The comments already on this newsok article make me question my faith in humanity...

Citizens board approves streetcar route through Oklahoma City central business district | News OK (http://newsok.com/citizens-board-approves-streetcar-route-through-oklahoma-city-central-business-district/article/3874873)

Always good stuff no matter the subject...

The comments already on this newsok article make me question my faith in humanity...

It can get frustrating sometimes warren. I have no doubt this streetcar will be very successful and set OKC up to improve its entire transit system. Anyone who believes the MAPS 3 streetcar is harming bus service has been lied to, misinformed, or willfully ignorant. MAPS is for capital projects and CANNOT be used for operations and maintenance. The streetcar O&M is likely lower per vehicle capacity than busses. MAPS is the right way to build the streetcar - higher initial cost but lower O&M.

To improve the bus system, those on the city council who have been ranting about it need to present a plan to fund the higher O&M budget COTPA needs to improve the bus system. Sure they could try to use MAPS funds to buy some improved bus stops and some of the large number of busses needed to achieve the headways they are talking about - but how are they going to operate and maintain them? (There is also the not insignificant matter of not following through on the MAPS projects as presented to the voters.) The O&M for the streetcar is already within the city's ability to pay AND the subcommittee is aggressively pursuing ways to supplement the city's funding.

I continue to be baffled by the deceptive campaign being waged against one of the most popular line items in the MAPS3 proposal. The ludicrous arguments about "not everyone will "get" to ride it" are silly - does every single person in OKC walk along the Bricktown canal? Does everyone row a boat on the river? Does everyone get to go to Thunder games? Does everyone go to the library? Has every person in OKC gone to a Redhawks game? No they don't, but they could. The call to defund the streetcar project and shift those funds to the bus system is disengenuous at best - I will refrain from using a few of the other words I can think of on this forum. (But this purposely deceiving negative campaign is more than enough to convince me that those who participate in it are not worthy of being trustEd.)

The streetcar is an absolute win for anyone that really cares about transit in OKC and more importantly, transit riders of today and the future. The route that was approved today is an excellent use of the MAPS funds. The route accomplishes every goal for the system. It will lay the groundwork for more investment in transit in the coming years - either as an OKC only initiative or hopefully as a regional transit authority. Either way, OKC and its citizens win. The engineering team and subcommittee should be applauded for their efforts.

I continue to be baffled by the deceptive campaign being waged against one of the most popular line items in the MAPS3 proposal. The ludicrous arguments about "not everyone will "get" to ride it" are silly - does every single person in OKC walk along the Bricktown canal? Does everyone row a boat on the river? Does everyone get to go to Thunder games? Does everyone go to the library? Has every person in OKC gone to a Redhawks game? No they don't, but they could. The call to defund the streetcar project and shift those funds to the bus system is disengenuous at best - I will refrain from using a few of the other words I can think of on this forum. (But this purposely deceiving negative campaign is more than enough to convince me that those who participate in it are not worthy of being trustEd.)

Major cheers to that!! TrustEd, lol...please don't tell me that's his campaign moniker!!

The comments already on this newsok article make me question my faith in humanity...

Citizens board approves streetcar route through Oklahoma City central business district | News OK (http://newsok.com/citizens-board-approves-streetcar-route-through-oklahoma-city-central-business-district/article/3874873)

I don't know which comment are more dumb - the ones quoted in the story or the ones posted at the bottom of the story.

Do you consider this to be dumb?


Streetcars should be traversing the 4.6-mile loop linking MidTown to Bricktown in 2017.

By then, advancements could enable the 66-foot coaches to cover significant portions of the route without needing overhead wires to supply power.

Lee Nichols, a senior planner with Jacobs, the city's lead streetcar consultant, said Thursday that “hybrid” streetcars, with sections off wires, are being developed in Seattle and Dallas.

There's a growing desire to be off-wire, reducing the clutter in busy urban settings, and advances in battery and other technologies increasingly make that possible, Nichols said.

