Seeing all the poles going up and the overhead wires in Bricktown is really awesome! I can't believe it is happening!

One note, many areas along the streetcar route, have the pole base/platform sitting idle while it waits for the poles to be installed. There are several of these that are unmarked (either by cone or signage). Thus a dangerous tripping hazard is present directly on the sidewalk. The contractor really needs a safety person to just constantly be traveling the route making sure everything is up to code, would hate for any lawsuits against them or the city.

pics anyone for us expats :)

Can you imagine if downtown companies offered employees a choice - a parking spot or the amount the parking spot costs annually? You might find a lot more people choosing alternative forms of transportation and OKC wouldn’t need as many parking garages. One of the biggest problems in the U.S. is that so much of driving is subsidized that people don’t actually make economic choices around transportation.

I imagine the trolley will help downtown employers spread their parking options out a little more. It will no longer be necessary for employees to park in the garage across the street from their office building.

I imagine the trolley will help downtown employers spread their parking options out a little more. It will no longer be necessary for employees to park in the garage across the street from their office building.

Yeah, but will people and businesses actually do it? With the recent building of so many parking garages with so many subsidized corporate spots, it seems like it's an easy choice for a lot of employees to just to keep driving and parking right next to their workplace. That's why I'm worried about the streetcar being succsesful as real transportation option instead of a novelty. But, I hope you're correct and the streetcar leads to changes in thinking for companies.

Do any downtown companies offer their employees the choice of public transportation passes or money if they choose not to use a corporate parking spot? It would seem like making employees choose whether they want a $10,000 parking spot or keep the money and find a different way to work is a good way to encourage free market decision-making.

But, I hope you're correct and the streetcar leads to changes in thinking for companies.

Spoiler: It won't.

Do any downtown companies offer their employees the choice of public transportation passes or money if they choose not to use a corporate parking spot?.

Mine does!

Spoiler: It won't.

All evidence suggests that you're correct considering that the parking garage district has been built with knowledge of the coming streetcar.

All evidence suggests that you're correct considering that the parking garage district has been built with knowledge of the coming streetcar.

And it's a downtown circulator. Once extensions are built and running, you would see transit-to-work increase, but generally now, the streetcar won't be connecting too many resources where people would commute to work only via car. I would like to be wrong, however, considering some large, new(ish) apartment complexes are pretty close to the phase I line.

Can you imagine if downtown companies offered employees a choice - a parking spot or the amount the parking spot costs annually? You might find a lot more people choosing alternative forms of transportation and OKC wouldn’t need as many parking garages. One of the biggest problems in the U.S. is that so much of driving is subsidized that people don’t actually make economic choices around transportation.

I've heard of a company in Denver that did this. Either they pay for your parking spot, give you an EcoPass or give you the money they would pay for either the parking spot or EcoPass (I think they are actually pretty similarly priced). It was something like $100 a month, or $1200/year.

I've heard of a company in Denver that did this. Either they pay for your parking spot, give you an EcoPass or give you the money they would pay for either the parking spot or EcoPass (I think they are actually pretty similarly priced). It was something like $100 a month, or $1200/year.

Tons of employers in Chicago's Loop do this all the time, but I think it's weighted towards mass transit.

Tons of employers in Chicago's Loop do this all the time, but I think it's weighted towards mass transit.

Yep, my employer in downtown LA did the same.

As a result, lots of people took the subway and commuter train.

I think this is common in every major city. But cafeboeuf is correct. How many downtown employees will be able to get from home to office using the streetcar alone? I imagine it's a very small percentage. For the vast majority who can't, how do they get to the streetcar route?

I think this is common in every major city. But cafeboeuf is correct. How many downtown employees will be able to get from home to office using the streetcar alone? I imagine it's a very small percentage. For the vast majority who can't, how do they get to the streetcar route?

I agree, but this is also a chicken and egg scenario. If companies buy streetcar passes or offer money for parking spots then it might encourage employees (particularly new ones) to live near the line, which could boost core residential housing and development, and lead to more people using the line. Success and expansoin would then lead to more options for living along the line across the metro. It's also important that the line moves through populated and popular areas instead of the failed park-and-ride approach of Dallas' A-Train and Green Line.

