I prefer the wires for a number of reasons.

1) It is commonly available technology. It will make purchasing, construction, and maintenance easier and cheaper
2) It is proven technology. OKC doesn't have the resources or public will to go experimenting. OKC really does get one chance to get this right. Take it from someone who lives in a city with an elevated monorail - screw it up and rail is dead for 2 generations.
3) The wires provide a visual reference for visitors and riders.
4) The support poles help provide a vertical component to the street which helps define space and create outdoor rooms.
5) The pole and wire combo creates a visual sense of place.

I prefer the wires for a number of reasons.

1) It is commonly available technology. It will make purchasing, construction, and maintenance easier and cheaper
2) It is proven technology. OKC doesn't have the resources or public will to go experimenting. OKC really does get one chance to get this right. Take it from someone who lives in a city with an elevated monorail - screw it up and rail is dead for 2 generations.
3) The wires provide a visual reference for visitors and riders.
4) The support poles help provide a vertical component to the street which helps define space and create outdoor rooms.
5) The pole and wire combo creates a visual sense of place.

These are all excellent points.

Public transit is such a taboo subject in Oklahoma, anyway. If we want to expand the system later, we need to absolutely ensure this first phase starter system is an absolute success. Buying unproven technology provides a huge risk for a) the system going considerably over budget b) the technology not living up to real world demands and could create huge PR disasters for the system.

These are all excellent points.

Public transit is such a taboo subject in Oklahoma, anyway. If we want to expand the system later, we need to absolutely ensure this first phase starter system is an absolute success. Buying unproven technology provides a huge risk for a) the system going considerably over budget b) the technology not living up to real world demands and could create huge PR disasters for the system.

See DIA baggage handling system:

Denver Airport Baggage System Case Study ? Why Projects Fail (http://calleam.com/WTPF/?page_id=2086)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I vote for no overhead wires.

Building a streetcar system completely without wires is an idea straight out of fantasy land. It may be technically possible, but it would be terrible stewardship of the Maps 3 money.

has that been decided? I wasn't aware of that. Also, why do we have to legally get wires?

Read the article...

Here is an interesting take on wires that got bounced to us via twitter.

Alternative OKC: Street Ceiling: The Aesthetic of Overhead Cables (http://alternativeokc.blogspot.com/2014/07/street-ceiling-aesthetic-of-overhead.html?spref=tw)

I think overhead wires will really add to the urban feel downtown. I'm a big fan.

I prefer the wires for a number of reasons.

1) It is commonly available technology. It will make purchasing, construction, and maintenance easier and cheaper
2) It is proven technology. OKC doesn't have the resources or public will to go experimenting. OKC really does get one chance to get this right. Take it from someone who lives in a city with an elevated monorail - screw it up and rail is dead for 2 generations.
3) The wires provide a visual reference for visitors and riders.
4) The support poles help provide a vertical component to the street which helps define space and create outdoor rooms.
5) The pole and wire combo creates a visual sense of place.

I agree with all of these points.. we don't want to risk this investment on unproven technology that could basically ruin this whole project. and wires providing a visual refernce for visitors is one of the main pluses in my opinion. this is what creates that visual reference of public transportation that a bus system does not achieve.

Imagine if we had waited to buy cars until we had hovering cars like we were promised by sci-fi writers all those years ago.

I'll take wires any day. If we get wireless eventually (or hovering cars), great. But I don't want to wait indefinitely for the future.

I finally got this video put together of downtown Portland when I was on vacation two months ago. I specifically tried to get shots of their street car. 5:27 in the video but there are other shots.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4akDeIqHIxo

Thanks for posting Will. If I could offer one bit of amateur armchair video making. Instead of focusing in on the tops of buildings and then zooming out and down to the street, try doing it the other way around. You want to reward the viewer at the end of the 'trip' by revealing the detail at the end - the same way you would when walking up to a building in person - and the same way you saw it yourself for the first time. For example, at the 4:00 mark you start off by focusing in on some wind turbines at the top of the building, then zoom out and tilt down the building leaving the detail behind, and then pan to a street scene. Take that 24 second of video and run it backwards (pan, tilt up, zoom in) and I think you will find it much more appealing and a more natural progression for the viewer.

