Hoya ...this is most likely way above your head. Do you even know what the ACOG is? This is the group that is putting the "NEXT" thing together and you have no idea. This is already in motion.... This is already moving forward. This is already "the path" that will be taken.

Now Hoyo, when you (and the other couch potatoes) get UP to Speed, then you can ring back in on this one. You just sit back and watch the parade in your sweatpants.

American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists? No? Then why don't you "enlighten" me.

Wow. Way to win people to your point of view... :ohno:

Of Sound Mind, I do realize who the audience is. Some people you just have to "help them on the train & find their seat" for them.

A.C.O.G. Association of Central Oklahoma Goverments. IF there are any representatives from this group who would like to shed light on the direction of our regional rail service... ??? USR recommended that we "go with" commuter rail, correct?

With the way you repeat the same arguments and the same examples again and again, you come across as having very little sincerity and appear as if you are a person paid to push an agenda.

I must confess, not to be a *ss, but I've wondered about OKVision's sincerity too. Whether this is individual is a plant by the Shadid Campaign to subvert the conversation away from Ed's failures.

Maybe I'm the one who needs to break out the box of Reynold's. I keep waiting for "them" (Shadid's campaign of mystery guests and buses) to go beyond long time poster Krisb, to try to subvert the discussions we've been having about their attempts to subvert the MAPS 3 Streetcar and also try to claim some relevance or distraction in the regional rail projects Mayor Cornett is chairing.

No offense OKVision, but new posters who are adamant about specific things are often immediately suspect for one reason or another. Mine suspicion about new posters is directly related to Ed Shadid try to nullify conversations.

This is you, missing the joke. It's a Simpsons reference that you did not get. Because you are coming across exactly like the cartoon salesman above. With the way you repeat the same arguments and the same examples again and again, you come across as having very little sincerity and appear as if you are a person paid to push an agenda.

The issue with pushing immediately for light rail is that it is probably not politically feasible. It doesn't matter how "good" of a deal something may arguably be, if you do not have the ability to implement it or pay for it then it doesn't matter. Right now OKC has decided to take the very first steps to rail transit, with a streetcar that is as much about a cool thing downtown as it is about actual transport. You are now asking for a billion dollar investment to follow it up. This is like trying to sell a guy who bought some sweatpants and a workout video a lifetime gym membership for the low low cost of $5000. "You'll save so much money!" you say. Right now we haven't even got up off the couch.
Your suggestion is not politically feasible. But when people tell you that you ignore them and spout

the same arguments again and again. Therefore you are the cartoon salesman.

That's why I put him on ignore!

... This is like trying to sell a guy who bought some sweatpants and a workout video a lifetime gym membership for the low low cost of $5000. "You'll save so much money!" you say. Right now we haven't even got up off the couch.
...

Dang if that ain't dead center perfect.

I must confess, not to be a *ss, but I've wondered about OKVision's sincerity too. Whether this is individual is a plant by the Shadid Campaign to subvert the conversation away from Ed's failures.

Maybe I'm the one who needs to break out the box of Reynold's. I keep waiting for "them" (Shadid's campaign of mystery guests and buses) to go beyond long time poster Krisb, to try to subvert the discussions we've been having about their attempts to subvert the MAPS 3 Streetcar and also try to claim some relevance or distraction in the regional rail projects Mayor Cornett is chairing.

No offense OKVision, but new posters who are adamant about specific things are often immediately suspect for one reason or another. Mine suspicion about new posters is directly related to Ed Shadid try to nullify conversations.

No offense taken. I'm all in for Mr. Cornett. That is someone else's issue to run w/. I don't want him to change a thing w/ the momentum we have going.

Yes, Mr. Cornett is chairing this ( and he is doing a fine job). I just know how committee's get on a path ( commuter rail ) and never look at anything else objectively.

Everyone, please just put OKVision4U on ignore. If people stop responding to him, he will stop posting. JTF, this is directed at you, for the sake of all of us...

Glad you cleared that up OK Vision.

Regarding the committee, ACOG has hired URS to do the "commuter corridors study" which actually has not made any recommendations as to the actual mode(s) yet. The Fixed Guideway Study is what called for commuter rail and is the study which propagated this further analysis. So OKVision4U, you actually do still have time to have your input considered on an official level.

