Technically you are no longer allowed to board/exit a bus anywhere you want, they changed it awhile back, must be at a designated stop. There are exceptions, such as recently when a driver missed that I pulled the cord and dropped me off right where we were.

Eliminating parking is a bad idea. In fact if they were gonna do that then should have been done up front and could have placed SC rails in those spots and not taken car lanes.

I think it is important to understand why streetcar tracks are directly adjacent to parallel parking in Automobile Alley and some other locations.

Traffic Engineers... and aesthetic concerns.

The Streetcar Subcommittee advocated for the pedestrian island stops with the streetcar track in the left-hand lane. This would provide a pedestrian refuge for those crossing the 80' wide Broadway Avenue and get the tracks away from operating parallel to parking areas.

Between the traffic engineers being afraid of center island stops and their effect on automobiles, the unwillingness of some involved in Auto Alley to disrupt the signature "medallions" (circular-patterned pavers at each intersection), and the unwillingness to narrow the street and shift parking to other locations, this is what you get.

If we want a truly hospitable environment for pedestrians and public transit initiatives it requires thinking completely differently and not being afraid to make big steps. The resulting layout is the result of compromise and attempting to manage public input with the traffic engineering department's way of thinking.

there also was a push back on having the solid line next to the Parallel parking a different color (like is done in other cities) this would go a long way in helping fix the problem

I hate the stamped circle things in Auto Alley. They don't even look nice, they just vibrate your car/bike/scooter to death. And that is in addition to the rest of the road being terrible quality.

That is just stupid. You can get out of a car or bus anywhere along a curb. Taxis and ubers let people out in the right lane all the time. But if you make a habit out of stranding people in the car for 45 minutes, nobody will ride it. If that ever happened to me I'd never get on it again. Its not like it is stopped in the middle of a busy highway, it is stopped in the right lane with an exit facing a curb or a parking lane in an area people walk all the time.

?? I don't understand this.

If you want rail, get used to having dedicated stops at platforms and/or stations ONLY. This is true for every type of rail be it Trolley, Streetcar/Tram, Monorail, Light Rail, Metro, Commuter Rail, Intercity Rail or High-Speed Rail. Even BUS RAPID TRANSIT has dedicated stops at platforms (you wont be getting on/off elsewhere). ...

You can not just jump on/off a train when you feel like it - makes sense, right?

The streetcar is so much faster and a much more enjoyable ride now as compared to a couple of weeks ago thanks to signal prioritization, not stopping at all stops, and aggressive driving. I was so pleased when I rode on Saturday!

Over $3 million approved today by the OKC Council for the remaining signals, spare parts, and a wheel trueing machine.

Over $3 million approved today by the OKC Council for the remaining signals, spare parts, and a wheel trueing machine.

Yay, a clue, they finally got one....

Lol. The question really is now how fast they will implement them. My guess is 2 - 3 months for the most problematic ones. The maps process is 6 weeks at the fastest. The City Manager can expedite it and we can pay Public Works back. But I believe we have met the threshold with the current improvements and will have to go back out to bid. With the weather bad, ridership is visibly down. Hopefully this can be quickly improved with the signals on Hudson and also 10th happening first. The lane changes also need to be implemented on Sheridan in Bricktown.

Maybe I misread but a month or so ago all we needed was around $450,000 or so for all the light prioritization. So how did we increase to $3,000,000?

Is there a breakdown of all these costs the public can see? This seems a bit bait and switch to me but again, maybe there is more to this I am not aware of.

I would think the light issue and any other maintenance needs would be seperate line items.

$3,000,000 is a lot of money after the fact of spending over $170m already.

Guess you missed the reference to spare parts and a wheel-trueing machine. We are going to buy quite a few parts. And also $140 million. Not $170.

Guess you missed the reference to spare parts and a wheel-trueing machine. We are going to buy quite a few parts. And also $140 million. Not $170.
Are the streetcar wheels equipped with flange lubricators? If not, they should be as that will reduce the wear on the flanges going in to the curves.

I rode twice this week inbound into Downtown, and yes, it is moving much quicker down Robinson. But one other thing I noticed is that the streetcars are stopping at every stop, regardless of whether that anyone pushed the button or if anyone is waiting. In January when last I rode, the streetcars go on past any stop where no one had requested a stop and there was no one waiting. This week it stopped at every stop for about 30 seconds, even though zero of them were needed stops. This negated much of the gains of the streetlight optimization.

Any color on this?

Guess you missed the reference to spare parts and a wheel-trueing machine. We are going to buy quite a few parts. And also $140 million. Not $170.

Maybe you don’t have it but is there a breakdown of the $3m approved? Spare parts when its a brand new system and for the high cost should have warranties on the cars. I think we needed around $400k for the lights so where can I find a breakdown of the other $2.6 million expense?

I rode twice this week inbound into Downtown, and yes, it is moving much quicker down Robinson. But one other thing I noticed is that the streetcars are stopping at every stop, regardless of whether that anyone pushed the button or if anyone is waiting. In January when last I rode, the streetcars go on past any stop where no one had requested a stop and there was no one waiting. This week it stopped at every stop for about 30 seconds, even though zero of them were needed stops. This negated much of the gains of the streetlight optimization.

Any color on this?

Same for me - and we ride a lot. Hopefully it is only temporary!

Maybe you don’t have it but is there a breakdown of the $3m approved? Spare parts when its a brand new system and for the high cost should have warranties on the cars. I think we needed around $400k for the lights so where can I find a breakdown of the other $2.6 million expense?

The lights cost more than originally estimated base don the purchasing/labor completed on the first six. Warranties do not cover normal wear and accidents. An example would be that we felt that having extra catenary poles on hand in the event of collisions or storm damage made sense. They are custom made and are throughout our downtown in a variety of configurations. Eventually, something is bound to happen to one of them and replacement lead times can be up to six months. You can find the breakdown on any of the last City Council, MAPS 3 Board, or MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee Agendas. The matter is completed, however.

