance out what they do with the rest of their life, they haven't hit the age yet where their behavior has caught up with them.

What does "health conscience" have to do with it liquor laws and how stores operate around them? Colorado is also the "Napa Valley of Craft Beer" and The Great American Beer Festival here sold out in about 30 minutes. You can't walk or around downtown without passing a high number of brewpubs and there are quite a few of them out here in the burbs and multiple ones in pretty much every decent sized mountain town. I was merely stating the falsehood that liquor laws were preventing stores from opening up from opening up in OKC and/or Tulsa. We all know that OKC demographics are skewed but many national retailers don't seem top have a clue that OKC seems to operate from a completely different set of parameters than many other cities. I think the liquor laws here and in Oklahoma are screwed up but they really aren't that much worse than many so-called "liberal states" like Massachusetts (the last time that I was there a few years ago they still only sold beer/wine/liquor in package stores) or the 18 states which still have state owned liquor stores and some of those include beer/wine in that.

Many of those so called "health-conscious" people that I knew in Austin (and here) are some of the biggest partiers/drinkers that I knew. They are "health-conscious" to balance out what they do with the rest of their life, they haven't hit the age yet where their behavior has caught up with them.

Wow. Seems I struck a chord. My point was that Colorado is an attractive market for Trader Joe's regardless of its liquor laws, because Coloradans are likely shoppers. No biggie.

Is their wine healthy, environmentally friendly, and exotic?
Yes

More importantly, it is consumed by the same demographic... foodies. People who take their time and prepare meals, and enjoy something 'different'. Wine is a traditional evening meal beverage for a lot of different cultures. Taken by itself, the exclusion of wine would not Keep a Trader Joes out of any market. But, combined with a population that shows no demand for non-tradional fare, Tj would be taking a big chance going into such a market. Now, having said this, I believe TJ would be successful if it located a store in specific areas of OKC and Tulsa. Bricktown in OKC could support this due to the combinations of location (central - more of less), demographic of the new residences located near by, and destination location for a greater population that would then shop at TJ for the novelity - and some would then return rutinely. Since there are a lot more attractice markets nationwide, there is little incentive for Traders to 'take a chance'. Knowing the market, I don't think it would be a chance - but looking at it from the 'outside' and seeing how how well it fits their 'ideal' target market I could see their reluctance. Colorado is not as much of a chance because despite its similar laws, its population demographic fits to their target audience. I know OKC is changing, but has not been to long ago that when a 'fast-food' company wanted to test its marketability, it would open stores in OKC under the philosophy that okies are the most fast-food friendly market.

Was at TJ today at Plano and Preston. Very busy. Lots of people buying wine. I saw several license tags in the parking lot with Oklahoma tags! TJ will work well in OKC and Tulsa! I love the diverse selection of their private brands. Lots of great stuff!!

Was at TJ today at Plano and Preston. Very busy. Lots of people buying wine. I saw several license tags in the parking lot with Oklahoma tags! TJ will work well in OKC and Tulsa! I love the diverse selection of their private brands. Lots of great stuff!!

Have you tried Central Market? That use to be our favorite in Dallas ... all those prepared meals and great selection. Still, I'd bet they were more expensive than TJ.

Have you tried Central Market? That use to be our favorite in Dallas ... all those prepared meals and great selection. Still, I'd bet they were more expensive than TJ. Yes I have tried Central Market. It is one of my favorites because they have a wonderful meat market and their produce is incredible! My favorite by far next to Whole Foods and TJ. CM also offers mozarella cheese made on the premises and great cooking classes. They have a wonderful wine selection too. Great for all the foodies! I shop at both the Plano location and the newest one at Preston and Royal.

Yes I have tried Central Market. It is one of my favorites because they have a wonderful meat market and their produce is incredible! My favorite by far next to Whole Foods and TJ. CM also offers mozarella cheese made on the premises and great cooking classes. They have a wonderful wine selection too. Great for all the foodies! I shop at both the Plano location and the newest one at Preston and Royal.

When I lived there they had just built the one on Lovers, which was a few miles north of where I lived (south of White Rock), and later built one near where I worked at Coit and George Bush Frwy - very convient. The selection is great, but I still think the prices are better at Trader Joes. Before CM we shopped for prepared foods at Eatiz original location downtown - best for prepared food, not as good for selection to prepare for yourself.

Trader Joe's is a store that is hard to explain until you really have experienced it many times and discovered all the little treasures scattered among it's shelves.

