Oh and so business diners don’t have to get their car out for lunch. Big win.

i know i’m late to the party. And i don’t want to add salt to the wounds...but why are we calling this a transit system? How many people actually live within a few blocks of the route? How many people actually commute on it. To me it blatantly serves the tourist and entertainment tax dollar. It seemed like the so called “heavy players” got the route right through their business districts with little to no consideration for the people who could actually use it to reduce car traffic and surface parking. It just feels like the monorail at disneyland...next stop, retail bar and restaurant land!!

this. Exactly.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

There were a couple of homeless people riding

How do you know there were homeless, were they the wearing the EMBARK approved HOMELESS PERSON badges?

Apparently the PC police on this forum won't allow me to address this the way I wanted to (but others are allowed to take a condescending tone all they want - yeah, talking about you). Are you really so naive you don't think a person can identify a homeless person without a "EMBARK approved HOMELESS PERSON badge"?

Finally made it out to ride for the first time last night. Took the first train at the stop on the south side of the ballpark. Had great timing - only had to wait about two minutes, tops. I think there were some homeless people riding next to us (I didn't ask for proof of residency), they were nice and we had pleasant small talk discussing the nearby sights and upcoming developments.

Took the business loop around to AA, grabbed some dinner at Yuzo, and then planned to take it back. We arrived at the stop about 9:40. The display says 15 minutes until arrival. Even though is was 28°, wind was low so we figure we can tough it out and wait.

A few minutes go by, still says 15 minutes. It seemed to skip a few minutes and land on 11 minutes to arrival, where it seemed to stay for another 2-3 minutes. Then, a random, well dressed couple pulls up in a Denali and offers us a ride. Fearing an American Psycho or Eyes Wide Shut style ending to the evening, we politely refuse a few times and they finally go on their way.

Finally, the sign says 4 minutes until arrival. I run in to an old friend from college, we catch up a bit. News 9 came out and filmed a reporter a block south of the stop. Still 4 minutes until arrival. We give it another 5 minutes. Still stuck at 4 minutes. I'd estimate it was stuck on 4 minutes for a total duration of 15 minutes. Finally give up and call an Uber to get us back to the car.

Anybody know what caused the delay?

I know I’m late to the party. And I don’t want to add salt to the wounds...but why are we calling this a TRANSIT system? How many people actually live within a few blocks of the route? How many people actually commute on it. To me it blatantly serves the tourist and entertainment tax dollar. It seemed like the so called “heavy players” got the route right through their business districts with little to no consideration for the people who could actually use it to reduce car traffic and surface parking. It just feels like the monorail at Disneyland...next stop, retail bar and restaurant land!!

As been pointed out many times before, this ultimately will be a the connection for people commuting without cars on a commuter rail transit system. In addition, I think you grossly misrepresent the number of people choosing to actually live downtown. That number is constantly increasing.

https://journalrecord.com/2019/01/24/plan-to-improve-streetcar-signal-technology-runs-off-track/

An editorial about this current issue.

As been pointed out many times before, this ultimately will be a the connection for people commuting without cars on a commuter rail transit system. In addition, I think you grossly misrepresent the number of people choosing to actually live downtown. That number is constantly increasing.

First off I think they should release the $450k for the lights priority system and be done with it. Thats now all political it seems.

Overall, I am not sold on the system as constructed. I try to look at the long term picture too. Lets explore from my view:

1. Assuming we have a rail system taking people from Edmond to downtown. A person drives from house to a central parking lot in Edmond. Parks car and goes to train station to wait for train. If efficient they can time it daily.

2. Person gets in trian and takes downtown to work. They get off at central rail station.

3. Person moves from rail station to SC platform.

4. They wait for SC due to timing issues it may be 10-20 minutes.

5. After possible wait get on SC but they work on other side of downtown so have to go through rush hour like cars do.

6. After long ride and many stops they get to work stop and walk to building.

I can not imagine all these systems working in unison. It will take over an hour to get to work (car to train to SC to walk). So this dream of a massive amount of people using SC for commuting to work from an intermodal system is a pipe dream imo. And to make trains that can cover all 4 directions would be a massive cost and then needing a massive downtown hub to stop and drop. And if you work in medical district it still won’t get you to work. The SC has a limited scope in being an efficient people mover.