I rode twice this week inbound into Downtown, and yes, it is moving much quicker down Robinson. But one other thing I noticed is that the streetcars are stopping at every stop, regardless of whether that anyone pushed the button or if anyone is waiting. In January when last I rode, the streetcars go on past any stop where no one had requested a stop and there was no one waiting. This week it stopped at every stop for about 30 seconds, even though zero of them were needed stops. This negated much of the gains of the streetlight optimization.

Any color on this?

That should really only happen if we have a spacing and timing issue between cars. I'll ask and ride it today myself as well. One thing of note, they are hiring more operators due to the expanded service every Sunday. So operators are going through training and thus going through the full stop procedure at some stops as part of that training.

Some EMBARK reps read this thread. Operators, please take note of this feedback.

The lights cost more than originally estimated base don the purchasing/labor completed on the first six. Warranties do not cover normal wear and accidents. An example would be that we felt that having extra catenary poles on hand in the event of collisions or storm damage made sense. They are custom made and are throughout our downtown in a variety of configurations. Eventually, something is bound to happen to one of them and replacement lead times can be up to six months. You can find the breakdown on any of the last City Council, MAPS 3 Board, or MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee Agendas. The matter is completed, however.

I found this but its mostly vague without a parts breakdown. What is a new service vehicle, a pickup? It seems we should have insurance to cover accidents too. I can understand some parts but we are talking $2.5m of extra costs approved when its only been in service 4 months! If things are breaking at low useage levels that means this could turn into a major money pit.

What I don’t understand is all this fight to approve the lights ($450k) and then out of the blue an extra $2,500,000 is added on without discussion or warning. And if we bought this system without thinking about batteries (when its electric) thats a failure to plan ahead.

Here is what is listed at the meetings:

“There is approximately $20 million in excess collections and/or interest from the Oklahoma City Capital Improvement Sales Tax Fund. EMBARK has requested additional items including a wheel truing machine, vehicle spare parts, additional ticket vending machines, additional streetcar vehicle batteries, additional mainline spare parts, an additional service vehicle, spare overhead catenary system poles, and traffic signal prioritization.”

https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/2qtkpfylwkqu24b0n03vtwfj/434346403142019113648582.PDF

So where is a breakdown of the $2,500,000 added on besides just generalities? This seems like a money pit. Open for just over 3 months and added over $3,000,000 in spend. So at this rate its costing $1,000,000 a month extra over the $140,000,000 initial cost. And this is without labor or other regular costs.

All I heard and read is we needed the signals upgraded for $450,000 and then they snuck in an extra $2,500,000 in other costs. Seems a bit sketchy to me and as a taxpayer I need to address this with my councilman.

I found this but its mostly vague without a parts breakdown. What is a new service vehicle, a pickup? It seems we should have insurance to cover accidents too. I can understand some parts but we are talking $2.5m of extra costs approved when its only been in service 4 months! If things are breaking at low useage levels that means this could turn into a major money pit.

What I don’t understand is all this fight to approve the lights ($450k) and then out of the blue an extra $2,500,000 is added on without discussion or warning. And if we bought this system without thinking about batteries (when its electric) thats a failure to plan ahead.

Here is what is listed at the meetings:

“There is approximately $20 million in excess collections and/or interest from the Oklahoma City Capital Improvement Sales Tax Fund. EMBARK has requested additional items including a wheel truing machine, vehicle spare parts, additional ticket vending machines, additional streetcar vehicle batteries, additional mainline spare parts, an additional service vehicle, spare overhead catenary system poles, and traffic signal prioritization.”

https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/2qtkpfylwkqu24b0n03vtwfj/434346403142019113648582.PDF

So where is a breakdown of the $2,500,000 added on besides just generalities? This seems like a money pit. Open for just over 3 months and added over $3,000,000 in spend. So at this rate its costing $1,000,000 a month extra over the $140,000,000 initial cost. And this is without labor or other regular costs.

All I heard and read is we needed the signals upgraded for $450,000 and then they snuck in an extra $2,500,000 in other costs. Seems a bit sketchy to me and as a taxpayer I need to address this with my councilman.

the timing is because just now is when the maps 3 surpless funds are starting to be given out to the various projects ..

I found this but its mostly vague without a parts breakdown. What is a new service vehicle, a pickup? It seems we should have insurance to cover accidents too. I can understand some parts but we are talking $2.5m of extra costs approved when its only been in service 4 months! If things are breaking at low useage levels that means this could turn into a major money pit.

What I don’t understand is all this fight to approve the lights ($450k) and then out of the blue an extra $2,500,000 is added on without discussion or warning. And if we bought this system without thinking about batteries (when its electric) thats a failure to plan ahead.

Here is what is listed at the meetings:

“There is approximately $20 million in excess collections and/or interest from the Oklahoma City Capital Improvement Sales Tax Fund. EMBARK has requested additional items including a wheel truing machine, vehicle spare parts, additional ticket vending machines, additional streetcar vehicle batteries, additional mainline spare parts, an additional service vehicle, spare overhead catenary system poles, and traffic signal prioritization.”

https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/2qtkpfylwkqu24b0n03vtwfj/434346403142019113648582.PDF

So where is a breakdown of the $2,500,000 added on besides just generalities? This seems like a money pit. Open for just over 3 months and added over $3,000,000 in spend. So at this rate its costing $1,000,000 a month extra over the $140,000,000 initial cost. And this is without labor or other regular costs.

All I heard and read is we needed the signals upgraded for $450,000 and then they snuck in an extra $2,500,000 in other costs. Seems a bit sketchy to me and as a taxpayer I need to address this with my councilman.

