No idea what ridership numbers actually are. I see the Streetcars all day long out my window and during the weekdays they range from empty to very few people. But, it's been pointed out to me that apparently the streetcars are not for the people who actually work downtown all day every day. So, maybe what I'm seeing is to be expected.

I think they are for you (downtown workers I’ve been told) but the design was flawed. A circular takes too long to be useful to most downtown workers, but is fine for tourists. Once OMNI and Convention open up then riders will too. Thats why I am against taking away parking spots because I think downtown business was hurt enough already from SC construction. Its not the cars nor business fault this design was flawed. I think ridership numbers will prove that to be true.

My idea woulda been straight north/south and east/west routes with no turns. That aleviates the left turn problem and can go back and forth faster. Then expansion would be easier too if approved or warranted. We already had to spend extra on lights now some are pushing to take out car parking in front of businesses. I want no more spent on SC until it proves itself over a few years. We had streetcars in our past eventually taken down so I want to move cautiously dumping more money in it.

Anyone still riding this? I don't get downtown much mainly Thunder games but when I am it's looking pretty empty to me.

I used it a few times each week in February. I've run into mostly folks going from other parts of town to the bus terminal. I've seen another attorney who regularly rides. It's a little cheaper than parking downtown, and it's probably a 3-4 block walk, so not too bad to get from my door to the courthouse.

Streetcars are absolutely packed today. Downtown is really thriving at the moment. Every shop I passed was full, people on the streets walking around everywhere. It's really neat.

I saw full streetcars today when I was downtown.

During a normal boring day, when there are no special events downtown and it's just regular office workers who are at their desks from 8-12, then take an hour lunch and are back at their desks from 1-5, the streetcar seems pretty empty. It also hasn't helped that the weather has been pretty bad lately.

But when there is some sort of special event going on (which is actually pretty common downtown), the streetcar looks like it's jammed full of people. And so far it looks like "special event" includes Friday and Saturday nights.

I expect ridership numbers to be pretty high, but that doesn't mean that the cars will be full on a random Tuesday at 2:30 in the afternoon.

During a normal boring day, when there are no special events downtown and it's just regular office workers who are at their desks from 8-12, then take an hour lunch and are back at their desks from 1-5, the streetcar seems pretty empty. It also hasn't helped that the weather has been pretty bad lately.

But when there is some sort of special event going on (which is actually pretty common downtown), the streetcar looks like it's jammed full of people. And so far it looks like "special event" includes Friday and Saturday nights.

I expect ridership numbers to be pretty high, but that doesn't mean that the cars will be full on a random Tuesday at 2:30 in the afternoon.

DT needs increased population from residents and employees. DT needs retail options like a Target, Grocer, restuarants alone are insufficient. OKC isn't a tourist destination like other similarly sized cities (N.O., Memphis ) that creates demand for ridership throughout the week. nor does it have the density that causes people to make public transportation preferable.(620 sq miles)!. Excessive Highway lanes makes it easier to just drive due to infrequent traffic backup. Streetcar is so far turning out to be a nice novelty. Finally, trip times I suspect are still too long and unreliable

I agree with much of what you are saying but there's a fatal mistake taken by the OKC government that centers most around one of your points, and that is DEMAND.

You can induce demand and make your system successful. Just ask Kansas City, Milwaukee, and others who have or had a ride-free zone or period where the entire system was free. I offered this idea to city leadership as a way to induce demand, particularly in a city like OKC that is spread out unnecessarily and is not very transit hip. The latter is the main reason why I think we need at least a downtown ride-free zone, make it free for the last mile of rail transit at least until more of the system is online and/or the RTD is up making commuters CAPTIVE downtown.

I also offered my city (Seattle) as one that used this exact model and has had a very successful bus transit model that recently is moving to rail. Seattle had way more retail options than OKC has yet went with the ride-free zone downtown to INDUCE demand and ridership. It not only worked (along with "Downtown Seattle" advertisements on TV) that none of it is no longer needed given the mass of commuters and stores to patronize. And Seattle has always been a transit friendly city yet still adopted a ride free zone, downtown.