Oklahoma City's streetcar already will require an off-wire solution for crossing under BNSF railroad tracks between downtown and Bricktown.

As for fares:

Would it be legal/possible to keep the tram free for the following demographics with a valid ID?:

1. Children (I think this is a given)
2. Seniors (60/65+)
3. Oklahoma City residents
4. lastly and most difficultly students or 21 and under

For all of these demographics, you would simply show the ticketer, driver, or fare-inspector your (valid) state-ID or drivers license and be given a free ticket or not required to buy one or however exactly you want to set up the system.

The 18/21 and under crowd or student den. would be the most difficult to figure out, but I'm sure a way could be devised to make that.

So that leaves paying ridership to be non-residents who are of the most likely age bracket to make use of the tram. And for them it would be like $1.50/2 for a day-ticket or $7.50-$10 for a week-ticket. And maybe like $.50-$1.00 for an "all-night" ticket (5PM to 3AM)

As for fares:

Would it be legal/possible to keep the tram free for the following demographics with a valid ID?:

1. Children (I think this is a given)
2. Seniors (60/65+)
3. Oklahoma City residents
4. lastly and most difficultly students or 21 and under

For all of these demographics, you would simply show the ticketer, driver, or fare-inspector your (valid) state-ID or drivers license and be given a free ticket or not required to buy one or however exactly you want to set up the system.

The 18/21 and under crowd or student den. would be the most difficult to figure out, but I'm sure a way could be devised to make that.

So that leaves paying ridership to be non-residents who are of the most likely age bracket to make use of the tram. And for them it would be like $1.50/2 for a day-ticket or $7.50-$10 for a week-ticket. And maybe like $.50-$1.00 for an "all-night" ticket (5PM to 3AM)

Similar to a subway, streetcars and light rail are boarded at every door along the stop-side of the car. Not like a bus where everyone passes in front of the operator.

In Denver, their fares were collected on the honor system. And I'd guess based on a day I spent just riding their light rail around town, that 2/3'rds of riders honored the fares. There were no turn styles or place to prove your fare, yet the majority of people I observed still paid the fare. So even the honor system will bring in revenue by just having an unmanned ticketing kiosk.

As mentioned earlier - collecting a fare on a street car is hard because of the delay involved. This is one of the reasons why most cities have a free downtown zone. When you put in a station it is easier to charge a fare because people arrive at the station well before the train and can pass through a turnstile (assuming it is a simple fare system - one price to go anywhere). If you have to pay by the zone then you can buy tickets before getting on the train or from an on-board conductor, but there is no turnstile. The distance between stations gives the conductor time to collect tickets before the next stop.

In Atlanta you can get a resident MARTA ticket which is a hard plastic ticket that you can re-fill (debt card). If you get a ticket out of the machine it is paper. To get the plastic debt card you have to submit an application along with a utility bill showing an Atlanta area address. I'm not sure how much 'logic' is built into the card but I think it knows if you are a student, senior, child, or disabled and charges accordingly when you swipe it.

As mentioned earlier - collecting a fare on a street car is hard because of the delay involved. This is one of the reasons why most cities have a free downtown zone. When you put in a station it is easier to charge a fare because people arrive at the station well before the train and can pass through a turnstile (assuming it is a simple fare system - one price to go anywhere). If you have to pay by the zone then you can buy tickets before getting on the train or from an on-board conductor, but there is no turnstile. The distance between stations gives the conductor time to collect tickets before the next stop.

In Atlanta you can get a resident MARTA ticket which is a hard plastic ticket that you can re-fill (debt card). If you get a ticket out of the machine it is paper. To get the plastic debt card you have to submit an application along with a utility bill showing an Atlanta area address. I'm not sure how much 'logic' is built into the card but I think it knows if you are a student, senior, child, or disabled and charges accordingly when you swipe it.

It's really not hard to collect a fare on a tram...you just put a kiosk in the vehicle.

