I totally understand why people who work downtown do not see the streetcar as efficient. It's not super efficient and even with signal prioritization along the entire route, it still won't be. But that doesn't mean it's just a recreational option. It just may take time for benefits to be evident.

OKC's core is still built almost 100% around cars. It's easy to drive and park almost everywhere. Streetcars, bike lanes, sidewalks, and a denser core all can slowly shift the dependence in and convenience of cars. Over the next few years, OKC might see more developments on current parking lots and new businesses that provide fewer spots. All of sudden, parking becomes harder to find; the infrastructure and use of other transportations options expands; and more people start changing their lifestyle. While public transit isn't always efficient, it's cheap, frees you up to do other things, and connects you to your community in unique ways.

For example, I often ride the A-Train/DART from Denton into downtown Dallas. It takes between 75 and 90 minutes. The drive is usually 45 to 60 minutes. However, I work almost the entire train ride and parking in downtown Dallas is a somewhat expensive hassle. Parking has only become a hassle in the last 10 or so years as the population, density, and public transportation options have increased. So, in short, the streetcar allows OKC's core to change. Once it's connected to commuter rail then people living in Norman may travel to OKC in the exact same way I travel to Dallas. It doesn't happen in a day.

I've gone car-less in the last 6 months and I've found it liberating. If I moved to OKC tomorrow, I would choose to live near a streetcar stop and use it as part of my everyday transportation options along with my bike, walking, buses, and Lyft. The savings from not owning a car a pretty great (e.g., no insurance, repairs, gas). I know I'm a pretty radical urbanist, but more people could choose to go car-less or car-optional (using the car on some days and not others). If you have a car and can park right next to your work then the streetcar is probably not a more efficient option for you... yet. Hopefully, it will be as OKC changes, but if it's an option for you, trying going car-less some day and see how it works.

I've been monitoring comments as I haven't had a chance to ride the streetcar, although I really want to before I have to pay, but the concerns from the individuals that work downtown are a lot of what I was concerned with previously. I'm sure some will remember I've been a doubter on this project, but at the same time since we are paying for it I want it to be a success. With that said I hope Urban Pioneer gets the signal prioritization done. From the sounds of it this is detrimental to speeding it up, which may solve some of these issues.

It’s funny to me that the success or lack of success is based on the 11am-1pm downtown worker lunch break range. Over the next decade the streetcar will spawn development which has residents, retail, restaurants, bars, and entertainment options. Some of this is already in place. The densification of downtown around the route will determine the success, not the office worker trying to go to fuzzy’s in bricktown for a $7 taco basket.

Downtown residents and visitors will determine the success of the streetcar, not the guy driving a BMW down from Edmond in to the Devon parking garage. Out of the 18 or so hours a day the streetcar is open, the only complaints I hear are from people not being able to use it at noon to go to lunch. That’s a small sample size and is not necessarily the ideal everyday use.

Great comment.

I've got a question for UP. The streetcar has been incredibly busy so far. My assumption is that part of this is because it's a new toy, and because a lot of people are trying it out while it's free. Plus you've probably got a lot of people who are coming downtown for Christmas stuff and this is the one time of the year they come here.

But, what if it's not? What if six months from now, it's still this crowded? If it's necessary, what are the procedures for adding additional streetcars? We've got 7 right now, how do we go about getting an 8th, 9th, or 10th? Are there any sort of benchmarks that would cause the city to look at additional purchases? We've had a lot of comments on this thread about getting the kinks worked out, what if it's a smashing success?

So why are we wanting a GPS map of the trains? I have honestly never seen this used anywhere. Vienna, London, Paris, Barcelona, NYC, etc. It is always just a time until next train/streetcar arrives.

Most, if not all of these stations, are located out of the elements. We are going to ride it tomorrow to some breweries and it would be nice to time if perfectly so we aren't freezing too much.

Most, if not all of these stations, are located out of the elements. We are going to ride it tomorrow to some breweries and it would be nice to time if perfectly so we aren't freezing too much.

One good thing about the OKC streetcars is that at least they are around businesses and activity. When I ride the A-Train and DART Green Line in Dallas, they are largely park-and-ride stops and there's no businesses anywhere to be seen. I've sat at empty stops in the dark, lonely night by myself waiting for a connecting trains in awful weather or at the end of the line in the middle of nowhere waiting for a Lyft ride to get me the rest of the way home. In short, avoid building the commuter rails around park-and-rides and try to build them through urban areas (e.g., downtown Norman) or areas where developers can build with urban design. :) Near many streetcar stops, you could order food or a drink, tab out, and then hurry to the stop once the streetcar appears.

So many comments and the concerns raised over this massive thread still exist.

Saying its cheap is misleading. It cost us over $130,000,00 plus will continue to cost as we move forward. Driver labor, staff labor, car upkeep, maint depot upkeep and all the ads and other promo.

Being a circular means it will never ever be on time. Its too massive a line to do so mixed in with roads/cars.

It seems more of a tourist novelty and thats fine if we admit it and use it to promote OKC from that perspective. To say its an efficient people mover for the masses is wrong imo. Since it uses roads unless you live close to route or are tourist its not efficient.

Someone mentioned density and once we get there it will be useful. We are 100 years from that lol. Are we that far ahead?

Related to above para, look at NYC. One of the biggest metro areas there is ,very dense. Yet they still use roads! They have no streetcars! They use subways, trains, buses and taxi’s. You can get anywhere with taxi. They would never take car lanes for a streetcar it would hurt them.

We should have made this a 2 way type setup. As is if you need to get back to where you started and if you did 1/5th on way to meeting now you have to ride 4/5ths of the track to get back. A 2 way system would solve this. It would have required changing streetcars and catch the ones going other way but would have been more efficient. Expanding will not make it more efficient either. Imagine had the line ran east/west all the way on 10th to medical district but with 2 rails. Another set running north/south on a major road. And if 2 routes east/west and 2 north/south they intersect and you can get somewhere yet open it up to more people with less total roads used.

Another point, businesses downtown will not stand for another round of torn up roads it killed a lot of revenue for them. They need a break to make business work.

We missed an opportunity to make it a true “efficient people mover”. We do however have something not many cities have and need go embrace this as a tourist feature. And for the few people it helps that live close then great. Unless we build Devon sized high rise apartments we will never have the density to make our roads obsolete. But now we do have cars competing with trams and neither works good now (on the route).