SC will be awesome for conventions and tourism, and I think thats the best approach. We could have had 4 times the amount of micro buses to move people within downtown for much cheaper. I also think had they made SC a tic tac toe design then it would be faster (go back and forth on one rail no directional changes so no turning needed). The only way a circular system would be efficient is if up in air above roads.

Right now its a great entertainment system and once OMNI and convention open up they will be a great target audience for it. Its never going to be an efficient people mover for out of downtown workers. The cost to try and connect the two woild be enormous. We can get rail downtown but I see buses or even Uber as faster way to get them moved once there due to this being a circular and not tic tac toe. After driving to lot, parking, getting on train, getting off train, going to SC stop, waiting for SC, getting on SC, taking 10-20 minutes to get to stop and then walking to work place - people are not gonna do that en mass. And we are talking major cost.

In the short term the city needs go fund the light problem at least make the experience better timing wise.

Forgot to mention, one thing a tic tac toe design does is eliminate having to keep all cars in perfect sync since all are on their own line. No stopping to reset distances between cars. And with not turns they can move faster on their line.

I do appreciate what you have done and all your years of unpaid work. My comments are not directed at you but just me lookimg at overall system and future rail plans and hkw they might tie in (or not). If we go full speed ahead it will take massive money and means most all other wants/needs are underfunded or not funded. We are a good sized metro but not big enough to support the costs we’ll need to spend for all of the systems on our wish list.

Anyways, we need to allow opposing points of view else bigger divisions will be created.

Transit isn’t ideal for everybody and never will be. However OKC is poised to continue its growth and be the leader of the state. Even though transit doesn’t work for everybody, the city has to have a transportation network that works for everybody. That includes roads and highways, sidewalks and bicycles, and buses and rail.

My experience living in bigger cities is that an hour is a reasonable commute time. It’s just part of life. Even though everyone brings up Edmond, I think Moore and Norman commuters will have the greatest improvement in commute times with a rail system. I used to live on 119th and Western and worked at 10th and Broadway. 45 minutes was average for me at rush hour. If you live in Norman you are already encroaching on an hour. That is with today’s population. There’s also no plans to widen I-35 on the horizon so for at least the next 10 years we will be adding commuters and not adding any capacity. The commute to the south side is only going to worsen. When the highway takes 90 minutes and the train takes 55 minutes, you will see the value in it.

Might not work for you, might not shave off much time from Edmond. But it will allow the city to offer options for people, and will significantly improve commute times to several areas of the city.

While my post concerns commuter rail, the streetcar plays a huge role in the viability of such commuter lines which will be necessary for the city’s future and growth potential.

The quarterly OKC architectural tour is underway this morning, using the streetcar. I’ve seen several posts showing people enjoying the ride. It may not be a utilitarian use of the streetcar, but it continues to gain supporters.

Transit isn’t ideal for everybody and never will be. However OKC is poised to continue its growth and be the leader of the state. Even though transit doesn’t work for everybody, the city has to have a transportation network that works for everybody. That includes roads and highways, sidewalks and bicycles, and buses and rail.

My experience living in bigger cities is that an hour is a reasonable commute time. It’s just part of life. Even though everyone brings up Edmond, I think Moore and Norman commuters will have the greatest improvement in commute times with a rail system. I used to live on 119th and Western and worked at 10th and Broadway. 45 minutes was average for me at rush hour. If you live in Norman you are already encroaching on an hour. That is with today’s population. There’s also no plans to widen I-35 on the horizon so for at least the next 10 years we will be adding commuters and not adding any capacity. The commute to the south side is only going to worsen. When the highway takes 90 minutes and the train takes 55 minutes, you will see the value in it.