Also, since you are there with the camera anyhow - you should consider replicating some Rick Steves style stuff and create a YouTube channel or travel blog. 5 to 10 minutes of video and commentary ought to do it and you might be able to makes some coin.

PmHd7oDpoL8

Great vid. If you want to cut out the streetcar and light rail into a short film, we'd be glad to post it to Facebook to promote what a streetcar looks like gliding by.

I had thought about doing that but haven't had time. I'll do it soon.

Read the article...

State law and city charter prevents the city from hiring the same firm to design and build the system.

That is incredibly stupid, but whatever. More wires=more things to go wrong. Here in the 21st century, we're still building things that rely on wires to get us around... sigh.

That is silly. No wires = an untested concept. You seldom want to be the guy to beta test technology, and you definitely don't want to spend 130+ million dollars doing so.

That is incredibly stupid, but whatever. More wires=more things to go wrong. Here in the 21st century, we're still building things that rely on wires to get us around... sigh.

It is actually the other way around. The wire is the most reliable, which is why they are still be used,

Great vid. If you want to cut out the streetcar and light rail into a short film, we'd be glad to post it to Facebook to promote what a streetcar looks like gliding by.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR8sz52HR9w

Also, how well would a wireless battery system hold up in Oklahoma weather?

There is quite literally a 100 degree temperature change throughout the year. Lowest low and highest high. Along with a continuous battery discharge, and frequent charging. It seems to me to be a harsh environment for the voltage demand that would be placed on the batteries.

That is incredibly stupid, but whatever. More wires=more things to go wrong. Here in the 21st century, we're still building things that rely on wires to get us around... sigh.

Head full of bricks? The wired technology is proven, not "more things to go wrong." Get your facts straight.

Dallas Area Rapid Transit (D.A.R.T.) is the largest light rail operator in the United States, with 85 miles of track with a top speed of 65 miles per hour.


https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608024587427187563&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608000784721577595&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HR.69085104796&pid=15.1&P=0
Dallas has the overhead wire rapid transit.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5A_byGkhuM
Oklahoma City's street car system will begin with six miles of track.

http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

That is silly. No wires = an untested concept. You seldom want to be the guy to beta test technology, and you definitely don't want to spend 130+ million dollars doing so.I'm a single person going to school right now living with my father, of course I don't have 130 million lol....

Quite honestly, if I had billions, I'd love to donate that kind of money to help fund things in this city that I would never expect a return on. I'd have to be smart about it, but I'd rather spend money and invest rather than have it sit in a bank account. That isn't to say I don't believe in saving money, but have balance.

I thought there are cities that don't have any wires on their street cars??? I don't have any major beef with the wires and if people here say that's what they want, then fine. It's their, well, all our money, so as long as the majority and planners decide it's the best option, then so be it. It just seems no wires would be the option and to me, is more futuristic and advanced.

Head full of bricks? The wired technology is proven, not "more things to go wrong." Get your facts straight.I use common sense when I say more things can go wrong. Whenever something is exposed, there is more of chance it will be affected by outside elements and factors, how is that "head full of bricks" thinking?

I use common sense when I say more things can go wrong. Whenever something is exposed, there is more of chance it will be affected by outside elements and factors, how is that "head full of bricks" thinking?

plupan, the point is that common sense would tell you that a type of system that has been used all over the world in all types of weather conditions would, for now, be a more tested and reliable system.

It is actually the other way around. The wire is the most reliable, which is why they are still be used,Well, it takes bold thinking to venture and test concepts and new technology.

We can use your wonderful glow in the dark roads that you love. There are so many problems with them- people turning their headlights completely off in order to see the lights, the lights already fading and becoming dimmer, water causing the lights to loose their "glow" faster etc..... Now, do I think it was a bad idea? No. I applaud the Netherlands for their efforts and they will likely fix all of the bugs.

Oklahoma used to be an innovative state. I learned on here ODOT was the first to test the cable barrier system; was that a proven technology? No. But it worked, and it is great and used by every other state now. We came out with the first parking meter, something that people said was stupid for the state to use, now look at it.

It takes innovation and leadership, something I still believe in here. Just because other cities have it and it works, doesn't mean we can't try something new. It's only a matter of time before other cities switch to wireless systems and it will happen.