While I understand where you're coming from, the idea with spare parts is to ensure high availability of service. That allows maintenance techs to quickly repair a streetcar vehicle when a problem does arise and get it back on the route without having to wait for insurance, etc.

the timing is because just now is when the maps 3 surpless funds are starting to be given out to the various projects ..

Let's hope these surplus funds can be distributed in a way that it enhances projects that may have been underfunded or quickly added something unforeseen to the project.

Get the streetcar rolling in the right direction; signal prioritization.

We all realize the convention center wasn't among the most favorable projects; but as many of us have gone to other cities and seen their facilities--OKC needed to replace the Cox CC.

Still love the idea Plutonic Panda mentioned about a $100 million endowment fund in MAPS IV; this could be the last item funded for repair-upgrades of aging MAPS projects.

While I understand where you're coming from, the idea with spare parts is to ensure high availability of service. That allows maintenance techs to quickly repair a streetcar vehicle when a problem does arise and get it back on the route without having to wait for insurance, etc.

Not directed at you but this is unnaceptable. If planners didn’t do due diligence and go visit/talk with other cities during the planning phase thats a failure.

If we are buying $140,000,000 worth of streetcar we need to see what good and bad other cities had/learned. Someone should have known we need spare parts to include in initial funding. Now it has the appearance of lowballng initial costs to make it seem cheaper to help get it passed knowing (forcing) that costs can be added on “after the fact” underneath peoples noses.

This SC is a major expense for OKC and now it seems no proper planning concerning “operational needs” were addressed up front. I can’t accept that only 3 months into operations we “discover” all these needs. And then “no list” of what the $2,500,00” is other than generic. This seems like a scam to me and I assure everyone I will take up with my councilman.

There is zero excuse for this massive of outlay 3 months after start.

And spare parts lol. We got ripped off if we need spare parts for brand spanking new street cars. How many of you buy spare parts for your brand new car or truck. Someone is not good at negotiations to need spare parts this fast, and sneak it in the bill with lights prioritization.

I am upset and the person earlier who was at meeting gave me a snide answer without the breakdown I asked about, telling me to go look it up myself. Thats not the attitude of someone I want to represent me.

This SC so far is an underused moneypit with money continuing to be dumped into it. If poles are so important why is this the very first we heard about needing “spares”? Where is the up front planning?

Not directed at you but this is unnaceptable. If planners didn’t do due diligence and go visit/talk with other cities during the planning phase thats a failure.

If we are buying $140,000,000 worth of streetcar we need to see what good and bad other cities had/learned. Someone should have known we need spare parts to include in initial funding. Now it has the appearance of lowballng initial costs to make it seem cheaper to help get it passed knowing (forcing) that costs can be added on “after the fact” underneath peoples noses.

This SC is a major expense for OKC and now it seems no proper planning concerning “operational needs” were addressed up front. I can’t accept that only 3 months into operations we “discover” all these needs. And then “no list” of what the $2,500,00” is other than generic. This seems like a scam to me and I assure everyone I will take up with my councilman.

There is zero excuse for this massive of outlay 3 months after start.

And spare parts lol. We got ripped off if we need spare parts for brand spanking new street cars. How many of you buy spare parts for your brand new car or truck. Someone is not good at negotiations to need spare parts this fast, and sneak it in the bill with lights prioritization.

I am upset and the person earlier who was at meeting gave me a snide answer without the breakdown I asked about, telling me to go look it up myself. Thats not the attitude of someone I want to represent me.

This SC so far is an underused moneypit with money continuing to be dumped into it. If poles are so important why is this the very first we heard about needing “spares”? Where is the up front planning?

I speak as a 30 yr Logistics Manager for Major DoD and Homeland Security acquisition projects. You are absolutely wrong with the position that buying spare parts at system start is not good negotiation. It is cost effective to buy spare parts up front in an acquisition as you have calculated system and component reliability data that drives the maintenance schedule. Buying in bulk offers cost efficiencies for spare parts procurement and increases turn around times (TOT) thereby increasing the system overall operational availability (Ao).You can google what that is.

[/B]

I speak as a 30 yr Logistics Manager for Major DoD and Homeland Security acquisition projects. You are absolutely wrong with the position that buying spare parts at system start is not good negotiation. It is cost effective to buy spare parts up front in an acquisition as you have calculated system and component reliability data that drives the maintenance schedule. Buying in bulk offers cost efficiencies for spare parts procurement and increases turn around times (TOT) thereby increasing the system overall operational availability (Ao).You can google what that is.

You agree with me then. Why didn’t they buy these up front? Why snuck in afterwards?

Thanks for agreeing and I too have credentials as good or better than yours. This is unnaceptable not planning ahead!

I think it's interesting you're claiming similar credentials without laying out what those credentials are.

I think it's interesting you're claiming similar credentials without laying out what those credentials are.

Not on a public forum where I can be I’d. Too many weirdos. But agakn, glad you agreed with me.

I didn't agree.

And downtown circulator streetcars like ours don't exist all over the place, so you can expect that the folks representing OKC's interests in this are learning the systems as they go along. You can't expect perfect implementation of new systems. From what I've seen, progress is being made, relationships are being formed and policies are slowly being put together. There's very much a want on the city's part to learn from mistakes.

Hen pecking city officials who are doing the best job they can on a forum seems a little pointless. If you can do a better job, submit your resume.

Are people still riding it? How are the numbers? I see many after the Thunder games but empty around 5 pm.

Not on a public forum where I can be I’d. Too many weirdos.

FYI: I've used my real name on this message board for years without a single problem. Not saying you should, but just pointing out that that's not been my experience. I've even met a bunch of these weirdos IRL and everyone was nice... including the people I disagree with regularly.