Might not work for you, might not shave off much time from Edmond. But it will allow the city to offer options for people, and will significantly improve commute times to several areas of the city.

While my post concerns commuter rail, the streetcar plays a huge role in the viability of such commuter lines which will be necessary for the city’s future and growth potential.

I get a lot of what you say. But the expense will be so large due to how spread out our metro is compared to some other metro areas. It will take a massive influx of dollars to serve all directions. And the size of our metro won’t support the costs at this time.

I look at rail seperatelt from SC. SC is not a mass people mover imo. Its nice for tourism and bar/food hopping and weekends. Its never gonna be an efficient people mover.

Some want it expanded already. Some want light rail. In addition we have many other wants and needs coming up too. Peake will need a major outlay in the next 10-20 years, and a new arena at some point towards the later. SC will need money just to maintain and replace cars in future. Not to mention all the other outlays and wants.

Where is all this money going to come from?

As for the drive times you are factoring in the outer areas where most live in houses or apartments. If there is a rail hub then people will have to use time to get in car drive to hub, go to a large secured parking lot and then get to terminal (will need to walk or have shuttles to get from parkikg to terminal). That alone takes time maybe 15-20 mintutes from home to terminal after drive/park. Once at terminal a wait for rail, then boarding and finally moving. Once at destination terminal they are still not at work. Have depart and walk to SC stop and wait for it. Then another 15-20 minutes to get to closest stop. Then maybe walk or scooter or Uber to work? The total time is pretty big if all added up. If we have micro busses at rail terminal then can shave off time as we can have more of them making faster trips to work areas. This is why I say SC is not ideal as part of intermodal planning. Rail and SC to me are seperate.

I am not against rail I find it hard to see how we will pay for it without doubling our tax base. We will need massive use to get some money back but it will not be a momey maker it will be a money taker based on our metro population.

Also on light rail we’ll need some money to find space for hubs and places to securely park cars all day long. Land costs, building costs plus security of lot will be important. A lot of costs just for hubs. Then rail cars and line costs. I don’t see the ability to find enough money.

As is we are behind on roads. Its taking over 10 years to do 235/44. 40/44 will nedd to be done and how many years? To then get rail in all directions it will be a massive cost and decades of getting it in all 4 directions.

Idiots. Here's a list of the members of the board. The only email address I know is Mike Dover's (MikeDoverForOKC@cox.net) because he's running for City Council. If he voted against the proposal and you're in Ward 2, please vote for someone other than him for City Council (he's in my ward, so I'll be contacting him to find out how he voted).

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/citizens-advisory-board

Mike Dover voted no on the full signal prioritization, so if you live in Ward 2, his decision might affect who you vote for in Feb (I was waffling between him and James Cooper, now Cooper has my vote).

I get a lot of what you say. But the expense will be so large due to how spread out our metro is compared to some other metro areas. It will take a massive influx of dollars to serve all directions. And the size of our metro won’t support the costs at this time.

I look at rail seperatelt from SC. SC is not a mass people mover imo. Its nice for tourism and bar/food hopping and weekends. Its never gonna be an efficient people mover.

Some want it expanded already. Some want light rail. In addition we have many other wants and needs coming up too. Peake will need a major outlay in the next 10-20 years, and a new arena at some point towards the later. SC will need money just to maintain and replace cars in future. Not to mention all the other outlays and wants.

Where is all this money going to come from?

As for the drive times you are factoring in the outer areas where most live in houses or apartments. If there is a rail hub then people will have to use time to get in car drive to hub, go to a large secured parking lot and then get to terminal (will need to walk or have shuttles to get from parkikg to terminal). That alone takes time maybe 15-20 mintutes from home to terminal after drive/park. Once at terminal a wait for rail, then boarding and finally moving. Once at destination terminal they are still not at work. Have depart and walk to SC stop and wait for it. Then another 15-20 minutes to get to closest stop. Then maybe walk or scooter or Uber to work? The total time is pretty big if all added up. If we have micro busses at rail terminal then can shave off time as we can have more of them making faster trips to work areas. This is why I say SC is not ideal as part of intermodal planning. Rail and SC to me are seperate.