OKC isn't going to ever be an urban mecca, but the hope is to grow walkable urban neighborhoods around the streetcar so people who choose to do so can live in OKC without cars being required for every activity.

...

OKC isn't going to ever be an urban mecca, but the hope is to grow walkable urban neighborhoods around the streetcar so people who choose to do so can live in OKC without cars being required for every activity.

Just like it was in the first half of the 20th century here, lol... But I do totally agree with the sentiment, it'll be a very good thing for OKC as long as the city doesn't set it up to fail with bad hours and fares.

Rendering of the Robinson stop in front of Leadership Square.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar011618.jpg

After looking at KC Streetcar stops, I'll take ours anyday.

Was it ever worked out such that Embark could sell advertisements on the kiosks?

Another thought that comes to mind, public Wi-Fi hotspot?

Was it ever worked out such that Embark could sell advertisements on the kiosks?

Another thought that comes to mind, public Wi-Fi hotspot?

We are still working on the advertising issues jointly with Downtown OKC trying to iron that out. Regarding WIFI, I believe that we will have public access on the trains just as the EMBARK buses do.

Public access on the trains sounds great, but I was talking about it being provided by the kiosks as well (or maybe just something else at each stop). Set it up right and you should be able to let customers join the Wi-Fi while waiting for the streetcar and then board and ride to their destination while continuing to use the same network.

Is there going to be an App associated with streetcar? It wasn't streetcar but in Vail they had an app that showed where every bus was and how long it was until they got there. It was really neat and used it all the time.

Yes. There is the Next Bus system that EMBARK uses. I believe that ties to an app and the streetcar is intended to be incorporated into that app.

Regarding WIFI at stops... I can understand the desire for it but there may be some risk that nearby tenants co-opt the signal as their internet source. Of course this could be mediated with a time-out feature that kicks people off every 20 minutes. I would hazard a guess from our earlier meetings that bringing Cox or AT&T to certain stops to provide the actual medium can be costly. This would vary from stop to stop. In Kansas City, they actually have a partner. I believe it is Verizon. In that case WIFI and connect-ability is a promotion by the utility piggybacking on the popularity of their streetcar system. Certainly I can imagine that AT&T, Cox, T-mobile, Sprint, or Cricket would be potential partners if they wanted positive public outreach on the system.

I will bring up your commentary at the next meeting. This may be applicable with the general advertising discussions being had.

Is there going to be an App associated with streetcar? It wasn't streetcar but in Vail they had an app that showed where every bus was and how long it was until they got there. It was really neat and used it all the time.

Just a dream, but wouldn't it be cool for each stop to have an electronic display of the grid that had the location of the streetcars all the time ?

http://www.railway-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2017/10/2l-image-185.jpg


Snow cured...
https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-1d8f4a265ce6f14cec56c316f2c8cba1.jpg
OKC's new streetcars (Cars No. 1 & 2,) both in the “redbud” color scheme, were photographed
as snow fell at Brookville Equipment Corp. in western Pennsylvania.

Car No. 1 is expected to arrive in about a month, said Doug Smith of Jacobs, the engineering consulting firm
that is managing development of the MAPS 3 streetcar.

http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/15444492_G.jpg
The nearly $5 million streetcar will be delivered to the recently completed streetcar maintenance facility at SW 7 Street & Hudson Avenue by Silk Road Transport.

Smith said Cars No. 2 thru 6 would arrive at roughly 3-week intervals through the spring.--Oklahoman, William Crum Published: January 17, 2018

Only thing, I wish the shelters in the CBD and near skyscrapers would be longer/larger than shown in the rendering as the crowds will be large with waits.

what is the difference between a modern street car and light rail metro transit?

Modern street cars tend to make more stops like the average city bus (maybe not ever block but maybe every few or so). Light rail is rapid transit over a longer distance.

Also light rail generally has protected ROW while streetcars generally share the road with automobiles. But not always, in either case.

what is the difference between a modern street car and light rail metro transit?