To wit, tonight I bought pumpkin butter (non-dairy but you can spread it on almost anything), some cinnamon apple goat cheese (amazing), a loaf of thick-cut cinnamon swirl bread (perfect for French toast), a package of 10 huge chili/onion flour tortillas, and a jar of fresh salsa.

Total, including tax: less than $14.

When I lived near SW 104th and Western I would walk or ride my bike to the Neighborhood Market to get groceries and I would always take my Trader Joe's reusable shopping bag that I picked up on a trip to California.

Hopefully I'll be able to use my Trader Joe's bag at a Trader Joe's instead.

Does anyone know if there has been any progress made on securing TJ for the OKC area. They just opened TJ on Lower Greenville Ave here in Dallas, and have started construction on a new shopping development on Walnut Hill and 75 where TJ will be anchoring a spot. I wonder how many locations OKC will be able to support? Anyone want to guess?

TJ's is scouting the OKC market and I'm sure we'll see some sort of announcement in the next year.

They tend to be a bit more "urban", so I would guess their first location would be on the near north side somewhere.

As for number of locations, that's hard to say but I suspect they would start with 2 or 3 and go from there.


Their stores are smaller, so they can have a bunch of them in pretty close proximity.

The Charlotte locations were both in strip centers similar to Spring Creek (the standard for suburban development there). I think Nichols Hills Plaza would be perfect for the first OKC location.

I know Denver will have its first TJ's open by the end of the year and another closer to downtown by the end of 2014. There is also one under construction in Boulder and one planned for Greenwood Village by the Denver version of Nichols Hills (Cherry Hills). With the ones in Kansas City, Omaha and Texas the state is pretty much surrounded.

TJ's is scouting the OKC market and I'm sure we'll see some sort of announcement in the next year.

They tend to be a bit more "urban", so I would guess their first location would be on the near north side somewhere.

As for number of locations, that's hard to say but I suspect they would start with 2 or 3 and go from there.


Their stores are smaller, so they can have a bunch of them in pretty close proximity.

It seems like they've been scouting locations for over 2 years.

The first Austin location is going to open any day now.

TJ's is scouting the OKC market and I'm sure we'll see some sort of announcement in the next year.

They tend to be a bit more "urban", so I would guess their first location would be on the near north side somewhere.

As for number of locations, that's hard to say but I suspect they would start with 2 or 3 and go from there.


Their stores are smaller, so they can have a bunch of them in pretty close proximity.

You went to TJ and didn't leave without at least one bottle of Two Buck Chuck? Sacrilege!

Comment From Guest: Hearing more about trader joe's comign to town. has thsst been confirmed?

Steve Lackmeyer: I'm hearing a Trader Joe's deal in the Oklahoma City metro has been struck ...

It looks like Trader Joe's will soon be coming to Central Oklahoma. Steve's response seems to indicate that it will be in the metro area but not in OKC proper. My guess is Edmond or Norman.

As for a downtown grocery store, a lot of people seem to be set on an urban style Target like the one in Minneapolis or the one in Charlotte. While that would be a great, welcome development, I would rather see a local grocery like Buy For Less open an Uptown Grocery-like concept in Midtown. I don't think there are currently enough people living in downtown OKC to support both.

Comment From Guest: Hearing more about trader joe's comign to town. has thsst been confirmed?

Steve Lackmeyer: I'm hearing a Trader Joe's deal in the Oklahoma City metro has been struck ...

It looks like Trader Joe's will soon be coming to Central Oklahoma. Steve's response seems to indicate that it will be in the metro area but not in OKC proper. My guess is Edmond or Norman.

As for a downtown grocery store, a lot of people seem to be set on an urban style Target like the one in Minneapolis or the one in Charlotte. While that would be a great, welcome development, I would rather see a local grocery like Buy For Less open an Uptown Grocery-like concept in Midtown. I don't think there are currently enough people living in downtown OKC to support both.

My bet is Nichols Hills Plaza -- old Crescent Market space.

My bet is Nichols Hills Plaza -- old Crescent Market space.

Yeah didn't think about that. That would be the perfect spot.

The old Crescent space is about 18,000 square feet and the Trader Joe's that have just been opened in Ft. Worth and Omaha (and most other places) are around 13,000 s.f.

But obviously, they could make that space work for them.

The only thing working against NH Plaza is that is sounds like it will be sold very soon, and it's unusual for big new leases to be signed when a property is in flux.