I am not against rail I find it hard to see how we will pay for it without doubling our tax base. We will need massive use to get some money back but it will not be a momey maker it will be a money taker based on our metro population.

Also on light rail we’ll need some money to find space for hubs and places to securely park cars all day long. Land costs, building costs plus security of lot will be important. A lot of costs just for hubs. Then rail cars and line costs. I don’t see the ability to find enough money.

As is we are behind on roads. Its taking over 10 years to do 235/44. 40/44 will nedd to be done and how many years? To then get rail in all directions it will be a massive cost and decades of getting it in all 4 directions.

Commuter rail to Edmond, Moore, and norman is a relatively easy apple to pick as passenger trains can share the track with BNSF freight trains. In fact, BNSF could even operate the trains. This happens in many commuter corridors. It would be similar to running the Heartland Flyer at peak times between Norman and Edmond.

While you see the Streetcar as a separate issue, it’s only one small piece of a larger system that includes roads, buses, bikes, and trains.

Commuter rail to Edmond, Moore, and norman is a relatively easy apple to pick as passenger trains can share the track with BNSF freight trains. In fact, BNSF could even operate the trains. This happens in many commuter corridors. It would be similar to running the Heartland Flyer at peak times between Norman and Edmond.

While you see the Streetcar as a separate issue, it’s only one small piece of a larger system that includes roads, buses, bikes, and trains.

I understand we can piggyback but they run a lot of trains on that track. They will have priority. In the mornings there is always trains coming north to south so that will mess up any useful rush hour benefits.

And imo we are still a commuter city based on roads due to how spread out we are. Unless we add some more mega business/buildings in downtown there will not be enough demand for the costs, if you can get commuters to change habits. The time thing won’t be helpful I laid out how much time it will take. An example is someone who works in the massive medical complexes east of 235, no SC or train will help them get to work. A micro bus system would have.

Back on topic I do think they need to fix the lights for SC. I think it may cause other problems with backimg up traffic based on just missing light and having to start over again. But to make our $130m investment have a chance they need to fix the lights.

I will not support any expansion of SC until we have at least a few years to see how the current system works. Too bad we could not have afforded having it raised up on pillars to not comingle with traffic, bikes and pedestrians then it would be much more timely imo. Plus we could have still used micro buses to move people faster on surrounding streets or areas from SC stop checkpoints.

Commuter rail to Edmond, Moore, and norman is a relatively easy apple to pick as passenger trains can share the track with BNSF freight trains. In fact, BNSF could even operate the trains. This happens in many commuter corridors. It would be similar to running the Heartland Flyer at peak times between Norman and Edmond.

While you see the Streetcar as a separate issue, it’s only one small piece of a larger system that includes roads, buses, bikes, and trains.
I think people should understand that it will not be easy or inexpensive to run commuter trains on the BNSF. I think this as I spent 38 years working for the ATSF in train service, here in OKC. They really don’t have a scheduled passenger train mentality, or experience any more. Plus the bottle necks on the three single track bridges to Edmond. Just getting a 10 car local to Ralston and back was sometimes a struggle. Not against comutter at all, it will be one hell of an effort.

As been pointed out many times before, this ultimately will be a the connection for people commuting without cars on a commuter rail transit system. In addition, I think you grossly misrepresent the number of people choosing to actually live downtown. That number is constantly increasing.

I spend loads of time downtown. My friends live in brownstones. A colleague lives at edge. When you say downtown do you mean the CBD? Cause other than the boutiques in a few old high rises. I’m just not seeing it. You can’t look at the loop as it sits today and say that it’s there to serve residents. I know way, way, WAY to many people who live in the 10 blocks north of 23rd, the gate wood/10 penn who could stand to use this for commuting and connecting to local communities. It’s painfully obvious that it tours AA Bricktown and midtown commercial properties. I guess my biggest point is: if you have to drive your car to hook up with it? What IS the point?