I strongly urge OKC to reconsider this downtown ride-free zone idea, or dc sooner may be correct that the OKC Streetcar will remain a Novelty which could limit or even kill RTD and transit system efforts metro-wide.

So some good news... The signal priority has made a significant difference in not only the timeliness but the ridership experience in the areas that it has been applied. At last count, fifteen signals remain. It is my understanding that the City Staff is planning on doing four to six more this coming month.

It's not what I would personally prefer. Obviously, knocking out all fifteen at once would profoundly resolve the issues that help scare away weekday riders.

This is, however, a fundamental problem that at this point can only be resolved by City Staff.

One other good thing of note. The Traffic Commission approved converting the four-way stop to a two-way stop at SW 3rd and Hudson. This will alleviate the unnecessary stopping that is happening there.

Over half the reviews from this 2015 article were overseas. The rest were larger metro areas with more high rises in their core like SF, LA and NYC. Its not an apples to apples comparison.

Are there any OKC studies? We are a different type ciry.

How about we go a step more and ban all traffic within a 4 mile square of downtown? That will get poeple to ride the SC right? This city is still car centric and needs to still respect that fact. Just because some downtowners want to basically outlaw them the 7/8th’s majority rest of city does not
There you again, yelling exceptionalism at the clouds. Why bring up banning cars, not one article posted mentions that. You have not provided anything meaningful either by just saying " No, won't work here."
Here is link that sheds some light on those who you seem to align yourself with ideologically.
http://gothamist.com/2018/05/25/citi_bike_fury_flashback.php

A Fond Look Back At The Hysterical Anti-Citi Bike Hysteria

I was staying in a Bricktown hotel last Saturday. From my window I could see the loading platform near IHop. I noticed several people waiting for about 25 minutes for a streetcar to show up. Eventually they all walked away probably tired of waiting. I sure hope the routes can pick up the pace to be on a faster time schedule.

I was staying in a Bricktown hotel last Saturday. From my window I could see the loading platform near IHop. I noticed several people waiting for about 25 minutes for a streetcar to show up. Eventually they all walked away probably tired of waiting. I sure hope the routes can pick up the pace to be on a faster time schedule.

Looks like the whole system was stopped because there was a OGE truck working on something on Hudson.

Looks like the whole system was stopped because there was a OGE truck working on something on Hudson.

They have digital signage. This is something you'd hope they'd communicate if they wanted people to be able to rely on them.

They have digital signage. This is something you'd hope they'd communicate if they wanted people to be able to rely on them.

Yeah, The only indication that something was going on was the streetcar parked in front of the OGE truck and another one behind it parked at the scissor tail park station with it displaying "out of service".

Just to make sure, this incident happened Saturday and not Sunday?

From what I have witnessed. On weekends it seems like a healthy ridership, even with the bad weather we have had. But weekdays the streetcars appear to not even be 1/3 full. And I cannot even imagine what it looks like between 10pm and midnight on Mon-Thurs. It is probably empty or close to it that late.

I think the botched signal prioritization deal along with fares this early in the inception of the project has likely killed a lot of early ridership potential. We are going to have to wait for warmer weather, and likely completion of Scissortale [unfortunately slated for winter]. So we could easily be waiting for Spring 2020 to truly see how the streetcar will shape up.

I think the botched signal prioritization deal along with fares this early in the inception of the project has likely killed a lot of early ridership potential. .

signal prioritization yes.. but i don't think the fares matter... in my riding after leaving taprooms, the time it takes to get somewhere, and having to ride the whole loop are complaints i have heard as to why people don't take it... i don't think many people expected it to be free, and it's only $3... so don't think that is it at all

signal prioritization yes.. but i don't think the fares matter... in my riding after leaving taprooms, the time it takes to get somewhere, and having to ride the whole loop are complaints i have heard as to why people don't take it... i don't think many people expected it to be free, and it's only $3... so don't think that is it at all

Yeah, I don't mind the fare, but I could walk anywhere on the system quicker than taking it.

Well, hopefully, we can fix that.

We have some city staffers and a few MAPS 3 board members directly impacting this project who really don't have a clue or appreciate how important it is to quickly fix this problem. They want to do it incrementally out of fear that it will somehow disrupt automobiles. There are five easy intersections that directly affect timeliness. Once those easy wins are knocked out, we should see a much improved northbound experience. Southbound is dramatically better.

