An easy way to understand the impact for visitors is think about what you do when you book a trip for an event or something. Chances are you are trying to find a hotel closest to your destination or place of event. Obviously with downtown being OKC's biggest entertainment area, most people will want to be staying in and around the core. Hotels can advertise their proximity to the streetcar as it is a huge selling point. Being able to not have to worry about renting cars, taking cabs, and find/pay parking is a major factor I always take into account for trips.

Side note of a pet peeve... There are hotels way out east on Reno near Eastern that use "Bricktown" in their names. I have ran into multiple people while out and about and they tell me they booked the hotel thinking they were going to be right in the thick of things, only to find out they are surrounded by dirty truckstops and now have to take a cab to get anywhere close to Bricktown. Hopefully these hotels die with the surge in competition in the actual core.

...
Side note of a pet peeve... There are hotels way out east on Reno near Eastern that use "Bricktown" in their names. I have ran into multiple people while out and about and they tell me they booked the hotel thinking they were going to be right in the thick of things, only to find out they are surrounded by dirty truckstops and now have to take a cab to get anywhere close to Bricktown. Hopefully these hotels die with the surge in competition in the actual core.

Yeah, those names are misleading, but isn't some of the onus on the person booking the trip to maybe do a bit more research to make sure that they're booking one in the right location and not just relying on the name? Someone I know booked a hotel here "close" to where our event was (Britton between May and Penn), but the hotel was at Classen/NW Expwy, she said "it" (not sure what "it" is - google, GPS, hotel's website, ...) said the hotel was 8 minutes away from where the event was. May be 8 minutes away, but Classen/NW Expwy isn't close to Britton/May or Penn by any stretch of the imagination. I always go to google maps to check and make sure that the place I'm staying at is actually close to where I want to be.

Don't mean to derail the thread, but had to add an alternative viewpoint, sorry, back to the streetcar (which I fully support and will probably use as much as I can since I *loved* using public transit in Chicago and miss it badly here).

Every area along the streetcar route will be impacted in a positive way. You'll see new developments created in Bricktown, Business District, Automobile Alley & Midtown.

People are ready to park & ride. OKC is willing & ready to make this transition from driving around inside the core.

Yeah, those names are misleading, but isn't some of the onus on the person booking the trip to maybe do a bit more research to make sure that they're booking one in the right location and not just relying on the name? Someone I know booked a hotel here "close" to where our event was (Britton between May and Penn), but the hotel was at Classen/NW Expwy, she said "it" (not sure what "it" is - google, GPS, hotel's website, ...) said the hotel was 8 minutes away from where the event was. May be 8 minutes away, but Classen/NW Expwy isn't close to Britton/May or Penn by any stretch of the imagination. I always go to google maps to check and make sure that the place I'm staying at is actually close to where I want to be.

Don't mean to derail the thread, but had to add an alternative viewpoint, sorry, back to the streetcar (which I fully support and will probably use as much as I can since I *loved* using public transit in Chicago and miss it badly here).

If she is using google maps, she has to click on the picture of the little guy for walking distance. :)

Even when driving, that's about a 14 minute drive under ideal conditions.

Just did some counting of my own.

The streetcar line will have available to it upon opening the following:

Immediate access to the line (On the same street/block as the streetcar line)
2,930 Hotel Rooms
1,175 Residential Units

One block distance to the nearest block that has the streetcar. In essence 2 block*(excluding the units already counted above)
727 Hotel Rooms
1,212 Residential Units

For a grand total of the above

6,044 units
(3657 Hotel + 2387 Residential).

One observation is that most of Deep Deuce is not included. Obviously a 1-block distance is very amateur, those who ride transit will walk several blocks to take advantage of it. This was more or less what is directly on the line.


4,105 Units directly on the line is a great starting point; add in the 2,000 more units that are just 1 block off the line for the 6,000 and you are in some very good territory for initial ridership. You also have it running through the premier entertainment district of the state as well as the future Convention Center, the Memorial, the Chesapeake Arena, MBG and the MAPS 3 Central Park and you are really expanding the variety of ridership and trip purposes this will be useful for. I really think it will be a slam dunk.