Considering that the tram is being paid for by a tax voted in by OKC residents, I feel like until we have a substantial tram system (covering at least a 2/2.5 mile radius on about 3 to 5 different routes) then we ought to do everything possible to keep at the very least, residents from paying. If the collection of fares is essential to the existence of the tram, then it will likely end up being seen as a failure for the decade after it is built, because the ridership just simply will not be there. As midtown fills in over the next 5 to 15 years, then it just won't be a big deal walking from East Bricktown Apts to The Edge. It's under 2 miles so generally under 25 minute walk (and biking would certainly beat the tram)...I doubt much time on average would be saved using the tram. Obviously there would be other factors in Downtowners choosing to walk or take the tram, but generally, I think the ridership will consist of out-of-towners staying at hotels or suburbanites in downtown for the evening who don't believe in walking :-P . I think for the DT residents, if you charge them to take the tram, you've incentivized walking that much more.

The fare system at this point really should be limited to day, 3-day, weekend, week, month, quarterly, or year passes.

Streetcars in 2017? | News OK (http://newsok.com/streetcars-in-2017/article/3875176)

The idea that the route needs to pass directly in front of the SF-IMH makes me scratch my head.

...It's a block...and a block that should get weather protecting elements built in front anyway, so walking 100 feet to either stop is inconsequential.

Laying tracks in front of the SF-IMH with Zeta being the beginning route chosen is irresponsible for any reason other than establishing an express route that predominantly travels Broadway/EKG/Shields from something like 23rd to the River (which would be an AWESOME route if OKC allowed drinking on the River and cold beer from the liquor store! Get your 4-pack of cold Coop Native Amber hop on the tram to the River and enjoy a day zip-lining to and fro)

This is important- Streetcars in 2017? | News OK (http://newsok.com/streetcars-in-2017/article/3875176)

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/174652_203749819767937_1987692824_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oklahoma-City-Streetcar/203749819767937)Oklahoma City Streetcar (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oklahoma-City-Streetcar/203749819767937) It is our understanding that city traffic engineers have thus far refused to coordinate or show their plans to the consultants and the Subcommittee.

The "age old" problem between the very powerful auto centric traffic engineering/Public Works Department and transit advocates.

As far as the Phase 1 design is concerned, if Reno and Sheridan flank the station, a architectural connection between the stops and the old facility could be made; that is, if EK Gaylord is designed right to provide the space for the stops.

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/370770_1070875956_1295460828_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/hboutwell)Heidi Boutwell (https://www.facebook.com/hboutwell) · Knowing that I personally worked on the EK Gaylord stretch of P180, I can say this, no expansion for street car or light rail stops were added. Not one subconsultant Engineering firm has had a copy of the "approved" or "proposed" or "future" route of any street car or light rail system for P180. It would help all subconsulting engineering firms if the future approved route was shared as soon as possible so that adjustments can be made in designs that are not built but under review at this current time.

https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/174652_203749819767937_1987692824_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oklahoma-City-Streetcar/203749819767937)Oklahoma City Streetcar (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Oklahoma-City-Streetcar/203749819767937) Great post! Glad to hear SOMEBODY is actually saying something about this. Mr. Public Works, can't you get Tertra Tech and JACOBS / URS together? Geez...



https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/370770_1070875956_1295460828_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/hboutwell)Heidi Boutwell (https://www.facebook.com/hboutwell) ·Just to clarify one thing about adding in street car/light rail stops, as I have worked on several other cities light rail and street car systems from the West coast. If we do NOT know the route we can not move utilities so that the rail line can avoid them, that is the biggest issue besides placing the stops that I see since no routes have been given. Why dig up the street twice to 1-add in new utilities while expanding and making a new street, then 2- move them later to avoid the rail line because a route was given that goes right over those new utilities you just added in. It would be more cost effective and wise if you can do this before the rail line is in place.




https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/41758_1182169824_1760930229_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1182169824)Jeff Bezdek (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1182169824) · Heidi, the Subcommittee raised serious cane about this issue regarding utilities. We got absolutely NO traction with Public Works or City Management.