Unless you admit that it’s a tourist attraction and not transit.

The definition of transit is the movement of people from one place to another. The streetcar is transit.

I haven't posted in this thread since the opening of the streetcar, but I've ridden it around 20 times. I live nearest to the North Hudson stop, and I frequent downtown and Bricktown even more now, now that I don't have to worry about finding parking and having to rely on an automobile. The streetcar is awesome.

Instead of a binary framing of the streetcar as either tourist or transit, maybe consider it on a spectrum of more tourist to more transit. Right now, the streetcar may lean more towards tourist, but that makes sense since it is brand new option and there has been no time for the city to grow around it. Hopefully, there will be large residence/convention/business increases near stops, building of commuter rail and streetcar expansion, and the changing of lifestyles for some... and these changes can move the streetcar towards more transit purposes. To the latter for example, when people move to OKC now they can now make a conscious decision to live near a streetcar stop and use it to get to work or around the area.

Anyway, I'm just saying that as there is continued densification, car-less transportation infrastructure, and perception shifts, the streetcar purposes may shift.

It just feels like the monorail at Disneyland...next stop, retail bar and restaurant land!!

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/022046773943/media/124437274312/small/1548561211/enhance

So will we be able to see statistics for ridership once the "free trips" disappears? I mean, are ridership stats being collected currently? My gut says it will drop once the gratis period ends.

Even though the first experience with the streetcar may not have been ideal, I'm still supportive of the efforts and I can't wait until the next time a full-on level 11 night of drinking is planned in the core. The decision of "should we go to midtown/bricktown/AA/Deep Deuce" is less critical now that one can simply hop on the street car and go to all areas. Very much looking forward to it!

My friend from college that I ran in to lives a few blocks from one of the stops and works in the CBD. He says he absolutely loves it he takes it to/from work work and then all over at night/weekends to visit various breweries and restaurants.

Not sure what happened Friday night, but myself and a group of people were waiting @ a stop for almost 30 minutes and a streetcar never came. It was around 10pm and I checked social media for service interruptions and saw nothing.

Anyways it wasn't a good look for 8 out of 10 people in my group who it would have been their first ride on it. We ended up ordering Ubers that literally picked us up @ the platform.

The on-screen arrival time said 3 minutes the entire 30 minutes we stood there in the cold.

Perhaps the estimated arrival times should be suspended. Better to have no information than information that is almost always unreliable.

My understanding is the website is more accurate than the boards in general. Recommend checking there when in doubt about the boards.

http://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/real-time/

My understanding is the website is more accurate than the boards in general. Recommend checking there when in doubt about the boards.

http://okcstreetcar.com/ride-guide/real-time/

I'm not sure why - but I agree, the times we've utilized the website, the arrival times were very accurate.

the website is the real time data that is displayed on the pylons.

the website is the real time data that is displayed on the pylons.

I would have assumed it's the same data. Just odd when we've stood at the platform it's never correct but we've literally sat in our office and watched out the window and timed it with the website and it's within a minute. Weird coincidence.

Did the Street Car both Saturday and Sunday and was packed both days. JT concert in town Saturday night. Sunday I think a lot of people were riding it cause it was the last free weekend. While riding it after the Thunder game Sunday night sandwiched in I made the comment how are they going to check to see if people paid. Guy next too me pointed up and said there are scanners right above the doors that will pick up your ticket or phone. He claims even if it's in your pocket but i'm not sure about that but it seems you will have to just scan your phone or ticket when getting on.

^ I think he has the automated people counters confused with fare enforcement. They are cameras that count passengers entering and exiting but they can’t just read your fare or phone data.

I believe it will be on the honor system like most transit systems with enforcement carried out by random spot checks.

when is the last free day?

when is the last free day?

Friday, Feb 1.