One thing is why fancy buses could not have accomplished the same thing with less expense and no torn up roads/disruption. And buses are able to adjust routes if its realized the current one is not the best. With streetcar we are stuck with this route no matter what changes.

And before someome says buses are not working outside downtown, I say streetcars would not work outside of downtown either. Downtown and suburbia are 2 different things. Had we spent half the money and using mini luxury buses could have had one every few minutes. In fact had we used a lot of small lux buses that would maybe have forced more drivers off road than SC ever will. I would have rather spent the money to get people to downtown (light rail) and then have this massive lux mini bus system all over. Think of NYC taxis but with mini lux buses.

I hope Street Car works due to the cost but I can firmly say any votes for exapansion or upgrade would get my no vote. We need to go a few years and revisit them. I think its calling card is tourists. And we have yet resolved moving people around downtown. I’m sure to get some surly replies and thats fine. I love my city and am giving my honest opinion typos and all.

So many comments and the concerns raised over this massive thread still exist.

Saying its cheap is misleading. It cost us over $130,000,00 plus will continue to cost as we move forward. Driver labor, staff labor, car upkeep, maint depot upkeep and all the ads and other promo.

Being a circular means it will never ever be on time. Its too massive a line to do so mixed in with roads/cars.

It seems more of a tourist novelty and thats fine if we admit it and use it to promote OKC from that perspective. To say its an efficient people mover for the masses is wrong imo. Since it uses roads unless you live close to route or are tourist its not efficient.

Someone mentioned density and once we get there it will be useful. We are 100 years from that lol. Are we that far ahead?

Related to above para, look at NYC. One of the biggest metro areas there is ,very dense. Yet they still use roads! They have no streetcars! They use subways, trains, buses and taxi’s. You can get anywhere with taxi. They would never take car lanes for a streetcar it would hurt them.

We should have made this a 2 way type setup. As is if you need to get back to where you started and if you did 1/5th on way to meeting now you have to ride 4/5ths of the track to get back. A 2 way system would solve this. It would have required changing streetcars and catch the ones going other way but would have been more efficient. Expanding will not make it more efficient either. Imagine had the line ran east/west all the way on 10th to medical district but with 2 rails. Another set running north/south on a major road. And if 2 routes east/west and 2 north/south they intersect and you can get somewhere yet open it up to more people with less total roads used.

Another point, businesses downtown will not stand for another round of torn up roads it killed a lot of revenue for them. They need a break to make business work.

We missed an opportunity to make it a true “efficient people mover”. We do however have something not many cities have and need go embrace this as a tourist feature. And for the few people it helps that live close then great. Unless we build Devon sized high rise apartments we will never have the density to make our roads obsolete. But now we do have cars competing with trams and neither works good now (on the route).

One thing is why fancy buses could not have accomplished the same thing with less expense and no torn up roads/disruption. And buses are able to adjust routes if its realized the current one is not the best. With streetcar we are stuck with this route no matter what changes.

And before someome says buses are not working outside downtown, I say streetcars would not work outside of downtown either. Downtown and suburbia are 2 different things. Had we spent half the money and using mini luxury buses could have had one every few minutes. In fact had we used a lot of small lux buses that would maybe have forced more drivers off road than SC ever will. I would have rather spent the money to get people to downtown (light rail) and then have this massive lux mini bus system all over. Think of NYC taxis but with mini lux buses.

I hope Street Car works due to the cost but I can firmly say any votes for exapansion or upgrade would get my no vote. We need to go a few years and revisit them. I think its calling card is tourists. And we have yet resolved moving people around downtown. I’m sure to get some surly replies and thats fine. I love my city and am giving my honest opinion typos and all.

Many of these points are straw men (who is talking about making roads obsolete?) or arguments that have been addressed multiple times in this thread (e.g., the benefits of a fixed-route system). However, I do agree that even if it is mostly for tourists or out-of-town visitors that it isn't necessarily a fail and can still serve a useful purpose.

Many of these points are straw men (who is talking about making roads obsolete?) or arguments that have been addressed multiple times in this thread (e.g., the benefits of a fixed-route system). However, I do agree that even if it is mostly for tourists or out-of-town visitors that it isn't necessarily a fail and can still serve a useful purpose.

Its not strawman a poster on prior page talked aboit making cars obsolete with SC being one of the viable options.

I just never see this as a true people mover. So some want to expand it all the way west or north to Penn Square. Its not designed for that and my point isI don’t see expansion as an option. In fact in time we may realize if we put 2 way SCs it could move people around more efficiently. So any future costs might be adding a 2 way type system? I think thats where we end up down the road. A one way system is just that “one way”. This is great for tourists not in a hurry.

Until we get OMNI done and draw more tourists/conventions we need local users to subsidize it to help pay for running costs. If the downtown workers can’t use it efficiently then you will lose a core paying base. Thats the worry, and is why lunchtime efficiency is important, to get users paying.

Speaking of that, does anyone know what the breakeven ridership per day is to pay overhead? I’ve not seen it listed and would be interested to know. Because above all else we have to hit those targets else people will feel left out if this is hidden. This SC project is owned by all citizens not just the users. And it will be important costs and ridership are transparent else we lose oit on future MAPs, if trust is lost.

Once OMNI/Convention Center open that will help out a ton.

A lot of thought went into this and continues to. I’d say the best path to take is continue constructive thoughts and give them some time to make adjustments. Also, there are easy ways to walk a block here or there which can cut off 6-8 stops easily when needing to back the other direction.

I've got a question for UP. The streetcar has been incredibly busy so far. My assumption is that part of this is because it's a new toy, and because a lot of people are trying it out while it's free. Plus you've probably got a lot of people who are coming downtown for Christmas stuff and this is the one time of the year they come here.

But, what if it's not? What if six months from now, it's still this crowded? If it's necessary, what are the procedures for adding additional streetcars? We've got 7 right now, how do we go about getting an 8th, 9th, or 10th? Are there any sort of benchmarks that would cause the city to look at additional purchases? We've had a lot of comments on this thread about getting the kinks worked out, what if it's a smashing success?

First of all, I will address your questions as they are great questions. Regarding OKCGUY, how about you get off your lazy a** and read the previous 300 page thread? All of your issues and canards have been addressed. Furthermore, 50,000 people just rode the damn thing. I am tired of people complaining who have zero vision or aptitude to change this city for the better. It’s not a double-track system on the same street because we want people to ******* walk. And guess what, that is working!