Councilman Shadid despises the streetcar and it's Subcommittee so much, he even defended the Public Works Director on this issue. Arguably, the timelines between the recommended route going through the process and the P180 targeted goals did not line up. BUT EK GAYLORD DOES! Whoever is reading this, encourage our Public Works Department to coordinate these two project better.

Get the consultants in the room together and design EK Gaylord right- 1st for pedestrians, 2nd for transit, 3rd for cars.


https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/41758_1182169824_1760930229_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1182169824)Jeff Bezdek (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1182169824) · This issue about EK Gaylord, transit, and pedestrians makes me very, very upset. It would be an egregious waste of money to not integrate these two projects meaningfully together.



https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/1116348_1326598662_791968988_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/bencfenwick)Ben Fenwick (https://www.facebook.com/bencfenwick) · Public Relations (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Public-Relations/108559439167716) at Rose State College (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rose-State-College/116332471717926)How would they not? Doesn't it cross Gaylord?
https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/41758_1182169824_1760930229_q.jpg (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1182169824)Jeff Bezdek (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1182169824) · It will cost money and yes the routes cross Gaylord on Sheridan, Reno, and in a "Phase 2 Scenario" to connect to the Park, it would literally be on the EK Gaylord street for 2 blocks. This is one of those moments when simply lining the two projects up right and having the consultants in the room together, would make all of the difference in the world.

It is fascinating that we now finally had someone speak out from the "other side" (P180 consultants) about their frustration with these issues. Pete B, chime in any time.

I'm confused. EK Gaylord hasn't even been touched by Project 180 yet and by the time they do get to it, it will be very easy to integrate the approved streetcar system into it if necessary given the mismanaged funds for Project 180 aren't depleted by then.

Even if the streetcar does not run north-south on EK Gaylord in the immediate future, it makes sense for the P180 people to move utilities from the east side (?) of the street that are in the way for a future streetcar stop in front of the Santa Fe station. I hope the city will look ahead and prepare for future projects while completing work that is needed today. To fail to do so would be inexcusable in this case.

Here is a story from today's Wall Street Journal on "wireless" electric busses. They roll on tires and are charged from a grid under the street. I put this in the streetcar thread because I don't think OKC's sparse ridership could justify the citywide installation of such an expensive system.

South Korea Tests New Technology for Electric Bus - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323980604579030340856307338.html?m od=WSJ_Tech_LEADTop)

SEOUL—South Korea is experimenting with electric buses that can charge wirelessly while in motion, a technology that could help ease the pollution plaguing cities.

The city of Gumi, about 150 miles southeast of Seoul, is the testing ground for two so-called on-line electric vehicles, which ply a 15-mile route up to 10 times a day. The locally made buses can charge while moving or when stationed without physical contact with the power supply, a technology on which companies such as Qualcomm Inc. and Bombardier Inc. also are working. At the heart of the buses is power-transfer technology that can shape electromagnetic fields in a specific direction, minimizing lost energy while in transit.

Here is a story from today's Wall Street Journal on "wireless" electric busses. They roll on tires and are charged from a grid under the street. I put this in the streetcar thread because I don't think OKC's sparse ridership could justify the citywide installation of such an expensive system.

Which may be one reason why OKC has never considered that and likely never will.

Streetcar route, Shadid and his antics, and overhead wires.

https://soundcloud.com/moderntransitproject-okc/ktok-gwin-faulconer-lippert

Streetcar route, Shadid and his antics, and overhead wires.

https://soundcloud.com/moderntransitproject-okc/ktok-gwin-faulconer-lippert

Really respect your commitment to this project and your willingness to finally be outspoken after being pretty darn gracious for quite some time.

Really respect your commitment to this project and your willingness to finally be outspoken after being pretty darn gracious for quite some time.

Many thanks Pete. I really appreciate it. The same goes to you. This blog provides a forum for those might not otherwise have a voice.

I am hearing the Streetcar route video is out. Anyone see it yet?

Here it is:

Oklahoma City Streetcar Route Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnZIQ0tNKg)

That is excellent. You really get a much better idea of the distance the streetcar will cover - and this is only Phase I! I am even more convinced the Zeta route was the right choice for our first phase.

