Urban, thanks for the excellent info. All sounds reasonable. Now if only the City and the Project 180 folks are listening? But given recent news reports they seem to be oblivious.

Why has MAPS 3 been seen as operating in some sort of vacuum? There should have been alternative plans for Project 180 from the beginning (if MAPS 3 passed or not) as soon as MAPS 3 passed (Plan "A"), then you proceed ahead with it. Now since there doesn't appear to have been much planning if any with MAPS 3 the taxpayers are going to be paying the price. Both in money and delays. Remember Project 180 is all borrowed money (borrowed once from Devon in a pre-project deal and from my understanding of the TIF financing method, will be paid back with more borrowed money from the TIF after the Devon tower is completed). Will the 1st round of borrowed money be paid for before we rip up the streets again to put in the Streetcars?

Not borrowed money, Devon self-imposed the TIF on themselves and decided to go a step further and pre-pay. Less the City is going to sell bonds or something up front to get the ball rolling a DECADE early, but the interest rate is at a very small rate. Even considering, we're still getting a free gift from Devon netting 100+ million in improvments before the interest payback. Not to mention, we'll reap greater returns at an earlier and faster rate than we would have otherwise. It's a no brainer.

I agree it would make more sense to coincide the two projects, but bureaucracy takes too long. Heck, installing the downtown bike racks on public easements took over a year of research, easements, utility easements, property owner permissions, etc. etc. I couldn't imagine all the headache of getting everything legal, utility relocation AND finishing studies for something like a streetcar.

Who is this Raoul guy? Seriously, does he not pay attention to the negative attention that the trolleys in downtown currently draw? It's like a merry go round with these guys...

I, too, think it's crazy to redo all these streets in project 180 and then tear portions up again to lay tracks down in the future but it's going to have to be done one way or the other. I agree with what I read the other day somewhere else...relocate the infrastructure much deeper during Project 180 in the hopes that all you'll have to do is remove the portions of the street to lay tracks down later.

Where would these tracks run in the street? Middle? Edge? I say edge, therefore taking away street parking and one of OKC's most famous inventions--the parking meter.

I think Raoul Caribelli is a fake name. Could it really be Cathy O'Connor writing under pseudonym?

LOL

Not borrowed money, Devon self-imposed the TIF on themselves and decided to go a step further and pre-pay. Less the City is going to sell bonds or something up front to get the ball rolling a DECADE early, but the interest rate is at a very small rate. ...

If I understand your post correctly you are saying that Devon pre-paid their taxes??

I admit my grasp on the whole TIF financing has been fuzzy to say the least, but this article by Steve cleared things up for me and it sure made it sound like it is borrowed money to me...not just once but twice...

NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/devon-tenders-95m-to-oklahoma-city/article/3403554?custom_click=pod_headline_business)


Devon tenders $95M to Oklahoma City
Loan will help pay for improvements near proposed tower before its completion

Devon Energy Corp. is extending a $95 million line of credit to Oklahoma City to expedite completion of an ambitious downtown makeover project being launched in conjunction with construction of a new corporate headquarters.
...
Typically, such improvements would be paid for with a revenue bond or a line of credit backed by improvements within the tax increment district.
...
The terms of the deal call for a 5 percent interest rate... City officials estimate the interest to be paid will range between $17.5 million and $18.5 million...

Thats all the 1st time the money is borrowed. To pay that money back, the regular TIF comes into play and the money is borrowed the 2nd time...


“...that either would be paid off over the increment district’s 25-year lifespan...”

From the More Info blurb in the article:

What is a TIF?
A tax increment finance district, also known as a TIF, allows a city, town or county to use tax money generated by a new development to pay for public improvements in the development area. Improvements associated with redevelopment projects can be supported by bonds, with the debt to be repaid by money generated within the TIF district. The TIF for the new Devon tower will last for 25 years and projects will be paid through a line of credit and short-term bond financing."

Amounts in the above article have probably increased since the Project 180 is @ $140M now??

Larry - I think the $95 million line of credit in your first quote is the same as the bolded loan in your second quote. One is talking about Devon specifically and the other is talking about TIF districts in general.

For example.

I took out a loan to buy my house. Most people who buy a home take out a loan.

See, just one loan.

Larry - I think the $95 million line of credit in your first quote is the same as the bolded loan in your second quote. One is talking about Devon specifically and the other is talking about TIF districts in general.

For example.

I took out a loan to buy my house. Most people who buy a home take out a loan.

See, just one loan.

Maybe you are right but that isn't the way I am reading it (maybe Steve can clarify since it was his article).

What did ULI have to say about the future downtown Okc streetcars?

What did ULI have to say about the future downtown Okc streetcars?

"There is a vast industry that will tell you build a streetcar and the buildings will follow it. It's more complicated...it's less clear if streetcars really spur development." - Ross Tilghman

"There is a vast industry that will tell you build a streetcar and the buildings will follow it. It's more complicated...it's less clear if streetcars really spur development." - Ross Tilghman

The rest of the quote is...

"It is one of many factors that can spur development." (emphasis in presentation slide)

The rest of the quote is...

"It is one of many factors that can spur development." (emphasis in presentation slide)

ah, must have missed that.

so, when does streetcar construction start?

ah, must have missed that.

so, when does streetcar construction start?

According to City staff not for at least 10 years (no mention of timing in the ULI presentation)

I would like to respond directly to this "10 year thing."

The streetcar committee has not met yet, will meet soon, and will recommend routes and schedules to the MAPS Oversight Board who will confer with mayor/council and assign schedules.

Two city staff member opinions do not constitute an official schedule.

While I can appreciate a favored downtown reporter capturing two engineers with their PR guards down, it is unfair to "crystallize" and give credence to a sensationalist story before the process begins and subsequently "speaks its mind."

There will plenty of new and substantive news coming out about transit/streetcars.

"There is a vast industry that will tell you build a streetcar and the buildings will follow it. It's more complicated...it's less clear if streetcars really spur development." - Ross Tilghman

I met with Ross officially and he had many great insights. But, I find the "vast industry" comment a bit inflated. There are only three modern streetcar system in the United States- Tacoma, Portland, Seattle.

The private re-development return along streetcar alignments has been a minimum of $10 for every $1 of public money spent. It is that track record specific to (modern streetcars) which has propagated the theory that anywhere you put the track density and development will follow.

The real question for Oklahoma City is where should specific TOD's be considered in this project?

Ross believes and subsequently stated during the ULI presentation that he thinks we should only pursue one TOD centric project in the streetcar plan. If you follow his line of thinking, who gets the TOD?

I would like to respond directly to this "10 year thing."

The streetcar committee has not met yet, will meet soon, and will recommend routes and schedules to the MAPS Oversight Board who will confer with mayor/council and assign schedules.

Two city staff member opinions do not constitute an official schedule.

While I can appreciate a favored downtown reporter capturing two engineers with their PR guards down, it is unfair to "crystallize" and give credence to a sensationalist story before the process begins and subsequently "speaks its mind."

There will plenty of new and substantive news coming out about transit/streetcars.

Hey Steve, looks like someone called you out. Game on!

No... No "game on." I respect Steve's position and I hope he respects me.

He is a journalist and has played a very engaged role in the MAPS and downtown projects discussion. However, I do think that an article headlining the premise that "streets are going to be torn up twice and confusion is reigning" is a bit more appropriate after the Oversight Board and Council rule that type of decision.

His recent comments on his blog propagate this unfounded premise on the authoritative level. I say, let the oversight boards and processes take place, assign schedules, then critique.

Urban: what is TOD? Thanks!

Transit Oriented Development is TOD.

There is a new term that is emerging which is Development Oriented Transit.

The first is more along the lines of the incredible boon of energy that you see at the bottom of a highway exit ramp.

The second is building the "highway" in the first place out to a specific undeveloped area.

Highway being rails- lol

So, with that premise, do you believe the streetcar as many do will be one giant DOT or do you think there should be specific TOD's?

I can think of some very large Urban Renewal properties still remaining in Midtown and by Film Row.

So, with that premise, do you believe the streetcar as many do will be one giant DOT or do you think there should be specific TOD's?

I can think of some very large Urban Renewal properties still remaining in Midtown and by Film Row.

How was it defined in MAPS3? That's what everyone voted for.

It wasn't/shouldn't be defined. Development as the result of Modern Streetcars is simply a great "by product."

I am sure that during the streetcar campaign we "touted" the economic/jobs reaction to streetcar construction, but voters basically voted on that issue recognizing that it is the start of the Regional Transit System and implementation of the Fixed Guideway Study.

nm

...There is a new term that is emerging which is Development Oriented Transit.

The first is more along the lines of the incredible boon of energy that you see at the bottom of a highway exit ramp.

The second is building the "highway" in the first place out to a specific undeveloped area...
Funny, everything old is new again. In the early 20th centrury, Anton Classen and John Shartel built the OKC streetcar system to spur development in OKC's original suburbs, now some of Oklahoma City's most successful and beautiful inner-city neighborhoods. Developers like Classen and Shartel did the same thing all over the country. The original development-oriented transit.

This route is right at 6 miles, follows very closely to the Fixed Guideway Study, but includes Broadway and less 'jogs'. I think it would be a very easy to learn system.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/Platemaker_photos/okc.jpg
Downtown... you'd be within 1.5 blocks of the streetcar no matter where you were.

This will be a great start and it does enhance the City's image; however, it does little for mass transit. Oklahoma City is spread out and not as densely populated as most cities.

As they expand beyond 6 miles, I'm sure places of interests (Zoo area, Western Heritage Museum, Stockyards) will be our priority!

Well, the funny thing about our project is that the streetcar will become ever more successful as commuter routes are added.

Usually other cities have added a local "circulator" or streetcar as the result of people being dumped out at the "end point." Almost like today Amtrak passengers disembark at Santa Fe and better be prepared to walk, have a friend pick them up, or catch a cab.

Amazingly, we are taking the reverse approach and planning ahead. We are building the "nucleus" of the Regional System and adding the commuter routes to Edmond, Norman, Mid/Del, and Yukon later.

So, expect incredible usage by those already downtown to get to places just outside of walking distances, to only increase as future commuters are "dumped" into the streetcar system.

It is a plan set up for long term success and will fundamentally change how people in this city view public transit for the positive.

Usually other cities have added a local "circulator" or streetcar as the result of people being dumped out at the "end point." Almost like today Amtrak passengers disembark at Santa Fe and better be prepared to walk, have a friend pick them up, or catch a cab.

Amazingly, we are taking the reverse approach and planning ahead. We are building the "nucleus" of the Regional System and adding the commuter routes to Edmond, Norman, Mid/Del, and Yukon later.

So, expect incredible usage by those already downtown to get to places just outside of walking distances, to only increase as future commuters are "dumped" into the streetcar system.

It is a plan set up for long term success and will fundamentally change how people in this city view public transit for the positive.

Ironically, the people supporting regional high speed rail are using the exact opposite logic. They want to connect cities that people can't get around in once they get there.

Isn't it somewhat bizarre Kerry? You would think as much as high-speed rail costs it would be easy to slip in a few hundred million to install local circulators/streetcar systems to make it truly work.

I often wonder what is exactly going on in Tulsa. They talked about a streetcar at great length in their latest public planning, Planit Tulsa.

If Tulsa put in a streetcar system we could marry the two downtowns together with Amtrak or commuter rail.

Imagine going to Cains Ballroom, spending a night at the Mayo, eating dinner at Lola's or seeing and event at the BOK Center and never have to worry/deal with a car and they could come see us.

If the speed of service between was efficient enough, it would salve a great many wounds with greater shared economic activity and cultural enjoyment/appreciation.

The impact of well designed rail service is greatly underestimated, and the "pie in the sky" thinking of multi-billion dollar systems is over rated by enthusiasts.

Who would go to Tulsa on high speed rail since Tulsa has no transit system? I wouldn't because I would have no way to get around once I got there. I rarely go to cities without mass transit by anything but car for that very reason.

Who would go to Tulsa on high speed rail since Tulsa has no transit system? I wouldn't because I would have no way to get around once I got there. I rarely go to cities without mass transit by anything but car for that very reason.

Presume you mean they don't have a rail transit system as they seem to have a rather extensive bus system (my company prints their bus schedule, usually in the 64-128 pg range). You would get around the same way you get around anywhere else. Walk. Taxi. Bus. Rental etc. If you limit yourself to those places that only have rail connections, you are also limiting yourself to the things you can do (does rail come to where you are and go to where you want to be).

OKC doesn't have a rail transit system either (yet). How do you get around here?

My preference, Larry. I just don't tend to go to cities without great mass transit unless I drive there, because I don't like renting cars to travel around cities. Tulsa may have a great bus system, but it's close enough that I'm probably going to drive, and not have to hassle with their transit system, unless the train station has bus service that comes directly there and it's easy to get where I want to go. I rarely go to Tulsa, regardless, and when I have, their bus system hasn't been obvious to me.

My husband grew up in NYC, and he's not big on taxis. He was riding the subway at 8 years old, with friends and sans parents, and he considers it a sign of weakness to have to take a cab to get around cities with decent mass transit:).

PUBLIC INPUT ON STREETCAR TO MOVE FORWARD

Friends, I am proud to say that the official public input process on a preffered streetcar route is about to move forward. MTP Volunteers and MAPS Campaigners worked hard to make the funding for such an ambitious transit project a reality.

The outreach and MAPS 3 campaigning is about to transition to a substantive design process very quickly that will directly ask for your opinions.

As the steering committee is assigned, it is the intention of those involved to assign a expedited preffered route in the Project 180 area and a longer term system plan for multi-decade expansions of our planned World Class streetcar system.

As more information regarding meeting dates and times avails itself, I will immediately post the information.

It is the intention of the streetcar steering committee to begin holding public meetings as early as the end of this month.

The committee looks forward to your online and physical participation in the dialogue. It is an exciting time for Oklahoma City.

Great news!

PUBLIC INPUT ON STREETCAR TO MOVE FORWARD

Friends, I am proud to say that the official public input process on a preffered streetcar route is about to move forward. MTP Volunteers and MAPS Campaigners worked hard to make the funding for such an ambitious transit project a reality.

The outreach and MAPS 3 campaigning is about to transition to a substantive design process very quickly that will directly ask for your opinions.

As the steering committee is assigned, it is the intention of those involved to assign a expedited preffered route in the Project 180 area and a longer term system plan for multi-decade expansions of our planned World Class streetcar system.

As more information regarding meeting dates and times avails itself, I will immediately post the information.

It is the intention of the streetcar steering committee to begin holding public meetings as early as the end of this month.

The committee looks forward to your online and physical participation in the dialogue. It is an exciting time for Oklahoma City.

How can the streetcar steering committee start meeting if the City Council hasn't even approved the nominees for whole Maps 3 oversight board?

Are you being appointed to this committee?

PUBLIC INPUT ON STREETCAR TO MOVE FORWARD

Friends, I am proud to say that the official public input process on a preffered streetcar route is about to move forward. MTP Volunteers and MAPS Campaigners worked hard to make the funding for such an ambitious transit project a reality.

The outreach and MAPS 3 campaigning is about to transition to a substantive design process very quickly that will directly ask for your opinions.

As the steering committee is assigned, it is the intention of those involved to assign a expedited preffered route in the Project 180 area and a longer term system plan for multi-decade expansions of our planned World Class streetcar system.

As more information regarding meeting dates and times avails itself, I will immediately post the information.

It is the intention of the streetcar steering committee to begin holding public meetings as early as the end of this month.

The committee looks forward to your online and physical participation in the dialogue. It is an exciting time for Oklahoma City.

Are you on the committee Urban? If so, how do I get to "physically" join the dialogue?

Woohoo! That is fantastic news for this critical component of our longterm multi modal transportation plans for this great and growing city!!!! I will look forward to updates with rapt attention! Thanks Urban Pioneer!

How can the streetcar steering committee start meeting if the City Council hasn't even approved the nominees for whole Maps 3 oversight board?

Are you being appointed to this committee?

The "streetcar steering committee" is actually the Alternatives Analysis committee. This committee would have convened even without the passage of MAPS or oversight board appt. Yes I am on it.

The studious use of taxpayer funds by accelerating the determination of which streets will be in the 180 affected area is further advancing the speed at which information is solicited and gathered.

There will be a series of public input meetings to be announced shortly to solicit your input as well as online blogging interfaces. More to come shortly.

The "streetcar steering committee" is actually the Alternatives Analysis committee. This committee would have convened even without the passage of MAPS or oversight board appt. Yes I am on it.

The studious use of taxpayer funds by accelerating the determination of which streets will be in the 180 affected area is further advancing the speed at which information is solicited and gathered.

There will be a series of public input meetings to be announced shortly to solicit your input as well as online blogging interfaces. More to come shortly.

It was my understanding that each project from the Maps 3 resolution will have its own subcommittee (a steering committee of sorts) as a subset of the Maps 3 oversight board. That's where my question came from. I think it's important to note that this is Alternatives Analysis, required in the Federal funding process, and not the Maps 3 process. The AA might end up informing Maps 3, but not the other way around.

Are these steering committee meetings public meetings? If so, why are you already speaking as though the committee has discussed ideas? Have the initial meetings already happened and been advertised?

I think you will find that the AA may fill the role of a subcomittee as you describe simply by coincidence.

No, no steering committee meetings have happened as of yet and the meetings described are clearly open to the public and will be announced shortly.

PUBLIC INPUT MEETINGS TO COMMENCE REGARDING DOWNTOWN STREETCAR ROUTES

The Modern Transit Project is pleased to announce that official meetings are planned to gather public input to determine streetcar alignments in the downtown area.

March 29th (Monday) (City Hall) 12 PM
March 29th (Monday) (City Hall) 6 - 8 PM

April 13th (Tuesday) (Civic Center) 6 - 8 PM

April 29th (Thursday) (Civic Center) 6 - 8 PM

May 11th (Tuesday) (Civic Center) 6 - 8 PM

May 27th (Thursday) (City Hall) 12 PM
May 27th (Thursday) (City Hall) 6 - 8 PM


Metro Transit and the City of Oklahoma City have also put together an excellent website entitled "lets talk transit" Home | A Community Discussion on Oklahoma City's Modern Streetcar and Alternatives Analysis, Central Oklaho (http://www.letstalktransit.com)

Those interested in participating in the process and contributing input are encouraged to visit the site. Administrators are also in the process of developing a online blog that will be regularly updated by transit supporters.

About the Process

The public input gathered at the scheduled meetings and via the online interfaces will be collated and given to the new Alternatives Analysis Steering Committee. The Committee will determine the best preferred downtown route for our world class Modern Streetcar out of the information gathered.

What Happens to the MTP?

The Modern Transit Project Committee and Board Advisers considers the election of MAPS 3 transit initiatives our success story. We are in the process of assisting with the Alternatives Analysis Steering Committee. In the near future, a major announcement regarding the pursuit of additional transit initiatives will be made. The initiatives will directly impact our success towards the pursuit of a regional 21st century transit system.

Your continued support will be appreciated.

Jeff M. Bezdek
(Campaign Director)



See the electronic newsletter here: Public Input Meetings on MAPS Streetcar Routes Enclosed (http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001aqj1QInodGTWyTzlRpQvVcC8AlKSvfOhLUiO3P RU9ZoUoUIonHQEANSXsKV-DlT-HIfiBnLOXMlq0xyYRIIZkwy_os2hKpMYwUzVevgAqKi4zjcaEr LulDZ1fC3V3MJqURR9WnZTkmHaG_Qprns3xWeg0roMcIRuAokN mwDeJ7acvKDJvTY8gNsgBq87HdEjo_w3IvtjQ-KMGGGLkmAhOIn7zvN-AbwTUGiT8LKKuIP01YgO2s2_GjyTWISY9btSQXTL1dSm8srAzM CSbFdZf9gcwwi1w-wWV3aW8-1Ry9DuXxm1VlsmVSztHSgoYzoVJNX7j9v5EYQ%3D)

Press Release for the Transit meeting:

TwitDoc.com - the EASY way to share your documents on Twitter (http://twitdoc.com/c/qgz86w)

Solid Information:

Included in the area of focus will be various downtown districts such as the Automobile Alley, Bricktown, Central Business District, Deep Deuce, Film District, Oklahoma Health Center, Midtown and the Core to Shore area.

“This is the first step toward a new transit vision for our City,” said Mayor Cornett. “We’re encouraging every citizen to offer input. These meetings will help us identify the service areas that are most important to those who work in, live in and visit our downtown.”

Citizens can provide their input online or through a series of Let’s Talk Transit public meetings.

The agenda for each of the five meeting dates will change because it will build on the information and input from the previous meeting. On the first and last dates the community will have the option to attend a morning or an evening meeting with the same agenda.

This accelerated process is necessary to identify what streets the streetcar may travel and to coordinate the plan with Project 180 - Oklahoma City’s downtown streetscape plan starting in May 2010. Through cooperative planning, the projects will minimize disruption due to construction and maximize cost savings.

Included in MAPS 3, passed by Oklahoma City voters in December 2009, is approximately $130 million in funding for public transportation. The transit package includes approximately five miles of downtown streetcar and a multimodal transit hub in downtown.

“Five miles of streetcar will only allow us to cover a limited area,” said Rick Cain, Administrator of COTPA and Director of Public Transportation and Parking for the City of Oklahoma City. “That’s why it’s critical we get input from citizens about their preferred destinations and routes in downtown Oklahoma City.”

In hopes of building on the MAPS 3 modern streetcar project, an Alternatives Analysis (AA) study is underway. The AA study will provide a broader scope of the transportation needs of downtown Oklahoma City and is required to qualify for future federal funding. While a modern streetcar will provide improved mobility in the area, the AA will look at planning with emerging technologies and services for further enhancing downtown public transportation for the next 30 years.

An AA Steering Committee made up of citizens is currently being formed to review input from transit consultants, city planners and engineers about capital, operating costs and other infrastructure that must be considered, as well as to listen to input from the public about where they want to go. The input from the Let’s Talk Transit public discussion will be reviewed and considered by the Alternatives Analysis Steering Committee for their recommendation to the City Council.

Thanks Urban Pioneer for all this information and the hard work you've put in to make this happen. If it were up to me I'd have you pick the route as you seem to know more about the subject than most of our city leaders and planners. Good Job!

I second Fishstick...Thank you Urban for your leadership and guidance with this important project! I was skeptical at first but I have become a believer.
I hope your MTP public meetings are a success!
Will you be moderating all the meetings?

I would still like to see more Metro buses first...then the Streetcar. Having grown up in San Francisco I love Streetcars...maybe we need to build a few hills on the outskirts a ways?

Thank you both kindly. I will be involved in the process but remain committed to having an open debate about streetcar routes. When we first formed the campaign, there was a conscious decision to avoid "subverting the public process" by endorsing a specific route (specific streets). I do have my opinions, but hopefully through strong input and committee deliberation we will design a system that this City can be proud of

In the very near future the AA Committee and MAPS Board of Advisers and related subcommittee appointments will be announced. The appointees should be a impressive cross-section thoroughly representing this community.

Everyone should try to make these meetings and use the website to submit your opinions.

Jeff, has it been decided that the starter line will not loop? The online survey seemed to indicate as such with the question about two "anchors".

jbrown84 - nothing has been decided at all! We're interested in learning what you (the community) think are staple destinations ("anchor": venues that draw large amounts of people and are visited often) in Downtown OKC.

Anchors aren't meant to indicate start/stop ending points. For example, in Portland that streetcar system does loop, but at its furthest ends are large "anchor" destinations. (see - Portland Streetcar (http://www.portlandstreetcar.org/map.php))

I hope this clarifies the question. If you have a recommendation for clarification, we want to know!

LetsTalkTransit.com

If possible, the Survey needs a "Comments" section.

...they seem to have a rather extensive bus system (my company prints their bus schedule, usually in the 64-128 pg range).

Larry,

How much would ya'll charge me to modify Rt. 8 so it would run near my apartment, which is about 4 miles from the nearest Bus Stop?