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/circulars/ec058/15_02_Swanson.pdf

I also seems that this technology isn't all that new either. If you guys want wires, fine, but it is not hard to see that you simply like the overhead wires better and have no real points to make for them besides that, which is completely fine. It isn't going to be a big deal either way.

plupan, the point is that common sense would tell you that a type of system that has been used all over the world in all types of weather conditions would, for now, be a more tested and reliable system.see my post below yours. It kind of responds to this...

see my post below yours. It kind of responds to this...

That is a totally different argument, plupan. Now you're talking about being innovative instead of being reliable. That was what I was responding to. And actually the cable barrier system was a very proven technology before we started using it. Europe had used that extensively before it was used here.

That is a totally different argument, plupan. Now you're talking about being innovative instead of being reliable. That was what I was responding to. And actually the cable barrier system was a very proven technology before we started using it. Europe had used that extensively before it was used here.I understand Europe has used it, but we were the first in the US. It was to be "tried" here and had to be authorized by the USDOT.

As far as being reliable, my point by that was, the wires are exposed. 9 times out of 10, when something is exposed, it is more vulnerable than that of something that is hidden and protected. That is what I meant as far as reliability issues go. In that particular instance, that is where it is reliable. As far as the technology working, it's a matter of building something that works by electrical induction. I am NOT an electrical engineer, so I don't know how far we are in that, but before something becomes mature, it has to be tested. For every test, you start out small, and eventually you try it large scale. Again, I am NOT an expert on this matter and there are people on this board(people who responded to this thread) who know more than me about this, but I will not accept the "it's not a proven technology" line from anyone, because to me, that signals one thing, potential.

So, I have a few of questions for anyone that would know this:

1. Do they have this technology(wireless streetcars) implemented on a large scale somewhere?

2.If they do, how is it going?

3.What are the problems, if there any?

My points(and I will address each point) against wires are (1) they make more clutter (2) there is more to go wrong (3) the future is going away from wires for pretty much everything, that would include street cars

1. You can show me all the pictures of Seattle and Portland you want to, but the wires are there and you can see them. While it may not be a big deal to some, I notice it and I promise you I'm not the only one.

2. There is more to go wrong: whether it be natural causes(weather mainly) or man-made(trucks that are too high hitting the wires, cars hitting the poles, people purposely causing trouble), it might be rare, but each one of those things will eventually happen, and it is something that can easily be avoided if they were simply placed below the tracks.

3. You can't sit there and tell me 100 years from now, we will still be using wires. I doubt any new street cars that are built 20 years from now will even have them. We are advancing faster than most think.

Just saw this from the streetcar's Facebook:


Mayor Mick Cornett and Steering Committee members just approved expansion plans for the OKC Streetcar to Capitol Hill, up Classen to 63rd street, and rapid streetcar to Tinker Air Force Base.
The plans enable the City of OKC and the future Regional Transit Authority to leverage local initiatives pursue Federal matching funds to grow the streetcar system that is about to be under construction.
We will post high quality maps when they become available.

:cool:

So, I have a few of questions for anyone that would know this:

1. Do they have this technology(wireless streetcars) implemented on a large scale somewhere?

2.If they do, how is it going?

3.What are the problems, if there any?

My points(and I will address each point) against wires are (1) they make more clutter (2) there is more to go wrong (3) the future is going away from wires for pretty much everything, that would include street cars

1. You can show me all the pictures of Seattle and Portland you want to, but the wires are there and you can see them. While it may not be a big deal to some, I notice it and I promise you I'm not the only one.

2. There is more to go wrong: whether it be natural causes(weather mainly) or man-made(trucks that are too high hitting the wires, cars hitting the poles, people purposely causing trouble), it might be rare, but each one of those things will eventually happen, and it is something that can easily be avoided if they were simply placed below the tracks.

3. You can't sit there and tell me 100 years from now, we will still be using wires. I doubt any new street cars that are built 20 years from now will even have them. We are advancing faster than most think.