Holt just announced on Twitter that there will be full Sunday service going forward, pending COPTA board approval. Great news (though it seems pretty obvious that this should have happened from the beginning).

If only full streetlight prioritization could also happen...then we may really have something.

Watching the city council meeting now, and Craig Freeman has proven himself to be car-centric with literally the 2nd sentence out of his mouth during the streetcar prioritization, ugh...

Shadid's pulling for full signal prioritization, instead of the incremental BS they're planning to do (supposedly there are signals that aren't a problem for the loop timing, Freeman said), and to me it all boils down to this - a streetcar should never have to stop at any signal at all. Shadid pretty much said (paraphrasing) "Since you've put $130,000,000 into this, why would you *not* want to get as close to the lowest possible loop timing as soon as possible? Put full signal prioritization in now."

Just heard that they're applying for $1,000,000 in funds to do bus signal prioritization, so that's a very good thing to hear!

Yes, Freeman has advocated for doing 5 of the intersections (from city money, not MAPS) and then taking a wait-and-see attitude for the remaining 16.

Holt also just announced 5 more signals (in addition to the first five) getting prioritization.

Holt also just announced 5 more signals (in addition to the first five) getting prioritization.

That would be 10 of the entire 16.

Why not just do them all and be done with this?

That would be 10 of the entire 16.

Why not just do them all and be done with this?
Damn good question, Pete. Makes no sense not to.

Looking at this more closely, my understanding is that 6 of the intersections will be complete by Feb. 1st with a wait-and-see approach for the remaining 15.

No MAPS money will be used for the initial intersections although there is talk that if all 21 get address that MAPS funds may be used to reimburse the city for all.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/singals012919.jpg

Its too bad they didn’t make the route a box style and all right turns, then we would have less worry about left turn lights.

15138

So I'm guessing we're just stuck with the incremental signal prioritization plan, didn't seem like the council did anything to advance doing all of them now (as it should've been done, and should've been in place before the first streetcar run was open to the public). Just stupid to let less than 1/2 of 1% of the total cost of the streetcar be an issue and worrying about how the poor car drivers might be slightly inconvenienced...

Didn't realize this, but UP's comments (correct me if I'm wrong, just kind of paraphrasing) were interesting about how some municipalities think of the streetcar more as an economic development tool to increase sales tax revenue than as public transit - build the streetcar (sometimes going places where there isn't much development), businesses fill in along the route, people use the streetcar to get back and forth easily, buy more stuff, sales tax revenue goes up, and by the way, it also kind of helps people get back and forth from their jobs.

So I'm guessing we're just stuck with the incremental signal prioritization plan, didn't seem like the council did anything to advance doing all of them now (as it should've been done, and should've been in place before the first streetcar run was open to the public). Just stupid to let less than 1/2 of 1% of the total cost of the streetcar be an issue and worrying about how the poor car drivers might be slightly inconvenienced...

Didn't realize this, but UP's comments (correct me if I'm wrong, just kind of paraphrasing) were interesting about how some municipalities think of the streetcar more as an economic development tool to increase sales tax revenue than as public transit - build the streetcar (sometimes going places where there isn't much development), businesses fill in along the route, people use the streetcar to get back and forth easily, buy more stuff, sales tax revenue goes up, and by the way, it also kind of helps people get back and forth from their jobs.

About your second paragraph. Adding up the costs ($130m plus years of routine upkeep and upgrades) we will never get the taxes back from the costs.

If we wanted to build the core tax base then finding a way to get people “to” the core would be a cheaper way to increase tax base. This SC system is a small circular (in the big scheme of things based on size of OKC) and is only good for tourists or downtown workers (who live there) and some from out of downtown.

No one who lives out of core and works in the core is driving car to park and then get on SC after untimely waits. People can use it for bar hopping and gameday. And to me the biggest gain will be when OMNI and convention and park open it will be more touristy, which is fine.