Sadly, the airport is not being considered in these various studies for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Glad you cleared that up OK Vision.

Regarding the committee, ACOG has hired URS to do the "commuter corridors study" which actually has not made any recommendations as to the actual mode(s) yet. The Fixed Guideway Study is what called for commuter rail and is the study which propagated this further analysis. So OKVision4U, you actually do still have time to have your input considered on an official level.

Sadly, the airport is not being considered in these various studies for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Thank you for the valuable input on the study(s). This exactly what I was hoping to hear regarding the URS & their recommendation(s) statement. Urban Pioneer, how many Mode(s) are currently on the table?

Glad you cleared that up OK Vision.

Regarding the committee, ACOG has hired URS to do the "commuter corridors study" which actually has not made any recommendations as to the actual mode(s) yet. The Fixed Guideway Study is what called for commuter rail and is the study which propagated this further analysis. So OKVision4U, you actually do still have time to have your input considered on an official level.

Sadly, the airport is not being considered in these various studies for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Urban Pioneer, please advise. Is the Airport NOT of consideration because of the Railway issue(s)? ...yet the Airport is one of the prime destination point(s) for Visitors as well as Residents.

I have no clue why the airport would not be considered as a commuter route option. That line is the Stillwater Central line which is leased by them and BNSF via the state. Traffic volume on it is not in dire straights. I think, if anything, that a commuter line to the airport via downtown would be essential, especially if you have connecting trains coming from the Edmond-OKC-Norman spine.

I have no clue why the airport would not be considered as a commuter route option. That line is the Stillwater Central line which is leased by them and BNSF via the state. Traffic volume on it is not in dire straights. I think, if anything, that a commuter line to the airport via downtown would be essential, especially if you have connecting trains coming from the Edmond-OKC-Norman spine.

Agree completely. My map that I put out has the airport stop there right at Meridian and 152...make no sense why you wouldn't do that. Unless the city is afraid they are going to lose parking lot revenue. :-P

wait...did someone on the last page try and use Houston's existing light rail "system" as a good example? ha!

Yeah, the DFW area is almost twice as big as the entire population Oklahoma.


...ok. wow. nevermind.

I hope you are not indicating you didn't know this.

No offense taken. I'm all in for Mr. Cornett. That is someone else's issue to run w/. I don't want him to change a thing w/ the momentum we have going.

Yes, Mr. Cornett is chairing this ( and he is doing a fine job). I just know how committee's get on a path ( commuter rail ) and never look at anything else objectively.

You are about 8 years late. Ever hear of the Fixed Guideway Study? Ever read it? That is the basic framework transit advocates, ACOG and OKC has been working with.

For those of you sending e-mails to Greiner, please let us know if/how he responds and what he says.

Being from Ward 2, I don't think it's probably worth my time to draft a letter to my councilman about my displeasure with his vote...

I just wanted to let you know that I finally got a response to my email to Greiner. For what it's worth:


Thank you for your input about the streetcar route.

James

According to Steve, a possible delay in the eminent domain proceedings for the train depot:

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3888799?embargo=1


Joseph Bocock, attorney for Brewer Entertainment, did not return calls Tuesday to The Oklahoman. But in his court challenge, he argued the city could not show it intends to use the depot to facilitate “intermodal transportation,” which is defined as “the movement of people involving more than one mode of transportation during a single, seamless journey.”


Jane Abraham, the city's community and government affairs manager, said she is uncertain whether the court challenge will impact the grant proceeding.

“We're proceeding forward with all of our plans and assuming this will be resolved,” Abraham said. “We knew this might be a potential issue.”

We're proceeding forward with all of our plans and assuming this will be resolved.”

I just wanted to let you know that I finally got a response to my email to Greiner. For what it's worth:

Lol what a joke he is.

According to Steve, a possible delay in the eminent domain proceedings for the train depot:

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3888799?embargo=1

You could ride the streetcar from your apartment in Midtown and get on Amtrak to travel to Fort Worth. That's one seamless journey. You could travel to OKC on Amtrak and ride the streetcar to your hotel. That's another. I'm thinking the "It isn't fair. I'm only getting a thousand percent return on my investment." might be a better argument.

Can someone with an Oklahoman login post the name of the case, the court, and the case number? I'd like to read the pleadings, but I don't know the procedural history. I assume it's in the Western District of Oklahoma, but I don't know for sure.