Well, hopefully, we can fix that.

We have some city staffers and a few MAPS 3 board members directly impacting this project who really don't have a clue or appreciate how important it is to quickly fix this problem. They want to do it incrementally out of fear that it will somehow disrupt automobiles. There are five easy intersections that directly affect timeliness. Once those easy wins are knocked out, we should see a much improved northbound experience. Southbound is dramatically better.

Need to preach people first, inanimate objects (cars) second.

Need to preach people first, inanimate objects (cars) second.

Well, there are people in those cars, so...

I'm all for signal prioritization, but snappy little answers like this don't help matters.

Yeah, I don't mind the fare, but I could walk anywhere on the system quicker than taking it.

Give it a try and report back

Well, there are people in those cars, so...

I'm all for signal prioritization, but snappy little answers like this don't help matters.

usually just a person, not people

I don't have a reason to ride it outside of the novelty. If you don't live downtown, it's hard to see the benefit of it. Now if it could GET you to downtown from nearby neighborhoods, I would see the value...

Well, hopefully, we can fix that.

We have some city staffers and a few MAPS 3 board members directly impacting this project who really don't have a clue or appreciate how important it is to quickly fix this problem. They want to do it incrementally out of fear that it will somehow disrupt automobiles. There are five easy intersections that directly affect timeliness. Once those easy wins are knocked out, we should see a much improved northbound experience. Southbound is dramatically better.

Are those five the "four to six more this coming month"?

Now if it could GET you to downtown from nearby neighborhoods, I would see the value...

I guess I sort of see the street car as a last mile type of deal. I can use the bus system to get downtown, and the street car to get around downtown.

I guess I sort of see the street car as a last mile type of deal. I can use the bus system to get downtown, and the street car to get around downtown.

This is exactly what it is designed for. And that will become even more clear when the regional transit authority gets cranked up

I don't have a reason to ride it outside of the novelty. If you don't live downtown, it's hard to see the benefit of it. Now if it could GET you to downtown from nearby neighborhoods, I would see the value...

I encourage you to speak to your council representative about expansion and what that might look like to you. Where do you live?

Are those five the "four to six more this coming month"?

I have a regular streetcar meeting tomorrow and will ask. These meetings are always open to the public as well.

Wed, Fed 27th, 3:30 PM in the EMBARK Conference Room next door to Clarity Coffee on Main Street in downtown OKC.

Give it a try and report back

I have. Well, not the entire system, but quite a bit of it. I've also ridden the full loop, and it was very slow for the distance traveled. I am really hoping they get it going quicker. I also wish they would've taken it further north and had a park and ride. As it is now, anywhere I normally park I can walk anywhere I want to go quicker.

The next intersections to be prioritized today have been confirmed.

Dean A McGee / Hudson
Robert S Kerr/ Hudson
10th / Hudson

SW 3rd will have the south / north stop sign eliminated.

Also, about $800,000 recommended for approval for reimbursement to Public Works for the work already done and the remaining 13 signals of determined to merit automation.

I have. Well, not the entire system, but quite a bit of it. I've also ridden the full loop, and it was very slow for the distance traveled. I am really hoping they get it going quicker. I also wish they would've taken it further north and had a park and ride. As it is now, anywhere I normally park I can walk anywhere I want to go quicker.

+1 the glut of parking garages directly impacts sc ridership imo.

Is the streetcar going to be on Apple and Google Maps?

Good question. Embark, can you weigh in on this?

Is the streetcar going to be on Apple and Google Maps?

It would go a long way in helping people use the streetcar more effectively. The Embark route planner is just Google's route planner. I'm not sure how all this ties together on the back end. Embark doesn't even have real-time street car information yet on its website yet. Its being treated like its own separate entity from the buses. The main Embark page just has a link to the streetcar page which if you ask me shouldn't even exist if the idea is to promote mass transit as a whole.

The system was shut down for about 45 minutes this afternoon because one BMW driving doofus parked his vehicle over the line. I had a nice chat with the supervisor. I could hear one of the drivers getting a little agitated because he was wireless and his battery was at 45%--this requires a maintenance person to come and manually allow the streetcar to continue running as they don't normally operate below 50%.

He said police are now more aggressively ticketing drivers who park over the line. He also said that the police are now in charge of getting wreckers there. I understand it's not uncommon for people to illegally park. I wonder why no enterprising wrecker service hasn't offered to patrol the lines and impound illegally parked vehicles on the spot?

The system was shut down for about 45 minutes this afternoon because one BMW driving doofus parked his vehicle over the line. I had a nice chat with the supervisor. I could hear one of the drivers getting a little agitated because he was wireless and his battery was at 45%--this requires a maintenance person to come and manually allow the streetcar to continue running as they don't normally operate below 50%.

He said police are now more aggressively ticketing drivers who park over the line. He also said that the police are now in charge of getting wreckers there. I understand it's not uncommon for people to illegally park. I wonder why no enterprising wrecker service hasn't offered to patrol the lines and impound illegally parked vehicles on the spot?

Just put a cattle plow on the front of each SC and be done with it. After a few cars get moved word spreadsand problem solved (sarcasm)

I agree get tow companies contracted with city. Make it required the tow company takes a pic of offending car with tag showing and send to city to post on a perp type website, hall of shame.

This story just sucks. In the recent past we’be had a tow truck within five minutes. I guess Arrow was busy pulling wrecked cars out of highway medians from the ice storm​.

Just put a cattle plow on the front of each SC and be done with it. After a few cars get moved word spreadsand problem solved (sarcasm)

I agree get tow companies contracted with city. Make it required the tow company takes a pic of offending car with tag showing and send to city to post on a perp type website, hall of shame.

I actually did suggest they take pictures and put them up on insta and was told they may already be doing that? I was told most of the offending vehicles are high dollar imports, mostly near Red Prime.

I like the plow idea.

Other interesting ideas discussed was that signal prioritization itself doesn't speed up the routes. The trolleys are spaced out just so, and if they get a couple minutes ahead of the next train, they stop and let the other trolley catch up. It is assumed they will speed up the routes. It seems like a bit of a juggling act.

Other interesting ideas discussed was that signal prioritization itself doesn't speed up the routes. The trolleys are spaced out just so, and if they get a couple minutes ahead of the next train, they stop and let the other trolley catch up. It is assumed they will speed up the routes. It seems like a bit of a juggling act.

Not sure who you talked to but that is half right. TSP has sped up travel times on average 4-7 minutes on the five recently installed. Operators are instructed to dwell at certain stops if streetcars become unevenly spaces to maintain consistent frequency. The issue with TSP is being the average arrival at every stop between 10 - 12 minutes instead of the 12 - 15 minute averages we are seeing. There is also a ride quality aspect to this as well. Riders don’t like to stop unnecessarily at red lights all of the time. It reduces the sense of momentum.

Just curious...once the towing company arrives at the offending vehicle, how long does it generally take to get it hooked up to the tow truck and out of the way?

As much as I love the streetcar, these two issues are the biggest flaws for me. It absolutely sucks to have to wait for several minutes for a flagger or a tow truck to come out. This shuts off the whole system and traps people inside the streetcar. This happens to me about 1/3 of the time i ride and I ride almost every day. What can be done about this?

also,
I understand the necessity for cars to dwell from time to time, but since you never know when it might happen, it's hard to rely on a consistent ride time. It also stinks if you check the app and see that a streetcar will arrive at say, the Midtown stop in three minutes. So you head over to the stop but then have to wait 7 minutes due to the fact that the streetcar dwelled for a few minutes at the Dewey stop. The screen just says 3 minutes away the whole time and there is no communication to the person waiting that a car has dwelled or that there will be a delay.

Just curious...once the towing company arrives at the offending vehicle, how long does it generally take to get it hooked up to the tow truck and out of the way?

I would imagine companies that have repo experience can do it in 3-5 minutes, they have to be that quick. No idea how good our towing companies are at this, though, and if they can do it like that or not, sorry, didn't really answer your question, actually. :(

Just curious...once the towing company arrives at the offending vehicle, how long does it generally take to get it hooked up to the tow truck and out of the way?

About 5 minutes.