*For example, The Maywood in DD is included because it is on the block of NE4 and Oklahoma which is adjacent to the block of NW 4 and Broadway.

Great work, Urban Pioneer. Your effort is appreciated. Just to be clear on my end, my concerns about the success of the line do not mean I am excited about it for OKC. I hope for nothing more than this line to gain great ridership, stimulate core development, and lead to expansion of the system thooughout the metro. Keep up the great work.

Thanks! I really appreciate all of the supportive comments from the OKC TALK community. It means a great deal to me. Many of you are friends, many I have never met. Feel free to reach out anytime if you think we are doing something well on the streetcar or could be doing something better. I don't know how many of you have attended a subcommittee meeting, but we actually do conduct oversight. Much to the staffers and consultant's chagrin, our meetings are rigorous. It may have taken nine years to get here, but there is a reason that the bid came in low. This system has been extremely thoughtfully designed due to the work of the committee and the engineers.

Thanks! I really appreciate all of the supportive comments from the OKC TALK community. It means a great deal to me. Many of you are friends, many I have never met. Feel free to reach out anytime if you think we are doing something well on the streetcar or could be doing something better. I don't know how many of you have attended a subcommittee meeting, but we actually do conduct oversight. Much to the staffers and consultant's chagrin, our meetings are rigorous. It may have taken nine years to get here, but there is a reason that the bid came in low. This system has been extremely thoughtfully designed due to the work of the committee and the engineers.

I have followed your posts for a long time and thank you for your work getting this project off the ground. Have you ever thought about consulting for other cities? Tulsa could use someone like yourself to help put together a streetcar plan there.

I really do commend you Urban Pioneer (and Betts) for your outstanding work on the streetcar project. From this citizen, it's very much appreciated.

How about I'll enjoy and go where I want, and you can stop making assumptions on where you think I should spend my time.

The arrogance and onesidedness on this forum is getting out of hand. I've been a good member for awhile now, making contributions where I can, sharing insight and personal opinions, and a different perspective at times. I visit a few other forums on the internet, none with as much cool local info as this, but yet I find so many of the people on here blatantly rude, and only interest is to attempt to belittle and prove their superiority. It's extremely disheartening because in all reality I have a greater chance of running into most of you folks, than anyone else I associate with on another forum, yet the amount of disrespect I see (and I'm not really even talking towards my opinions) is uncalled for.

With that being said I'm not trying to pick on you directly soonerguru, although I don't appreciate your disrespect, it's more of a rant to numerous members on this board. Clearly my opinions and perspective are not welcomed by some so I'd recommend to those to navigate to my profile and add me on your block list so you can skip my comments.

No disrespect intended at all. I just find it odd that you have a problem with the inner-most part of our city having more of an urban feel, which you admittedly don't like. You prefer the suburban nature of the city. I was pushing back on the opinion that every square inch of our city has to be suburban in nature.

I don't think guru's post was disrespectful. I think there are just different viewpoints and sometimes the most respectful thing someone can say really is just "well, good thing you have your area that fits your preferences, and we have our area to fulfill our preferences." I think generally anyone who gets dramatic on here is taking it too seriously and can't stand on their own ideas and facts alone.

OKC's burbs are still disproportionately developed and supported more than the urbs. This GO Bond is about to prove that when it ends up being 80% suburban.

This GO Bond is about to prove that when it ends up being 80% suburban.

Huh? Facts?

Huh? Facts?

Since when does Spartan need facts?

We have a streetcar project oversight committee meeting scheduled for today at 3:30 in the EMBARK meeting room next to Clarity Coffee on Main Street. The public is always welcome to attend.

I was walking south of the Skydance Bridge yesterday evening around 5:30 pm and there was a ton of activity by Herzog crews along SW 10th. It looked like they were practicing working with the rails or doing some sort of staging. I tried to take some pics but the sun was setting and the light wasn't great. Anyway, I was surprised (like someone else said upthread) at how long the rail segments are. It will be fun to watch them being transported into place around downtown.