1. Scroll down to page 5. You will notice almost all of the hybrid systems use wires for some of the charging. That is our plan. Over the next 10 years, batteries will become more efficient, most likely, and new technologies will be tested. We can take wires down as the technology improves.

http://www.kimley-horn.com/Projects/fasttrackfresnocounty/downloads/StreetCarInfo/streetcars%20technology3%20(2).pdf

2. See #1

3. See #1

Innovation is risky and expensive. We have a budget. We have to be good stewards of the taxpayers' money. We don't want a trendy little 1 km. streetcar that runs magically without wires. We want a system that can cover the area we have envisioned, at a price we can afford and with affordable infrastructure. Since we have a couplet system, there will be a single wire everywhere except where the couplet crosses itself. You won't see the bulky wires that cover a street that people are familiar with in San Francisco and Seattle. It will be noticeable if you're looking for it, but otherwise not.

My son is an engineer, and when I told him about the new streetcar technologies he said, "You never want to be the beta tester, especially for hundreds of millions of dollars." The mayor is talking today about massive expansion of the system. By the time that's ready to happen, we will have a lot more information about new technology, and we will have seen the hybrid system we will already have grow increasingly efficient.

Just saw this from the streetcar's Facebook:



:cool:

That's freakin AWESOME!

Sent from my BNTV600 using Tapatalk

This is huge!

Wow, all the way up to 63rd is ambitious. I suppose it's important to have the plans drawn up just in case the federal funds end up being generous.

And for Capital Hill, I wonder where the river is going to be crossed. Walker? Western? If the latter, that's a nice bonus for the Wheeler District.

Interesting that there was zero mention of the Health Science Center or the capital building complex.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Of course running the streetcar up to 63rd drops people right into Classen Curve, the Triangle and the Nichols Hills Plaza, which could be a huge draw for tourists and conventioneers, who want to stay downtown but then have very easy access to the shopping and restaurants of that area. Plans like these could also really spark the development of that shopping/restaurant complex. It would also enable people in that area to pop down to Thunder games and downtown events without having to worry about parking. A significant number of season ticket holders to the Thunder, the Symphony, the Ballet, Lyric, etc. live in the Nichols Hills area. And what a way to stimulate resurgence of the Capitol Hill area as well! Sounds like a win-win.

just saw this from the streetcar's facebook:



:cool:

Fantastic! I got the chilly willies thinking about it!

Going to 63rd doesn't excite me half as much as going to Capitol Hill.

Going to 63rd doesn't excite me half as much as going to Capitol Hill.

Going to 63rd excites me because it makes me think eventually the plan will be classen>63rd>may>reno. With what is already included in Phase 1, that would have the streetcar covering the entire part of OKC that I spend any time in.

The thing is the 63rd corridor is vital and growing as we speak. Capitol Hill has tremendous potential but hasn't taken off yet. Plus, a lot of people work at Chesapeake and the streetcar going to 63rd will allow them to live downtown and commute to work without driving if they want to. I think 63rd is a good choice and makes more economic sense (currently) than going to Capitol Hill. Luckily I don't think its going to have to be one or the other.

I saw this on facebook as well. this is great news. going up Classen to 63rd is awesome!. very close to the Plaza and uptown, asian district, Classen curve, nichols hills plaza.. this is a great expansion. Plus means a great deal to developing Capital hill.

Okay, now that I'm at a computer and double checked the Zeta route, I'm guessing Walker is far more likely for the connection to Capitol Hill.

On the other hand here's a total pie in the sky idea while I'm looking at the maps: go down Walker to 25th or 29th, west over to Western, back up to Sheridan, and east to hook back into the system. That would serve Wiley Post Park, Capitol Hill, Wheeler District, Wheeler Park, and Film Row. It's not quite a couplet route since the up and down would be a full mile separate, and double railing it would give that much more expense, but it's a fun thought experiment.

Edit: Whoops, make that a half mile between Walker and Western, I guessed that incorrectly while looking at Google Maps earlier.

Okay, now that I'm at a computer and double checked the Zeta route, I'm guessing Walker is far more likely for the connection to Capitol Hill.

On the other hand here's a total pie in the sky idea while I'm looking at the maps: go down Walker to 25th or 29th, west over to Western, back up to Sheridan, and east to hook back into the system. That would serve Wiley Post Park, Capitol Hill, Wheeler District, Wheeler Park, and Film Row. It's not quite a couplet route since the up and down would be a full mile separate, and double railing it would give that much more expense, but it's a fun thought experiment.

I had the same thought. To save money it could start as a one-way loop and with growth in ridership in the area you could eventually double track it.