Hopefully all will go well at the September 24 City Council meeting and petty political games will be overcome by forward looking vision that will advance this project another step closer to reality.

Here is a very good article about transit oriented development in St Louis along their light rail corridors:

nextSTL | The Best Transit-Oriented Neighborhood in St. Louis is Completely Planned, Now What? (http://nextstl.com/transportation/skinky-d-tod)

Here it is:

Oklahoma City Streetcar Route Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnZIQ0tNKg)

That guy driving in the video totally ran some stop signs.

Most of that is just really good editing. We eliminated most of the time stopped at lights and stops. However, the 11th and Robinson intersection was a careful roll through to prevent the camera from bobbing up and down wildly. That intersection was tricky to do. We also did this on a hot Sunday afternoon to avoid as much traffic as possible and laws were obeyed. It took about 6 trips and editing to get it right. About a solid week of editing.

So what is the actual route...the last one I saw stated that the Streetcar won't even touch the MAPS 3 Park (much less Union Station), but will be a full block away...the video says that there is a MAPS 3 Park "connection" (implying that, it is at the very least, an intersection of the Park). Which is it?

The Phase I line is one block away from the park and therefore considered serving the park. The most likely MAPS3 Phase II line I have seen proposed will actually run along the west edge of the park and into Core to Shore.

So what is the actual route...the last one I saw stated that the Streetcar won't even touch the MAPS 3 Park (much less Union Station), but will be a full block away...the video says that there is a MAPS 3 Park "connection" (implying that, it is at the very least, an intersection of the Park). Which is it?

Larry, can you give it a rest??? I mean geez. The park is one block away. That is a connection. People do walk in and to parks right?

Union Station is irrelevant as a transit facility other than the House of COTPA.

Getting to the Park will be as easy as walk in the park.

Streetcars and rail projects spurring development in the Midwest:

Feature> Urban Reroute - The Architect's Newspaper (http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=6825)

I was in Denver over the weekend and their rail lines have spurred urban housing in areas that were blighted just 2 years ago. Lots of new development.

And while I am a huge supporter of improving our bus system, would announcing new bus routes have any significant impact on development? Denver has had a very good bus system since I lived there, as I never had to have a car during the 8 years I lived there. But I never saw it have any impact on the neighborhoods it traversed. We need both rail and bus, and the streetcar will ultimately have a significant impact on our bus system, I predict, while additionally spurring g development and improving quality of life and public perception of our city.

The buses have a bad rep in this city. We aren't going to get the type of funding we need for mass transit if it goes towards the bus. I think people are willing to support trains, though. That is dependent upon the streetcar being a success and making a positive impression.

I have such a lack of faith in the bus system that I would prefer building up a commuter rail network as our primary mass transit system, and then using buses only to supplement those areas not served by the rail.

The buses have a bad rep in this city. We aren't going to get the type of funding we need for mass transit if it goes towards the bus. I think people are willing to support trains, though. That is dependent upon the streetcar being a success and making a positive impression.

I have such a lack of faith in the bus system that I would prefer building up a commuter rail network as our primary mass transit system, and then using buses only to supplement those areas not served by the rail.

That is basically what happened in Dallas/Ft Worth and DART. DART.org - DART History (http://www.dart.org/about/history.asp) It is an interesting read to gain a little perspective on how transit in a car centric metro area often evolves.

Just announced - OKC receives $13.5 M grant from USDOT to renovate Sante Fe Depot as intermodal hub.

TIGER Grants | Department of Transportation (http://www.dot.gov/tiger/)

Sounds like OKC is being recognized for making the commitment to improving transit in central OK. I do not think this will be the last grant OKC will receive as we continue to build upon the foundation the streetcar and hub. The investment into transit by the voters via MAPS3 is paying dividends now and will only improve.