FYI: I've used my real name on this message board for years without a single problem. Not saying you should, but just pointing out that that's not been my experience. I've even met a bunch of these weirdos IRL and everyone was nice... including the people I disagree with regularly.

I was gonna make a similar comment. And even for some of the folks who use a nom de plume as their user name, lots of people know who they are.

FYI: I've used my real name on this message board for years without a single problem. Not saying you should, but just pointing out that that's not been my experience. I've even met a bunch of these weirdos IRL and everyone was nice... including the people I disagree with regularly.

I love how a few diverted the topic from excess SC costs to me not disclosing what I do or where I live within the city. Good thread hijack that happens a lot here I guess only inner circle folks can ask tough questions about our tax dollars.

Now, about the $2,500,000 pork added in...

?? I don't understand this.

If you want rail, get used to having dedicated stops at platforms and/or stations ONLY. This is true for every type of rail be it Trolley, Streetcar/Tram, Monorail, Light Rail, Metro, Commuter Rail, Intercity Rail or High-Speed Rail. Even BUS RAPID TRANSIT has dedicated stops at platforms (you wont be getting on/off elsewhere). ...

You can not just jump on/off a train when you feel like it - makes sense, right?

Then they shouldn't leave the stop without knowing the next track block is clear. It is stupid to make people stay on a stopped street car for nearly an hour when there is zero danger in letting them out. Especially if it is a frequent event. It isn't at all the same as a normal rail or monorail (are you seriously comparing getting out of the street car to getting out of a monorail? Seriously?). Please provide any logic for how it would be dangerous to let people off outside of a station when stopped for a long period of time.

But if people start missing things because they are stopped in the streetcar, no one will ride it.

Every piece of industrial equipment I've ever been involved with has included a list of recommended spare parts. Are these part purchases above and beyond the OEM's recommended list, or are we just now getting the basic start up set of parts?

Every piece of industrial equipment I've ever been involved with has included a list of recommended spare parts. Are these part purchases above and beyond the OEM's recommended list, or are we just now getting the basic start up set of parts?

Thank you for addressing this. My take is for the cost we should have either been given these as part of initial purchase or street cars have some type of warranty period.

I feel we got hoodwinked or someone didn’t do enough up front investigating other cities running costs. If another city tells us they had to buy $2,500,000 in parts 3 months after go live date we should have pressed the issue with SC manufacturer. Either include all these parts with an approved deal or warranty all parts for x time.

And had we researched with another city and if we knew we had to spend this much more, that cost should have been included in original bill.

It seems as if we intentionally left this out of original bill to make SC seem cheaper to get more votes. Then on backside sneak in all these extra costs underneath voters noses.

My next question is when will the next big parts buy happen? At what point do people realize it might be an endless moneypit?

There is zero reason taxpayers should need to spend $2,500,000 on parts 3 months in. Someone who negotiated the original deal needs fired. I am really upset about this and the board insiders act like no big deal and mock me for even broaching the topic.

I love how a few diverted the topic from excess SC costs to me not disclosing what I do or where I live within the city. Good thread hijack that happens a lot here I guess only inner circle folks can ask tough questions about our tax dollars.

Dude. Lighten up.

Thank you for addressing this. My take is for the cost we should have either been given these as part of initial purchase or street cars have some type of warranty period.

I feel we got hoodwinked or someone didn’t do enough up front investigating other cities running costs. If another city tells us they had to buy $2,500,000 in parts 3 months after go live date we should have pressed the issue with SC manufacturer. Either include all these parts with an approved deal or warranty all parts for x time.

And had we researched with another city and if we knew we had to spend this much more, that cost should have been included in original bill.

It seems as if we intentionally left this out of original bill to make SC seem cheaper to get more votes. Then on backside sneak in all these extra costs underneath voters noses.

My next question is when will the next big parts buy happen? At what point do people realize it might be an endless moneypit?

There is zero reason taxpayers should need to spend $2,500,000 on parts 3 months in. Someone who negotiated the original deal needs fired. I am really upset about this and the board insiders act like no big deal and mock me for even broaching the topic.

The city did not act to hide the information about the streetcar from the public. If you really want to know all the details you need to do your research of the public records. The MAPS3 citizen committees and sub committees have been meeting monthly for about nine years and all of this stuff has been covered. If you want to know, you can. But you have to pay attention. The agendas are published and the meetings are open to the public. Citizens are even given the opportunity to speak at the meetings. Some of the meetings are even broadcast on cable and the internet and are available for later viewing. The minutes from the meetings are also available. It seems that you have decided that the streetcar is a bad idea and only want to foster negative attitudes regarding it. If it seems like people on this board are acting like it is no big deal it is probably because most of them began considering the costs and benefits of the streetcar ten years ago. The vote for MAPS3 was in 2009. At that time all of the projects costs were estimates. The why and what of the additional $2.5 million is covered in the meetings of the streetcar sub-committee, the MAPS3 citizens oversight committee, and the city council going back to at least last summer when it became apparent that the MAPS3 tax would have excess funds.

The city did not act to hide the information about the streetcar from the public. If you really want to know all the details you need to do your research of the public records. The MAPS3 citizen committees and sub committees have been meeting monthly for about nine years and all of this stuff has been covered. If you want to know, you can. But you have to pay attention. The agendas are published and the meetings are open to the public. Citizens are even given the opportunity to speak at the meetings. Some of the meetings are even broadcast on cable and the internet and are available for later viewing. The minutes from the meetings are also available. It seems that you have decided that the streetcar is a bad idea and only want to foster negative attitudes regarding it. If it seems like people on this board are acting like it is no big deal it is probably because most of them began considering the costs and benefits of the streetcar ten years ago. The vote for MAPS3 was in 2009. At that time all of the projects costs were estimates. The why and what of the additional $2.5 million is covered in the meetings of the streetcar sub-committee, the MAPS3 citizens oversight committee, and the city council going back to at least last summer when it became apparent that the MAPS3 tax would have excess funds.
Another rational, informed voice... thank you for spelling this out for those who thoughtlessly opine without really knowing the facts.