Going to 63rd excites me because it makes me think eventually the plan will be classen>63rd>may>reno. With what is already included in Phase 1, that would have the streetcar covering the entire part of OKC that I spend any time in.

Other than your couplet of Classen and May being 2 miles apart, I like the way you think. Double tracking on both Classen and May, or even Penn, would be great. I like the idea of May, though, because you get coverage to Fair Park.

Other than your couplet of Classen and May being 2 miles apart, I like the way you think. Double tracking on both Classen and May, or even Penn, would be great. I like the idea of May, though, because you get coverage to Fair Park.

Well in my dream world there would eventually be a N/S line at Penn and E/W lines at 10th/23rd/36th/50th. :)

Wires vs. Wireless?


I thought there are cities that don't have any wires on their street cars??? I don't have any major beef with the wires and if people here say that's what they want, then fine. It's their, well, all our money, so as long as the majority and planners decide it's the best option, then so be it. It just seems no wires would be the option and to me, is more futuristic and advanced.

The wireless street cars are in the early stages being piloted in a number of cities. Agree with some posters that we want to go with a safe and proven system. The wires can be removed as we upgrade.

On the surface many of us would not like to see the overhead wires dangling. It's like the landline phones and telephone poles. The widespread use of cellphones draws parallel with technological advances; therefore it does give the appearance that wires aren't in sink with technology. The wires have been around for as long as I can remember; Dallas had many of its buses wired in the late fifties and early sixties.

We have $130 million (target budget) from MAPS III for the initial start up phase for the street car system. Agree 100%, we have got to get this right--a failed street car system could derail the MAPS momentum.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

This coming Wednesday afternoon, our committee will be reviewing the draft RFP language for the streetcar vehicles. We are pursuing a "hybrid" streetcar. It has been stressed that respondents to the RFP may score higher via their ability to commit to going farther (beyond the bridge underpasses in Bricktown) on batteries, super capacitors, and other onboard energy storage systems. But the yes, the primary "recharging" and powering mechanism will be the presence of a physical overhead wire along most portions of the route.

I am excited though. I suspect that we may end up with a "Tesla car" version of a streetcar. The risks associated with that being mitigated by simply putting up wire in the wireless sections should the end product not perform according to the manufacturer's commitments.

Having ridden the Kinkashryo "Ameritram" hybrid streetcar in Dallas during a test, I am very excited. Siemens has a hybrid on test in San Diego. One of our committee members has ridden on some of Bombardier's streetcars that have similar hybrid abilities. This is an exciting time technology wise. A great deal of it has to do with the advances in Litium Ion Battery technology and the computers that can operate the power management systems. Very cool stuff. I got to see the computer bank on the Kinkasharyo unit. It was first class.

Hybrid rail street cars?

https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608033868864882755&pid=15.1&P=0
Kinkashryo "Ameritram" hybrid streetcar, Dallas

https://sp1.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608026803648659685&pid=15.1&P=0
Austin, Texas

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608042832465498072&pid=15.1&P=0
Fort Worth, Texas

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608013691105446370&pid=15.1&P=0
Denver, Colorado

https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608015997504720819&pid=15.1&P=0
Edmonton, Alberta

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608030600397917666&pid=15.1&P=0
Granville Island - Vancouver, British Colombia

They are in the early phases, the hybrid (wireless) street cars and commuter rail in stages of progress in various cities. The bulk of the expense will more than likely be setting up the rail and maintenance facility. Anyone have knowledge about the potential life expectancy of these hybrids?
OKC Proposed Streetcar Routes, Meeting & Rail/Garage Conflit (http://myemail.constantcontact.com/OKC-Proposed-Streetcar-Routes--Meeting---Rail-Garage-Conflit.html?soid=1102681734415&aid=fwBtnVAwspQ)

Urban Pioneer are you at liberty to share your knowledge of this--the initial future plans beyond your previous post?

My understanding is that Oklahoma City has existing rail already in place from our street cars from the 30s. Could this be feasible to integrate into our future rail design?

There is very little of the original streetcar system tracks left and exposed. Maybe a 100' or so of track is actually visible while much more of it is buried beneath layers of asphalt.