We have a streetcar project oversight committee meeting scheduled for today at 3:30 in the EMBARK meeting room next to Clarity Coffee on Main Street. The public is always welcome to attend.

Are the meetings regularly held on a weekday afternoon? That rules out people who have normal daytime jobs from being able to attend.

Are the meetings regularly held on a weekday afternoon? That rules out people who have normal daytime jobs from being able to attend.

Sorry. Best we can do and manage to get the people together. Guess you will have to take a vacation day or tell your boss you have a civic engagement. Keep in mind, we are volunteers. The people who make the mechanics work are 9 - 5 city employees and engineers. If it were up to me, these meetings would be after hours too. I am self-employed and it is time away from the business. If it were at night, it is time away from my family. So I lose no matter what. I would have skipped today actually but we had $5 million worth of stuff to vote on and needed a quorum.

Sorry. Best we can do and manage to get the people together. Guess you will have to take a vacation day or tell your boss you have a civic engagement. Keep in mind, we are volunteers. The people who make the mechanics work are 9 - 5 city employees and engineers. If it were up to me, these meetings would be after hours too. I am self-employed and it is time away from the business. If it were at night, it is time away from my family. So I lose no matter what. I would have skipped today actually but we had $5 million worth of stuff to vote on and needed a quorum.
I understand completely. It is just so frustrating that basically all meetings like this for your committee and most others are just not held at times that are convenient for the general public and that greatly limits the kind of input that can be given.

I understand completely. It is just so frustrating that basically all meetings like this for your committee and most others are just not held at times that are convenient for the general public and that greatly limits the kind of input that can be given.

That is a big reason that I engage the public so directly on here and on Facebook. There are at least four OKC Talk members that are actually on the committee of nine. Our outreach through all interactive mechanisms is unparalleled.

We voted to buy an additional streetcar vehicle at a reduced cost. OKC will be getting a streetcar #7. Also, spare parts, tow trucks, specialized machinery, and redundancy systems are now being ordered.

We voted to buy an additional streetcar vehicle at a reduced cost. OKC will be getting a streetcar #7.

Sweet. Will that lead to more cars in service (7-10 minute service) or just more back-up cars available?

Sweet. Will that lead to more cars in service (7-10 minute service) or just more back-up cars available?

More back-up and the flexibility to handle bigger events. So potentially more units in service if the demand necessitates it.

Another cool thing is that we are going to develop a spare parts consortium with Dallas and potentially Detroit or Milwaukee to enable quicker accessibility to parts on demand without having to wait for them to be manufactured.

Is this what the excess funds, as a result of the bids coming in lower, are being used for?

Is this what the excess funds, as a result of the bids coming in lower, are being used for?

Yes. We evaluated all areas and determined that making the First Phase of the system as resilient, reliable, and relevant as possible were the best use of funds. I am personally asking for funds to study with more detail how we might expand to go to other areas. A cost needs to be determined for extensions so that future leaders can be fully informed as to what their options are.

We also have the overall MAPS 4 contingency fund for which our committee has not submitted any requests for consideration. We also still have a built in program contingency for our specific project that remains on par with maintaining unforeseen issues.

Thank you for the information. Are these evaluations a presentation or anything for the public to view? Or was this simply the committee and city coming to this conclusion?

Reason I ask is because I am curious what the alternatives were. I know I keep being annoying about it, but I was really hoping to get those funds aimed more toward the individual stops and technology at the shelter level.

Thanks again, and I too, wish the meetings were in the evenings.

We asked the consultants and engineers to evaluate what their priorities would be to make the system more reliable, resilient, and prepare us for the future.

Thank you for the information. Are these evaluations a presentation or anything for the public to view? Or was this simply the committee and city coming to this conclusion?

Reason I ask is because I am curious what the alternatives were. I know I keep being annoying about it, but I was really hoping to get those funds aimed more toward the individual stops and technology at the shelter level.

Thanks again, and I too, wish the meetings were in the evenings.

I think the decision to purchase another vehicle was a wise move. System reliability will be the ultimate factor for success of the system. The Denver A-Line to the airport has a completely tarnished record because it is so unreliable. The stops are modern, the train cars are clean, and it is fast when it works. When it works is a toss of the coin and thus many are hesitant to put their vacation plans at the mercy of it and instead Uber, yellow cab, or drive and park to the airport still. Many employees don't risk their job on the (un)reliability of the train and instead choose to drive or car-pool with other coworkers.

It would be a mistake for OKC to not put operational reliability at the absolute top of the priorities (aside from safety). We can always improve stops and rider technology, but we need to make sure the system is on time and people can rely on it. It's not the same as the Denver airport line, but the premise is the same: if the system is to work, people need to be able to depend on it so much as to not use their car. If people don't trust it, they won't use it. Establishing that trust is crucial in the first few months of operation as that is when people will be exposed to it for the first time. The Denver A-Line burned me once (train broke down and I was 2 hours late for work and cost me an attendance point as well as loss of income for time missed) and I refuse to even try it again, it's not worth the risk to my career. OKC must take this seriously, and so far it seems they are.

As much as I like the idea of a street car, why are people opposed to a bus (even a nice one that looks like a street car) that can adapt to new routes? I see Dallas offers free downtown bus service - perhaps even on Sundays!
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/02-27-17-dart-d-link-deep-ellum-downtown/

OKC has had free downtown bus service for almost two decades!!! How many of you have ridden it? Whenever I ride it I find it usually sparsely used...

(started out as the MAPS I trolleys and became Route 50)

As much as I like the idea of a street car, why are people opposed to a bus (even a nice one that looks like a street car) that can adapt to new routes? I see Dallas offers free downtown bus service - perhaps even on Sundays!
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/02-27-17-dart-d-link-deep-ellum-downtown/

You said the reason in your post. Many people, especially transit novices, visitors, and tourists do not trust buses because they are not fixed in the ground. If I am traveling somewhere and I see they have a train system, I will purposely book a hotel or AirBNB on or within walking distance to the line. I know it's going to be there when I arrive. A bus route might change by the time I make my vacation. Fixed rails instill more confidence in a rider than buses which can be moved route to route with nearly no notice. Also, if I see the rail I know the train will come. if I am at a bus stop how do I know? Maybe they are taking a detour today bypassing my stop, and since I am from out of town I am not in the loop on the changes. There's plenty of examples as to why fixed rails are the most reliable form of transit.

OKC has had free downtown bus service for almost two decades!!! How many of you have ridden it? Whenever I ride it I find it usually sparsely used...

Me!

But it isn't user friendly. It's very difficult to figure out how to get to a destination. If you don't have a cell phone with google maps it would be nearly impossible to know exactly how to get somewhere and when the buses will arrive.

Me!

But it isn't user friendly. It's very difficult to figure out how to get to a destination. If you don't have a cell phone with google maps it would be nearly impossible to know exactly how to get somewhere and when the buses will arrive.

Even then it's not an easy task. If there's an accident or a traffic slowdown or anything the buses get off schedule fairly easily, and the "real-time tracking" system that EMBARK provides is honestly not as mobile optimized (or as reliable) as it should be. Routes and times change too easily, as well, as catch said. Sometimes even when you're in the loop they take you by surprise!

And then of course there is the fact that many regular bus users don't have smartphones in the first place. Can't tell you how many times I've been asked to or have offered to let a fellow passenger use my phone to try to help figure out where they're going. Buses are the easiest transit for cities and other governments to set up but the hardest for people to use.

Even then it's not an easy task. If there's an accident or a traffic slowdown or anything the buses get off schedule fairly easily, and the "real-time tracking" system that EMBARK provides is honestly not as mobile optimized (or as reliable) as it should be. Routes and times change too easily, as well, as catch said. Sometimes even when you're in the loop they take you by surprise!

And then of course there is the fact that many regular bus users don't have smartphones in the first place. Can't tell you how many times I've been asked to or have offered to let a fellow passenger use my phone to try to help figure out where they're going. Buses are the easiest transit for cities and other governments to set up but the hardest for people to use.

Here anyway. I have lived in cities abroad that are very sprawling (not as bad as okc but sprawling enough to compare) and those cities have every stop listed for every bus that stops at a particular stop. It tells you what stops are transfer stops. It was very easy and reliable.