I personally would have spent the money on how to get people downtown without having to drive downtown and that would increase downtown business and taxes more than SC. I would have then used a fleet of micro buses to move people around once downtown.

But one thing I agree on, since its here we need the lights fixed as lomg as it does not create major problems backing up car traffic and hurting cars ability to get to establishments (and even walkers trying to cross street).

The SC is cool looking and will get a lot of out of towners to try it. One thing we need to do is get advertisements in all the businesses along and close to route listing every business located at each stop. Even if it takes people away from your business it will also bring them to your business. At each business imagine having a SC menu. It lists below each stop every business and what they are. Out of downtowners could then see what places to go visit and what stop its on and how to get there from the stop (menu would show this, like “get off SC, turn right and walk aprox 4 storefronts and its on your right”). Something like that.

The biggest thing about the streetcar is that it's a proof of concept. Almost everybody I've talked to who has ridden it has loved it. "This is so cool! It's like we're a big city!"

That was the goal. Mission accomplished.

Over the next few years, the city is going to try to fund a regional mass transit rail system. But we (arguably) needed the streetcar so that people could go ride it and get a picture in their heads of what this system would be like. The streetcar as it exists right now is primarily a tourist attraction and entertainment event circulator. Yes, it also drives up property values and promotes higher development along its path. But it was designed with possible expansion in mind, and I think connecting it to some nearby neighborhoods will give us the beginnings of a pretty solid transportation system.

It isn't the most cost effective, but it is the proof of concept that we needed. First and foremost, it had to change attitudes towards mass transportation.

didn't seem like the council did anything to advance doing all of them now

Didn't realize this, but UP's comments (correct me if I'm wrong, just kind of paraphrasing) were interesting about how some municipalities think of the streetcar more as an economic development tool to increase sales tax revenue than as public transit

On those two items-

1. Council couldn't do anything in this meeting as there wasn't an item to vote on since the MAPS Advisory Panel shot down the 21 signal plan last week. Yes, now we are down to 15 intersections that could have it but won't yet.

2. My comments about economic development pretty much related to Kansas City and Miluakee's decision to go fare-free. They see the streetcar as a way to more easily enable pedestrian activity and therefore boost sales tax revenues by increasing access to the businesses along the line.

I agreed with all of Councilman Shadid's comments. I really wasn't sure how far to go with some of it. Mayor Holt seems much more receptive to broader transit investments (bus and streetcar) in MAPS 4. I don't see Freeman being the obstacle that Couch was. I could be wrong about that, but as long as the books balance, I don't think he has the personal vendetta that Couch did against public transit.

Better public transit and increased sales and property taxes should go hand in hand.

And obviously, they do. My point is that those communities considered fares to be a potential barrier to use for some folks. They came to the decision to not charge fares and feel that the increased return is greater than the increased operational expense. That is the context of my comments to the City Council on that issue.

I have heard that OKC could see up to 2 Million in annual fares paid (About $547.00 a day average) - It would be interesting to see how much sales tax revenue has gone up in Kansas city within a half mile of the streetcar route...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUKOG-bb2sw

That would be 10 of the entire 16.

Why not just do them all and be done with this?

100%. This city is so strange. Sam Anderson needs to get to work on Boom Town 2. I'm sure there is some rich material to mine, such as Kimberly Lowe's absurd public comments about "instant gratification" as related to a modest request for signal priority. WITAF?

https://journalrecord.com/2019/01/25/ray-advisory-board-dismisses-effort-to-fix-streetcar-system/

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar012919a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar012919b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar012919c.jpg

A lot more off-wire than I had imagined.

100%. This city is so strange. Sam Anderson needs to get to work on Boom Town 2. I'm sure there is some rich material to mine, such as Kimberly Lowe's absurd public comments about "instant gratification" as related to a modest request for signal priority. WITAF?

Yeah, she's about as out of touch as the politicians that can't figure out how to use grocery store scanners or think stores will just work with furloughed federal employees and let them have things on credit, etc.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar012919a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar012919b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar012919c.jpg

Good graphics, shows that the actual times are not that far off from the target times. As 5Alive mentioned, 'A lot more off-wire than imagined.'