With Dallas, Ft. Worth and Omaha their first locations were not in suburbs; not in downtown either just in Lower Greenville in Dallas, near TCU in Ft. Worth. Seems like Nichols Hills would be right up their alley, especially since Whole Foods has blown out it's numbers right next door.

TJ's and WF don't really compete heads-up, as TJ's is much more price and value driven and WF more about organic items and higher price points. Out here in Cali, it's not unusual for them to be located near each other.


Really hope it does come to NH Plaza as that would make a lot of sense and be great first location.

Also, just remembered that in one of Steve's articles from early in 2013 -- after Aubrey McClendon's departure had been announced but prior to him actually stepping down -- he quoted the former employee of Chesapeake who was hired to start the company-run grocery store. That ex-employee said that Chesapeake was close to striking a deal with Trader Joe's. Then later, the deal fell apart because of the changes at Chesapeake.

It's common knowledge that McClendon personally negotiated a sweetheart deal for Whole Foods (he was thanked for his generosity at that store's grand opening) and I suspect similar concessions had been offered to TJ's after the CHK grocery plan fell through.

But I'm quite sure Aubrey was no longer able to unilaterally strike such deals with Chesapeake assets after the new Chair took over.


So, maybe this means the Plaza is now formally under contract (something we have heard) and the new owners were able to finalize a deal with TJ's, as the store obviously likes that location and it does make a lot of sense.


BTW, in one of his chats Steve indicated that Aubrey McClendon may be trying to buy some of the non-business real estate but it's my understanding that if Aubrey is involved in the group that his buying NH Plaza, it's only in a minor role.

Do you think they would locate that close to WF on a first outing? The numbers HAVE to look better in certain Edmond and/or Norman neighborhoods, by their standards. The only reason for the Classen Curve WF was Aubrey. If it had gone into the OKC metro organically (pun intended), it likely would have started in the 'burbs. I think unless Aubrey has managed to start influencing NHP real estate again, it is likely to be elsewhere...

Do you think they would locate that close to WF on a first outing? The numbers HAVE to look better in certain Edmond and/or Norman neighborhoods, by their standards. The only reason for the Classen Curve WF was Aubrey. If it had gone into the OKC metro organically (pun intended), it likely would have started in the 'burbs. I think unless Aubrey has managed to start influencing NHP real estate again, it is likely to be elsewhere...

Remember though that these stores choose location based on the number of high-income rooftops within at 1, 3, and 5 mile radius. Using their formula, Nichols Hills is probably the only place in the OKC metro that qualifies, it only barely.

Also, TJ's is more city oriented than suburbs.

They do go to the suburbs, but usually only after establishing locations in the cities themselves.

I realize NH is technically a suburb, but it's really just a small island in the middle of North OKC as opposed to Edmond, Norman, etc.


I'm sure TJ's will eventually go to Edmond and Moore/Norman but I doubt they would open their first Metro location in either.

Remember though that these stores choose location based on the number of high-income rooftops within at 1, 3, and 5 mile radius. Using their formula, Nichols Hills is probably the only place in the OKC metro that qualifies, it only barely.

I doubt that, actually. Based on low density in Nichols Hills and the poor-ish demographics in the higher-density neighborhoods outside of it (especially to the North and to the East), I strongly suspect some areas of Edmond would have far better demographics for the same radii. Also, assumption was that the Classen Curve location did NOT qualify, ergo incentives. It's fairly obvious where national retailers WANT to be sans-incentives; just look at where the more upscale nationals cluster. It ain't Nichols Hills/Classen Curve.

Aubrey is persona non grata in Nichols Hills for what he did to NH Plaza and how it has directly affected the pocketbooks of its residents. He ran off the south tenant base which decimated sales tax revenues, and they're having to increase water rates to make up the shortfall. If would add insult to injury if Trader Joe's had been ready to pick NH Plaza but couldn't keep waiting for CHK to consummate the sale to a buyer, and had to select a non-NH location. I guess we'll know soon enough.

I know of a local investment group that tried to buy NH Plaza but was rebuffed by CHK because they were holding out for several million more than the property can justify. They're a serious group, highly-respected, well-capitalized and deep in commercial real estate projects, and would be embraced by everyone. They were ready to write a check, but since CHK was unreasonable they had to walk away. More pain, uncertainty, and delay to businesses wanting NH Plaza as their future home.

As I stated earlier, I've heard NH Plaza, Classen Curve and perhaps some or all of the Triangle properties are under contract to the same buyer.