(gosh I need to stop saying stop in this post about busses and stops.)

Walking around Bricktown yesterday, it is weird to see all the construction for the streetcar, a lot of blocked off lanes and equipment - but no easy-to-see actual work? I suppose they are still staging all the gear for the tear up.

Traffic for the regular season NBA game was pretty absurd with all the construction on EKG and the streetcar in BT... Playoff and warmer seasons bringing more people out is going to really create chaos. Just have to remind everyone complaining that it will be worth it in the long haul!

Is this project entirely funded though the MAPS Funds or are there other sources involved like TIF money or donations? Omaha is trying to get a streetcar up and running by 2021 and just recently announced the potential funding sources and I am trying to compare and contrast the systems in a few other cities building new systems like OKC, KC and Milwaukee and would love any info about funding that could be explained.

Thanks!

100% maps

for the rail/cars, etc. Santa Fe station had some kind of matching grant I believe.

for the rail/cars, etc. Santa Fe station had some kind of matching grant I believe.


That is correct. The $120 million budget for the streetcar is being entirely paid for with MAPS 3 funds voted into existence by the voters.

An additional $10 million was used to successfully apply for a Federal Matching grant. ODOT, ACOG, and further city monies contributed another $4million. The Federal Government gave us a matching $14 million equaling a $28 million total project above and beyond the streetcar system.

Thanks! OKC's ability to get a city wide sales tax increase for these things is pretty unique it seems.

Utility relocation has started on 10th street.

Something interesting mentioned by the Oklahoman's William Crum.
http://m.newsok.com/article/5539854


Approved plans to have Jacobs Engineering Group study the feasibility of converting the streetcars to autonomous vehicles at some point in the future, eliminating the need for drivers to guide the vehicles along the route. The study is part of a $420,100 amendment to the contract with Jacobs for streetcar engineering and design services.

This is explained and discussed at 2:03

https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLwFAYTiZB_PKFgP_Ou7yBYztMDafA6wko&v=KOF0bPVCrNw

Streetcar committee question...so, once up and running, has their been discussion on the single fare price, will they have kiosks all over the place ? will the streetcar have a bikerack too?

also, i saw one can purchase the embark 30 Day Unlimited Pass for $50 currently, so will the streetcar and embark busses be integrated, or are they going to operate as separate entities? if integrated, i imagine they will want to rise some price on the overall system pass, but at least the streetcar route is going to go N on Hudson, then turn east on NW 4th, I still haven't see stop points along the route, I imagine it will make some effort to have a connecting stop with the bus transit center.

Streetcar committee question...so, once up and running, has their been discussion on the single fare price, will they have kiosks all over the place ? will the streetcar have a bikerack too?

also, i saw one can purchase the embark 30 Day Unlimited Pass for $50 currently, so will the streetcar and embark busses be integrated, or are they going to operate as separate entities? if integrated, i imagine they will want to rise some price on the overall system pass, but at least the streetcar route is going to go N on Hudson, then turn east on NW 4th, I still haven't see stop points along the route, I imagine it will make some effort to have a connecting stop with the bus transit center.


Some of these are Embark questions and not necessarily committee questions. I'll do the best I can, though. We haven't discussed pricing at length but I recall it being in concert with typical bus pricing. Kiosks and phone app. Cross platform passes for easy transfers. Monthly/weekly passes. Some of the stops are designed to be dual purpose stops for both buses and streetcars. This enables easy transfers at multiple points in the system. Bikes can be wheeled directly onto the streetcar in the central bay. Pet's will be allowed.

You said the reason in your post. Many people, especially transit novices, visitors, and tourists do not trust buses because they are not fixed in the ground. If I am traveling somewhere and I see they have a train system, I will purposely book a hotel or AirBNB on or within walking distance to the line. I know it's going to be there when I arrive. A bus route might change by the time I make my vacation. Fixed rails instill more confidence in a rider than buses which can be moved route to route with nearly no notice. Also, if I see the rail I know the train will come. if I am at a bus stop how do I know? Maybe they are taking a detour today bypassing my stop, and since I am from out of town I am not in the loop on the changes. There's plenty of examples as to why fixed rails are the most reliable form of transit.

Good point!

You never know what to expect if you plan any trips based on bus transportation within a given city. The rail lines aren't likely to change.

also, i saw one can purchase the embark 30 Day Unlimited Pass for $50 currently, so will the streetcar and embark busses be integrated, or are they going to operate as separate entities? if integrated, i imagine they will want to rise some price on the overall system pass, but at least the streetcar route is going to go N on Hudson, then turn east on NW 4th, I still haven't see stop points along the route, I imagine it will make some effort to have a connecting stop with the bus transit center.

I say this with no inside info but the current price structure for EMBARK passes was set sometime before 2013 when gas was around $3/gal or more. So I could see an increase from including the streetcar but given low fuel prices I bet the increase will be smaller than you might think, or may be workable in the current fare structure.

https://twitter.com/_Bricktown/status/840245871002435589



First section of @OKCStreetcar track on public route is moving into place. Track will now be lifted, straightened, leveled, concrete poured.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6knKBzV4AAZ2o7.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6knKB3VoAAVtIS.jpg

Best I can tell this is on Joe Carter outside IHOP.

^^ Correct ...In the Southbound lane.

When I went by yesterday they told me they were laying rail on Tuesday. Guess they're ahead of schedule. That's not a bad thing!

There is an electronic sign by St Anthony's that says Streetcar work will start on Monday in this area. Anybody have any idea how traffic will be impacted?

There is an electronic sign by St Anthony's that says Streetcar work will start on Monday in this area. Anybody have any idea how traffic will be impacted?

Traffic in that has always been a concern even with the improvements and the 2 circles. You can count on it becoming a bottleneck--rush hour traffic could lead to a tieup.


http://aicontent.agentinsight.net/f/content/251/92f316800ae54a56bae79a2a166a882d/600x450.jpg
The two circles in the area including the Midtown roundabout will get tested.

There is an electronic sign by St Anthony's that says Streetcar work will start on Monday in this area. Anybody have any idea how traffic will be impacted?

• Cimarron will begin the utility work on Dewey between NW 11th and NW 10th
• Dewey will be northbound traffic only for six weeks

Thanks, that shouldn't affect me yet.

I use the traffic circles everyday and in my observation the biggest issue is still people not knowing how to use them.

I use the traffic circles everyday and in my observation the biggest issue is still people not knowing how to use them.

i just don't understand the confusion??

People stop at the yield sign when there's no one in the circle like it's a four-way stop because someone got to their yield sign first. NO. If you're not going to hit someone by entering the circle, GO. Keep it flowing people!

And those are the same people who merge @ 45mph on the highways. Sometimes you can only deal with stupidity.

I talked to some people this past weekend in Bricktown, they were complaining about parking and I explained to them all the construction right now is for the streetcar which will impact parking significantly. They were from Yukon and had no idea the streetcar was even a thing. This is going to be big!

There are some good articles on rail transit in cities in Politico today. One deals with the success of the system being built in The Minneapolis / St. Paul area and another on streetcars and the mixed success of some poorly planned systems.

Traffic in that has always been a concern even with the improvements and the 2 circles. You can count on it becoming a bottleneck--rush hour traffic could lead to a tieup.


http://aicontent.agentinsight.net/f/content/251/92f316800ae54a56bae79a2a166a882d/600x450.jpg
The two circles in the area including the Midtown roundabout will get tested.

Lol. How many cars are waiting in this "bottleneck," like 8? What would you call a traffic light with 11 waiting cars, endemic gridlock?

Lol. How many cars are waiting in this "bottleneck," like 8? What would you call a traffic light with 11 waiting cars, endemic gridlock?

Like shawnw mentioned:
People stop at the yield sign when there's no one in the circle like it's a four-way stop because someone got to their yield sign first. NO. If you're not going to hit someone by entering the circle, GO. Keep it flowing people!

This is a concern for the area because drivers 'freak out' when they enter the circle; not really knowing what to do or how to maintain consistent traffic flow.