Can someone with an Oklahoman login post the name of the case, the court, and the case number? I'd like to read the pleadings, but I don't know the procedural history. I assume it's in the Western District of Oklahoma, but I don't know for sure.

cv-2013-1083

cv-2013-1083

Thank you, Steve. I owe you a beverage should we ever meet.

Looks like their exceptions are not yet scanned in on OSCN. Oh well. On what little knowledge I have, this is their only shot. I think a constitutional takings challenge would swiftly be dismissed.

Which hub location came in 2nd place in the study? Maybe it is time to move on to Plan B.

You are about 8 years late. Ever hear of the Fixed Guideway Study? Ever read it? That is the basic framework transit advocates, ACOG and OKC has been working with.

Yes I have CD, ...and tell me please what the Carter - Burgess Table 4.1, Technology Ratings state? ...LRT / CRL total score ? ...and please tell me what the Service Score is for LRT / CRT ? (this would be that big thing called Ridership)

From the gazette:

Railing cry

A contentious debate erupts around the approval of downtown’s new streetcar system.

Tim Farley
October 2nd, 2013

Plans for the MAPS 3 streetcar project will now move forward after a close 5-3 vote and approval, but scars from the Sept. 24 Oklahoma City Council meeting remain.

A debate on the project’s route was filled with emotionally charged and often contentious remarks by citizens, community volunteers and elected officials. Almost two dozen citizens spoke against and in favor of the proposal during a 2-plus-hour discussion of the most controversial MAPS 3 project.

After the public comments ended, Mayor Mick Cornett and Councilmen Larry McAtee, David Greenwell, Patrick Ryan and John Pettis, Jr., endorsed the plan. Councilmen James Greiner, Ed Shadid and Pete White voted against the proposal, but all three vowed to help create a top-notch system since the measure passed.

Ward 6 Councilwoman Meg Salyer excused herself from the discussion and vote because she owns property along the route.

Public input
Prior to the vote, council members listened to a plethora of heated public comments — for and against — including some from Patricia Black, who called the streetcar project “Mickey Mouse.” She also suggested the construction of the streetcar tracks will damage the downtown streets that were repaved as part of the $140 million Project 180 renovation project.

Rev. Jesse Jackson, pastor of East Sixth Street Christian Church, 1139 NE Sixth St., favored a route that would take the streetcar to the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center and surrounding area instead of areas already served by other means of public and private transportation.

“Economic development already has occurred along the existing route. You need to connect to the health sciences center for the greatest amount of economic development,” he said. “You ought to start with northeast Oklahoma City and connect all those thousands and thousands of people.”

The 4.5-mile route approved by the council will connect the downtown OKC transit center, Automobile Alley, Midtown, Bricktown, the future MAPS convention center and the future intermodal transit hub at the Santa Fe railroad station. The route also will come within a block of the 70-acre MAPS 3 Downtown Public Park.

Garland Pruitt, a resident of east OKC, said a route to the health sciences center would benefit more people.

“Routes can be changed, and at this time, it would be hasty” to approve the recommended route, he said. “We didn’t have a rail system prior to this, so what’s the hurry? We need to expand that route to the medical center. It’s the right decision.”

City officials pointed out the route includes a possible future expansion near the OU Medical Center campus.

Peter Robertson, who lives at 1104 NE Fifth Street, called the recommended route “a plan going nowhere.”

OKC attorney and lifelong resident Elaine Schuster said the route was “poorly planned and poorly designed for the future of Oklahoma City. When you’re serving just this little area, you’re not serving that many people.”

Meanwhile, southwest OKC resident Nancy Anderson said she doesn’t believe the project can stay within the allotted budget. Jacobs Engineering consultants estimate phase 1 project costs between $99 million and $109 million. An extra $2.5 million to $3 million would be spent on annual operating and maintenance costs. At this point, city officials have not determined how they will pay for the operating and maintenance costs.

“We are getting no financial help from those along the route, and there’s no reason to expect large federal grants that other cities have,” Anderson said.

However, Cathy O’Connor, president of the Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, said route property owners have expressed interest in helping pay for the operational costs through a special assessment fee.

“Do they want to pay for all the maintenance? No,” she said.

O’Connor began meeting with property owners this summer, but it was after the streetcar subcommittee and the MAPS 3 Oversight Board already approved the recommended route.

“Aren’t we like the teenager who mows the yard and then asks to be paid?” Shadid asked. “Why would anyone want to pay now? They know where the route is going. This should have been done months ago.”

Meanwhile, other citizens, like developer and businessman Steve Mason, support the route.

Mason acknowledged he owns property and businesses along Broadway Avenue, which will serve as the route’s east boundary.

“I believe the public supports this project,” he said. “Should it be a place maker or a place server? It does both.”

David Dickerson, a north OKC resident, said he doesn’t expect the streetcar will come “to [his] front door, but you have to start somewhere.”

Nathaniel Harding, chairman of the streetcar subcommittee, said the public debate “was worth it to make the city an exciting place to live.” Harding believes the streetcar will create a “paradigm shift” in the way OKC residents “move around the city.”

Flare-up
As part of the discussion, streetcar subcommittee member Jeff Bezdek (pictured) told the council that more than 104 meetings were held in the last three years, leading to “unprecedented public input,” and much of the criticism leveled at the project was unwarranted.

Later, White made pointed comments about Bezdek’s public participation claim.

“That’s an exaggeration,” the Ward 4 councilman said.

“The last two meetings I attended were terrible, and there were questions that were not answered. They were so narrowly focused, and the public didn’t have a chance to speak. The process wasn’t open.”

Shadid, known for his public criticism of the $128 million modern streetcar project, became embroiled in an argument with Bezdek over allegations that the subcommittee member tried to manipulate the consultant selection process in 2010.

As a result, a city auditor questioned Bezdek at the time but found no wrongdoing.

“I went through a period of extreme uncomfortableness while being questioned,” he said.

Speaking directly to Shadid, Bezdek said, “Since you made this personal, you have said so many things that are not correct or held up by the facts. You have railed against the subcommittee and the process, and you have tried to sabotage a majority-approved vote.”

Mayor’s reaction
Cornett, seeking his fourth term as mayor, was brief with his comments about the contentious meeting.

“There’s a mayor’s race going on. That’s the short answer,” he said, referring to Shadid’s own candidacy. “The two highest profile days with a streetcar system is the day you fund it, which was on election day, and the day you route it.”

Setting the mayor’s election aside, Cornett wasn’t surprised by the negative reaction to the recommended route.

“There is no such thing as a criticism-free route,” he said.

“If you actually travel the route, there’s still a lot of land to be developed. I’m satisfied the subcommittee, the oversight board and the consultants all did their due diligence, and I have no problem with the route. But even if you had gone with the health sciences route, you’d have received criticism.”

Future plans
With the council’s approval in place, plans call for the consultants to fine-tune the route with modifications to the Midtown connection. In addition, the consultants will recommend whether to double-track Broadway Avenue or form a couplet with Robinson Avenue.

Consultants from Jacobs Engineering also will make recommendations in connection with the streetcar propulsion system, the storage and maintenance facility location, rail and streetcar purchases and development of a route economic development plan.

The streetcar system is expected to begin operations in 2017.

Oklahoma Gazette News: MAPS (http://okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-19403-railing-cry.html)

Yes I have CD, ...and tell me please what the Carter - Burgess Table 4.1, Technology Ratings state? ...LRT / CRL total score ? ...and please tell me what the Service Score is for LRT / CRT ? (this would be that big thing called Ridership)

OK - just checking and making sure we all understand the background of transit restoration in Central OK. You really know how to win friends and influence others....the maglev thing has about zero chance of being financially viable. Therefore most people will not waste time and scarce resources going down a rat hole. It is an interesting technology and may one day become common, but it is far better to utilize proven, reliable technology when you are rebuilding a transit network from nothing. The system needs to be reliable and cost effective for riders and the people that will fund it. Commuter rail is the obvious solution for serving the suburbs for several reasons that have already been discussed.

Your proposal smells a lot like ODOT's endless studies of establishing a passenger rail link between OKC and Tulsa. They are focusing solely on high speed rail and ignoring the obvious cost effective solution. Therefore nothing has been accomplished in about a decade. Pie in the sky does not yield results. The only results that matter are mass transit vehicles moving people efficiently throughout central Oklahoma. Practical transit advocates understand that feasibility trumps appreciation of the latest technology at this stage of transit redevelopment.

how does SW OKC = Tuttle?

how does SW OKC = Tuttle?

But I thought Tuttle residents had a say in our OKC streetcar system at council???

I had never even heard of Tuttle until the council meeting.

How does this fit into the grand scheme of things? if this doesn't apply here and goes in a more appropriate location, please move...

University of Oklahoma to lead transportation center, gets $2.6 million grant | News OK (http://newsok.com/university-of-oklahoma-to-lead-transportation-center-gets-2.6-million-grant/article/3888820)

The University of Oklahoma will lead a regional transportation effort funded by at $2.6 million U.S. Transportation Department grant, the university said Tuesday. ...

I had never even heard of Tuttle until the council meeting.


Nevah heard of Tuttle? Nevah evah? Why, I thought every man and woman alive knew of Tuttle, America .... well, those who drink wine anyway.


Raise your glass high to Tuttle, America - long time home of the Hiney Winery.

How does this fit into the grand scheme of things? if this doesn't apply here and goes in a more appropriate location, please move...

University of Oklahoma to lead transportation center, gets $2.6 million grant | News OK (http://newsok.com/university-of-oklahoma-to-lead-transportation-center-gets-2.6-million-grant/article/3888820)

I noticed in the article that they "will address the most challenging issues of both the Federal Highway Administration and State Transportation Agencies". I hope they are aware that transportation takes place OFF the highways, as well.

It appears to fall under the engineering department so don't get your hopes up.

Nevah heard of Tuttle? Nevah evah? Why, I thought every man and woman alive knew of Tuttle, America .... well, those who drink wine anyway.


Raise your glass high to Tuttle, America - long time home of the Hiney Winery.

I'm an OSU fan and I even know that's where Jason White hails from!

OK - just checking and making sure we all understand the background of transit restoration in Central OK. You really know how to win friends and influence others....the maglev thing has about zero chance of being financially viable. Therefore most people will not waste time and scarce resources going down a rat hole. It is an interesting technology and may one day become common, but it is far better to utilize proven, reliable technology when you are rebuilding a transit network from nothing. The system needs to be reliable and cost effective for riders and the people that will fund it. Commuter rail is the obvious solution for serving the suburbs for several reasons that have already been discussed.

Your proposal smells a lot like ODOT's endless studies of establishing a passenger rail link between OKC and Tulsa. They are focusing solely on high speed rail and ignoring the obvious cost effective solution. Therefore nothing has been accomplished in about a decade. Pie in the sky does not yield results. The only results that matter are mass transit vehicles moving people efficiently throughout central Oklahoma. Practical transit advocates understand that feasibility trumps appreciation of the latest technology at this stage of transit redevelopment.

I'm gonna take that as a "no" you have no clue to what I am asking.

A Regional Light Rail ( Central OKC Metro ) is exactly what I am advocating. The rail link to Tulsa, no I'm not in that group. But since you raised "feasibility", then please refer back to the question CD.... Carter - Burgess 4.1 , Technology Ratings... ? Please educate yourself before you make a claim that LRT is ( less feasible ) than CRT. I think you will find that Carter - Burgess have a differing opinion.

I'm gonna take that as a "no" you have no clue to what I am asking.

A Regional Light Rail ( Central OKC Metro ) is exactly what I am advocating. The rail link to Tulsa, no I'm not in that group. But since you raised "feasibility", then please refer back to the question CD.... Carter - Burgess 4.1 , Technology Ratings... ? Please educate yourself before you make a claim that LRT is ( less feasible ) than CRT. I think you will find that Carter - Burgess have a differing opinion.

Speaking of educating oneself - you may want to compare the cost of right way acquisition for LRT vs the existing rights of way for commuter rail, compare electrification vs diesel electric with our existing infrastructure, and check to see if ODOT has ever done a single thing that would lead anyone to believe they would give up any space in a highway right of way for anything other than another lane of highway. Commuter rail could be up and running within one year's time.

This is what OKVision is talking about. See chapter 4.

http://www.gometro.org/Websites/gometro/Images/Reports_Studies/FGS/FGS_Chapter%204.pdf

I think I see where the problem is now. Some are operating the assumption that one type of rail transit will serve all of OKC. That isn't the case.

If you are going to read Chapter 4 you have to also read chapter 6.

The score from Carter Burgess is : LRT 38 / CRT 33 . The score of Cost Effectiveness is: LRT 3 / CRT 3 . This studay states for CRT : "although the upfront cost is lower, the operational cost ( that means on-going cost that continues to take more money each year to operate).

So let's not just assume the cost is ( way out of line ) for a Light Rail.

The score from Carter Burgess is : LRT 38 / CRT 33 . The score of Cost Effectiveness is: LRT 3 / CRT 3 . This studay states for CRT : "although the upfront cost is lower, the operational cost ( that means on-going cost that continues to take more money each year to operate).

So let's not just assume the cost is ( way out of line ) for a Light Rail.

CRT operational cost is much, much higher than LRT. (sorry for the edit).

Speaking of educating oneself - you may want to compare the cost of right way acquisition for LRT vs the existing rights of way for commuter rail, compare electrification vs diesel electric with our existing infrastructure, and check to see if ODOT has ever done a single thing that would lead anyone to believe they would give up any space in a highway right of way for anything other than another lane of highway. Commuter rail could be up and running within one year's time.

One year? ...Really? And what HUB are we going to run that out of? The ACOG states we will have this UP-N-Running in 10 + years. I know I'm ready.

One year? ...Really? And what HUB are we going to run that out of? The ACOG states we will have this UP-N-Running in 10 + years. I know I'm ready.

The city is very close to owning the Santa Fe Station which will serve as the centerpiece hub for a regional transit system.

Speaking of educating oneself - you may want to compare the cost of right way acquisition for LRT vs the existing rights of way for commuter rail, compare electrification vs diesel electric with our existing infrastructure, and check to see if ODOT has ever done a single thing that would lead anyone to believe they would give up any space in a highway right of way for anything other than another lane of highway. Commuter rail could be up and running within one year's time.

CorpDon ...Are you still sitting on that statement "Commuter Rail could be up and running within one year's time" ??? Please provide a few details on the HOW part.

CorpDon ...Are you still sitting on that statement "Commuter Rail could be up and running within one year's time" ??? Please provide a few details on the HOW part.

I doubt this to be true. First you have to get permission to use Right of Way from BNSF, which may already be in the works, and then you have to double the tracks on their line. Not to mention the steel girder bridge that goes over I-235 at 50th St. That needs to be lengthened for the widening of 235 and widened for double tracking as well as the other bridge that goes over I-44. Seeing as how long it took to build the new rail bridge over the current I-40 alignment, this will not be up and operating within a year or just over a year on the Edmond/OKC/Norman spine.

Even out to MWC/Tinker, you would have to seriously spruce up that line with new ties and track.

I've never seen commuter trains running on old wooden ties that look like they're about to fall apart and rusted track/jointed wobbly looking line.

Oklahoma City faces challenge on eminent domain purchase of train depot | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-faces-challenge-on-eminent-domain-purchase-of-train-depot/article/3888799)

CorpDon ...Are you still sitting on that statement "Commuter Rail could be up and running within one year's time" ??? Please provide a few details on the HOW part.

Who has the time like this guy does to sit around and watch OKCTalk all day to call out a guy less than one hour after his original call out post because he didn't reply fast enough for his desires?

Posting here is a hobby for most, not their damned jobs.

This is turning into a thread jack. Can we move toward a hide rate system like Daikykos? It's getting ridiculous.

This is turning into a thread jack. Can we move toward a hide rate system like Daikykos? It's getting ridiculous.

Agreed. All of this discussion needs to be moved to the light rail thread.

The problem is that we have a catch-all thread for our streetcar project.

We should have separate threads for streetcar route debate, the couplet issue (for Kerry), the bus vs rail debate, engineering and construction, etc.

But this being OKC Talk, we have one 216-page thread and then people complain about thread jacks.

Yeah...this is the Streetcar and Commuter Transit thread. Might be wise to delete out Commuter Transit part and then upgrade the the light rail thread to be Light Rail/Commuter Rail thread so the talk can be diverted there.

Who has the time like this guy does to sit around and watch OKCTalk all day to call out a guy less than one hour after his original call out post because he didn't reply fast enough for his desires?

Posting here is a hobby for most, not their damned jobs.

Pahdz ... If someone has some insight to getting the commuter rail "up and running" in a year's time, we should all need to be enlightened. This would be of "great value" to the ACOG. The ACOG is being told that it will take 10 years to get a commuter line going.

Now Pahdz, do you (or anyone else), have any idea of how it can be done in a years time? This is a forum for ideas ( this is a Transit Conversation ) so please share some regarding transit?

Since this is the streetcar thread, I have to ask (and maybe UP can shed some light on this) what kind of time frame and inconvenience are we talking about to lay the tracks for the street car? A month per mile depending on utilities? Three months? Obviously a lot of the utilities have been moved already so on those streets (I would think) it wouldn't take as long and they are only taking up one side of the street so traffic could still flow through.

Since this is the streetcar thread, I have to ask (and maybe UP can shed some light on this) what kind of time frame and inconvenience are we talking about to lay the tracks for the street car? A month per mile depending on utilities? Three months? Obviously a lot of the utilities have been moved already so on those streets (I would think) it wouldn't take as long and they are only taking up one side of the street so traffic could still flow through.

the time frame if i remember correctly .. is 1 block at a time and 1+ week per block ..

Pahdz ... If someone has some insight to getting the commuter rail "up and running" in a year's time, we should all need to be enlightened. This would be of "great value" to the ACOG. The ACOG is being told that it will take 10 years to get a commuter line going.

Now Pahdz, do you (or anyone else), have any idea of how it can be done in a years time? This is a forum for ideas ( this is a Transit Conversation ) so please share some regarding transit?

It can't be one in one year, but I'm not trying to engage you. I'm just wondering why you're so abrasive towards others.

I believe that in Portland it's three weeks per three blocks at a time. Importantly, at any one time they are directly communicating about specific construction plans and progress with all property owners on that three blocks as well as the three blocks ahead and behind.

It can't be one in one year, but I'm not trying to engage you. I'm just wondering why you're so abrasive towards others.

krisb needs a rest.

the time frame if i remember correctly .. is 1 block at a time and 1+ week per block ..

How far down will they go to put these rails? Meaning, is there any way they will come across utilities that have to be redirected on areas not affected by project 180?

Current construction techniques allow them to go only as low as 14". Certainly 2' would be realistic to lay the trackwork. However, depending on the nature of the utility (what's the pipe made of) or the alignment (longitudinal or transverse) and the need for access (say to a vault), they may need relocate anything down as far as 6'. But there are techniques that can reduce this threshold (e.g., insulating materials to mitigate stray current). Also, if the streetcar is wireless in some areas that could eliminate the stray current issue and minimize the need to go deeper than the trackwork.

Current construction techniques allow them to go only as low as 14". Certainly 2' would be realistic to lay the trackwork. However, depending on the nature of the utility (what's the pipe made of) or the alignment (longitudinal or transverse) and the need for access (say to a vault), they may need relocate anything down as far as 6'. But there are techniques that can reduce this threshold (e.g., insulating materials to mitigate stray current). Also, if the streetcar is wireless in some areas that could eliminate the stray current issue and minimize the need to go deeper than the trackwork.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. So if there are no delays, the entire track should be layed in a little over a year? Obviously, the Santa Fe Train Station remodel and updating will take a little while as well as the addition to the north. If all that is the case, 2017 looks a lot more realistic than I originally thought.

It can't be one in one year, but I'm not trying to engage you. I'm just wondering why you're so abrasive towards others.

Pahdz , I support my positions w/ facts & examples of why things "could work / should work / will work" and not all agree. Your last post to me was considered abrasive & (good humor for others), but you will find that doesn't "get me going", I'm not that weak.

Now Pahdz, do you even know what I was referring to re: CRT up & running in 1 year? The reality is this, if we all agreed and started today, it would take a min. of 5-7 years before the "switch" is turned on.

Now Pahdz, do you even know what I was referring to re: CRT up & running in 1 year? The reality is this, if we all agreed and started today, it would take a min. of 5-7 years before the "switch" is turned on.

Yes, and I agreed with you. I've lived in two cities (Houston and Phoenix) where it has absolutely taken longer than 1 year to get this done (even though Houston's example is not commuter rail, but more a toy train through a portion of the city). Why do you question that I don't know what you're talking about? I'm not a transit guru nor do I take the interest some others here do, I can just offer what I've seen with my own eyes in other metropolitan areas.