As with Ruth's Chris at CC, I'm hoping the Trader Joe's deal will be consummated once the sale is official. Wouldn't be surprised if everything has already been negotiated, just contingent on the closing of the property.


If all this works out, TJ's could go in there pretty quickly as the space is already gutted and ready to go and when they built out the store very near me, I was amazed at how fast it all went.

Also, TJ's is more city oriented than suburbs.

They do go to the suburbs, but usually only after establishing locations in the cities themselves.

I realize NH is technically a suburb, but it's really just a small island in the middle of North OKC as opposed to Edmond, Norman, etc.


I'm sure TJ's will eventually go to Edmond and Moore/Norman but I doubt they would open their first Metro location in either.
The Boulder and South Metro locations are opening the same day as the semi-close to Downtown Denver (8th & Colorado) location that is part of a bigger development under construction. The other locations are to open later. The one in Capitol Hill (right by my wife's office) was announced earlier this month.
Denver Post - Trader Joe's announces opening date for first Colorado stores, 5th location (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_24473754/trader-joes-announces-opening-date-first-colorado-stores)

The first Austin location is in the Rolligwood area of Southwest Austin (Bee Caves, west of Mopac), it opened a couple of months ago. Two more locations to open next year in The Arboretum (North Austin) and in the Seaholm Powerplant development in downtown.

TJ's and WF don't really compete heads-up, as TJ's is much more price and value driven and WF more about organic items and higher price points. Out here in Cali, it's not unusual for them to be located near each other.

Very true, Pete. TJ's and WF are both within walking distance of where my brother lives in LA.

Remember though that these stores choose location based on the number of high-income rooftops within at 1, 3, and 5 mile radius. Using their formula, Nichols Hills is probably the only place in the OKC metro that qualifies, it only barely.

I'm not doubting your stats, because I am clueless about such matters, but I have often looked curiously upon the TJ's in Tucson that don't seem to be anywhere near higher income areas, UNLESS they're banking on the people with expensive mountain/foothill homes, which I do notice all four of the locations are close-ish to the foothills... but even then, it's hard to imagine that population being enough to support FOUR locations! I'm actually surprised none of them are remotely close to downtown (or at least between downtown and the university), which is growing with condos and such, plus their streetcar line (which goes from downtown to the University), much like downtown OKC. Lastly, only one of the four is close-ish to the commonly recognized "best neighborhoods" in Tucson that I can tell. But I must disclaim that while I spent the first four years of my life there and have been back every other year since because I have family there (and I may well retire there), I'm not as intimately familiar with the area as others might be...

Trader Joe's opened their first San Antonio location over a year in the Quarry Village shopping center, about five miles north of downtown. A second location is now under construction in Stone Oak, about 15 miles north of downtown.

The rumor is TJ will open a store in Southtown, an art district just south of downtown. Other rumored locations include the Alamo Ranch area in far west San Antonio and Schertz/Cibolo suburbs.

It's also been rumored and pretty much confirmed that Aldi will expand into San Antonio after they're done with their current Houston build out.

From Steve's chat:

11:21 Comment From Gary T: What's the latest on Trader Joe's?

11:22 Steve Lackmeyer: I'll be shocked if a deal isn't done in the next few months.

I really think TJ's is waiting for the sale of Nichols Hills Plaza to be complete.

I've heard it is under contract and that Chesapeake did not want to sign any leases before the sale.

I also believe this is the same situation for Ruth's Chris at Classen Curve.

Per Steve's chat this is going into an existing structure.

I'm sure Steve is hearing exactly what I'm hearing: A lease for NH Plaza will be announced after the sale closes, which should be soon.

I'm sure Steve is hearing exactly what I'm hearing: A lease for NH Plaza will be announced after the sale closes, which should be soon.

Pretty much the spot we thought all along. For those that have been to both, what are the main differences between TJ and WF? I have been to the WF here multiple times and have only been to a TJ once in Dallas and that was just to look around to see what all the fuss is about. Is it the size mostly? Selection? Help a brotha out...

sucks for downtown, why do the 'Peakers get a the cool stuff (TJs, WF, anthro, etc etc etc)?


(just whining, I know this is overall good for OKC, and I will visit)

Pretty much the spot we thought all along. For those that have been to both, what are the main differences between TJ and WF? I have been to the WF here multiple times and have only been to a TJ once in Dallas and that was just to look around to see what all the fuss is about. Is it the size mostly? Selection? Help a brotha out...