The city did not act to hide the information about the streetcar from the public. If you really want to know all the details you need to do your research of the public records. The MAPS3 citizen committees and sub committees have been meeting monthly for about nine years and all of this stuff has been covered. If you want to know, you can. But you have to pay attention. The agendas are published and the meetings are open to the public. Citizens are even given the opportunity to speak at the meetings. Some of the meetings are even broadcast on cable and the internet and are available for later viewing. The minutes from the meetings are also available. It seems that you have decided that the streetcar is a bad idea and only want to foster negative attitudes regarding it. If it seems like people on this board are acting like it is no big deal it is probably because most of them began considering the costs and benefits of the streetcar ten years ago. The vote for MAPS3 was in 2009. At that time all of the projects costs were estimates. The why and what of the additional $2.5 million is covered in the meetings of the streetcar sub-committee, the MAPS3 citizens oversight committee, and the city council going back to at least last summer when it became apparent that the MAPS3 tax would have excess funds.

Thats a lot of words yet still did not answer the question. I posted the minutes related to the SC and they are not in detail. And again, this is costs in the 3rd go live month.

I will be contacting my councilman to ask him. I thought I could get an answer here but all I get is deflection and trying to justify without answering.

Thanks for the rational voices out there. Yes, we did receive a certain amount of OEM parts that was built into the streetcar vehicle purchases.

The general consensus is that you always want as many spare parts as possible available in your inventory while a current model of a vehicle is being produced. That helps keep annual costs down longterm for the agency operating the system.

Our Subcommitteee, Oversight Board, and City Council have acted cautiously and judiciously to not spend money that we don't have. There has always been a general awareness that there was a desire for more spare parts and other items to make the system's operation better and to keep longterm costs lower. Since MAPS is a pay-as-you-go program, we waited until our main contract was completed and all construction costs expended before making these decisions.

And FWIW, our original desire was around $6.5 million and we whittled that down in the spirit of compromise with the other committees who had requests to improve their project completion as well.

The Wheel Trueing machine is a great example of a singular expensive part. We can ship our wheels out of the state to get them machined, however, the surplus allowed us to buy one. This move will help reduce EMBARK's longterm streetcar costs.

I'm not going out of my way to pull agendas for people who clearly simply want to denigrate the project. This sentiment particularly regarding items that have already been through the public's democratic process and been approved by all three public bodies.

Thanks for the rational voices out there. Yes, we did receive a certain amount of OEM parts that was built into the streetcar vehicle purchases.

The general consensus is that you always want as many spare parts as possible available in your inventory while a current model of a vehicle is being produced. That helps keep annual costs down longterm for the agency operating the system.

Our Subcommitteee, Oversight Board, and City Council have acted cautiously and judiciously to not spend money that we don't have. There has always been a general awareness that there was a desire for more spare parts and other items to make the system's operation better and to keep longterm costs lower. Since MAPS is a pay-as-you-go program, we waited until our main contract was completed and all construction costs expended before making these decisions.

And FWIW, our original desire was around $6.5 million and we whittled that down in the spirit of compromise with the other committees who had requests to improve their project completion as well.

The Wheel Trueing machine is a great example of a singular expensive part. We can ship our wheels out of the state to get them machined, however, the surplus allowed us to buy one. This move will help reduce EMBARK's longterm streetcar costs.

I'm not going out of my way to pull agendas for people who clearly simply want to denigrate the project. This sentiment particularly regarding items that have already been through the public's democratic process and been approved by all three public bodies.

Yes! this is called reducing maintenance turn around time and decreasing Life Cycle Costs. Bravo!

Thank you DC. The other reason that you won’t find too many line items is because the budget is based on an estimate. As part of the competitive bidding process, you don’t want to expose your hand by publishing what you think every part is worth. This allows us to put each item out to bid and get the best price we can. That doesn’t apply to the OEM parts, but it does for everything else. We are also trying to develop a parts consortium with other cities as well to keep costs low and retain a fluid environment where these specialty items are more readily accessible without having to wait for them to be manufactured.

Thank you DC. The other reason that you won’t find too many line items is because the budget is based on an estimate. As part of the competitive bidding process, you don’t want to expose your hand by publishing what you think every part is worth. This allows us to put each item out to bid and get the best price we can. That doesn’t apply to the OEM parts, but it does for everything else. We are also trying to develop a parts consortium with other cities as well to keep costs low and retain a fluid environment where these specialty items are more readily accessible without having to wait for them to be manufactured.

Not that I know it all, however, based on my experience and what you describe, I am confident the city is approaching this issue properly. Keep up the great work.

Are people still riding it? How are the numbers? I see many after the Thunder games but empty around 5 pm.

I ride it almost every day and have noticed that on nice weather days almost all the streetcars I see throughout the day have people on them. On Wednesday, I was on three cars with tenish or more other people.

I ride it almost every day and have noticed that on nice weather days almost all the streetcars I see throughout the day have people on them. On Wednesday, I was on three cars with tenish or more other people.

this seems to be my observation as well... on nice days i see people on them, when the weather is bad (when i thought they would get the most use) they seem rather empty. but i consistently see people using them

I simply saw it as we fulfilled what we needed up front but had a wish list if there were surplus funds at the end of the project. as it turns out when those numbers rolled in then we fulfilled that wish list of parts. seems smart to me and not some sort of conspiracy.

Thank you DC. The other reason that you won’t find too many line items is because the budget is based on an estimate. As part of the competitive bidding process, you don’t want to expose your hand by publishing what you think every part is worth. This allows us to put each item out to bid and get the best price we can. That doesn’t apply to the OEM parts, but it does for everything else. We are also trying to develop a parts consortium with other cities as well to keep costs low and retain a fluid environment where these specialty items are more readily accessible without having to wait for them to be manufactured.