If you want a little light reading, check this out: http://www.apta.com/resources/reportsandpublications/Documents/APTA%20Light%20Rail-Streetcars-How%20They%20Differ-How%20They%20Overlap%20Oct%2014.pdf

Light Rail & Streetcar Systems: How They Differ; How They Overlap

We need to keep our investment vehicle (MAPS extension) to expand OKC's future & economy.

If you want to integrate the streetcar & the buses the challenge is the expensive rail lines become the greatest risk investment. You may want to look at streetcar expansion as far as the Penn Square Mall area (North), Crossroads Mall area (South), Outlet Mall area (West) & OKC Zoo area (East). From those focal points the buses could be used to splinter into those areas.

The key to an area like Crossroads Mall which needs to be revitalized, the streetcar line could be a crucial enhancement in redevelopment.

This (N-S-W-E) blueprint could be more attractive toward future commuter rail; it will be expensive, probably a better investment now than 20 years down the road.

Using our planned rail route from Santa Fe Intermodal Hub to:

Penn Square Mall estimate 6.5 miles
Crossroad Mall estimate 6.5 miles
Outlet Mall estimate 8 miles
OKC Zoo-Hall of Fame Stadium estimate 7 miles

Estimated rail line expansion 28 - 30 miles.

Does anyone know the cost of this expansion: $30 - $40 - $50 million; is the cost of rail $1 million a miles?

Also can streetcar & commuter cars use the same rail lines?

Our neighbors south (Dallas); what they are doing with commuter rail & the streetcar:


The 1.6-mile starter line, from downtown’s Union Station to Oak Cliff’s Methodist Medical Center, traverses the Trinity River corridor, which separates southern Dallas from the city’s largest employment centers. The project targeted commuters in mixed-use districts adjacent to downtown and helped connect them to transportation choices available in the city center.

Using hybrid technology, the streetcar returned an iconic mode of transit to the aging borough of Oak Cliff, southwest of downtown Dallas, which is a historically low-income area cut off from the city by the Trinity River and its sprawling floodplain. Since the streetcar’s implementation, as well as an adjacent shared-use pathway, Oak Cliff residents now have multiple transportation options.

Dallas Streetcar Connects Commuters to City Center: http://www.metro-magazine.com/rail/article/711949/dallas-streetcar-connects-commuters-to-city-center

We need to keep our investment vehicle (MAPS extension) to expand OKC's future & economy.

If you want to integrate the streetcar & the buses the challenge is the expensive rail lines become the greatest risk investment. You may want to look at streetcar expansion as far as the Penn Square Mall area (North), Crossroads Mall area (South), Outlet Mall area (West) & OKC Zoo area (East). From those focal points the buses could be used to splinter into those areas.

The key to an area like Crossroads Mall which needs to be revitalized, the streetcar line could be a crucial enhancement in redevelopment.

This (N-S-W-E) blueprint could be more attractive toward future commuter rail; it will be expensive, probably a better investment now than 20 years down the road.

Using our planned rail route from Santa Fe Intermodal Hub to:

Penn Square Mall estimate 6.5 miles
Crossroad Mall estimate 6.5 miles
Outlet Mall estimate 8 miles
OKC Zoo-Hall of Fame Stadium estimate 7 miles

Estimated rail line expansion 28 - 30 miles.

Does anyone know the cost of this expansion: $30 - $40 - $50 million; is the cost of rail $1 million a miles?

Also can streetcar & commuter cars use the same rail lines?

Why not work with the OK Railway Museum, and run a connection from Bricktown to the Museum, Zoo, Remington Park and Firefighters Museum. You would need a mile of new track to bypass the Union Pacific yard, and the rest of the right of way already exists. Maybe even get some historic trolley equipment like Dallas does on Mckinney Ave.

We need to keep our investment vehicle (MAPS extension) to expand OKC's future & economy.

If you want to integrate the streetcar & the buses the challenge is the expensive rail lines become the greatest risk investment. You may want to look at streetcar expansion as far as the Penn Square Mall area (North), Crossroads Mall area (South), Outlet Mall area (West) & OKC Zoo area (East). From those focal points the buses could be used to splinter into those areas.

The key to an area like Crossroads Mall which needs to be revitalized, the streetcar line could be a crucial enhancement in redevelopment.