It's a whole process, it seems, to get a car towed. Since the Police Department finally got serious about ticketing illegally parked vehicles, they have also insisted their wreckers be utilized. So now, the Streetcar team has to call the police, the police have to actually show up (this can take a great deal of time) the police then has to contact the wrecker service and the wrecker service has to come to the scene and do its thing. I don't see how this doesn't always take ~45 minutes.

About 5 minutes.

It's a whole process, it seems, to get a car towed. Since the Police Department finally got serious about ticketing illegally parked vehicles, they have also insisted their wreckers be utilized. So now, the Streetcar team has to call the police, the police have to actually show up (this can take a great deal of time) the police then has to contact the wrecker service and the wrecker service has to come to the scene and do its thing. I don't see how this doesn't always take ~45 minutes.

If this is truly how it works, then that is a really poor system. The city could easily work out a deal with one of the tow companies to have a truck on standby at all streetcar operating times. Isn't there like a handful of tow companies just west of downtown out along the Reno/May area?

There is a lot of videos of modern tow trucks pulling cars out in seconds. And often times the truck driver doesn't even get out of the cab. There is no reason streetcars should be blocked for more than 15 minutes.

If this is truly how it works, then that is a really poor system. The city could easily work out a deal with one of the tow companies to have a truck on standby at all streetcar operating times. Isn't there like a handful of tow companies just west of downtown out along the Reno/May area?

There is a lot of videos of modern tow trucks pulling cars out in seconds. And often times the truck driver doesn't even get out of the cab. There is no reason streetcars should be blocked for more than 15 minutes.

That made me think of an oddly entertaining YouTube channel called gtoger - an employee of a web hosting business in Dallas Texas, located near a popular entertainment district, has been posting videos of vehicles getting towed from their private lot. They contracted with a couple of wrecker services to keep their lot clear, and the wreckers are able to hook up most cars and pull them out in under a minute. You can see just how fast cars can get hooked up and towed on their channel, located here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPLjrMiMW2zSIMNZjjSRjQw

That's funny. I was actually going to link that channel in my post, but i decided not to since they are kinda gimmicky with subtitles and the clickbait thumbnails. But yes, that channel shows how fast you can actually pull cars out. Those are some really good tow operators.

If this is truly how it works, then that is a really poor system. The city could easily work out a deal with one of the tow companies to have a truck on standby at all streetcar operating times. Isn't there like a handful of tow companies just west of downtown out along the Reno/May area?...

Man, how many times can the city screw the streetcar project up? I understood that they would have a wrecker company (or companies) on-call (which I think of as sitting near the route somewhere, or at least close by), and the streetcar operator (maybe not the actual driver) would just call them, they come out, tow the car, and boom, streetcar's going again.

Hopefully this police BS system will get overturned, changed, or something because it's really ridiculous. Do other cities with non-grade separated rail do this kind of idiocy if someone's parked on the tracks are is OKC "exceptional" in this regard?

Man, how many times can the city screw the streetcar project up? I understood that they would have a wrecker company (or companies) on-call (which I think of as sitting near the route somewhere, or at least close by), and the streetcar operator (maybe not the actual driver) would just call them, they come out, tow the car, and boom, streetcar's going again.

Hopefully this police BS system will get overturned, changed, or something because it's really ridiculous. Do other cities with non-grade separated rail do this kind of idiocy if someone's parked on the tracks are is OKC "exceptional" in this regard?

Kansas City has a guy in a pickup truck who drives the route in advance of the streetcar. When he spots violators, a tow truck is called immediately. KC doesn't mess around.

Whelp. Currently stuck on a streetcar due to a track obstruction.

Kansas City has a guy in a pickup truck who drives the route in advance of the streetcar. When he spots violators, a tow truck is called immediately. KC doesn't mess around.

Paging our online/social-media-maven Mayor Holt - take note, do this!

Kansas City has a guy in a pickup truck who drives the route in advance of the streetcar. When he spots violators, a tow truck is called immediately. KC doesn't mess around.

Begs the question of does the current system wait until the streetcar operator calls? Or are the various parking enforcement folks on patrol also watching and proactively calling in when they see one parked illegally on the route?