Trader Joe's is pretty much the "upscale" version of Aldi. They sell a lot of unique things hard to find elsewhere especially in OKC, and their prices are really good. I'm a bit disappointed TJ here won't be able to sell alcohol (I don't think they have a 3.2 version of their beers), but I'll definitely shop there when they open. I think OKC could handle a few Trader Joe's locations.

sucks for downtown, why do the 'Peakers get a the cool stuff (TJs, WF, anthro, etc etc etc)?


(just whining, I know this is overall good for OKC, and I will visit)

Agreed...Seems to be an odd place with Whole Foods, Sprouts, Forward Foods so close. Just b/c a grocery was their doesn't mean another is needed. I haven't been but to one TJs, but they don't seem to bring much to the plate in that area that isn't already well represented. Why not downtown or very near downtown.

Trader Joe's is pretty much the "upscale" version of Aldi. They sell a lot of unique things hard to find elsewhere especially in OKC, and their prices are really good. I'm a bit disappointed TJ here won't be able to sell alcohol (I don't think they have a 3.2 version of their beers), but I'll definitely shop there when they open. I think OKC could handle a few Trader Joe's locations.
I've done a little digging and their beers (not sure if just some or all) are brewed by Unibrue. Now Unibrue is a pretty tasty Canadian brewery that makes some pretty quality and very high point beers.

Agreed...Seems to be an odd place with Whole Foods, Sprouts, Forward Foods so close. Just b/c a grocery was their doesn't mean another is needed. I haven't been but to one TJs, but they don't seem to bring much to the plate in that area that isn't already well represented. Why not downtown or very near downtown.

Forward Foods on Western closed down recently, but doesn't change the point that it is close to several other grocers much like it.

There will be multiple TJ's in OKC, I'm sure of that. For one thing, their stores are only about half the size of a Whole Foods, so they tend to have more locations in general.

As far as the difference, Trader Joe's is a very hard concept to describe and one that I was very slow to warm up to when I first moved to Cali. However, I go into a TJ's every week or two and have been into the new, huge, fabulous Whole Foods very nearby perhaps twice in ten years.

Here are the plusses and minuses I see in the two:

Trader Joe's
+ Great prices
+ Many items you can't find anywhere else
+ Do a great job of selecting unique and new items (I trust anything they stock will be good, and it's usually borderline amazing)
+ Fantastically friendly and helpful service
+ Decent selection of prepared foods
+ Lots of blogs and sites devoted to helping you determine great things to try
- Very different than most grocery stores and it can take a while to "get it"
- No deli, bakery or butcher. Has lots of items in those areas but none of it is prepared on site.
- Some of everything (like produce) but you'll still probably need a regular grocery store; no real household items or the like
- Smallish stores that are often crowded
- Because the allure is a bunch of little, unique, ever-changing items, there are tons of people standing in the aisles rummaging through every little jar and package

Whole Foods
+ Big organic selection
+ Emphasis on health food
+ Big deli and other areas where food is prepared
+ Bigger stores, tend to be less crowded
- Can be crazy expensive (which is not worth it to me)
- Not a complete replacement for a full grocery store

I see a Trader Joes as a nice complement to my current grocery mix. I generally buy all of my produce and meat at Sprouts. Dry good, juice, bread, etc at the NW Exp Buy for Less. I'm just not a Whole Foods guy.

I go to Costco for the big bulk items (pet food, some food and household stuff), Ralph's (Kroger) for general stuff and Trader Joe's for snacks, cheeses, wine and their specialty items.

Here are some of the things I love at TJ's:

Chili tortillas -- chunks of chili peppers
Frozen orange chicken
Frozen brown rice packets
Frozen gnochi
Tortilla chips -- huge bag, delicious and cheap
Several of their salsas and dips
All types of cheese -- great and cheap!
Specialty Thai and Indian simmer sauces
Some really interesting crackers and cookies
All types of seasonal items
Lots of great deserts

I've done a little digging and their beers (not sure if just some or all) are brewed by Unibrue. Now Unibrue is a pretty tasty Canadian brewery that makes some pretty quality and very high point beers.

Yeah their beers are awesome. Simpler Times Pilsner is my favorite. I drank it all the time when I lived in Charlotte. It seems to me they have some beers that are 4.0 ABV and below that could be sold here. How is it in Colorado?

sucks for downtown, why do the 'Peakers get a the cool stuff (TJs, WF, anthro, etc etc etc)?


(just whining, I know this is overall good for OKC, and I will visit)


Rooftops
Demographics