Regarding the questions, if ridership plummets, then the city really needs to look at the Kansas City fare-free model more seriously. Ticketing is a barrier undoubtedly. This system should serve both as a major public transit mechanism who’s value will continue to grow with time and also a Sales Tax revenue generator that can pour millions into city coffers for reinvestment.

If ridership increases or expansions into Capitol Hill, NE Side, and NW quadrants become a reality, the City should consider aggressively extending its current “buy options” into 2020 so that they can purchase the current streetcar models at the negotiated 2017 prices. We have seven “options” available. That part of the contract expires this coming year if not exercised or extended. We would then have to go through the procurement process again which will take time and add multitudes of potential conflicts if a different vehicle type is chosen.

Hope that helps.

First of all, I will address your questions as they are great questions. Regarding OKCGUY, how about you get off your lazy a** and read the previous 300 page thread? All of your issues and canards have been addressed. Furthermore, 50,000 people just rode the damn thing. I am tired of people complaining who have zero vision or aptitude to change this city for the better. It’s not a double-track system on the same street because we want people to ******* walk. And guess what, that is working!

Regarding the questions, if ridership plummets, then the city really needs to look at the Kansas City fare-free model more seriously. Ticketing is a barrier undoubtedly. This system should serve both as a major public transit mechanism who’s value will continue to grow with time and also a Sales Tax revenue generator that can pour millions into city coffers for reinvestment.

If ridership increases or expansions into Capitol Hill, NE Side, and NW quadrants become a reality, the City should consider aggressively extending its current “buy options” into 2020 so that they can purchase the current streetcar models at the negotiated 2017 prices. We have seven “options” available. That part of the contract expires this coming year if not exercised or extended. We would then have to go through the procurement process again which will take time and add multitudes of potential conflicts if a different vehicle type is chosen.

Hope that helps.

I respect your personal contributions to this project and realize its close to home for you. Hats off to you for all your hard work I do not mean to diminish it.

I also feel citizens like me should have an equal voice without being pushed aside or bullied for voicing opinions. There is a lot of talk about expanding it and thus my comments on 2 way rails. If we end up spending more money then I am expressimg my voice.

Question: After the free rides are over do you know what the average daily paid ridership needs to be for break even?

Thanks, and I have no intentions of bullying back. I want whats best for the city I love.

Just FYI, no transit system in the world "breaks even". But also, roads don't break even either (e.g. from gas taxes).

I'm pretty sure all the numbers you could want are given at the Embark board meeting (https://embarkok.com/about/board-meetings). If you cannot attend you can watch it on YouTube or Cox Channel 20.

Just FYI, no transit system in the world "breaks even". But also, roads don't break even either (e.g. from gas taxes).

I'm pretty sure all the numbers you could want are given at the Embark board meeting (https://embarkok.com/about/board-meetings). If you cannot attend you can watch it on YouTube or Cox Channel 20.

If not mistaken the OK Turnpike actually makes money but then spends it on bonds for future expansion. Transit does break even.

Before we add more the citizens need to know how much it loses. I don’t expect it to make money right away but am looking at long term. We need to learn how much it costs to subsidize if it loses money especially before we expand and then we have more miles and more loss to cover with our taxes.

I think its a fair question

For the record Hong Kong makes money and I’ve riden it what a great shstem. Same in Japan and I’ve riden it too.

You question is absolutely fair. Watch the board meetings. Or attend and ask the questions to those folks directly for factual data.

I'd like to see numbers on multi-billion dollar transit systems making money. I'm totally okay with being wrong on that point.

You question is absolutely fair. Watch the board meetings. Or attend and ask the questions to those folks directly for factual data.

I'd like to see numbers on multi-billion dollar transit systems making money. I'm totally okay with being wrong on that point.

I would bet a majority of them lose. So we have to decide how much of the pie to cut for SC but also keep spending on buses and other wants like light rail or even train. Each addition adds more long term cost so something has to suffer or taxes have to keep going up.

I think the money makers are going to be overseas where they built transit systems before cars (roads) had a head start like here. We were built on roads and adding other transit which is complicated. It would be like overseas building roads around rails so to speak. Each has challenges.

I’ll leave this thread for awhile my being attacked prediction came true and I am not trying to come across as a bad guy. But some are so inside this system its impossible for someone like me to express opinion without being attacked. Better to back away for awhile and let it run its course. I’ll be active enough when it comes to any votes, once I see how it works over time. If it works I’ll 100% support it too, to be clear. Thats my hope.

Why does it have to make money?

I’ve never had a road construction crew ask for money before they fixed a pothole.

I respect your personal contributions to this project and realize its close to home for you. Hats off to you for all your hard work I do not mean to diminish it.

I also feel citizens like me should have an equal voice without being pushed aside or bullied for voicing opinions. There is a lot of talk about expanding it and thus my comments on 2 way rails. If we end up spending more money then I am expressimg my voice.

Question: After the free rides are over do you know what the average daily paid ridership needs to be for break even?

Thanks, and I have no intentions of bullying back. I want whats best for the city I love.

Yeah, his comments and general attitude in that post were uncalled for - especially considering his relationship with the topic. Hopefully the streetcars are made with thicker skin than he is.

It’s funny to me that the success or lack of success is based on the 11am-1pm downtown worker lunch break range. Over the next decade the streetcar will spawn development which has residents, retail, restaurants, bars, and entertainment options. Some of this is already in place. The densification of downtown around the route will determine the success, not the office worker trying to go to fuzzy’s in bricktown for a $7 taco basket.

Downtown residents and visitors will determine the success of the streetcar, not the guy driving a BMW down from Edmond in to the Devon parking garage. Out of the 18 or so hours a day the streetcar is open, the only complaints I hear are from people not being able to use it at noon to go to lunch. That’s a small sample size and is not necessarily the ideal everyday use.

I don't think it's "funny" at all that we spent 135 million+ on something that the average downtown worker (you know, those who primarily occupy downtown during the day, during the week and have to put up with the construction and inconvenience) are struggling to find the relevance of the streetcar - and that's taking into consideration the average downtown worker's needs from 8-5 (not just 11am-1pm).

I park in a private lot downtown in front of my office. My wife parks in a parking garage downtown and has to walk to/from her office. I move about the downtown core throughout my day - everyday. My wife goes to/from the parking garage, gets out occasionally for lunch and goes to both the main street and main Y locations downtown.