There are tracks such as "The Adventure Line" going up through the NE side and the track going out to Tinker Air Force Base that could be reutilized at fairly minimal cost to provide rapid streetcar access to those areas. The wheel base on the streetcar that we are discussing are not dissimilar and streetcars can run on most of those tracks. We cannot easily cross active freight rail lines however. The reality is that doing so is very expensive (positive train control system) has to be added and we would be at the mercy of freight train schedules.

That is why some of the plans revealed the other day by our RTA committee and the study that the MAPS 3 committee undertook for the NE line involve going around and over freight alignments. Once you are past those freight obstacles, bridge rehabilitation is the next greatest expense. The right of way and rehabilitation of track enables rapid corridors to be cost effectively installed as telephone poles can be used to string up wire (not unlike the original Interurban trains) and there is little if no utility relocation costs.

Not sure if I answered your questions and thoughts.

I think the greatest streetcar opportunity within the city itself is the line up Classen to 63rd. Basically it sets up rapid streetcar service for NW Expressway. There are no freight alignments we can run parallel to or reclaim to the NW. NW Expressway is the ticket to reestablishing urbanity and pedestrian access over the greater part of the city.

Imagine Classen and NW expressway with sidewalks, crosswalks, trees, air conditioned stations in the median, and automated signalization.

That is the future.

Imagine Classen and NW expressway with sidewalks, crosswalks, trees, air conditioned stations in the median, and automated signalization.

For NW Exp, it's very difficult to imagine, but very welcome. How far behind is the airport/FAA to getting in on the action? I'll take BRT I'm not picky.

No clue how I missed this…This homeowner at 46th and Classen is in shock at seeing this news…


:dance: :dance: :dance:

Yeah, I'd hope the thought of extending up NW Expressway would get the May Avenue interchange to be redone.

Seriously…I can't say just how huge this is, especially if they can get it to run late into the night: 1, Sunday to Thursday, and 3:30 Friday/Saturday. It opens up so much economic potential for so many people in this part of the city who can't afford a car.

As I just said, I live on NW 46th. On the east side of Western, there is a 7-11. I can't tell you many people I've seen walk by my house headed toward 7-11 that cross Classen to get to their homes to the west.

I'm fairly certain that a notable percentage of people in this part of town don't own cars, or certainly don't own 1 car to every 1 person. This extends the options of families who would like to own just 1 vehicle instead of 2 to be able to live within a reasonable commute to two of the major employment centers in the city (63rd/Western and Downtown).

And as UP said, it gets us thinking about how to include greater NW OKC in the plans, which is really where reinvigorating the city is going to happen the most.

Don't miss how much this is going to alleviate the Bus system as well. Instead of having the 005/007/008/010 go from Northwest Mid-City (think Founders area) all the way downtown, they can have a connection at Classen and Expressway (or 63rd/Western) and increase frequency in and around the neighborhood. Same thing for 013/014/040.

As said by JTF, this is even a bigger deal for Capitol Hill and the south side. Reinvigorating Capitol Hill alongside Wheeler Park will give OKC so many options for a variety of lifestyles with a variety of populace. I think by 2030, we'll be able to look at just about everything from I-240 up to Memorial, from I-44 to I-235 (and even sometimes I-35) and say: We have a complete, well integrated, high quality city in the heart of the US.

Oklahoma City advisory panel advances technical specifications for MAPS 3 streetcar | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-advisory-panel-advances-technical-specifications-for-maps-3-streetcar/article/5058055)

Some important action on this in today's City Council meeting:


Oklahoma City will solicit bids from streetcar manufacturers as the city moves forward on building a $130 million system in downtown.

The council voted Tuesday to open the bidding process to purchase at least five modern streetcars that will primarily operate on an overhead wire system, but will have the ability to run wirelessly at times.

See City asks for bids on streetcars (http://okgazette.com/2014/08/26/blog-city-asks-for-bids-on-streetcars/) for more.

Some important action on this in today's City Council meeting:

Any idea how Ed voted on this?

Any idea how Ed voted on this?

Against. No idea why or if he had any qualifiers.

I believe the Council voted 5-4 to approve the purchase of the streetcars. The dissenters were dissatisfied that the traditional streetcar was being forced on us. The dissenters hoped we might have chosen a wireless streetcar system. We'd be the first in the nation (except for cable car cities), but that was countered with it was too much risk. I would argue we'd be much more likely get a lot of federal money if we did build an (induction) wireless streetcar system.