This (N-S-W-E) blueprint could be more attractive toward future commuter rail; it will be expensive, probably a better investment now than 20 years down the road.

Using our planned rail route from Santa Fe Intermodal Hub to:

Penn Square Mall estimate 6.5 miles
Crossroad Mall estimate 6.5 miles
Outlet Mall estimate 8 miles
OKC Zoo-Hall of Fame Stadium estimate 7 miles

Estimated rail line expansion 28 - 30 miles.

Does anyone know the cost of this expansion: $30 - $40 - $50 million; is the cost of rail $1 million a miles?

Also can streetcar & commuter cars use the same rail lines?

Commuter rail, like Chicago's Metra or DFW's Trinity Railway Express, is heavy rail and generally cannot share the same track with light rail vehicles like streetcars, due to regulations by the Federal Railroad Administration. The only commuter rail corridor currently being planned by any local government or planning agency is the BNSF corridor from Edmond to Norman; this is being planned by the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments to be part of the forthcoming regional transit authority (assuming voters approve a tax increase to fund the RTA). The Crossroads Mall area has been proposed as a stop on that line. The RTA task force is also in the (very) early planning stages for an extension of the streetcar, following the historic Classen right of way, from Midtown, up through the Asian District, to Classen Curve, and then through the Chesapeake campus to the proposed commuter rail stop on 63rd and the BNSF tracks. [Source (http://www.acogok.org/commuter-corridors-regional-transit-rail-mpo/)] Again, this would be dependent upon a funding source being secured for the RTA. I understand the City has considered at least one light rail line intended to go up NW Expressway but I have no idea if any actual planning work has actually been done for that corridor.

A few times recently I've eaten lunch in midtown and gone for a walk afterwards, and along 11th street I have noticed the following:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14407
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14408

They're on the correct side of the road for it, so I have been assuming they are the stand-ups for the eventual power lines for the streetcar. If so, I have a couple questions. First, is that the final finish, or will it be cleaned up with concrete instead of the asphalt once the poles are installed? Second, several of the locations are more or less right in the middle of the sidewalk, leaving not a lot of room to get around. Will the sidewalk be expanded in those locations to provide more room for someone in, say, a wheelchair?

If these aren't for the streetcar, what are they for?

David,

Yes those are the posts for the overhead wire. I believe they used asphalt so they can dig it up easier when it comes time to actually running the wire into the foundation. I believe the sidewalk will be reverted to concrete after installation. In the meantime the sidewalk is open with asphalt.

Why not work with the OK Railway Museum, and run a connection from Bricktown to the Museum, Zoo, Remington Park and Firefighters Museum. You would need a mile of new track to bypass the Union Pacific yard, and the rest of the right of way already exists. Maybe even get some historic trolley equipment like Dallas does on Mckinney Ave.

http://www.acogok.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/streetcar.jpg http://www.brookvillecorp.com/Files/Admin/News%20Photos/Oklahoma-City---BROOKVILLE-Liberty-Streetcar-WebRes.jpg
This was the first project you would have thought that they would have accomplished; they talked about that 40 years ago using one of the old rail type trolleys on the Katy line.

Would love to see some kind of streetcar transit near the Hall of Fame Stadium & Zoo; that would bode well for OKC with TV coverage of the Womens' College World Series.

Is the angled parking along Broadway being taken out? Where the pavement as been cut out looks like there won't be enough room, maybe enough for parallel parking, however?

Is the angled parking along Broadway being taken out? Where the pavement as been cut out looks like there won't be enough room, maybe enough for parallel parking, however?

I'm pretty sure angled parking is being removed, replaced by parallel parking. That side of will now be 2 lanes instead of one.

^^^^^
This is correct.

Is the angled parking along Broadway being taken out? Where the pavement as been cut out looks like there won't be enough room, maybe enough for parallel parking, however?

Angled parking is not very compatible with streetcar due to sight. Much easier to see traffic and the streetcar with parallel.

Here are some articles about the streetcar; nothing has been set in stone:

https://s32.postimg.org/sel27e9hx/okcstreetcar.png
• The 4.9-mile D Line will traverse the central business district, linking Midtown and Bricktown.
• Dubbed the B Line, the 2-mile Bricktown loop will link Bricktown and the convention center district.



Plans are for the vast majority of service hours to the devoted to the D Line. Streetcars are to run from 6 a.m. to midnight Monday through Thursday and 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday.

On the B Line, regular service will be 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday.

Oklahoma City streetcar contract approved with minimal Sunday service: http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-streetcar-contract-approved-with-minimal-sunday-service/article/5551449http://


The MAPS3 streetcar project continues to make progress downtown.

If you drive between Midtown and Bricktown, you've surely noticed construction on the tracks.

By this time next year, the trolleys should be cruising down Broadway and Robinson.

Oklahoma City considers pedestrian safety ahead of streetcar installation: http://kfor.com/2017/12/14/okc-considers-pedestrian-safety-ahead-of-streetcar-installation/


By comparison, the consultants' report said Cincinnati charges $1 for a two-hour pass. Detroit charges $1.50 for a three-hour pass.

Riders in Portland get two-and-a-half hours for $2.

Single rides vary from $1 in Atlanta to $1.50 in Tucson, $2.25 in Seattle and $2.50 in Tampa.

$1 fare recommended for Oklahoma City streetcar: http://newsok.com/1-fare-recommended-for-oklahoma-city-streetcar/article/5576091


And if all goes as planned, passenger service will begin by late 2018. Two routes traveling 6.9 miles will link Bricktown, Automobile Alley, Midtown, the Central Business District and the area known as Core to Shore.

Oklahoma City's streetcar story is all about development: http://newsok.com/article/5480157


The 4.6-mile main line will serve the central business district, Midtown, Bricktown and Automobile Alley. By doubling up on some parts of the route, the main line and Bricktown loop will create 6.9 miles of what consultants call "service track."

David Todd, MAPS 3 program director, said the project is being coordinated to impede only in short segments and to limit obstruction to businesses.

Streetcar work begins in Bricktown: http://newsok.com/article/5534815

OKC Considers Driverless Streetcars: http://www.news9.com/story/36522608/okc-considers-driverless-streetcars

Hope this will answer most questions; OKC will have to tweak the system once it gets into operational mode. Plans to add a stoplight at N.W. 8th Street to slow traffic between N.W. 10th and N.W. 4th. The Bricktown Line will be the key to how they tweak and trouble shot the system because it will have the most challenges for pedestrian & vehicle traffic.

I assumed the "B" line was (at least in part) focused on convention center attendees, many of whom will be there during the week rather than the weekend. Is it possible they'll change the "B" schedule once the new convention center opens?

https://s32.postimg.org/sel27e9hx/okcstreetcar.png
• The 4.9-mile D Line will traverse the central business district, linking Midtown and Bricktown.
• Dubbed the B Line, the 2-mile Bricktown loop will link Bricktown and the convention center district.



Plans are for the vast majority of service hours to the devoted to the D Line. Streetcars are to run from 6 a.m. to midnight Monday through Thursday and 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday.

On the B Line, regular service will be 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. Friday and Saturday.

Does anyone want to address the B Line concern LocoAko addressed?

After thinking on it and discussing with others. I am still unhappy with the proposed fare schedule. I think there will be a majorly missed opportunity here for first year of implementation.

After thinking on it and discussing with others. I am still unhappy with the proposed fare schedule. I think there will be a majorly missed opportunity here for first year of implementation.

Which part? Just curious. I'd like to stress that our committee doesn't control this aspect of the project. If it were up top me, we would follow Kansas City's model and avoid fares entirely.

However, several of us do regularly talk to EMBARK about what they are proposing. I just told the director this past Tuesday that I think there should be an annual pass for employers to buy for their employees.

Until we resolve Sunday Service inequity between the streetcar and the bus system or incorporate the streetcar into the BID, that part of the schedule will be a mangled opportunity.

UP,

If you think it is a good idea, could we propose free fare service offered to convention visitors? I'm not sure how that would work but it would make sense to me for all the economic impact they can have to ensure they have nothing holding them back from using the streetcar.