I would think those scenarios of our interactions downtown are pretty common amongst downtown workers. Yet, I can't find a single instance where the Streetcar benefits us beyond the novelty of it. It doesn't get either of us from or to our cars faster or more conveniently (it's actually the complete opposite), we can't utilize it for lunch and it's a huge time waster when it comes to running errands downtown. Which is fine if we just come out and say, "the $135-million street car really isn't for those who most occupy downtown day-to-day." It's for.... well, I really don't know who it's for at that price tag, but "boy isn't it cool we are a big league city now!"

I hope it succeeds. And by that, I mean I just hope it can pay for itself going forward and that people find a way to adjust to make the streetcar relevant beyond it's warm fuzzy presence.

Yeah, his comments and general attitude in that post were uncalled for - especially considering his relationship with the topic. Hopefully, the streetcars are made with thicker skin than he is.

First of all, his response to my commentary was quite kind and I appreciate that. But his earlier commentary fully went trollville. Most if not all of those concerns, comments, and arguments have been hashed out in the proceeding 300-page thread. Anyone who really knows me will tell you I'll gladly speak my mind.

Trolling commentary should go straight into the electronic wastebasket.

Back on subject, I agree with OKCGUY. Any extensions extending out of the existing system into distant districts should provide "two-way" service on the same corridor. There may a few exceptions, but generally, that would be a far better way to extend the system instead of couplets.

Another thing... now IS the time for honest feedback and good ideas. How do we extend the system? Where do we extend it? I'm not going to attack people for honest contributions. But relitigating past decisions that cannot be changed grates on my nerves and is a waste of everyone's time.

yipes.



I don't think it's "funny" at all that we spent 135 million+ on something that the average downtown worker (you know, those who primarily occupy downtown during the day, during the week and have to put up with the construction and inconvenience) are struggling to find the relevance of the streetcar - and that's taking into consideration the average downtown worker's needs from 8-5 (not just 11am-1pm).

I park in a private lot downtown in front of my office. My wife parks in a parking garage downtown and has to walk to/from her office. I move about the downtown core throughout my day - everyday. My wife goes to/from the parking garage, gets out occasionally for lunch and goes to both the main street and main Y locations downtown.

I would think those scenarios of our interactions downtown are pretty common amongst downtown workers. Yet, I can't find a single instance where the Streetcar benefits us beyond the novelty of it. It doesn't get either of us from or to our cars faster or more conveniently (it's actually the complete opposite), we can't utilize it for lunch and it's a huge time waster when it comes to running errands downtown. Which is fine if we just come out and say, "the $135-million street car really isn't for those who most occupy downtown day-to-day." It's for.... well, I really don't know who it's for at that price tag, but "boy isn't it cool we are a big league city now!"

I hope it succeeds. And by that, I mean I just hope it can pay for itself going forward and that people find a way to adjust to make the streetcar relevant beyond it's warm fuzzy presence.

I think the money makers are going to be overseas where they built transit systems before cars (roads) had a head start like here. We were built on roads and adding other transit which is complicated. It would be like overseas building roads around rails so to speak. Each has challenges.

Many cities across the US, including OKC had public transit in place before cars were so widespread. The difference between European cities and American cities comes from how the different modes of transportation were subsidized. For the US, the automobile industry was able to capture more politicians and help create a better environment to mass produce cars for people as well as getting cheaper prices on oil to power them. This is still seen today as it is very cheap to obtain a driver's license and one can start driving as early as 16, compared to the higher prices of licenses and driving classes in Europe, most drivers don't start until 18, sometimes never. European countries also heavily subsidize public transit over personal vehicles and fuel. Most city centers have heavy taxes and fees to even drive a vehicle around town.

The other facet is that most rail traffic in Europe is state owned companies. Whereas here in the US we have private businesses who actually own the tracks and operate freight lines making more hurdles for public transit when wanting to create a city wide system.

The street car is an easy build due to being on public access streets instead of trying to negotiate with private rail companies.

Whenever I read about the transition from the Interurban to city buses in OKC, it gives me a headache. Politicians at the time wanted a cheaper solution, now decades later we have a confusing bus system that garners many complaints. So why are buses seen as a better transit option city wide? I think having a system with both a streetcar and buses is the answer. We just need to give OKC time to shift how we see transit. One can get a day-pass for Embark for $4. Does it take more time? Yes, but for $4 that beats using gas and paying to park and allows one to get some extra work done while riding the system.

I don't think it's "funny" at all that we spent 135 million+ on something that the average downtown worker (you know, those who primarily occupy downtown during the day, during the week and have to put up with the construction and inconvenience) are struggling to find the relevance of the streetcar - and that's taking into consideration the average downtown worker's needs from 8-5 (not just 11am-1pm).

I park in a private lot downtown in front of my office. My wife parks in a parking garage downtown and has to walk to/from her office. I move about the downtown core throughout my day - everyday. My wife goes to/from the parking garage, gets out occasionally for lunch and goes to both the main street and main Y locations downtown.

I would think those scenarios of our interactions downtown are pretty common amongst downtown workers. Yet, I can't find a single instance where the Streetcar benefits us beyond the novelty of it. It doesn't get either of us from or to our cars faster or more conveniently (it's actually the complete opposite), we can't utilize it for lunch and it's a huge time waster when it comes to running errands downtown. Which is fine if we just come out and say, "the $135-million street car really isn't for those who most occupy downtown day-to-day." It's for.... well, I really don't know who it's for at that price tag, but "boy isn't it cool we are a big league city now!"

I hope it succeeds. And by that, I mean I just hope it can pay for itself going forward and that people find a way to adjust to make the streetcar relevant beyond it's warm fuzzy presence.

It’s already paid for? Literally the only cost is the cost to operate it and maintain it. That’s quite literally a 100% unique situation to OKC. How do you feel about the MAPS sidewalks and trails? Are you hoping those pay for themselves too? Senior citizen centers? I’m sure those are huge profit centers for the city as well. Did we ever install paid turnstiles at the Bricktown canal? Only those who pay may walk along if?

Why is the streetcar literally the only thing that has to “pay for itself”? Yes it is funny because the streetcar is for everyone and not just the office worker. The goal is to have an entire neighborhood be built around the line. If it happens to work for your lunch break that is great! If not, that doesn’t mean the system is flawed or not paying for itself.

Edit: and ideally, the streetcar is more likely to create a downtown where you don’t even want to ride it to lunch. The densification that occurs along fixed guideway transit usually means you will eventually have several restaurants right next to your office. Within walking distance. The streetcar will likely be the catalyst to some rapid densification in the 2-3 blocks surrounding the line.

I think the comments on it not being viable for those working downtown for lunch are completely relevant. As I recall in this very thread, many of the people pressing hard for the streetcar used this as an example of the benefits of having a streetcar. Now that it's operational and proving it's not as viable as once was thought, the notion is being completely discounted as "that's not it's intended purpose."

While I agree that was never it's primary goal, it irks me now to see this shift in the narrative that it was always meant to serve multiple purposes. Who knows maybe with some signal prioritization it will speed it up enough to make it viable for those utilizing it for lunch. Now that we got it we might as well make it the best streetcar we can while it's new and fresh in everyone's minds.

^It is almost as if there are hundreds of different posters in this thread over the lifetime of it existing for almost ten years. The OKC streetcar itself was first being conceptualized in 2005, that is forever ago in terms of where OKC is today.




Edit: and ideally, the streetcar is more likely to create a downtown where you don’t even want to ride it to lunch. The densification that occurs along fixed guideway transit usually means you will eventually have several restaurants right next to your office. Within walking distance. The streetcar will likely be the catalyst to some rapid densification in the 2-3 blocks surrounding the line.

This is why sales and property taxes along the line can/[hopefully will be] used for making the system free to use in the near future.

I agree that lunch users are relevant... particularly from an economic Sales Taxe Revenue standpoint. With the improved and broader deployment of signal prioritization and our launch of a real-time GPS map, using it for such purposes will increase in viability.

And yes, in ten years the broader diversification and densification of the area means that operationally, it should benefit from these improved demographics downtown.

Re: Lunch issues - it totally depends on where you start/finish. I believe it would be beneficial to run the Bricktown loop between 10am-2pm as that would add a lot of functionality for many. If you work in the core/skyscraper area and leave for lunch at 11:30am, AND google had the timings listed so you didn't waste time at a stop, you could easily make it to lunch and back in an hour. With signal prioritization it is even more feasible. Also - Okcstreetcar.com is now finally on the 1st page of google search results and will keep moving up. Are they using some google adword marketing on this?

Ex of lunch experiences - starting in the core Park/Robinson area. Get on at Oklahoma tower and be in Bricktown in 2 stops - 5 min. Get back on and ride to Library stop 8 stops - 10-15 minutes. You have 40 minutes to eat.

Get on at Library stop to get to Auto Alley or Midtown - 4 stops to get to Auto Alley, 6 or 7 to Midtown - 10 minutes. Get back on and ride to stop at Oklahoma Tower - 6 stops - 10 minutes. 40 minutes to eat.

AND google had the timings listed so you didn't waste time at a stop, you could easily make it to lunch and back in an hour.

very much this

In the famous words of that great American poet, Jimmy Buffett:

I wish lunch could last forever
Make the whole day one big afternoon
We'll begin with dessert a little coconut tart
Mmmm tastes as sweet as a piece of your heart
Cafe au lait beneath the Paris (OKC?) moon

In the famous words of that great American poet, Jimmy Buffett:

I wish lunch could last forever
Make the whole day one big afternoon
We'll begin with dessert a little coconut tart
Mmmm tastes as sweet as a piece of your heart
Cafe au lait beneath the Paris (OKC?) moon

Love this. In France there is a 2 hour lunch expectation - and it is adhered to greatly. Take time to eat the most important meal of the day, actually relax, talk to your friends... Can we incorporate this in OKC? Then the Streetcar will be perfect :)

...How do you feel about the MAPS sidewalks and trails? Are you hoping those pay for themselves too? Senior citizen centers? I’m sure those are huge profit centers for the city as well. Did we ever install paid turnstiles at the Bricktown canal? Only those who pay may walk along if?...

Apples, I'd like to introduce you to Oranges.

*In case you didn't get it. You're making ridiculous comparisons.

My opinion as an expat, I’m very excited about OKC Streetcar and it’s return to downtown. I think this helps bring OKC to the 21 Century and the vision for transit (Bus, BRT, Streetcar, Commuter Rail) is wonderful and long overdue imo.

Here is is the concern I have and it has to do with the fares. I don’t understand why OKC is rushing the adoption of fares for the system. It would be much better to leave it free for a longer period of time to BUILD the transit mass. I’m not sure of how long this is, but it should allow normal OKC residents time to learn the system and adopt it as a mode of transportation. Some may argue keep it free until a year or so after the extensions into the neighborhoods and I honestly would agree with that.

Let me tell you all, Downtown Seattle used to have a ride-free zone where one could ride any bus in the downtown core but fares were collected on routes that went out upon exit. This was pre-2008 I believe and was a huge success for “reviving” downtown SEA as a destination. I know many of you probably can’t believe what I’m writing but it’s true. The ONLY reason the ride-free zone was abolished is because long-time department store Bon Marche was purchased my Macy’s who refused to contribute to the zone. Then Nordstrom and other players left - in part because the ride free zone had achieved its goal and in part because downtown SEA developed light rail, Commuter Rail and Commuter Bus under the Sound Transit umbrella. SEA had gained a multimidal transit system so the ride free zone was no longer necessary.

OKC, similarly, doesn’t yet have the critical mass for a fares on the streetcar to be a success. Yes it circulated but there isn’t yet any “reason”for a commuter to have to take it. There also isn’t a critical mass of retailers downtown YET so again there not much reason to have to pay to get around. Finally, given how anti transit many in OKC are I just think the honeymoon needs to be longer so that streetcar then transit becomes part of the community. Since the streetcar is downtown and I believe OKC should adopt a similar ride free zone downtown as Seattle did, there shouldn’t be fares until its extended or until CR and BRT is added.

Another example of if a free streetcar until recently? You guessed it - Portland Streetcar. Only until critical mass, pearl district high rises, AND MAX light rail nodes were built did they start charging. OKC please reconsider the fares and/or adopt a downtown ride free zone for all modes, build your transit and retail communities then start the fares for nodes outside the downtown critical mass.

If not mistaken the OK Turnpike actually makes money but then spends it on bonds for future expansion. Transit does break even.

Before we add more the citizens need to know how much it loses. I don’t expect it to make money right away but am looking at long term. We need to learn how much it costs to subsidize if it loses money especially before we expand and then we have more miles and more loss to cover with our taxes.

I think its a fair question

For the record Hong Kong makes money and I’ve riden it what a great shstem. Same in Japan and I’ve riden it too.

A couple of things - first, to the previous statement that the new system isn't designed for longer trips - why not? The systems in Denver, Dallas and SLC all convert to streetcars downtown then work quite well as faster trains outside downtown. Its not for long distance but there is no reason what we have couldn't go a few miles with cars attached. You mentioned how Hong Kongs system makes a profit, HK real estate is extremely expensive because of the lay of the land. Their system bought the land where stations would be built and has made very long tem lease agreements with developers to build large-scale multi-use developments at those stations. The developers have not only built stations for the city but provide lease payments to the system. l dont know about Japan. but like HKong and Japan, OKC is a whole different ballgame.

i wonder if there even is the remote conceptual proposal being discussed between city authorities, developers and business owners of converting oklahoma ave into one single, uninterrupted axis that runs from the i-235 exit at nw 13th and pierces right into the middle of the producers coop site. if such a continuous axis existed it would make total sense to connect deep deuce, bricktown and producers coop with a line of the streetcar running along oklahoma ave. i know u-haul is one of the major obstacles and the other is the parking lot just south of sw 2nd by the deep deuce dog park. but if those hurdles could be resolved (and i mean $$$) the streetcar would really start to transcend and change the urban landscape of downtown.

My opinion as an expat, I’m very excited about OKC Streetcar and it’s return to downtown. I think this helps bring OKC to the 21 Century and the vision for transit (Bus, BRT, Streetcar, Commuter Rail) is wonderful and long overdue imo.

Here is is the concern I have and it has to do with the fares. I don’t understand why OKC is rushing the adoption of fares for the system. It would be much better to leave it free for a longer period of time to BUILD the transit mass. I’m not sure of how long this is, but it should allow normal OKC residents time to learn the system and adopt it as a mode of transportation. Some may argue keep it free until a year or so after the extensions into the neighborhoods and I honestly would agree with that.

Let me tell you all, Downtown Seattle used to have a ride-free zone where one could ride any bus in the downtown core but fares were collected on routes that went out upon exit. This was pre-2008 I believe and was a huge success for “reviving” downtown SEA as a destination. I know many of you probably can’t believe what I’m writing but it’s true. The ONLY reason the ride-free zone was abolished is because long-time department store Bon Marche was purchased my Macy’s who refused to contribute to the zone. Then Nordstrom and other players left - in part because the ride free zone had achieved its goal and in part because downtown SEA developed light rail, Commuter Rail and Commuter Bus under the Sound Transit umbrella. SEA had gained a multimidal transit system so the ride free zone was no longer necessary.

OKC, similarly, doesn’t yet have the critical mass for a fares on the streetcar to be a success. Yes it circulated but there isn’t yet any “reason”for a commuter to have to take it. There also isn’t a critical mass of retailers downtown YET so again there not much reason to have to pay to get around. Finally, given how anti transit many in OKC are I just think the honeymoon needs to be longer so that streetcar then transit becomes part of the community. Since the streetcar is downtown and I believe OKC should adopt a similar ride free zone downtown as Seattle did, there shouldn’t be fares until its extended or until CR and BRT is added.

Another example of if a free streetcar until recently? You guessed it - Portland Streetcar. Only until critical mass, pearl district high rises, AND MAX light rail nodes were built did they start charging. OKC please reconsider the fares and/or adopt a downtown ride free zone for all modes, build your transit and retail communities then start the fares for nodes outside the downtown critical mass.

I agree with this 100%. The adoption of the streetcar since opening has been unbelievable. More than 55,000 riders in less than two weeks. Amazing. The problem with rushing the fares is that they are still literally working out kinks in the system so a lot of riders, even some of us here, didn't ride when the system was operating at its most efficient (although I really only had one slow ride).

A lot of doubters out there rode it because it was free, and suddenly seemed to "get it" after riding. There are many more of those out there.

The system should remain free throughout the month of January and possibly through the end of February to give the community an opportunity to use it freely and learn how it could be incorporated into their transit plans.

I suspect the opposition to this would come from a group of transit extremists who continue to parade the false choice argument of bus versus streetcar. Many of them are literally rooting for the streetcar to fail, for their egos? I'm not sure I will ever fully understand these CAVE people and what makes them tick. A lot of them oppose anything that may have had a Chamber connection or support from members of the business community. Many of them hate MAPS. So, they would be there to protest such a decision but their numbers are very small (but someone loud).

A couple of things - first, to the previous statement that the new system isn't designed for longer trips - why not? The systems in Denver, Dallas and SLC all convert to streetcars downtown then work quite well as faster trains outside downtown. Its not for long distance but there is no reason what we have couldn't go a few miles with cars attached. You mentioned how Hong Kongs system makes a profit, HK real estate is extremely expensive because of the lay of the land. Their system bought the land where stations would be built and has made very long tem lease agreements with developers to build large-scale multi-use developments at those stations. The developers have not only built stations for the city but provide lease payments to the system. l dont know about Japan. but like HKong and Japan, OKC is a whole different ballgame.

Point of Clarification - the bold above is incorrect.

Those systems are light rail and while they do mix with traffic in their respective downtowns - light rail vehicles are generally hold more capacity than Streetcar and there are many fewer stops. OKC's system is a pure Streetcar at the moment and it's design is a downtown circular - which usually is free - designed to be the last mile transit of a larger system of Commuter Rail - Commuter Bus - Bus Rapid Transit - local bus that does not yet exist but OKC does have planned.

There are Two well known systems that start as light rail then convert to Streetcar once the routes go downtown, they are Portland and Seattle. And in both cases the light rail continues in the downtown but there is a mode switch 'available' to Streetcar for the last mile. Portland runs MAX light rail in the downtown streets along a transit mall, Seattle runs Link light rail in the Downtown Transit Tunnel that was originally meant for BRT and convertible-Commuter Bus. Streetcars in both cases link up to the light rail lines but the Light Rail does not 'become' streetcar when it hits downtown.

I see OKC doing similar eventually where the Streetcar circulates downtown (and has tenticles into the inner city); the Streetcar connects to Commuter Rail at Santa Fe (from Edmond, Norman, Midwest City), to BRT from NWX/Piedmont and possibly from El Reno/Yukon and Mustang/WRWA, and Commuter Bus to metro suburbs and local bus at the OKC Transfer hub. Such a multi-modal system could then use a fare system quite well in that there is a critical mass of users on the system that are totally dependent upon the modes (ie, they didn't drive their car in).

Until then, I believe OKC Streetcar should be free or that OKC should implement a Downtown Ride Free Zone (to be fair) for bus and Streetcar where fares are only collected for rides out of downtown or before riders get to the downtown zone. The zone could continue even after the other transit modes come online but with critical transit massing I could agree with ending it at that time.