Over 5 years ago (just before Maps 3 passed), I wrote a web page on promoting wireless streetcars: What I advocate for MAPS 3 implementation (http://www.techok.org/) My wireless streetcar advocacy is in sections 9 through 11. If you click on the above link, there's a video of a demo system in Bordeaux, France.

I've always thought wired cantenary systems were UGLY.

I believe the Council voted 5-4 to approve the purchase of the streetcars. The dissenters were dissatisfied that the traditional streetcar was being forced on us. The dissenters hoped we might have chosen a wireless streetcar system. We'd be the first in the nation (except for cable car cities), but that was countered with it was too much risk. I would argue we'd be much more likely get a lot of federal money if we did build an (induction) wireless streetcar system.

Over 5 years ago (just before Maps 3 passed), I wrote a web page on promoting wireless streetcars: What I advocate for MAPS 3 implementation (http://www.techok.org/) My wireless streetcar advocacy is in sections 9 through 11. If you click on the above link, there's a video of a demo system in Bordeaux, France.

I've always thought wired cantenary systems were UGLY.

This is not what I've heard happened, at all.

This is not what I've heard happened, at all.

I watched the proceedings on City Channel 20. I'm not positive of the final vote, since I forgot to record it. But at least 2 councilmen voiced concern over the wired system and others were confused by the statements of city staff and the committee advocates of the cantenary based wired streetcars. I remember the "too much risk" statement being made. I think the wired streetcar committee advocates just want to push it forward. I was told that at least one streetcar committee member purchased property along the selected corridor. I'm sure the faster the streetcar system is built, the sooner his (or her) return-on-investment will be realized.

There's a link to the City Council video for Tuesday, August 26th, but the link goes to an essentially blank page. http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/meet.aspx . Maybe in the morning our city staff will fix the link and we all can review yesterday's city council meeting.

I watched the proceedings on City Channel 20. I'm not positive of the final vote, since I forgot to record it. But at least 2 councilmen voiced concern over the wired system and others were confused by the statements of city staff and the committee advocates of the cantenary based wired streetcars. I remember the "too much risk" statement being made. I think the wired streetcar committee advocates just want to push it forward. I was told that at least one streetcar committee member purchased property along the selected corridor. I'm sure the faster the streetcar system is built, the sooner his (or her) return-on-investment will be realized.

There's a link to the City Council video for Tuesday, August 26th, but the link goes to an essentially blank page. http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/meet.aspx . Maybe in the morning our city staff will fix the link and we all can review yesterday's city council meeting.

The streetcar RFP and whitewater facility contract were on the consent docket, which was approved unanimously. The 5-4 vote you are referring to concerned the whitewater park contract, which was discussed immediately after the streetcar item and before the vote on the consent docket. While there were questions concerning the streetcar and the wired system, they were fully explained and answered by the consultant and there was no opposition expressed. The opposition that occurred was during the following discussion on the whitewater park contract, when a couple of Councilmembers objected to the proposed option 1, at which point Council took a vote on option 1, which passed 5-4. Immediately following that vote, the consent docket, including the streetcar RFP was approved 9-0.

Start out with the cables. We can switch to a wireless system if the cable looks too antique. Let's just get a system started so we can take it from there.

When we expand the system with MAPS IV then hopefully a number of cities that have wireless will be able to give us feedback. Dallas is piloting their wireless system at this time.

“Our goal is to be 100 percent off-wire,” Rick Gustafson, an engineer with Jacobs Engineering Group Inc., told the streetcar subcommittee in April. “But it would be very risky for us to seek only a system that is 100 percent off-wire.”

Streetcar still on track | okgazette.com (http://okgazette.com/2014/07/08/streetcar-still-on-track/)

Oklahoma City Streetcar: Prepare for a Battle | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-streetcar-prepare-for-a-battle/article/3855641)

Wireless leads priorities list for MAPS 3 streetcar | News OK (http://newsok.com/wireless-leads-priorities-list-for-maps-3-streetcar/article/4746454)


Does anyone know anything about the 60 miles of track we once had? I was told that the tracks are still there; but paved over?


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif