so much open parking, I'm not sure how they could tell the difference between your car and an employee of a store. another option would be to park at the data center across the street. they don't have permits as far as I can tell, because they have a publicly used auditorium, which I've attended events at.

Dreamers, fake numbers; no point debating him.

I have thought about doing this, but just not sure if the Outlets would take offense.

I've actually parked there before when meeting up with a friend that wanted to drive downtown, that way we didn't have to take 2 cars.

As a regular bus rider, I can tell you that, yes, sometimes buses are empty. But at any given time in any neighborhood you see a bunch of empty cars not being used. That doesn't mean they're not needed or relied upon. There peak times and non-peak times of use, just like with cars and traffic. Three million rides per year is not nothing. And there are plenty of folks, some on this board, that would ride if the system better suited their needs. Which it may, once the RTA is stood up, and the system is expanded and inter-connected with other modes, such as streetcar, more immediately, and commuter rail, later down the line.

I rode it for 6 months, and it would have been completely inadequate if I had kids or needed it for anything other than going to work and back.

Understood. Keep in mind that we currently spend very little on transit. But that will change with the RTA.

https://twitter.com/JeremyMoses85/status/1042277387571015680


Personally, I've used it to shop, go to my optometrist, and run some errands. The system, as minimal as it is, does go by lots of shopping options (Penn Square, Outlet Mall, Quail Springs).

The system does connect to many shopping options, and also provides access to many service centers and employer clusters.

The main problem is lack of penetration into neighborhoods, which is a consequence of being one of the largest (by area) cities in the United States, and frequency of service.

"you don't get it" refers to the fact that we keep sprawling out with such low density that it prohibits the ability to have good, reliable transit. We have a geometry problem and we seem to not be doing anything to stop it. We'll never have good public transit when we have such low density. So in a way, both sides are right. People who might want to ride (and also have the means to drive) don't use it because it's not convenient. Not because "they don't get it". On the other hand, the streetcar is a way to kind of reverse engineer density. By creating a fixed guideway, we are reinforcing density along the fixed route, which will hopefully spur outward. It'll be a long time before public transit becomes a convenient option for all people in this city but the streetcar is a way to make it the preferred mode at least in the core of the city.

As someone who works RIGHT BY Penn Square Mall, I see people getting on/off all the time on Penn, at any number of the numerous stops between 36th and 63rd. Now that I mention this, I'll see if I can keep a tab of how many I see getting off and on. Keep in mind I don't have eyes on the stops at all times or anything, just what I see when I can. I'd bet that there are easily 40 people per day that I see getting on and off. And that's just any old dart throw day.

If FY 2015 saw 3,085,663 passengers, that's ~8,450 passengers/day which is about 1.34% of the population.

Adding just the street-car, what would everybody consider to be a success in terms of an increase in percentage of ridership? .25%, .5%, 1%?

^ Since buses don't run on Sundays, that adds over 1.400 to the daily average, bringing it to 9,858 passengers/day in 2015.

Dreamers, fake numbers; no point debating him.

That was my judgement from the start based on the username.

The system does connect to many shopping options, and also provides access to many service centers and employer clusters.

The main problem is lack of penetration into neighborhoods, which is a consequence of being one of the largest (by area) cities in the United States, and frequency of service.

d-usa that was one of my fondest memories as a child. We road what was the First East 4th bus. It stopped at the NW corner of 6th & Stonewall inbound and the SE corner of 6th & Stonewall outbound in front of Butler's BBQ. All the buses home base in the 60s were on Main Street DT in front of HL Greens/Montgomery Ward/Rothchilds. Recall riding the bus DT (mother put cash/check in an envelope) and we came home with a receipt or you didn't come home. 'Your behind is mind' is what Aunt Lula use to say if you returned receipt-less. The Village raised all of the children.

Some of the buses go into the old neighborhoods, now for the most part stops are at or near major street intersections.

All streetcar track will be done in about a month. In addition to the ribbon cutting on the 14, that whole weekend will be a 3-day grand opening event of some kind. Also of note, the light going in at 11th will be a streetcar only light that will only turn red (for cars) when the streetcar needs to turn left across both directions of traffic to go down 11th.

This may be a dumb question but my understanding is the SC uses car lanes so if there are 3 cars ahead of SC in same lane does that mean those cars get priority so SC can get throuh intersection? Or is that section lane marked as SC only? And if cars can use that lane it seems more cars will move to SC lane to get through intersections? Maybe I have it all wrong which is likely.

Cars in front of streetcar would get to go

Yep that is definitely how it works. I keep hearing people argue the idea of "well it will be stuck behind cars just like all the traffic anyways" or the linked theory of "well it will only cause more traffic because people will want to get around it".

When in actuality, the streetcar lane will be the best chance to get through traffic due to prioritization. Especially after the first few months of operation and the route prioritization is adjusted for times accordingly.

^ Since buses don't run on Sundays, that adds over 1.400 to the daily average, bringing it to 9,858 passengers/day in 2015.

Ah, great point.

So that's ~9,850/day or 1.56% of the population.

So the question to everyone still remains: What is a reasonable bump in overall percentage ridership from the streetcar?

Don't know if this has been addressed (probably has), my only fear about the streetcar lane; someone's car stalls in the lane blocking traffic--it will throw the whole timing of the streetcar off. Surely there will be a tow truck positioned much like ambulances to deal with the problem.

Don't know if this has been addressed (probably has), my only fear about the streetcar lane; someone's car stalls in the lane blocking traffic--it will throw the whole timing of the streetcar off. Surely there will be a tow truck positioned much like ambulances to deal with the problem.

From what I"ve read, yes, there will be tow trucks on call to deal with stalled and illegally parked cars on the tracks.

Robinson is now open in both directions all the way through downtown.

d-usa that was one of my fondest memories as a child.When my family returned to OKC in 1946, when housing was almost impossible to find, we had to take a two-room "apartment" that was actually a converted garage near NW 13 and Robinson for the first six months. During that time, I rode the streetcar to school every morning, and back home every afternoon. When we bought a home near NW 20 and May at the end of that year, I rode the bus from NW 17 and May to Classen, instead. But to go downtown, I took a different bus at NW 23 and May.

Now, I've lived near NW 122 and Council for more than 30 years. It's more than a mile to the nearest supermarket, and almost three miles to pick up my prescriptions. The nearest bus stop, I think (I've never seen a sign for it) is at NW Highway and Council, again about three miles, and the schedule is so infrequent that it's unusable. Our city's attempt to outgrow Houston, back in the mid-Fifties, effectively destroyed any possibility of implementing usable public transportation for most residents.

Yet a hundred years ago, developers built such systems in order to make their efforts attractive to prospective purchasers. The original streetcar system was created by Classen to help him sell lots around what is now the Plaza district, Gatewood, Crestwood, and so on! By 1947, it had been replaced by bus routes for the most part, so the last car rolled down the track that year -- and folk began to drive everywhere, instead.

At least we're trying to rectify some of our mistakes. But the sprawl continues to spread. The more things change, the more they remain the same...

Jim, the city would like to hear from you.

https://okc.gov/Home/Components/News/News/2805/5123


Stories needed from people who remember original Oklahoma City streetcars

I copied #7521 to them. Didn't mention riding the Linwood line back in 1939-40, from NW 19 and Independence to downtown and the old Terminal Building! Or that my wife's grandfather was a track foreman for Oklahoma Railway Company back when the cars still ran...

Official Streetcar Ribbon Cutting is set for Dec. 14th at Leadership Square.

Here is the Facebook event about the ribbon cutting
https://www.facebook.com/events/966064113597215/?ti=as

They still have lots of openings for people to volunteer to help out on the opening weekend.

https://m.signupgenius.com/#!/showSignUp/70a0c44abae2ea4f94-volunteer

We are very close! There are three welds to complete on the D Line and a section of track to install between the switches on 5th street. The D Line track is being cleaned and the clearance cart pushed around. The first test train should be towed through October 8th with electric operation the following week.

Press release:

Vehicle Testing
Now that the D-Loop (Downtown Loop) has passed its track-to-earth test, vehicles will be tested starting next Monday, October 8 through Thursday, October 18. On October 8, the test will occur from 8 p.m. to 4 a.m. The vehicle will have police escorts during this time. Beginning on October 9, testing will occur between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m., similar to the B-Loop (Bricktown Loop) tests. The only other exception to this will be on October 15 when EMBARK will run a special test from 8 p.m. to 4 a.m. on NW 11th Street, during which they will need to close all of the intersections. There will be police stationed at the intersections, so if someone needs access, they will be working them through.

Signals and Stop Signs
On Friday, traffic signals on Broadway at NW 8th and NW 11th streets will be turned on. Electronic sign boards are already in place alerting drivers. Beginning as early as this week, drivers will also see stop sign changes along NW 11th Street as crews prepare for streetcar testing. The intersections at Broadway Place and Robinson and Harvey avenues will become north-south two-way stops.

OCS
The system’s overhead electric wires will be on – “hot” – during testing. Never touch the overhead wire, which is high voltage and dangerous.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DowJ3Y5U8AEZRwI.jpg:large

5th street rn

They announced some of the pricing today. $1 for a 3-hour pass, $3 for a day pass.

I hope they do something for a monthly pass. I can see myself being a pretty heavy user of this system as my office is about 2 blocks away from the closest stop and I sometimes go to the courthouse several times a day. $60/month for all those day passes seems kind of steep though. I'm sure a lot of potential users would be interested in monthly passes.

$1 for 3 hours is just enough to get people to pay $2 for Thunder games and many concerts - no doubt this was done on purpose.

I wonder if places all around downtown are going to begin charging for parking just because they know that the streetcar is going to induce demand for parking at all sorts of places.

I don't mind the pricing per se, but if parking rates start springing up all over downtown, this will incentivize Uber/Lyft just as much as usage of the streetcar: The reason being - I still can't get to the street car in any reasonable manner from other public transit.

I was in Minneapolis-St. Paul over the weekend, and rode their streetcars extensively. From appearances I believe we'll be using the same cars they have. The cars are comfortable for the short distance they'll be ridden in OKC, but there was a serious problem in MSP that I hope doesn't repeat itself in OKC.

The cars in MSP are de facto rolling homeless shelters, especially in cold weather, attracting aggressive panhandlers and those suffering from mental illness who ride for hours at a time. In four days we never saw a ticket taker or transit police officer, and every car without exception had sleeping homeless people and panhandlers. Apparently local shelters give train tickets to the homeless so they have a warm place to go, and so the trains are where they congregate. Police don't intervene because these people are ticketholders.

This is something that Embark should anticipate, especially since service begins in the cold month of December.

this happens with the bus already and was discussed at length during the streetcar fare focus groups.

Embark bus drivers are decent about handling situations. I've seen them remove people for cursing too much, being too lound, smelling too badly, and bothering other riders.

(no intention of being insensitive to the plights of the homeless, just reporting what I've personally witnessed)

this happens with the bus already and was discussed at length during the streetcar fare focus groups.

Embark bus drivers are decent about handling situations. I've seen them remove people for cursing too much, being too lound, smelling too badly, and bothering other riders.

(no intention of being insensitive to the plights of the homeless, just reporting what I've personally witnessed)

Good to hear, and I share your sentiments about the challenges facing the homeless and others on the margins of our society.

It's the nature of mass transit and comes with the territory.

You see it all the time in New York, LA, DC, Atlanta... People just get on with it unless someone is being belligerent, which almost never happens.

Media Advisory
10/12/2018

Last rail weld for MAPS 3 OKC Streetcar marks end of street construction

WHO
MAPS 3 Program Manager David Todd and others.

WHAT
Watch as crews finish the last bit of welding on a rail for the MAPS 3 Oklahoma City Streetcar. That signals the end of the rail construction part of the project and fewer street closures. Work will continue on overhead wires, testing, platforms and other projects. Streetcar service is expected to begin December 14

WHEN
10 a.m. Oct. 15

WHERE
NW 5th Street and Robinson.

Greater OKC Chamber releases streetcar investment impact study (http://okcretail.com/news/2018/10/09/news/greater-okc-chamber-releases-streetcar-investment-impact-study/)
Published Tuesday, October 9, 2018
by David McCollum


The Greater Oklahoma City Chamber today released an investment impact analysis on the MAPS3 downtown streetcar project.

“Historically, the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber has always taken the position that it is critical to measure the success of MAPS projects to better understand the impact to the community,” said Roy Williams, Chamber president & CEO. “There can be a number of ways to measure the success of a streetcar including usage and ridership, improved access to downtown amenities, quality of life and enhanced visitor perception of our community. It is also vital to understand the investment and economic development that takes place along the route. The Greater Oklahoma City Chamber partnered with RegionTrack, a local economic forecasting and analysis firm, to work with us to track that investment.”

Williams noted that the downtown streetcar is a key and unique project within MAPS3 for many reasons. The project is considered to be an important economic development tool for future investment in Downtown Oklahoma City; it is a significant project that sets the stage for future regional transit discussions throughout all of central Oklahoma; it improves the overall walkability of downtown and encourages linkages to a number of different districts; and, already there are discussions on how additional routes might enhance development opportunities in other parts of downtown and throughout the city.

Some of the key takeaways from the study include:

There has been more than $1.6 billion in public and private investment in the three block impact zone since the route was announced in 2011.
Private investment has exceeded $801 million.
Public investment totals more than $806 million.
Residential developments have been built with 1,860 new housing units.
A 16 percent increase in the number of jobs has taken place.
Seven new hotels with 833 rooms have been constructed within the investment area.
A net increase of more than 1.5 million square feet of office space has been recorded.

Greater OKC Chamber releases streetcar investment impact study (http://okcretail.com/news/2018/10/09/news/greater-okc-chamber-releases-streetcar-investment-impact-study/)
Published Tuesday, October 9, 2018
by David McCollum


The Greater Oklahoma City Chamber today released an investment impact analysis on the MAPS3 downtown streetcar project.

“Historically, the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber has always taken the position that it is critical to measure the success of MAPS projects to better understand the impact to the community,” said Roy Williams, Chamber president & CEO. “There can be a number of ways to measure the success of a streetcar including usage and ridership, improved access to downtown amenities, quality of life and enhanced visitor perception of our community. It is also vital to understand the investment and economic development that takes place along the route. The Greater Oklahoma City Chamber partnered with RegionTrack, a local economic forecasting and analysis firm, to work with us to track that investment.”

Williams noted that the downtown streetcar is a key and unique project within MAPS3 for many reasons. The project is considered to be an important economic development tool for future investment in Downtown Oklahoma City; it is a significant project that sets the stage for future regional transit discussions throughout all of central Oklahoma; it improves the overall walkability of downtown and encourages linkages to a number of different districts; and, already there are discussions on how additional routes might enhance development opportunities in other parts of downtown and throughout the city.

Some of the key takeaways from the study include:

There has been more than $1.6 billion in public and private investment in the three block impact zone since the route was announced in 2011.
Private investment has exceeded $801 million.
Public investment totals more than $806 million.
Residential developments have been built with 1,860 new housing units.
A 16 percent increase in the number of jobs has taken place.
Seven new hotels with 833 rooms have been constructed within the investment area.
A net increase of more than 1.5 million square feet of office space has been recorded.

A streetcar got stuck under the railroad viaduct last week. Good thing they do testing!
Is the power arm thing automated? Hopefully, it is because that seems like something an operator could forget. Seems pretty easy to have it self retract when it senses no power.

I don't think so because there are signs reminding drivers to lower them.

When you say stuck, do you mean it ran out of juice stuck or physically got stuck?

When you say stuck, do you mean it ran out of juice stuck or physically got stuck?

https://www.koco.com/article/streetcar-becomes-stuck-under-bridge-in-downtown-okc-officials-say/23941572

it was physically stuck because the pantograph had not been lowered while going under a bridge.

That is insane that the driver is responsible for lowering and raising that. Everything else about the streetcars seems very high-tech. Then you have this dumb task that requires a human to press a button?

As previously noted there are signs for the driver:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl9Q13wHyY_/


not that I don't think it should be automated

I wonder if this was a malfunction or operator error. There are signs, but we are talking about a mindless task that an operator will have to do over a 100 times a day.

Operator error. Our committee agrees and we actually paid for transponders to be added to all seven trains to automatically perform this function. We basically paid the vehicle builder to invent the device and add the programming. It is being installed this month.

As we feared, this couldn’t be installed fast enough. The new mechanism not only automically performs the function, it will not allow the train to move forward even if the interlock is overridden.

The reason that it wasn’t built in to begin with is because the transponder part had not been installed yet and the new program had not been uploaded as it had just been created. If feel for whoever was operating the train.

Was there any serious damage to the car that got stuck?