Put cow-catchers on the front of the streetcars and just push them out of the way. 😎
After a few bashed up cars, maybe people would pay attention.

(I kid, I kid.... maybe 😉

Begs the question of does the current system wait until the streetcar operator calls? Or are the various parking enforcement folks on patrol also watching and proactively calling in when they see one parked illegally on the route?


I'm not sure about OKC. I do know that KC's crew works for the KCSA. During the time we ate dinner, this plain Ford F-150 pickup with a KCSA logo on the door drove by every 15 minutes. I'm assuming it's probably cheaper to have both a spotter and a tow truck under contract or employed. KC also had the disctintion of an streetcar/vehicle accident within the first hour of operation, so growing pains are not that unusual.

+1 the glut of parking garages directly impacts sc ridership imo.

For me it isn't really that there is parking downtown. Its that there isn't a good park and ride option. If I could park at like 23rd and ride it in I would do it every time I went downtown. I do foresee my mom using the SCs any time she goes downtown, as she isn't nearly as mobile as me.

As much as I love the streetcar, these two issues are the biggest flaws for me. It absolutely sucks to have to wait for several minutes for a flagger or a tow truck to come out. This shuts off the whole system and traps people inside the streetcar. This happens to me about 1/3 of the time i ride and I ride almost every day. What can be done about this?

If they are delayed more than a couple of minutes they should really let people out of the streetcar if they want to get out. I could see that single handedly driving many people away.

If they are delayed more than a couple of minutes they should really let people out of the streetcar if they want to get out. I could see that single handedly driving many people away.

No way that's going to happen, I can pretty much guarantee that the only place people can get on/off is at designated boarding platforms, it's a liability thing (or something like that, I'm no expert, but I'd bet there's some legal thing somewhere that says that).

Seems obvious that the only solution is to eliminate curbside parking. It is the easiest and most efficient.

Seems obvious that the only solution is to eliminate curbside parking. It is the easiest and most efficient.

Again, where is the OKC business study showing businesses support this? You are making personal assumptions so its not obvious.

The obvious path is to strictly enforce no parking zones. I mean, people speed on local roads too should we outlaw cars due to some lawbreakers?

Increase fines/fees for downtown area and make it painful to illegally park. After car is towed a 3rd time maybe have a 30 day impound time. Not sure of legalities but if their car is impounded for a month they might not do it again. Most times the towing and impound fees are over $300 (other cities) not sure about here.

If we care about our $170m SC investment then hire full time watchers who can call police on speedial, or call wreckers (if we put signs up saying its a tow zone then maybe can do without police)? Watcher and Wrecker both snap picure of offense for proof if needed. Then the person has to work with salvalge (tow) yard to pay fee to get car back. Could even have wrecker pay city a percentage of fees collected as a primary award (have wrecker companies bid on the contract for a year long and get exclusive rights to the tows).

I am against hurting legit car drivers who park legally to use a business (just support SC). There are ways to fix problem by only penalizing offenders not all people.

Eliminating parking is a bad idea. In fact if they were gonna do that then should have been done up front and could have placed SC rails in those spots and not taken car lanes.

No way that's going to happen, I can pretty much guarantee that the only place people can get on/off is at designated boarding platforms, it's a liability thing (or something like that, I'm no expert, but I'd bet there's some legal thing somewhere that says that).

It's funny you bring this up because we were riding it during the first couple of weeks of operation when a car was stalled on 10th just east of the Midtown stop, blocking the tracks. The streetcar driver actually asked people to volunteer to get out and help push the disabled car out of the way. Several people got off and helped, then got back in and we continued the route. In that instance it worked out well, but the liability thought did cross my mind.

No way that's going to happen, I can pretty much guarantee that the only place people can get on/off is at designated boarding platforms, it's a liability thing (or something like that, I'm no expert, but I'd bet there's some legal thing somewhere that says that).

That is just stupid. You can get out of a car or bus anywhere along a curb. Taxis and ubers let people out in the right lane all the time. But if you make a habit out of stranding people in the car for 45 minutes, nobody will ride it. If that ever happened to me I'd never get on it again. Its not like it is stopped in the middle of a busy highway, it is stopped in the right lane with an exit facing a curb or a parking lane in an area people walk all the time.