Also, what are the chances that they do clear up the Sunday service issue prior to the rollout? In my opinion we need to find a solution to fund both bus and streetcar Sunday service as our city has reached a point where this is necessary imo.

^^^^^^^
There is a lot of behind-the-scenes effort regarding both Sunday service and free (possibly sponsored) fares, at the very least for an introductory period. BID is being discussed as a potential (partial...) funding method. The problem is that for either item the BID assessment would see a pretty dramatic uptick. In the case of certain property owners the increase would be pretty sizeable. Don’t expect the solution to come from within EMBARK though; they are pretty limited on options and are pretty dug in on these topics.

Which part? Just curious. I'd like to stress that our committee doesn't control this aspect of the project. If it were up top me, we would follow Kansas City's model and avoid fares entirely.

However, several of us do regularly talk to EMBARK about what they are proposing. I just told the director this past Tuesday that I think there should be an annual pass for employers to buy for their employees.

Until we resolve Sunday Service inequity between the streetcar and the bus system or incorporate the streetcar into the BID, that part of the schedule will be a mangled opportunity.

I agree with your post about an annual pass. Many employers downtown pay over $100 per month for parking per employee. This is part of the employee's compensation essentially, so an alternative that is cheaper for the employer would likely be sought after. Although, I guess that would mean the city is reducing its parking income if the employee parks in a city-owned garage.

I think we should have looked into moving the excess budget funds into some type of operation fund for the streetcar, I feel this would have still been in-line with the MAPS guidelines since the funds would be directly used on the streetcar operation. We could have gotten at least a full year of free ridership, which would have removed the barrier for entry entirely for people not wanting to waste money on trying it out. BEcause I truly think once people use the streetcar, they will see its value. But that initial step is going to be tough going with the proposed fare schedule.

To be frank, I think the proposed fares are too high. $1 for an hour is basically a worthless option. For someone who is in Bricktown and wants to go to Midtown, they will very likely be at their destination for more than one hour. Thus they will need to either buy a second $1 fare for the trip back or go with the $3 day pass. And remember you have to account for groupings of more than 1 person. I don't know about you, but when I am around Midtown and Bricktown, there is rarely individual people - but a lot of couples and groups of 3-5 people everywhere. The cost for all the people in a group of 5 to take the streetcar from Bricktown to Midtown is now $5 to and $5 back. You can take an Uber/Lyft from Bricktown to Midtown for $6.30 (minimum Uber fare since distance is so short). And this will be in a private car that picks you up at your exact location and drops you off at your exact destination with no time restraints on stopping along the route.

You need to activate the younger generations to use the streetcar, the same generations that have been the main customer base for rideshare companies.

You won't see MAPS funds used for operations because the ballot ordinance specified the money was to be spent on capital projects. It would be illegal to use those funds for operational expenses.

I agree with your post about an annual pass. Many employers downtown pay over $100 per month for parking per employee. This is part of the employee's compensation essentially, so an alternative that is cheaper for the employer would likely be sought after. Although, I guess that would mean the city is reducing its parking income if the employee parks in a city-owned garage.

I think we should have looked into moving the excess budget funds into some type of operation fund for the streetcar, I feel this would have still been in-line with the MAPS guidelines since the funds would be directly used on the streetcar operation. We could have gotten at least a full year of free ridership, which would have removed the barrier for entry entirely for people not wanting to waste money on trying it out. BEcause I truly think once people use the streetcar, they will see its value. But that initial step is going to be tough going with the proposed fare schedule.

To be frank, I think the proposed fares are too high. $1 for an hour is basically a worthless option. For someone who is in Bricktown and wants to go to Midtown, they will very likely be at their destination for more than one hour. Thus they will need to either buy a second $1 fare for the trip back or go with the $3 day pass. And remember you have to account for groupings of more than 1 person. I don't know about you, but when I am around Midtown and Bricktown, there is rarely individual people - but a lot of couples and groups of 3-5 people everywhere. The cost for all the people in a group of 5 to take the streetcar from Bricktown to Midtown is now $5 to and $5 back. You can take an Uber/Lyft from Bricktown to Midtown for $6.30 (minimum Uber fare since distance is so short). And this will be in a private car that picks you up at your exact location and drops you off at your exact destination with no time restraints on stopping along the route.

You need to activate the younger generations to use the streetcar, the same generations that have been the main customer base for rideshare companies.


Great comments. I don't disagree with any of them. Here are few sentiments that I have about all of this.

One is that EMBARK has proceeded with the typical City Manager approach to hard decisions... Hire a consultant and blame them if it doesn't work out. Kansas City's success is not a driving factor in this decision making.

Another huge part of this that you probably won't see in writing anywhere else is that this fare and operations process is being driven by ideological forces and/or the fear of staff members dealing with ideological forces.

1. The transit director is an awesome guy. He has very good intentions. But he was also head EMBARK's financial department before replacing Rick Cain. He fundamentally believes in equity-based value. That is that paying something, even if it is nominal, means that the service is valued by the participant. Essentially a low threshold barrier to "buy in".

2. Fiscal Hawks-Republican City Council Members- First and foremost being James Greiner of Ward 1 who believes that the free market should provide all public transit solutions. My guess from compiled offhand commentary by Greenwell is that he is lockstep with the Transit Director's point of view on these matters... also an accountant and expressing fiscal ideological faith in the "equity" argument.

I haven't watched enough City Council meetings to give you an official read on Stonecipher, Todd Stone, or Larry McAtee. My guess is that they trust the process and the consultant's/City Manager's recommendations.

3. Ed Shadid- Buses should have the same level of support as the streetcar. Expect a Title 9 fight and a lawsuit if the two modes aren't supported on an equal footing.

I'm not necessarily trying to throw anyone under the bus here... pardon the pun. My personal beliefs as the result of observations of other cities are contrary this ideology. I think this system should be free to use by the public and visitors. I think that the sheer economic return in tax revenue from enabling businesses better access and the more efficient use of land increasing density would far outweigh any nominal return we might see through fare collection. Plus there are major health, environmental, and social benefits to making the system as accessible as possible.

Ed and I aren't on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to bus transit either.

I think you have an exceptional group of people building this thing. They are extremely plugged into what other cities are doing and we are collectively trying to build it right. Unfortunately, the project is being handed off to a board who doesn't fully understand what they're getting. EMBARK also is not responsible for maximizing these broader socio-economic benefits that affect other aspects of our city and the potential revenues it could generate. Its main aim is to minimize the financial liability to its annual bottom line.

It fundamentally comes down to the City Council to fund streetcar operations properly short of the BID covering the cost. But the current council probably doesn't understand what the broader benefits are and the sheer potential financial and social return that come forthwith.

And keep in mind that all of this is enforced by essentially an honor system. It is easy to conclude that having fares simply creates a barrier that suppresses the ability of the system to perform. Even the rosiest projections for fare collection revenues are suspect.

Operating the streetcar system right requires thinking differently and that requires leadership. We don't possess that yet.- Jeff Bezdek

^^^ Great post (even if it is a bit sad to read due to the way some people think), thanks, good to know the behind-the-scenes information!

Thanks Travellers! Now is the time to be candid about this issue. None of this is set in stone yet. With education and public support perhaps the operational situation can change and the streetcar's impact more broadly felt.

On a cheerier note-

The time has come! Oklahoma City’s first modern streetcar is scheduled to leave Brookville, PA bound for Oklahoma City this Friday.

We anticipate it will be delivered to SW 7 and Hudson on Tuesday, February 13 (http://www.okctalk.com/x-apple-data-detectors://1)th (http://www.okctalk.com/x-apple-data-detectors://1) . Unfortunately, we are unable to give you an exact delivery time at this point, but we will provide updates to you on Tuesday morning (http://www.okctalk.com/x-apple-data-detectors://2).

You are welcome to come out and watch the streetcar transition from the back of the truck to the rail. Parking is limited and is available on a first-come, first-served basis at SW 7 and Hudson.

A very good post, it seems like OKC has finally learned how to build things, but we still don't do a good enough job of maintaining and managing public properties..