I have been using the streetcar to commute the past few weeks. If I leave my apartment at RS Kerr and Walker at 8:15 and walk to the transit center at 4th and Hudson I catch the streetcar as it arrives at 8:20. I ride it until I get to the Auto Alley stop at 8th and Broadway and walk the 2 blocks to 9th and Robinson. It takes almost exactly the same amount of time to walk the same distance but in this cold weather, I am more comfortable for the most part. I still get a few blocks of walking in for exercise. About noon today my husband and I left our apartment and caught the streetcar just as it arrived at the transit center stop. We intended to get off at Auto Alley but since my husband has not ridden the streetcar to the 10th and Robinson stop we decided to stay on as it is Saturday and don't have to be at work at a prescribed time. Problem was, the streetcar goes right by the Elk Valley Brewery, and we haven't been there yet... I guess that is why businesses want to be located on the streetcar line.

They only have 7 cars , now, from what l read. Unless there is a problem with the turn radius or tracks, l would think converting to a commuter street system capable of running the length of Classen or Shields for a few miles wouldn't be too hard - you would just need to use larger cars for those routes. Of course, suburban routes might require different tracks, such as RR rights-of-way, with larger capacity trains.

...If I leave my apartment at RS Kerr and Walker at 8:15 and walk to the transit center at 4th and Hudson I catch the streetcar as it arrives at 8:20...

But, there isn't a "8:20am" scheduled time of arrival. The streetcar simply arrives whenever it arrives. You could show up at 8:18am expecting an 8:20 streetcar, but it literally might not show up for 30 more minutes. Thus the need for live GPS.

But, there isn't a "8:20am" scheduled time of arrival. The streetcar simply arrives whenever it arrives. You could show up at 8:18am expecting an 8:20 streetcar, but it literally might not show up for 30 more minutes. Thus the need for live GPS.

It may have already been said but if Uber can do it, so should the streetcar system. Keep up the commentary and I'll bet they get it before too long

Had a good time riding it on Friday night. Only complaint is the times we're off significantly a few times. it would say 14 min, then drop to 4, then back up to 10, then it would show up. Not too annoying but we kept going in and out of Elk Valley brewery based on the ETA. Half our group missed it once :)

The system should remain free throughout the month of January and possibly through the end of February to give the community an opportunity to use it freely and learn how it could be incorporated into their transit plans.

If this is how you and others feel, I would recommend contacting the EMBARK Board Members, your city councilman, the new City Manager, and the Mayor.

The decisions about how long the streetcar would be free were made under the direction of former City Manager Jim Couch and bolstered by consultants' recommendations to the EMBARK board. None of this came through the process that I am part of with MAPS 3.

Kansas City's system, by contrast, is operated under a special taxation district not dissimilar to our Downtown OKC BID. They see the streetcar not just as a valuable piece of public transportation, but as an economic revenue generator for the small businesses along the line. EMBARK, by contrast, does not weigh economic revenue generation as a responsibility under their obligations to the city and the public.

In addition, Councilman Shadid and the ACLU made it clear that Title 6 litigation was probable if the streetcar was made free for riders and the EMBARK bus system was not. Arguably, we could turn our public transit image around if our limited system was entirely "made free" for a few years until the RTA comes into being. It would be quite a statement to the rest of the country and would eliminate some of the socio-economic barriers that our sprawling city presents to those who are forced to use our public transit system. So I see and value their arguments about equity. While I am sure some people would take issue with my assertions about Jim Couch, public transit was never a forefront agenda item for him. We could have done much more but what was accomplished under his tenure was incremental and via a grueling process begging for funds. Hopefully, that will change as 2018 really may have ushered in a new era.

Finally, while this equity argument is reasonable, charging for the streetcar does present a barrier and the sales tax revenue generated from increased business activity could help pay for other city services, including more transit investment. I hope the city is tracking increases in sales tax revenue in the impact zone.

i see it this way, where is the incremental sales tax dollars going to come from? Not downtown residents or office workers - since they ALREADY make up the base and this likely wont change either way with the streetcar. Nope, the incremental sales tax dollars will increase due to tourists and residents from outside of the core since downtown is an attraction in itself and has amenities and services not found elsewhere.

So why would we make it more difficult for them to get around after they drive here. Be honest, driving to downtown is the ONLY option at the moment. Until this changes and other modes come on where commuters are transit captive to downtown in mass to justify fare collections, the streetcar and downtown bus routes should be free or we should have a downtown ride free area. This would allow for the transit system as a whole to be used downtown which will increase demand for it outside of downtown as the transit base builds. Also we wouldn't be playing favorites with the streetcar since downtown transit would be free.

I am not an advocate of the entire bus system to be free since that exists and has a base. But downtown should be at least until other modes come on.

I will advocate this position to the mayor, ACOG, city govt leadership and EMBARK.

My plan to shakedown Bezos to contribute to funding transit so his workers can get to their jobs will help a lot.

Cars are not the only way to get downtown. I take Amtrak from Texas.

Apparently, the streetcars were just stuck in traffic and the times didn’t update on the screens, thus people were just standing in freezing temperatures based on inaccurate times. Lackmeyer was pretty mad and tweeted such.

Cars are not the only way to get downtown. I take Amtrak from Texas.

Apparently, the streetcars were just stuck in traffic and the Times didn’t update, thus people were just standing in freezing temperatures based on inaccurate times. Lackmeyer was pretty mad and tweeted such.

Steve has been a bit ridiculous lately on many fronts, but this takes the cake. Calling the streetcar a "complete joke" after just 2 weeks of service on what has to be the busiest night of the year in DTOKC is melodramatic.

He can’t have it both ways... take Maps Staff’s word that Signal Priority issues need to be studied further and then complain when the train predictor is completely screwed up because the intersections are clogged due to red lights functioning in a “dumb” manner.

On Facebook, someone is posting updates and service alerts concerning street car activity, at least they are trying to get the word out to the ridership.

Steve has been a bit ridiculous lately on many fronts, but this takes the cake. Calling the streetcar a "complete joke" after just 2 weeks of service on what has to be the busiest night of the year in DTOKC is melodramatic.

Rode for first time yesterday. The car was only 3 minutes late the first time we got on. Jumped off for a bite to eat and the second time it was right on time.
Thought it was very cool. Also, there are a few stretches where it moves pretty fast. When the street signals get coordinated, it'll be more than a tourist ride.
Lackmeyer just after attention. It's been years since i've viewed his chats -

Steve has been a bit ridiculous lately on many fronts, but this takes the cake. Calling the streetcar a "complete joke" after just 2 weeks of service on what has to be the busiest night of the year in DTOKC is melodramatic.

But his complaint actually is true many other times/days too. The posted estimated arrival times are a complete joke and currently only serve to aggravate riders. I'd rather not even seen an ETA if it's going to be consistently completely wrong.

It may have already been said but if Uber can do it, so should the streetcar system. Keep up the commentary and I'll bet they get it before too long

Even Uber and Lyft ETAs are often wrong. They self-update in real time. I'm sure it can be done better but the traffic signals and overabundance of traffic obviously contributed to last night's mess.

I didn't even go downtown last night but I imagine there were close to 100,000 people there or more, as is the norm on NYE and virtually no other night of the year.

I can't even think of a transit system of any kind that wouldn't be overloaded in such a situation. I've been in NYC when train after train was overcrowded and I had to wait on special occasions, such as parades, etc.

In those cases, even hailing a cab is near impossible and I've found myself walking several blocks to be able to get a cab.

It's the height of absurdity to ridicule the system based on the incredibly uncommon circumstances that occurred last night: major downtown traffic, Thunder game, et. al.

I can understand people's frustration looking at the projected arrival times and have them be grossly inaccurate, though, but as UP said, those times do not account for additional traffic and slow signals.

Regarding the free service, why not have "transit month" and allow free service for both buses and streetcars? How much revenue does the city even make off of bus fares?

Another option is to simply offer free bus service within certain zones during "transit month." So, even if one were riding from outside the fare-free zone, they would still benefit from rides originating in downtown for the return trip.

Just some ideas. Clearly I'm not a transit official.

Another option: just sell an annual corporate sponsorship for $1 million or so. Wouldn't that cover the "lost" fares? Coupled with in-car advertising and advertising at stops, the streetcar could probably generate $1.5 million to $2 million in annual advertising, including the primary sponsorship.

Drama with wait times aside, the streetcar has already exceeded ridership expectations. Now, with the decision to suddenly introduce fares, the city is effectively stepping on the momentum generated by this impressive rollout before it has even begun to hit its peak. My daughter and her friends have still not been downtown to ride the streetcar yet, and they are people who would be regular riders. I know that is purely anecdotal, but the number of people who have ridden so far is dwarfed by the numbers of people who plan to ride it.

It is ridiculously short sighted of the city to blunt this momentum so soon.

Density in the core will only grow, a lot of which is the direct result of the investment the citizens made in the streetcar. As density increases, so will ridership. The streetcar is a magnificent mode of development for small business to thrive within the downtown core, and hopefully the citizens see the value in expanding it.

Finally rode it around the entire route on a weekday when there was little/no traffic. Not a novel take by any means, and I'm probably beating a dead horse but man, the street lights REALLY need to be prioritized for the system. The entire route took 45 minutes when it really felt like it could have taken maybe 30 if the lights were all green. Also some minor issues still with the announcements ("Arriving at..." after we'd been sitting there, "Watch for the closing doors" with the doors shut, etc.) but overall pretty okay. I really hope the advocates are successful in their efforts to get that done. It would seem to be a grave mistake not to.

Did anyone else catch the heated Twitter exchange between Lackmeyer and Mayor Holt on NYE? Shots fired re the Streetcar delays on NYE post-Thunder game:

The problem with adding all the extra light prioritization cost - has anyone done a recent study of how it would effects areas within a block or so of the lights?

We all as citizens need to make sure before we spend more money that this is the right answer. I’ve not see that aspect addressed only statements saying to spend $450k on lights will fix the street car problem.

Questions to ask but not limited to:

1. How many minutes between the same stop? Not next stops but if in front of arena when one sc leaves how fast is the projected next car arriving at that same spot? Its important to know in relation to lights.

If its “every 7 minutes” sc stops is our target that means each and every traffic light would have to change its pattern evey 7 minutes to keep sc on time. That may be too often when looking at this all day/night long and reg car traffic might get delayed from stacking up on prior prioritization. Do cars stack up backwards and block businesses?

2. What is the traffic impact a block away? If you keep reducing a lights length then does traffic back up a block away and cause secondary problems? So now that traffic is at a standstill and gridlock happens

Just make sure if we spend “more” tax money we know all outcomes prior to spending. I not seen any studies on car traffic impacts of changing lights priority.

I do know OKC has for years tried to time lights to aide traffic and has failed badly. If one ever driven NW Exp you know what I mean. So now we need city to let lights give SC priority and I can imagine the side effects this will have on other traffic and roads.

So my taxpaying citzen input is find out the preferred stop cycle time for SCs and get a traffic light change impact study done.

You can’t just blanket give SC a blank check to fix their problem if it creates other problems not considered or resolved.

Thanks

I agree that lunch users are relevant... particularly from an economic Sales Taxe Revenue standpoint. With the improved and broader deployment of signal prioritization and our launch of a real-time GPS map, using it for such purposes will increase in viability.

And yes, in ten years the broader diversification and densification of the area means that operationally, it should benefit from these improved demographics downtown.

Real-time GPS map?!? Alright! Any ideas when this will launch?

Did anyone else catch the heated Twitter exchange between Lackmeyer and Mayor Holt on NYE? Shots fired re the Streetcar delays on NYE post-Thunder game:

Yes! My wife was not very happy with how much time I spent on Twitter that night and yesterday. Today it continues onward. On one hand, I am thrilled it happened because it will probably help us expedite getting the Signal Prioritization install solved.

On the other hand, it is irritating that Lackmeyer is insistent on spreading a false narrative that streetcar supporters are unhappy with his criticisms and diatribes. NOW is the time to communicate, communicate, communicate. Bring it on! If somethings not working right, let's point it out, turn the screw on city staff, and get it fixed.

OKC Guy- the traffic signals are "dumb". A few intersections have special turn lane cycles that activate at certain times of the day. That is the extent of it. Any sort of GPS or geo-netting technology would open a 20 - 30-second window of time for the streetcar. Perhaps even shorter. Any unintended effects would be severely limited and so momentary that they would be absorbed by all of the other dumb movements. In essence, its a wash with the particular OPTICOM technology proposed.

Real-time GPS map?!? Alright! Any ideas when this will launch?

I suspect after the Twitter blow up's, much sooner. There is more to that story as why it wasn't deployed beforehand. We had a third party entity affecting our deployment plans.