This still makes no sense

Why weren’t parts part of initial contract?

And why no warranty if we are buying parts in 3rd month

And if parts are failing why so fast (thinking long term)?

If parts were needed and known why not added up front?

If we do have warranty what are parts for?

If no warranty we got ripped off

^^you should enjoy the nice day, have a beer or two, and take a relaxing streetcar ride around town. Might do you good

Dude this is a multi million dollar system. Not a Ford Fiesta you pile your kids in to go to White water Bay. Parts on hand is a huge deal, and it’s not always included in service contracts or warranties. United purchases and stores up to 10,000 different part numbers on hand per fleet type. We likely have a hundred thousand spare parts on hand that United owns at any given time. Why do we do this? So when your hydraulic pump pressure seal fails we can get a brand new or overhauled hydraulic pump installed and take only an hour delay. It costs money up front, but saves time and increases reliability. The alternative is to let the pump fail, cancel the flight while a new pump gets sent from Seattle and get it installed the next day. Oh, Boeing also charges about 4x list price for a rushed part. What’s your problem with spare parts. Warranties only last so long, and consumables are never warranties on anything. Good luck getting your tires changed for free when they wear out.

I simply saw it as we fulfilled what we needed up front but had a wish list if there were surplus funds at the end of the project. as it turns out when those numbers rolled in then we fulfilled that wish list of parts. seems smart to me and not some sort of conspiracy.

So much this.

I simply saw it as we fulfilled what we needed up front but had a wish list if there were surplus funds at the end of the project. as it turns out when those numbers rolled in then we fulfilled that wish list of parts. seems smart to me and not some sort of conspiracy.

That is correct. We are also working to build a parts consortium with other interested cities. When the pantograph was damaged during training before the system opened, Dallas graciously sent us one of their spare parts. There is a certain number of parts that were basics that came with the vehicle order. We also thought we would see what Dallas, Milwaukee, Detroit, and others might order as well. That further informed what sorts of parts and quantities would be ideal to have sitting on a shelf somewhere. The poster is insinuating that parts are failing. As far as I am aware, we haven’t had any failures causing these recommendations. This is doing due diligence.

^^you should enjoy the nice day, have a beer or two, and take a relaxing streetcar ride around town. Might do you good

This was helpful

Dude this is a multi million dollar system. Not a Ford Fiesta you pile your kids in to go to White water Bay. Parts on hand is a huge deal, and it’s not always included in service contracts or warranties. United purchases and stores up to 10,000 different part numbers on hand per fleet type. We likely have a hundred thousand spare parts on hand that United owns at any given time. Why do we do this? So when your hydraulic pump pressure seal fails we can get a brand new or overhauled hydraulic pump installed and take only an hour delay. It costs money up front, but saves time and increases reliability. The alternative is to let the pump fail, cancel the flight while a new pump gets sent from Seattle and get it installed the next day. Oh, Boeing also charges about 4x list price for a rushed part. What’s your problem with spare parts. Warranties only last so long, and consumables are never warranties on anything. Good luck getting your tires changed for free when they wear out.

You went from Ford car to worldwide airline lol.

SC is not a worldwide people mover it covers a bot over a square mile. Quite the stretch lolol.

Don’t we have spare SC? I believe we have 6 or 7 and run 5? If so we have no need for operations like an airline in business to make money. We can simply swap out cars.

I am not saying we don’t need parts but this soon into it and we spend $2,500,00 in parts. If its that unreliable to require so much not under warranty we can expect numerous breakdowns or don’t need all these spares. One of these is true.

I would equate it more inline with a bus. And there are normal wear and tear items but the amount of expense this early is not good.

The one poster said keeping it private to be competitive lol. There is only one manufacturer of this model/type of streetcar so no other business is going to bid. I would assume all spares have to come from the original manufacturer else any warranty we do have would be voided.

This is not an worldwide airline so no need to be so dramatic

About spare parts this was addressed and authorized a few years ago so why are we buying more?

From 2017:

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 5 to the Contract was approved on May 2, 2017, to purchase additional spare parts and revise the CCTV system to digital technology; and

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 6 to the Contract was approved on November 21, 2017, to authorize the redesign of the pantograph and production of large format color boards;

WARRANTIES
The Vendor shall provide a two (2) year warranty on each Car including all systems, parts and components, referred to as the Total Car Warranty. This Warranty shall apply to each car independently and is effective for two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance. During the Warranty Period, Vendor agrees to provide warranty management services as described in Section 7.7.
The Vendor shall also provide the following additional warranties:
A. Ten (10) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, for each car shell, including under frame, side walls, roof and support brackets, truck frame, axles, floor panels and structure and exterior panels.
B. Four (4) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on the gear units, couplings, traction motors, and propulsion equipment (excluding invertors) and paint.
C. Two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on Car batteries.
D. Two (2) years after installation, but not more than three (3) years after delivery for spare parts.
E. Two (2) years after delivery for special tools and test equipment.
Any warranty from a subcontractor or supplier to the Vendor exceeding the periods described herein shall be extended to the City for the same period of time as given to the Vendor.


https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/vi14jn45utnzud45x3trp155/396650203152019031323217.PDF

About spare parts this was addressed and authorized a few years ago so why are we buying more?