They're also lining up several official guest bloggers to help coordinate the online information, and additionally there will be an Internet forum on their website to give people a place to exchange their own ideas, and be heard. They have a very dynamic PR approach to the transit initiative, something that's been lacking for a long time, and I would directly attribute to the change to Jeff Bezdek (Urban Pioneer) and his citizen-led efforts behind this project.

I would still like to see more Metro buses first...then the Streetcar. Having grown up in San Francisco I love Streetcars...maybe we need to build a few hills on the outskirts a ways?

More buses is exactly what we DON"T NEED. If they would post ridership numbers, it would be hard for anyone to have a valid argument for more buses.

More buses is exactly what we DON"T NEED. If they would post ridership numbers, it would be hard for anyone to have a valid argument for more buses.

Not to be negative, but I am wondering if the same thing will be said about the streetcars after the novelty wears off. I hope not as 130 million dollars is a huge expenditure for a project that might prove to be unpopular outside the confines of OKC Talk and Urban Pioneer's committee.

Popsy, we lifted the Modern Streetcar from the 2005 FGS, which was created by a outside engineering firm modeled around predicted ridership numbers. We just embraced the "nucleus" as the start of the regional system.

Urban, will the ridership numbers be impacted by the route selected?

rcjunkie,

Well, if the City will run the Streetcar out here to NW122nd and Council, then we won't need more buses. But, in the meantime I am going to press for a few more buses or modifications of some of the routes.

Curious...is "rc" for RC Cola, Radio Controlled or something entirely different?

rcjunkie,

Well, if the City will run the Streetcar out here to NW122nd and Council, then we won't need more buses. But, in the meantime I am going to press for a few more buses or modifications of some of the routes.

Curious...is "rc" for RC Cola, Radio Controlled or something entirely different?

Radio Controlled. My son and I are huge Nitro RC Fans. He's 15 and has raced rc cars for almost 5 years, during the spring and summer we travel all over the US racing.

^^^gasoline or battery? rcjunkie some of those rc cars are flat out FAST!

Radio Controlled. My son and I are huge Nitro RC Fans. He's 15 and has raced rc cars for almost 5 years, during the spring and summer we travel all over the US racing.

I raced R/C cars for a few years! I use to race at Competition R/C (When it was GOOD), Action R/C, and The Red Barn between NE 23rd and NE 36th off I-35 (The name slips my mind). They're a BLAST!! yet expensive!

Urban, will the ridership numbers be impacted by the route selected?

Most definitely. It is a fine balance between obtaining good ridership numbers and using the streetcar to create density.

Usually there is an "anchor" at each end of the line. In our case the hub or convention area might be an anchor.

What is the most important route to build? What should be the priority anchor at the other end? These are the first questions we should start to focus on.

Most definitely. It is a fine balance between obtaining good ridership numbers and using the streetcar to create density.

Usually there is an "anchor" at each end of the line. In our case the hub or convention area might be an anchor.

What is the most important route to build? What should be the priority anchor at the other end? These are the first questions we should start to focus on.

The State Capitol Complex needs to be one anchor. If the city is going need state funds at some point we need to get them as early users. Plus, they are a major employment center.

I agree and a natural other extension would be to tie into the Health Science Center. It would be fantastic if students and professionals alike had the option of hopping on a street car and zipping into bricktown for a lunch meeting, and then back. It is the interconnectivity of these areas where people work and want to be that will drive up ridership and allow folks to really effectively utilize the public transportation system that we are trying to build.

With our initial 5-6 miles it will be very difficult to expect much in the way of ridership, but if it is viewed as instead a vital first leg of a much more comprehensive plan it will be easier for everyday citizens to get behind it. I just worry about promoted expectations and that once the first route is laid that everyone will watch with baited breath to see if it is a success or a failure based on the short length alone, and independent and that it can be used as an opportunity to say...see I told you it was a waste of money. We just need to educate citizens that it is a necessary component of a larger system that will and can be evaluated once it is more substantially complete and accessible by its riders.

I cannot wait to see the first tracks going in, what a tremendous time for our city!