Good graphics, shows that the actual times are not that far off from the target times. As 5Alive mentioned, 'A lot more off-wire than imagined.'

Um, total loop time of 52 minutes as opposed to 40 minutes (I'm using 40 minutes, not 48, because you aim for the lowest time, as the guy from Embark making the presentation said during the council meeting) means it takes about 30% longer, that's not "not that far off". Same goes for peak time and off-peak time, about 30% longer. If you had a flight that was supposed to take 4 hours, but it took 5, would you say "that's not that far off"? If I missed some metrics on a project by 30%, I'd probably be fired.

Good graphics, shows that the actual times are not that far off from the target times

i see it completely different... since the Actual is an average... and with that average outside of all of their projected targets, it means that well more than half are far off from the target times...

My experience with a group of 10 last weekend was all it took for 8 people new to the streetcar to already want to write it off. And this is an example of a Friday night where there was no major event to bog the system down.

If this is happening regularly. Especially after people pay the fare - you are going to have a lot of potential riders writing the system off and telling their friends about how much it sucked they waited 30 minutes in the cold for a streetcar they paid for that never arrived. The Uber picking us up off the platform was the ultimate facepalm moment of the system.

We took a support staff outing yesterday and rode the SC and did lunch. Just missed the SC at Myriad Gardens and it said 9 minutes which was correct. SC was clean. Ate at Abuelos ($9.99 lunch buffet is legit here, especially when paired with 3 pitchers of margaritas) Walked outside as the SC was crossing Gaylord so was able to get on immediately.

Good experience but tbh....4 of us times $2 round trip and the having to ride all the way through midtown to go to BT would cause us to just drive and lay off the margaritas. If the BT loop was running during the week....we would me more likely to use.

On the SC, the announcement says you must have a new fare everytime you get on but the article in newspaper today said the $1 is good for one hour. Which is it.

We took a support staff outing yesterday and rode the SC and did lunch. Just missed the SC at Myriad Gardens and it said 9 minutes which was correct. SC was clean. Ate at Abuelos ($9.99 lunch buffet is legit here, especially when paired with 3 pitchers of margaritas) Walked outside as the SC was crossing Gaylord so was able to get on immediately.

Good experience but tbh....4 of us times $2 round trip and the having to ride all the way through midtown to go to BT would cause us to just drive and lay off the margaritas. If the BT loop was running during the week....we would me more likely to use.

On the SC, the announcement says you must have a new fare everytime you get on but the article in newspaper today said the $1 is good for one hour. Which is it.

$1 per hour $3 for 24 hrs.

I agree that maybe the bricktown loop should be considered for operation during the week. I think people would use it pretty regularly. That being said, if you want to avoid riding the entire downtown loop to get to Bricktown, instead of getting on at the Myriad Gardens Stop, you cold walk through the park to the Century Center Stop.

We took a support staff outing yesterday and rode the SC and did lunch. Just missed the SC at Myriad Gardens and it said 9 minutes which was correct. SC was clean. Ate at Abuelos ($9.99 lunch buffet is legit here, especially when paired with 3 pitchers of margaritas) Walked outside as the SC was crossing Gaylord so was able to get on immediately.

Good experience but tbh....4 of us times $2 round trip and the having to ride all the way through midtown to go to BT would cause us to just drive and lay off the margaritas. If the BT loop was running during the week....we would me more likely to use.

On the SC, the announcement says you must have a new fare everytime you get on but the article in newspaper today said the $1 is good for one hour. Which is it.

The fair will show up on the token transit app for 1 hour after you activate it (It really should be 1.5 hours to make lunch trips more reasonable).

Also I know transfers are not ideal but if you got in at myriad and got off at the federal court house stop. You could walk across the street and get on heading south at the memorial stop and avoid midtown and cut off most of that extra time