From 2017:

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 5 to the Contract was approved on May 2, 2017, to purchase additional spare parts and revise the CCTV system to digital technology; and

WHEREAS, Amendment No. 6 to the Contract was approved on November 21, 2017, to authorize the redesign of the pantograph and production of large format color boards;

WARRANTIES
The Vendor shall provide a two (2) year warranty on each Car including all systems, parts and components, referred to as the Total Car Warranty. This Warranty shall apply to each car independently and is effective for two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance. During the Warranty Period, Vendor agrees to provide warranty management services as described in Section 7.7.
The Vendor shall also provide the following additional warranties:
A. Ten (10) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, for each car shell, including under frame, side walls, roof and support brackets, truck frame, axles, floor panels and structure and exterior panels.
B. Four (4) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on the gear units, couplings, traction motors, and propulsion equipment (excluding invertors) and paint.
C. Two (2) years beginning thirty (30) days after Conditional Acceptance, on Car batteries.
D. Two (2) years after installation, but not more than three (3) years after delivery for spare parts.
E. Two (2) years after delivery for special tools and test equipment.
Any warranty from a subcontractor or supplier to the Vendor exceeding the periods described herein shall be extended to the City for the same period of time as given to the Vendor.


https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/cache/2/vi14jn45utnzud45x3trp155/396650203152019031323217.PDF

Warranties run out, and parts can wear out/be damaged in ways that aren't covered by the warranty. Think collisions, accidents, vandalism, etc - not to mention consumable items like the carbon contact pads on the top of the pantograph, among others. And keep in mind that with collections above the original budget, this was an ask to help provide additional spares in stock for when they are needed. Many of these parts may not be used until well after the warranty expires - but buying them now with surplus MAPS3 funds will save the City money in the future; they won't have to pay the premiums for getting the manufacturer to rush them a replacement. This ask for additional spares is really, truly, honestly, a non-issue.

Warranties run out, and parts can wear out/be damaged in ways that aren't covered by the warranty. Think collisions, accidents, vandalism, etc - not to mention consumable items like the carbon contact pads on the top of the pantograph, among others. And keep in mind that with collections above the original budget, this was an ask to help provide additional spares in stock for when they are needed. Many of these parts may not be used until well after the warranty expires - but buying them now with surplus MAPS3 funds will save the City money in the future; they won't have to pay the premiums for getting the manufacturer to rush them a replacement. This ask for additional spares is really, truly, honestly, a non-issue.

You say its a non issue yet $2,500,000 is not chump change. You claim we save money and yet you nor anyone knows this its pure speculation. I can speculate we have very few peoblems and thus all that money is wasted sitting on a shelf not used and then comes up missing later on when needed. No one knows for certain what will break down, or it may be a same part breaks more often and we only got 1. And other parts may break and we got zero of that one. You brush it off as no big deal but not me. Its my tax dollars too.

The warranty is pretty extensive and lengthy. So we are buying parts for years down the road when we may not need them? If we added $100k in extra parts on top of warranted parts thats not quite the leap. But $2,500,000 is.

Someone said we bought a battery. Ours are warranted for at least 2 years. Battery technology changes fast too and the spare may not be as good as what we can buy in 2 years.

My main complaint is the focus was in getting street light systems purchased and some here were even livid it wasn’t approved all at once a month or two ago. So now its addressed yet this $2,500,00 was snuck into the same approval meeting. There was no outcry nor demand for needing $2,500,000 in spares. Just because there is Maps money does not mean its a wise spend. This SC seems like its gonna be a money pit.

We have a warranty and it covers everything plus we got and paid for spares already. Thats why I have addressed this with my councilman and am awaiting his reply. To spend tax money without an urgent need is not wise. This topic needed more open discussion beforehand.

I’ll let the board know anything significant he replies with. But a new system with over 2 years bumper to bumper warranty should not need $2,500,000 in extra parts requests cost. This is how you lose public support for future MAPS projects.

You say its a non issue yet $2,500,000 is not chump change. You claim we save money and yet you nor anyone knows this its pure speculation. I can speculate we have very few peoblems and thus all that money is wasted sitting on a shelf not used and then comes up missing later on when needed. No one knows for certain what will break down, or it may be a same part breaks more often and we only got 1. And other parts may break and we got zero of that one. You brush it off as no big deal but not me. Its my tax dollars too.

The warranty is pretty extensive and lengthy. So we are buying parts for years down the road when we may not need them? If we added $100k in extra parts on top of warranted parts thats not quite the leap. But $2,500,000 is.

Someone said we bought a battery. Ours are warranted for at least 2 years. Battery technology changes fast too and the spare may not be as good as what we can buy in 2 years.

My main complaint is the focus was in getting street light systems purchased and some here were even livid it wasn’t approved all at once a month or two ago. So now its addressed yet this $2,500,00 was snuck into the same approval meeting. There was no outcry nor demand for needing $2,500,000 in spares. Just because there is Maps money does not mean its a wise spend. This SC seems like its gonna be a money pit.

We have a warranty and it covers everything plus we got and paid for spares already. Thats why I have addressed this with my councilman and am awaiting his reply. To spend tax money without an urgent need is not wise. This topic needed more open discussion beforehand.

I’ll let the board know anything significant he replies with. But a new system with over 2 years bumper to bumper warranty should not need $2,500,000 in extra parts requests cost. This is how you lose public support for future MAPS projects.

I'm not involved with the Streetcar in any way, shape, or fashion, but I'm following the logic that's been laid out by Urban Pioneer and others here, and what they've said makes perfect sense to me. You keep stressing the warranty, but bumper-to-bumper warranties do NOT cover things like collisions, vandalism, acts of God, improper installation or maintenance, etc. There *will* be repairs needed that don't fall under the terms of the warranty. That's not speculation, that's a fact. The Streetcar has already been in one collision with a car that I am aware of. And it's also important to note that parts are a tangible good. If EMBARK finds that certain spares have been over-ordered or were unnecessary, that investment can be recovered by selling the parts to other transit agencies or sold as surplus property on the open market. These additional parts should be thought of as insurance, to ensure that things can be quickly fixed if and when they break.