The transit director is an awesome guy. He has very good intentions. But he was also head EMBARK's financial department before replacing Rick Cain. He fundamentally believes in equity-based value. That is that paying something, even if it is nominal, means that the service is valued by the participant. Essentially a low threshold barrier to "buy in".

This is a critical perspective, and I think this is so wrong. People ought to value something they've never used? Here's this great tool we spent a ton of money on, and even though no one targeted to use this phase of the streetcar currently uses public transit, we'll just expect them to naturally change their behavior and start spending money to do so, in addition to the car they already own, because, hey, they ought to value this?

Embracing public transit requires a big time behavioral change in OKC. We need to do everything possible to remove barriers to entry.

That mentality seems just so irresponsibly out of touch.

This is a critical perspective, and I think this is so wrong. People ought to value something they've never used? Here's this great tool we spent a ton of money on, and even though no one targeted to use this phase of the streetcar currently uses public transit, we'll just expect them to naturally change their behavior and start spending money to do so, in addition to the car they already own, because, hey, they ought to value this?

Embracing public transit requires a big time behavioral change in OKC. We need to do everything possible to remove barriers to entry.

That mentality seems just so irresponsibly out of touch.

There are many things that we value that we never use because we know someone who benefits from it beside ourselves--think about it.

Just remember that the streetcar system which includes the routes will stimulate development along those lines; we've seen this in other cities like Portland, Seattle, Salt Lake City & Kansas City.

You don't want totally free ridership because our streetcar is designed as a shuttle that should benefit patrons in the core & tourists, more of a novelty than public transit on the 6.9 mile route that serves Downtown, Midtown & Bricktown. Hopefully, we'll extend this to the OU Health Science Center district.

You make it free, then you will have to address a previous concern with the Embark buses--where sometimes homeless stay on the buses nearly all day. You wouldn't want this with the streetcar especially since it will cater to tourists as well as a shuttle for patrons in those 3 areas.

Expand the streetcar to the OU Health Sciences Center & the Meridian Hotel corridor should be a priority . There are a lot of conventions in that area (OUHSC) now with the 194 room Embassy Suites.

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-157c996429413e4a2c49791e996b8348.jpg

The Adventure District (Zoo & Hall of Fame Stadium) has the old KATY railroad line; could we get something running in that area--something vintage.

our streetcar is designed as a shuttle that should benefit tourists, more of a novelty than public transit

This is my biggest fear with the streetcar and I hope that this is not how it is perceived by the "powers that be" and most local residents. If residents don't regularly use the streetcar in substantial numbers (which will hopefully happen more and more as housing, office, and retail development continues to grow along the streetcar's routes) I'm not sure how you can consider it a success or justify expansion. Though I suppose there is a chicken or the egg issue with encouraging local resident ridership and expansion into neighboring areas.

As someone who doesn't work downtown or in Midtown, this is also one of my biggest issues with the streetcar not operating on Sundays. I plan to make a point to use the streetcar as often as possible when not at work - but not being able to do so on Sundays severely limits by ability to ride the streetcar by not operating on one of the two days I'm most likely to be downtown - and I suspect there are quite a few others in this situation.

The Adventure District (Zoo & Hall of Fame Stadium) has the old KATY railroad line; could we get something running in that area--something vintage.

If there is a way to transfer between the Streetcar and the KATY line at the Santa Fe Depot it would make a great beginning for a true inter-modal hub.

This is my biggest fear with the streetcar and I hope that this is not how it is perceived by the "powers that be" and most local residents.

Unfortunately, this is the perspective I hear espoused most often from friends of mine in OKC.

Unfortunately, this is the perspective I hear espoused most often from friends of mine in OKC.

I think a lot of people think it has to be either/or, and fail to realize that it can be both.

Expand the streetcar to the OU Health Sciences Center & the Meridian Hotel corridor should be a priority . There are a lot of conventions in that area (OUHSC) now with the 194 room Embassy Suites.

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-157c996429413e4a2c49791e996b8348.jpg

The Adventure District (Zoo & Hall of Fame Stadium) has the old KATY railroad line; could we get something running in that area--something vintage.

That plus a loop to film row, up classen, and then into midtown to meet up with the other track. You could later expand all the way up Classen to Whole Foods.