That is insane that the driver is responsible for lowering and raising that. Everything else about the streetcars seems very high-tech. Then you have this dumb task that requires a human to press a button?

The operators do a bunch of stuff manually. Throttle, brake, track switching, pantograph raise/lower. They even have power to change some of the streetlights if I'm not mistaken.

The operators do a bunch of stuff manually. Throttle, brake, track switching, pantograph raise/lower. They even have power to change some of the streetlights if I'm not mistaken.

Track switching sounds like another thing that can be automated with a transponder if they have the software developed for that.

Was there any serious damage to the car that got stuck?

I will find out on Wednesday.

In regards to automation, a fair bit of our system has semi-automated interlocks and functions. I actually have ridden in the cab of the streetcars during testing in the jump seat and observed operator functions.

Center to the console is an illuminated screen with the status of each system on the train clearly displayed and indicated in real time. The operator makes judgment calls about activating commands though. This is intentional as we have "B" and "D" lines. Any of the seven streetcars can traverse any part of the system. Interlocks become active for traffic lights and rail switches when any given train comes upon RFID communicators. A bank of normally dormant push buttons illuminates to life and the operator can trigger any number of functions through Train to Wayside Control.

I just posted a short video yesterday of this in progress here- https://www.facebook.com/okcstreetcarcommittee/posts/1222981714511404?notif_id=1540299781230039&notif_t=page_post_reaction

In regards to automation, a fair bit of our system has semi-automated interlocks and functions. I actually have ridden in the cab of the streetcars during testing in the jump seat and observed operator functions.

Center to the console is an illuminated screen with the status of each system on the train clearly displayed and indicated in real time. The operator makes judgment calls about activating commands though. This is intentional as we have "B" and "D" lines. Any of the seven streetcars can traverse any part of the system. Interlocks become active for traffic lights and rail switches when any given train comes upon RFID communicators. A bank of normally dormant push buttons illuminates to life and the operator can trigger any number of functions through Train to Wayside Control.

I just posted a short video yesterday of this in progress here- https://www.facebook.com/okcstreetcarcommittee/posts/1222981714511404?notif_id=1540299781230039¬if_t=pa ge_post_reaction

It would be absolutely fascinating to see how this works from inside the cab. Any chance we could see a "behind the scenes" video on some of the operator controls like that?

at least now we know why the traffic lights are horizontal downtown vs. the rest of the city.

at least now we know why the traffic lights are horizontal downtown vs. the rest of the city.
Why? Because I've been wondering this.

^^purely an aesthetic decision when they designed p180 afaik

^^purely an aesthetic decision when they designed p180 afaik
That had been my working assumption, but Hot Rod's post made me wonder if I had missed something.

Worth noting though that in areas where OCS wire was installed, traffic lights had to be moved out of the way.

Any chance we could see a "behind the scenes" video on some of the operator controls like that?

I will take one when I am back on there and not distracted by everything else going on.

I was in Minneapolis-St. Paul over the weekend, and rode their streetcars extensively. From appearances I believe we'll be using the same cars they have. The cars are comfortable for the short distance they'll be ridden in OKC, but there was a serious problem in MSP that I hope doesn't repeat itself in OKC.

The cars in MSP are de facto rolling homeless shelters, especially in cold weather, attracting aggressive panhandlers and those suffering from mental illness who ride for hours at a time. In four days we never saw a ticket taker or transit police officer, and every car without exception had sleeping homeless people and panhandlers. Apparently local shelters give train tickets to the homeless so they have a warm place to go, and so the trains are where they congregate. Police don't intervene because these people are ticketholders.

This is something that Embark should anticipate, especially since service begins in the cold month of December.

Happens everywhere there are public transit cars. When we were in southern California for the Rose Bowl last January, we rode the trains in from Ontario into Pasadena, and while there were no vagrants in our particular car, there were signs and notices that made it clear they were a routine occurrence. In fact, I think there was a radio report as we were riding into Pasadena about some conflict between a vagrant and a rider that actually ended with some violence or bloodshed. Never imagined *that*. Someone riding with us said the normal thing is someone just sleeps on the floor of the car, and the real, more routine issue is - wait for it - dealing with the smell of urine.

As I said, though, our rides to and from Pasadena back to Ontario were entirely uneventful in that vein. Just loaded up with sad Sooner fans.