Compared to the rest of the budget for the Streetcar, $2.5 MM really isn't much. The Streetcar's budget alone was $135 MM; this additional cost for spares, maintenance equipment, and a support vehicle amounts to 1.8% of that budget - and just three tenths of one percent of the original MAPS3 overall budget ($777 MM). And excess collections for MAPS3 can only be spent on MAPS3 projects, so it's not like the City is spending money it doesn't have, or spending money out of the general budget.

I believe there have been two accidents with the streetcar now. The one at 10th/Walker and the one at 6th/Broadway.

I'm not involved with the Streetcar in any way, shape, or fashion, but I'm following the logic that's been laid out by Urban Pioneer and others here, and what they've said makes perfect sense to me. You keep stressing the warranty, but bumper-to-bumper warranties do NOT cover things like collisions, vandalism, acts of God, improper installation or maintenance, etc. There *will* be repairs needed that don't fall under the terms of the warranty. That's not speculation, that's a fact. The Streetcar has already been in one collision with a car that I am aware of. And it's also important to note that parts are a tangible good. If EMBARK finds that certain spares have been over-ordered or were unnecessary, that investment can be recovered by selling the parts to other transit agencies or sold as surplus property on the open market. These additional parts should be thought of as insurance, to ensure that things can be quickly fixed if and when they break.

Compared to the rest of the budget for the Streetcar, $2.5 MM really isn't much. The Streetcar's budget alone was $135 MM; this additional cost for spares, maintenance equipment, and a support vehicle amounts to 1.8% of that budget - and just three tenths of one percent of the original MAPS3 overall budget ($777 MM). And excess collections for MAPS3 can only be spent on MAPS3 projects, so it's not like the City is spending money it doesn't have, or spending money out of the general budget.

City has insurance and lawyers to claim if others fault. Again, spare parts for something you have no idea what will need repaired. How do you know what type of collision will happen and thus the exact spare parts needed? You are only sticking up for the project as I am finding its a gang mentality here full of specualtion.

$2,500,000 is a lot of money and some are trying to downplay it as nothing. Thats the problem when you spend other peoples money it seems like a bottemless pit. And its exactly why I question the spare parts. No one yet has given a logocal reason for this big of expense based on how much is covered by warranty or insurance. Most are speculating this why I reached out to my councilman to get the real answers and express my dismay at this early expense.

Going forward quite a few people will start to question the dollars listed on MAPS 4 based on this extra early expense for SC.

The real worry is in 2-4 years when things really do start to break and how much money we spend then. If $2,500,000 is nothing to you at what point is it? $20,000,000? This is why I will not support any SC expansion until we truly see all the costs of operating over time. Every dollar spent on SC is less for the other needs we have.

Imagine how much we could improve bus service if we threw $2,500,000 at it.

I can see this is a tough topic and plenty run to defend SC as soon as me or anyone questions it. All of my concerns are legit and thus why I still do not see the need to spend that much money on spare parts only 3 months into start date when we have warranties and already paid for spares. And I see how some downplay the extra expense as if its play money.

I give up, no more. Like DCSooner, working for the govt in logistics, nothing here seems out of place. As Catch has noted with United, and UP explicitly explained, this is pretty routine.

Thanks for the rational voices out there. Yes, we did receive a certain amount of OEM parts that was built into the streetcar vehicle purchases.

The general consensus is that you always want as many spare parts as possible available in your inventory while a current model of a vehicle is being produced. That helps keep annual costs down longterm for the agency operating the system.

Our Subcommitteee, Oversight Board, and City Council have acted cautiously and judiciously to not spend money that we don't have. There has always been a general awareness that there was a desire for more spare parts and other items to make the system's operation better and to keep longterm costs lower. Since MAPS is a pay-as-you-go program, we waited until our main contract was completed and all construction costs expended before making these decisions.

And FWIW, our original desire was around $6.5 million and we whittled that down in the spirit of compromise with the other committees who had requests to improve their project completion as well.

The Wheel Trueing machine is a great example of a singular expensive part. We can ship our wheels out of the state to get them machined, however, the surplus allowed us to buy one. This move will help reduce EMBARK's longterm streetcar costs.

I'm not going out of my way to pull agendas for people who clearly simply want to denigrate the project. This sentiment particularly regarding items that have already been through the public's democratic process and been approved by all three public bodies.

Thank you for the information. This sounds like a very good idea to me. Streetcars have very low production quantities (compared to many other industrial or consumer products) which means once they go out of production getting spare parts gets hard and much more expensive. Eventually companies get rid of tooling, companies go out of business and get bought.

Getting your own tooling also allows you to keep less spare parts, because if you can true a wheel in a few days and get it back on the shelf vs sending it off and it being out for a month, you've effectively increased the availability of each part.

Having spare parts in inventory also massively increases the availability of the streetcars, because many of these parts probably have 6 month lead times while still in production and could be a year or more after production ends. If you are waiting on parts, the street cars is seating in the barn instead of doing its job.

This still makes no sense

Why weren’t parts part of initial contract?

And why no warranty if we are buying parts in 3rd month

And if parts are failing why so fast (thinking long term)?

If parts were needed and known why not added up front?

If we do have warranty what are parts for?

If no warranty we got ripped off

The parts aren't for immediate use but to help maintain the system for years into the future. The parts will be the cheapest and most available today while our specific cars are still in production. It will also allow us to have much higher availability of the cars when we can fix them immediately as opposed to waiting on parts when something does go wrong.

When airlines buy a new type of aircraft, the OEM gives them a list of the minimum recommend spare parts to keep on hand, most airlines buy above and beyond this list as well. The initial set of spare parts and tooling can end up costing as much as a whole airplane. Having the big stock of parts keeps the plane flying as opposed to sitting on the ground, even though some of them may only be used once every 10 years or more.