And while I am a huge supporter of improving our bus system, would announcing new bus routes have any significant impact on development? Denver has had a very good bus system since I lived there, as I never had to have a car during the 8 years I lived there. But I never saw it have any impact on the neighborhoods it traversed. We need both rail and bus, and the streetcar will ultimately have a significant impact on our bus system, I predict, while additionally spurring g development and improving quality of life and public perception of our city.

There are people who want buses, not for development but for transportation to and from work/home/school/stores/other and they don't care about something for development purposes. There are so many people who are shortsighted and can't understand that with a streetcar, it will make public transportation in the city more attractive and even bus ridership (not even sure if that is a word...) will go up. It will show that people do want to use public transportation in the city and there will be more of a focus on that in the future.

Just announced - OKC receives $13.5 M grant from USDOT to renovate Sante Fe Depot as intermodal hub.

TIGER Grants | Department of Transportation (http://www.dot.gov/tiger/)

So, with the approximately $10 million to purchase it and then $13.5 million to renovate, how far are we from a complete intermodal hub? Another $50 million or so?

It will be functional for the modes of transit and passenger volume we have right away. As volume increases and additional modes of transport such as commuter rail and higher frequency intercity rail come on line, additional platforms on the rail viaduct will be required.

I think $50 million once everything is complete may not be unreasonable. I think we are likely to receive additional grants for making those improvements though. Now that OKC has demonstrated a tangible commitment to improving transit by funding and building the streetcar, our grant applications will be viewed much more favorably.

It will be functional for the modes of transit and passenger volume we have right away. As volume increases and additional modes of transport such as commuter rail and higher frequency intercity rail come on line, additional platforms on the rail viaduct will be required.

I think $50 million once everything is complete may not be unreasonable. I think we are likely to receive additional grants for making those improvements though. Now that OKC has demonstrated a tangible commitment to improving transit by funding and building the streetcar, our grant applications will be viewed much more favorably.
And even more so when the rails are in the ground.

What a fantastic situation OKC is in. A debt free streetcar system which can attrat federal fundig to expand and improve it and other modes of transit.

Just announced - OKC receives $13.5 M grant from USDOT to renovate Sante Fe Depot as intermodal hub.

TIGER Grants | Department of Transportation (http://www.dot.gov/tiger/)

Sounds like OKC is being recognized for making the commitment to improving transit in central OK. I do not think this will be the last grant OKC will receive as we continue to build upon the foundation the streetcar and hub. The investment into transit by the voters via MAPS3 is paying dividends now and will only improve.

Fantastic news!

Will financing for rehabilitation to the exterior of the station be included in that amount? The limestone if awfully blackened around the upper extremities of the building and around the awnings, which I'll assume is water damage from over the years.

Ben Allen ‏@BenAllenKOSU (https://twitter.com/BenAllenKOSU) 23m (https://twitter.com/BenAllenKOSU/status/375682300932915200) OKC tells me judge appointed cmte ruled Santa Fe station ruled its worth $4.5 mil just this wk - 2 mil more than city's first offer.

Ben Allen ‏@BenAllenKOSU (https://twitter.com/BenAllenKOSU) 52m (https://twitter.com/BenAllenKOSU/status/375675265663266816) OKC grant manager on winning grant for transportation hub: "I yelled in my office. Ppl were just like oh my goodness, what's going on?!"

Ben Allen ‏@BenAllenKOSU (https://twitter.com/BenAllenKOSU) 23m (https://twitter.com/BenAllenKOSU/status/375682300932915200) OKC tells me judge appointed cmte ruled Santa Fe station ruled its worth $4.5 mil just this wk - 2 mil more than city's first offer.

As a reminder, the City offered $2.5 million and the Brewers wanted $23.5 million.

So, now it looks like the number will be about $4.5 million. Essentially, the Brewers were seeking more than 5 times it's fair value.

Fantastic news!
Absolutely! Here's another link (http://kosu.org/2013/09/oklahoma-city-wins-millions-for-transportation-hub/).

This is great news for the city.

Here it is:

Oklahoma City Streetcar Route Video - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLnZIQ0tNKg)

Jeff, I just watched the video that Betts linked to. Absolutely wonderful. Thank you.

Wonderful news!

Larry, can you give it a rest??? I mean geez. The park is one block away. That is a connection. People do walk in and to parks right?

Union Station is irrelevant as a transit facility other than the House of COTPA.

Not knocking it, but just out of curiosity, why did 11th get chosen over 13th for the midtown portion? It would seem that it would cover about the same ground as the 10th street part of the route and 13th would be closer to Heritage Hills, Mesta Park, and the Edge. Granted its only a 2 block walk from 13th to 11th so it isn't that big of deal, just wondered though.

Not knocking it, but just out of curiosity, why did 11th get chosen over 13th for the midtown portion? It would seem that it would cover about the same ground as the 10th street part of the route and 13th would be closer to Heritage Hills, Mesta Park, and the Edge. Granted its only a 2 block walk from 13th to 11th so it isn't that big of deal, just wondered though.

cost ..

Great news indeed! Love to hear this! My question however is how does the hub even receive the grant, much less go forward with still so much in the air when it comes to the streetcar even receiving the green light (what with the counsels upcoming vote and the MAPS 3 lawsuit)? Is there a thought that the momentum the grant offers could force the counsels hand to give an overwhelming thumbs up later this month? This whole things should be a no brainer by now and actually gives me a headache even thinking there's still a level of uncertainty surrounding this project.

While this is great news for OKC - the projects funded in other cities are huge also. Not only are we making OKC a place worth caring about, but we are making cities and small towns across America worth caring about.

Here is a short video about Raleigh's new downtown rail hub that also received funding just to get an idea of what other cities are doing with their grant money.

Union Station: Raleigh's Multi-Modal Transit Center - The Official City of Raleigh Portal (http://www.raleighnc.gov/environment/content/PlanUrbanDesign/Articles/UnionStation.html)

SIM_6UPZYXc

Jeff, I just watched the video that Betts linked to. Absolutely wonderful. Thank you.


Thanks Doug!

Great news indeed! Love to hear this! My question however is how does the hub even receive the grant, much less go forward with still so much in the air when it comes to the streetcar even receiving the green light (what with the counsels upcoming vote and the MAPS 3 lawsuit)? Is there a thought that the momentum the grant offers could force the counsels hand to give an overwhelming thumbs up later this month? This whole things should be a no brainer by now and actually gives me a headache even thinking there's still a level of uncertainty surrounding this project.

We used to call that throwing the baby out with the bath water. Since its an old saying, clearly it's an old problem. But looking at the metaphor, there's no implication it's a smart thing to do.

Great news indeed! Love to hear this! My question however is how does the hub even receive the grant, much less go forward with still so much in the air when it comes to the streetcar even receiving the green light (what with the counsels upcoming vote and the MAPS 3 lawsuit)? Is there a thought that the momentum the grant offers could force the counsels hand to give an overwhelming thumbs up later this month? This whole things should be a no brainer by now and actually gives me a headache even thinking there's still a level of uncertainty surrounding this project.

So frustrating indeed. Please come to council on the 24th and point that out good Sir. And vote Mick.

More details about OKC's TIGER Grant.

https://sphotos-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1240393_10200471909135469_703216796_n.jpg

cost ..

Ah, I figured. Thanks.

In case anyone is wondering where that fact sheet came from, I was able to find the original on page 26 of http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/TIGER_2013_FactSheets_1.pdf.

This is great news! It would seem that the Feds would rather pay for an intermodal hub in Oklahoma City than a single form of transit. This is not an affirmation of the streetcar project by itself, but of the planning efforts to bring many modes of transit to a point of connectivity (the streetcar being one of them).

This is great news! It would seem that the Feds would rather pay for an intermodal hub in Oklahoma City than a single form of transit. This is not an affirmation of the streetcar project by itself, but of the planning efforts to bring many modes of transit to a point of connectivity (the streetcar being one of them).

with out the maps 3 street car .. we would not have gotten this grant ... maps 3 is where the matching funds came from ..